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[Stinkles]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTbuG--UKOQ&feature=related

The Knife in question.

One of these guys HAS TO BE the "starwars kid"'s dad

.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Isn't it not tolerated in the US military as well?

Don't ask don't tell?

Not for too much longer.

Taliban's going have to cope with a solider who is American and could be potential Gay and Jewish kicking their ass soon!

Honestly, I'd start up the propaganda machine saying look at he Taliban, they can't beat a bunch of Gay Jews!* :lol

*Yeah, that's awful, but why not use their own intolerance against them.

 

[xbhaskarx]

Why is it less important? Because the wars are completely fucking different, and Nazis were supported by a very powerful and centralized authority system.

So if we ever attack Iran with its powerful centralized authority system, then calling it "operation infinite justice" will be acceptable... gotcha.

 

[RiskyChris]

So if we ever invade Iran with its powerful centralized authority system, then calling it "operation infinite justice" will be acceptable... gotcha.

I don't know if it would be acceptable because I don't know what kind of implications that would have on the war.

We know for a fact the kinds of things negative mindshare does to the Taliban.

 

[Mechanical Snowman]

You are nuts. What's their problem tacitly becomes ours.

Yeah I was considering editing that out after I read it afterwards, because I realised it was a bit dumb.

I did want your views on the homosexuality thing though, seeing as you think we should be so respectful of their religion / culture or whatever in case we "piss them off".

 

[Rorschach]

should have just brought a camera or something, or taken a piece of hair if they wanted dna. less hassle (in terms of being seen as a politically provocative move) and safer given that i can't imagine hacking a head off with a knife is something you can do quickly, something probably somewhat necessary when in a dangerous warzone.

How would they get a matching sample?

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

pretty badass

Funny how a situation changes when it's the other way around.

 

[xbhaskarx]

How would they get a matching sample?

We have the DNA of all known terrorists in a database, even for those whose entire families live in remote mountainous Afghani/NWFP villages that are hostile to us.

Funny how a situation changes when it's the other way around.

Really, have the Taliban ever beheaded for identification purposes any soldier who had already died in combat?

 

[RiskyChris]

Yeah I was considering editing that out after I read it afterwards, because I realised it was a bit dumb.

I did want your views on the homosexuality thing though, seeing as you think we should be so respectful of their religion / culture or whatever in case we "piss them off".

If there was actual evidence that it was hurting more than helping, I don't see any problem with moving gay imperialist pawns to other parts of the globe.

Funny how a situation changes when it's the other way around.

Don't really find war funny either.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

How would they get a matching sample?

You can collect hair, though I feel the Taliban would get just as pissy, but you risk contamination of the sample if not secured well, and I doubt you get optimal situations on the battlefield.

Good question on the cutting off, but if the person was dead and the knife was powerful enough its possible. I'm shocked Mythbusters never did a Rambo episode to test out if you can decapitate an enemy in one blow. Man a Rambo themed Mythbusters episode would be awesome.

EDIT: Sorry I thought you meant from the solider.

 

[finowns]

If there was actual evidence that it was hurting more than helping, I don't see any problem with moving gay imperialist pawns to other parts of the globe.

And now you are nuts.

 

[RiskyChris]

And now you are nuts.

Wanna content post a little and tell me why, because it's pretty consistent with my opinion itt that we should minimize negative consequences of our policy in the region.

 

[xbhaskarx]

If there was actual evidence that it was hurting more than helping, I don't see any problem with moving gay imperialist pawns to other parts of the globe.

Are you a joke character? Please tell me you are a joke character.

 

[Empty]

How would they get a matching sample?

i dunno, i just based the example off the fact that they used the DNA from the head to identify the beheaded taliban target from the story in the OP.

Army sources said that the soldier, who is in his early 20s, initially told investigators that he unsheathed his kukri – the symbolic weapon of the Gurkhas – after running out of ammunition.

But later the Taliban fighter was mutilated so his identity could be verified through DNA tests.

Nothing is done to intentionally piss them off, if they start crying over some bullshit, it's their problem.

What about gay troops fighting in the middle east, too? Should they be discharged because homosexuality isn't tolerated in Islamic countries?

just being gay isn't an overt, and provocative move like openly treating the dead in a way antithetical to muslim cultural values is. it's more like afghans knowing that some people in the coalition forces don't have a problem burying soldiers without heads. unless they are going round having public gay sex orgies in afghan village squares, which i think would be punished somehow, i don't think the comparison is that valid.

