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[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Absence of evidence.

Nothing like using the same logic to justify UFO's and Intelligent Design. :lol

 

[RiskyChris]

Nothing like using the same logic to justify UFO's and Intelligent Design. :lol

Nothing like not using logic, apparently.

Fact is America does bad things, they're worthy of criticism. Why do I seemingly only focus on the negatives? Well that's because the bad things it does has bad consequences worth condemning.

NASA reaches out to Muslims I'm pretty pro-American there.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

nvm

 

[hxa155]

Actually, I believe it's just a Middle-Eastern version of a barbers shop.

Not funny and offensive. Fuck off, pos.

 

[Technosteve]

he was just spy checking

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Nothing like not using logic, apparently.

Fact is America does bad things, they're worthy of criticism. Why do I seemingly only focus on the negatives? Well that's because the bad things it does has bad consequences worth condemning.

NASA reaches out to Muslims I'm pretty pro-American there.

Good, I am happy to see you have finally offered some evidence. Thank you.

 

[RiskyChris]

Good, I am happy to see you have finally offered some evidence. Thank you.

Burden of proof was on you, buddy.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Burden of proof was on you, buddy.

Not when you're putting out an affirmative defense in the state of New York. In that case the burden is on the Defendant.

 

[mre]

Says the guys whose posting history not related to Western porn or Western women on the beach says otherwise.

You are still attempting to avoid examining the point.

Wait-- I was kidding about this.

 

[RiskyChris]

nvm

ilu <3

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Wait-- I was kidding about this.

Hey, I was trying to give him some good points.

 

[ItAintEasyBeinCheesy]

Actually, I believe it's just a Middle-Eastern version of a barbers shop.

Just take a bit off the top.

Meh, did what needed to be done under the circumstances. Ghurkas are some of the most bad ass mutha's out there as well so they should keep on keepin on.

Not funny and offensive. Fuck off, pos.

:lol :lol

 

[furrygiblets]

 

[EmCeeGramr]

he was just spy checking

fuck you guys








kukri doesn't behead, only the demoman's melee weapons do that

 

[DarkAngelYuna]

Beheading is a gross insult to Muslims? Fucking bullshit its their country who ae obsessed with beheading innocent people in the first place. Behead the entire damn country.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Beheading is a gross insult to Muslims? Fucking bullshit its their country who ae obsessed with beheading innocent people in the first place. Behead the entire damn country.

Wow.

I don't even know where to start here.

 

[theignoramus]

Beheading is a gross insult to Muslims? Fucking bullshit its their country who ae obsessed with beheading innocent people in the first place. Behead the entire damn country.

Or get the fuck out, like the Russians in '89. That's an option too.

 

[ItAintEasyBeinCheesy]

Or get the fuck out, like the Russians in '89. That's an option too.

Then the Taliban would be back in control and a lot more people would end up being beheaded, executed for being "Spy's, witches, prostitutes etc"

 

[RiskyChris]

Beheading is a gross insult to Muslims? Fucking bullshit its their country who ae obsessed with beheading innocent people in the first place. Behead the entire damn country.

Finally a post I 100% agree with. Thank you for speaking up.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Now now, lets not lose our heads over this.

 

[theignoramus]

Then the Taliban would be back in control and a lot more people would end up being beheaded for being "Spy's, witches, prostitutes etc"

The Karzai government is no beacon of liberal values either.

 

[ItAintEasyBeinCheesy]

The Karzai government is no beacon of liberal values either.

Oh, they behead people for supposed crimes?

 

[Dresden]

Oh, they behead people for supposed crimes?

No, they just look the other way when it happens.

 

[theignoramus]

Oh, they behead people for supposed crimes?

No, it only has ties to the warlords that ripped the country to shreds in the 90s. Those guys are no better than the Taliban. they're just a different breed of monster.

 

[astroturfing]

i don't care who you are or what kind of situation you're in, but cutting off a dead guy's head with a knife makes you one fucked up person. how can you stay conscious slicing through someone's throat and shit? and keep your sanity afterwards..?

this world sucks.

 

[Atrus]

I do dare say that the real offense would be that the man dessicated a body that could have been harvested for organs and other matter that could have gone to more useful human beings, like the people they terrorize or send to hospitals with their IEDs.

Veneration of a decomposing meat sack has this nonsensical quality that I disagree with.