 

[RiskyChris]

Are you a joke character? Please tell me you are a joke character.

Same goes to you. Content much? I don't believe evidence can ever surface showing such a tie, so I don't think that kind of US policy would ever come into place. But my point stands.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

just being gay isn't an overt, and provocative move like openly treating the dead in a way antithetical to muslim cultural values is. it's more like afghans knowing that some people in the coalition forces don't have a problem burying soldiers without heads. unless they are going round having public gay sex orgies in afghani village squares, which i think would be punished somehow, i don't think the comparison is that valid.

I don't think when Saudi Arabia executes people for being gay its due to massive sticky, wet, and wild public orgies in Mecca. The implication is more than enough.

 

[RiskyChris]

I don't think when Saudi Arabia executes people for being gay its due to massive sticky, wet, and wild public orgies in Mecca.

I don't think this is relevant in any way.

 

[mre]

You can collect hair, though I feel the Taliban would get just as pissy, but you risk contamination of the sample if not secured well, and I doubt you get optimal situations on the battlefield.

Good question on the cutting off, but if the person was dead and the knife was powerful enough its possible. I'm shocked Mythbusters never did a Rambo episode to test out if you can decapitate an enemy in one blow. Man a Rambo themed Mythbusters episode would be awesome.

EDIT: Sorry I thought you meant from the solider.

This only matters if there's some sort of reference sample to compare the DNA sample to. Otherwise it's useless as a means of identification.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I don't think this is relevant in any way.

It is when you consider the question of whether homosexuality would need to be overt to send the Taliban into a homophobic tailspin of bitchiness to rant about. It clearly isn't.

This only makes a difference if there's some sort of reference sample to compare the DNA sample to.

That's true, I thought he meant what could be taken from a corpse, not the source of what it can be compared against. Still, that gives more reason why the actions were necessary. It's quite possible there was no comparable DNA source to compare it against.

 

[Mechanical Snowman]

just being gay isn't an overt, and provocative move like openly treating the dead in a way antithetical to muslim cultural values is. it's more like afghans knowing that some people in the coalition forces don't have a problem burying soldiers without heads. unless they are going round having public gay sex orgies in afghani village squares, which i think would be punished somehow, i don't think the comparison is that valid.

I wasn't directly comparing my point to the story in the OP.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

You can collect hair, though I feel the Taliban would get just as pissy, but you risk contamination of the sample if not secured well, and I doubt you get optimal situations on the battlefield.

Good question on the cutting off, but if the person was dead and the knife was powerful enough its possible. I'm shocked Mythbusters never did a Rambo episode to test out if you can decapitate an enemy in one blow. Man a Rambo themed Mythbusters episode would be awesome.

EDIT: Sorry I thought you meant from the solider.

From wikipedia:

In combat, the kukri is basically used in three different styles: stabbing with the point, slashing or chopping with the edge, and (rarely) throwing. Because it has an angular blade bending towards the opponent, the user need not create an angle in the wrist, which makes a kukri more comfortable as a stabbing weapon. Its heavy blade enables the user to inflict deep wounds and to cut through muscle and bone. Gorkhas were known for using the kukri to chop off an enemy soldier's head with one stroke.

 

[Enosh]

We have the DNA of all known terrorists in a database, even for those whose entire families live in remote mountainous Afghani/NWFP villages that are hostile to us.

and how the hell do you know this?

 

[xbhaskarx]

and how the hell do you know this?

My sarcasm detector told me.

 

[RiskyChris]

It is when you consider the question of whether homosexuality would need to be overt to send the Taliban into a homophobic tailspin of bitchiness to rant about. It clearly isn't.

The point is that a gay soldier is not nearly as overt as an actual tangible action.

I don't see how there is much connection between how they (Saudi Arabia?) persecute their own gay people and how they'd (the Taliban?) react to gay coalition soldiers.

 

[mre]

and how the hell do you know this?