The person that was that Talib ceased to exist on death. I would disagree if the conduct was exhibitionist in nature or murderous (in the event it was a live beheading), but you can see where this Gurkha soldier thought it was the most pragmatic way to bring back evidence of a kill.

I myself don't see the point of bringing back evidence since they'll just point to another guy and call him the leader, much like those Cybermen from Dr. Who. Taliban Commander or Taliban Footsoldier, it doesn't matter. So long as they intend on propagating violence and their abberrant ideologies, all that matters is that they're pacified.

It would be silly to lose a capable fighter over a minor issue. The Gurkha should make things more interesting by filing a human rights complaint against the undue persecution of his traditional and cultural methods of combat. After all... we wouldn't want him to be forced into fighting in the imperialist Western method of combat.

 

[methos75]

i don't care who you are or what kind of situation you're in, but cutting off a dead guy's head with a knife makes you one fucked up person. how can you stay conscious slicing through someone's throat and shit? and keep your sanity afterwards..?

this world sucks.

Different culture, not all are like ours and see something immoral and wrong in it, its how some cultures can allow for this, stoning, chopping hands off, etc and think nothing of it. How at least he was dead, the Arabic seem to have no qualms doing so when someone is alive and begging for their lives. I know some will say something about that and its not PC, but it is fact and needs to be kept in the back of your head anytime someone of that culture is upset about this or other acts we do like when civilians die from collateral damage. This is a culture that believes that no one is innocent and that when you war against someone, Children, Women, the sick, etc are all fair targets and deserve no mercy and where they indiscriminately kill women and children everyday in both Iraq and Afghanistan. I really care little for their cultural sensitivities when its one of theirs being beheaded, when they would do it to us as quickly as they can and while we were still able to feel the sting of the blade as it bit through our necks.

 

[Lamel]

You know what I will take the soldier's side on this. He was in the heat of the battle and under such pressure he had to accomplish his mission, you can't honestly blame the man. Although what he did was a little rash, I think it is perfectly OK.

 

[mokeyjoe]

I don't think this is as much about 'cultural sensitivities' as such as it is about the propaganda war which the Taliban is currently winning. The coalition can kill as many enemy soldiers as they like, but if the Afghan people turn against them they've lost the war.

Things like this may be minor on their own, but everything can be taken by the Taliban and used to portray the coalition forces as invaders. It's the little things adding up that will eventually turn the tide in the Taliban's favour.

 

[Zeke]

sounds HQ's fault guy shouldn't face any jail nor should he face court martial.

 

[astroturfing]

Different culture, not all are like ours and see something immoral and wrong in it, its how some cultures can allow for this, stoning, chopping hands off, etc and think nothing of it. How at least he was dead, the Arabic seem to have no qualms doing so when someone is alive and begging for their lives. I know some will say something about that and its not PC, but it is fact and needs to be kept in the back of your head anytime someone of that culture is upset about this or other acts we do like when civilians die from collateral damage. This is a culture that believes that no one is innocent and that when you war against someone, Children, Women, the sick, etc are all fair targets and deserve no mercy and where they indiscriminately kill women and children everyday in both Iraq and Afghanistan. I really care little for their cultural sensitivities when its one of theirs being beheaded, when they would do it to us as quickly as they can and while we were still able to feel the sting of the blade as it bit through our necks.

wow, nice generalization there. holy shit man. how many Arabs are in the world again, and how many of them do beheadings? and besides Afghans aren't Arabs... well there are Arab fighters there but yeah whatever.

seriously tthough how often do those happen, someone getting beheaded or stoned etc? i would say it's really rare, and i'm sure most people in any Middle-Eastern country would object to such punishment. ask an average man on the streets of Jeddah in Saudi-Arabia if he thinks beheading is normal, and i would fucking bet on it that he says no...

it's so easy to demonize millions or even a billion people. i will support you in demonizing those particular people who do the rare stonings and beheadings though, they and their immediate supporters deserve nothing but our disgust.

USA and Europe have killed millions of women, children and elderly people in all their wars too btw. "Arabs" have a lot of catching up to do if they want to beat us civilized westerners in the race to kill the most innocent.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

seriously tthough how often do those happen, someone getting beheaded or stoned etc? i would say it's really rare, and i'm sure most people in any Middle-Eastern country would object to such punishment. ask an average man on the streets of Jeddah in Saudi-Arabia if he thinks beheading is normal, and i would fucking bet on it that he says no...
.

Actually that's how people are executed in Saudis Arabia and in public and popular by all accounts. That said some of those executed in SA most likely deserve it and aren't gays or political prisoners, so I'm not trying to demonize anyone.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Damn, brutal, I guess I can sort of understand, the guy was dead and the soldier did it in the heat of conflict for evidence.

Still with the way all this sounds with the bickering, somehow, it would seem almost hilariously grim in a way it would have been better PR if the body was blown up in a bombing raid.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Damn, brutal, I guess I can sort of understand, the guy was dead and the soldier did it in the heat of conflict for evidence.

Still with the way all this sounds with the bickering, somehow, it would seem almost hilariously grim in a way it would have been better PR if the body was blown up in a bombing raid.

Well if it left some big enough chunks, yeah, ironically it would have been better. :lol

 

[sturmdogg]

should have just brought a camera or something, or taken a piece of hair if they wanted dna. less hassle (in terms of being seen as a politically provocative move) and safer given that i can't imagine hacking a head off with a knife is something you can do quickly, something probably somewhat necessary when in a dangerous warzone.

Don't they need a DNA sample to compare the hair with, to prove that he was the same guy?

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Don't they need a DNA sample to compare the hair with, to prove that he was the same guy?

As I mentioned earlier, the US has apparently been successful in getting samples from relatives of certain terrorist and Taliban Commanders.

Random, but I just felt the need to post this photo I found on google image.

 

[Empty]

Don't they need a DNA sample to compare the hair with, to prove that he was the same guy?

yep, but in the story in the OP they clearly reveal that they have this sample.

Army sources said that the soldier, who is in his early 20s, initially told investigators that he unsheathed his kukri – the symbolic weapon of the Gurkhas – after running out of ammunition.

But later the Taliban fighter was mutilated so his identity could be verified through DNA tests.

 

[Xeke]

Then the Taliban would be back in control and a lot more people would end up being beheaded, executed for being "Spy's, witches, prostitutes etc"

Not our problem.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Quote from a recent story about the murder of UK soldiers (and a Gurkha) in their base by an Afghan/Taliban traitor. It's the article the above picture came from.

egend has it that once drawn a kukri cannot be sheathed until it has drawn blood - and giving it marked out Major Bowman as a "blood brother".

He was pictured with his colleagues from 1st Royal Gurkha Rifles brandishing their weapons.

Also in the picture was Lieutenant Neal Turkington, 26. He died with Corporal Arjun Purja Pun, 33, when the rogue Afghan National Army soldier fired a rocket-propelled grenade into an ops room they were in. Four more were injured before the killer, 23-year-old Talib Hussein, escaped.

A manhunt led by the SAS was tracking him down last night.

Major Bowman and Lt Turkington were held in incredibly high regard by the Gurkhas they served with in Nahr-e-Saraj District, Helmand. A military source: "Major Bowman was a hugely respected officer. Once earned, a Gurkha's loyalty and trust is never lost, and Josh had that in spades.

"They had fought side-by-side in a deadly warzone. They were more than brothers. The Gurkhas are one of the hardiest fighting forces in the world - but Tuesday's tragedy has really rocked them.

"Heaven help Talib Hussein if a Gurkha ever catches up with him."

SAS legend Andy McNab, said: "With these lads it's all blood and honour. The kukri is the ultimate honour for a soldier fighting with them."

Meanwhile, tributes were last night being paid to "brilliant" Royal Marine Matthew Harrison - killed the day before his 24th birthday. Matthew, of 40 Commando, died in Camp Bastion after being wounded in a firefight on patrol in the Sangin district of Helmand on Tuesday.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

i don't think i used many fancy words there at all. i ran it through the microsoft office flesch–kincaid readability test and it said it was grade 12 level, which from wikipedia i gather is that of the average 17-18 year old. given that this forum is open to thirteen year olds, i guess it might help to not use fancy words like 'endanger'.

on the issue i didn't claim that afganistan doesn't have many many problems, it clearly does, my argument was merely that exacerbating them should be avoided and that it makes sense for them to try and avoid doing that given their aims there. i don't think it's that huge a deal in the grand scheme of the conflict, but things stack up and it helps to try and eliminate as many potential new problems as possible, especially the easy ones like this one. i'm not sure how your narrative account of life in afganistan really argues against that point.

I'm wondering how much of this is exaggerated by the tabloid trying to sell a story. Reminds me of that piece a while back where iraqi's were supposedly horrified and up in arms because Black american troops were walking their streets.

 

[Prine]

Beheading is a gross insult to Muslims? Fucking bullshit its their country who ae obsessed with beheading innocent people in the first place. Behead the entire damn country.

You Taliban? Same level of intelligence it seems

 

[astroturfing]

Actually that's how people are executed in Saudis Arabia and in public and popular by all accounts. That said some of those executed in SA most likely deserve it and aren't gays or political prisoners, so I'm not trying to demonize anyone.

i would love to see some statistics. because somehow i doubt public beheadings and stonings are popular in Saudi Arabia... sure there might be individual cases from recent years, mostly from rural areas. but a popular practice everywhere in the country, even in major cities? i don't believe that for a second.

show me some hard facts. because that's a pretty harsh claim. i think you've been mislead to believe something that isn't true.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

i would love to see some statistics. because somehow i doubt public beheadings and stonings are popular in Saudi Arabia... sure there might be individual cases from recent years, mostly from rural areas. but a popular practice everywhere in the country, even in major cities? i don't believe that for a second.

show me some hard facts. because that's a pretty harsh claim. i think you've been mislead to believe something that isn't true.

Yeah, I don't think so.


http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/behead.html#Saudi

Saudi Arabia - beheading in the 21st century.
Saudi Arabia uses public beheading as the punishment for murder, rape, drug trafficking, sodomy, armed robbery, apostasy and certain other offences. 2007 was the record year for executions with 153 men and three women executed. Forty five men and two women were beheaded in 2002, a further 52 men and 1 woman in 2003 and 35 men and a woman in 2004. Executions rose in 2005 with 88 men and 2 women being beheaded and then reduced to 35 men and four women in 2006. 102 people were executed in Saudi Arabia during 2008 but it is thought that two of these were by shooting in Asir Province. 67 people were beheaded in 2009, including two women.
The condemned of both sexes are typically given tranquillisers and then taken by police van to a public square or a car park after midday prayers. Their eyes are covered and they are blindfolded. The police clear the square of traffic and a sheet of plastic sheet about 16 feet square is laid out on the ground.
Dressed in either a white robe or their own clothes, barefoot, with shackled feet and hands cuffed behind their back, the prisoner is led by a police officer to the centre of the sheet where they are made to kneel facing Mecca. An Interior Ministry official reads out the prisoner's name and crime to the crowd.
Saudi Arabia uses a traditional Arab scimitar which is 1100-1200 mm long. The executioner is handed the sword by a policeman and raises the gleaming scimitar, often swinging it two or three times in the air to warm up his arm muscles, before approaching the prisoner from behind and jabbing him in the back with the tip of the blade, causing the person to raise their head. (see photo) Then with a single swing of the sword the prisoner is decapitated.
Normally it takes just one swing of the sword to sever the head, often sending it flying some two or three feet. Paramedics bring the head to a doctor, who uses a gloved hand to stop the fountain of blood spurting from the neck. The doctor sews the head back on, and the body is wrapped in the blue plastic sheet and taken away in an ambulance. Burial takes place in an unmarked grave in the prison cemetery.
Beheadings of women did not start until the early 1990’s, previously they were shot. Forty seven women have been publicly beheaded up to the end of 2009.
Most executions take place in the three major cities of Riyadh, Jeddah and Dahran. Saudi executioners take great pride in their work and the post tends to be handed down from one generation to the next.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2966790.stm

Saudi Arabia's leading executioner says he is "very proud to do God's work" and does not lose sleep over beheading several people in one day.

In a rare interview, Muhammad Saad al-Beshi, 42, told the Saudi daily Arab News that he had executed numerous women, as well as men.

"Despite the fact that I hate violence against women, when it comes to God's will, I have to carry it out."

He expressed indifference about the number of beheadings he was required to carry out.

I sleep very well... I live a normal life like everyone else
Muhammad Saad al-Beshi

"It doesn't matter to me: two, four, 10 - as long as I'm doing God's will, it doesn't matter how many people I execute".

Under the Gulf kingdom's strict Islamic Sharia laws, the death penalty can be imposed for murder, rape, apostasy, armed robbery, drug trafficking and repeated drug use.

The Saudi authorities report public executions regularly - and are condemned by Western human rights groups.

Choice of death

Mr Beshi said he sometimes shot dead women convicted under Sharia.

"It depends what they ask me to use. Sometimes they ask me to use a sword and sometimes a gun. But most of the time I use the sword," he said.

When they get to the execution square, their strength drains away
Muhammad Saad al-Beshi

His job at a prison in Taif, where he had to handcuff and blindfold prisoners facing death, gave him a taste for executions, he told Arab News.

Back in 1998, when he carried out his first execution in Jeddah, he was nervous, because many people were watching. But now he no longer suffers from "stage fright," he explained.

"The criminal was tied and blindfolded. With one stroke of the sword I severed his head. It rolled metres away," he said, recalling his first beheading.

"There are many people who faint when they witness an execution. I don't know why they come and watch if they don't have the stomach for it," he said.

"No one is afraid of me. I have a lot of relatives, and many friends at the mosque, and I live a normal life like everyone else. There are no drawbacks for my social life."

Treasured sword

He is a contented father of seven.

Executioner Muhammad Saad al-Beshi (photo: Arab News)
Beshi trains the next generation of executioners (photo: Arab News)

Mr Beshi said his sword was a gift from the government.

He keeps it razor sharp and sometimes his children help him clean it.

"People are amazed how fast it can separate the head from the body," he said.

Before an execution he visits the victim's family to seek forgiveness for the criminal, which can lead to the criminal's life being spared.

"I always have that hope, until the very last minute, and I pray to God to give the criminal a new lease of life."

Once an execution goes ahead, his only conversation with the prisoner is to tell him or her to recite the "Shahada" - an affirmation of Muslim faith.

"When they get to the execution square, their strength drains away. Then I read the execution order, and at a signal I cut the prisoner's head off," he said.

Training

As an experienced executioner, Mr Beshi now trains others for the grim task. He is proud that his son was taken on as an executioner.

Training focuses on how to hold the sword and where to bring the blade down.

Sometimes he also has to carry out amputations of hands or legs.

"I use a special sharp knife, not a sword. When I cut off a hand I cut it from the joint. If it is a leg the authorities specify where it is to be taken off, so I follow that."

TV Profile on him
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxmBp23W6nc

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Saudi_Arabia

Saudi Arabia is one of the leading countries with use of the capital punishment and number of executions worldwide.
[edit] Methods

Currently Saudi Arabia is one of the few countries in the world which still uses beheading (with a sword) as an official method of execution. Beheadings are preceded by the condemned being tapped of most of their blood and ingesting fairly large amounts of various drugs in order to reduce pain in case of a botched execution, as well as minimize prisoner movement and excessive flow of gore once the beheading is carried out.

Almost all executions are carried out in public (see Deera Square). There have been some crimes such as raping children where criminals have been crucified after execution.
[edit] Crimes

Saudi law allows the death penalty for a number of crimes. For example:

* Murder
* Adultery
* Rape
* Sexual misconduct
* Apostasy
* Blasphemy
* Homosexuality
* Drug smuggling
* Sedition
* Prostitution
* Witchcraft
* Idolatry

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Saudi law allows the death penalty for a number of crimes. For example:

* Murder
* Adultery
* Rape
* Sexual misconduct
* Apostasy
* Blasphemy
* Homosexuality
* Drug smuggling
* Sedition
* Prostitution
* Witchcraft
* Idolatry

That's some fucked up laws leading towards an execution. :|

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

That's some fucked up laws leading towards an execution. :|

Yeah, 5 of those aren't even real crimes in most places in the world.

 

[Masta_Killah]

The Gurkha soldier should be hailed as a hero. These terrorists get a taste of their own medicine and the British pussy out and are now trying to do damage control. Also, anyone remember Nick Berg?

 

[RiskyChris]

The Gurkha soldier should be hailed as a hero. These terrorists get a taste of their own medicine and the British pussy out and are now trying to do damage control. Also, anyone remember Nick Berg?

What the fuck does doing damage control have to do with being a pussy? Christ.

 

[xelios]

Hey atleast he cut off his head when he was dead, unlike the Taliban.

Yup.

Ship the head back to "them" to bury after using it to prove his identity, if it matters that much. *shrug*

 

[Masta_Killah]

What the fuck does doing damage control have to do with being a pussy? Christ.

Instead of congratulating the guy, they condemn him. They basically are trying to distance themselves from him in order to try to keep a favorable image with the locals. That'd be fine and dandy expect that the guy they killed was an enemy combatant. Any locals who would be upset about it are probably allied with the Taliban. I wouldn't be surprised if the locals were cheering the incident, considering how they've been oppressed by the Taliban for years.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

if these afghans are so worried about a fucking warlord and possible terrorist piece of shit, then maybe they aren't worth saving or even appeasing.