My head hurts, man. I just got nailed in the face with the sarcasm that flew over your head.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

From wikipedia:In combat, the kukri is basically used in three different styles: stabbing with the point, slashing or chopping with the edge, and (rarely) throwing. Because it has an angular blade bending towards the opponent, the user need not create an angle in the wrist, which makes a kukri more comfortable as a stabbing weapon. Its heavy blade enables the user to inflict deep wounds and to cut through muscle and bone. Gorkhas were known for using the kukri to chop off an enemy soldier's head with one stroke.

Thanks!

+1 for authenticity in Rambo!

Still, a Rambo Mythbusters episode would be awesome.

 

[Empty]

I don't think when Saudi Arabia executes people for being gay its due to massive sticky, wet, and wild public orgies in Mecca. The implication is more than enough.

the implication can be stirred up whether or not there are any gay soldiers, though, without open provocative homosexuality. so it's meaningless to my point about trying to acknowledge the need to act sensitively.

of course it also brings into account the notion that the forces' strategic needs aren't the only factor, i think allowing homosexuals to serve even if it is the tiniest provocative is permissible to help overcome struggles in other places, as well as being a matter of human rights, whereas allowing the possibly head cutting off doesn't really help us in other areas, at all, unless there is no other way to identify someone without having their full head/body.

edit: that second part addresses mechanical snowman a bit, who seems to be talking about the boundaries of strategies to help appease the residents of the the countries our forces happen to occupy now and for the foreseeable future.

 

[Dead Man]

My head hurts, man. I just got nailed in the face with the sarcasm that flew over your head.

:lol

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

My head hurts, man. I just got nailed in the face with the sarcasm that flew over your head.

We actually do have access to a lot of terrorist DNA, more accurately from family members or distant relation. It came up in a Seymour Hersh article IIRC.

The point is that a gay soldier is not nearly as overt as an actual tangible action.

I don't see how there is much connection between how they (Saudi Arabia?) persecute their own gay people and how they'd (the Taliban?) react to gay coalition soldiers.

Because they both are intensely homophobic assholes who have other similarities between them, thus allowing for comparisons.

the implication can be stirred up whether or not there are any gay soldiers, though, without open provocative homosexuality. so it's meaningless to my point about trying to acknowledge the need to act sensitively. of course it also brings into account the fact that the forces' needs aren't the only factor, i think allowing homosexuals to serve even if it is the tiniest provocative is permissible to help overcome struggles in other places, as well as being a matter of human rights, .

Oh I have absolutely no problem with gays being allowed to serve. Honestly to countries bitchy about that, then they can bugger off. I'm just saying the Taliban will bitch regardless of overt homosexual acts or just implications, because they're homophobic assholes.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

To sum up, RiskyChris is a bit of a bellend, and is ridiculously naive, and a Gurkha chopping off a head is worth more attention than a self-righteous GAF poster. Back to the awesome knives.

pretty much, the gurkhas are born warriors,

i hardly think it's baffling that the coalition forces in afganistan, who want to eliminate the taliban, along with it's influence, and establish a legitimate, stable and democratic central government that is supported by them, as well as maintain the safety of their troops by improving relations with the afghan people (for intelligence and strategic benefits), would want to take steps to possibly avoid angering the population, who are crucial in succeeding there. nor do i think it's out there to recognize that there is a good chance that this soldiers actions, thanks to the cultural beliefs of people living there about burials, might hurt attempts to garner support and as a result endanger their strategic aims in the region as well as damage the safety of our troops . it's not "political correctness gone mad tm", it's acknowledging that acting sensitively in an occupied territory with a different culture to us helps benefit our aims.

A load of fancy words, afghanistan is a third world country regularly fought over by warlords. Every man carries a kalashnikov and it's not uncommon to beat women and bum little boys. A gurkha chopping the head off a "hated" taliban while under fire ain't gonna do shit to relations. And if it does then those afghanis need a reality check.

 

[RiskyChris]

A gurkha chopping the head off a "hated" taliban while under fire ain't gonna do shit to relations. And if it does then those afghanis need a reality check.

Yes, be insufferably condescending to them.

 

[Raxel]

.

 

[B For Bendetta]

Geez is this the thread of logical fallacy and chest pumping blind national pride? The soldier violated International Law, and YES, it is covered under the Geneva Conventions under Additional Protocol I. The Geneva Conventions are set up to be respected by signatories even in conflicts with non-signatories specifically because of this "Well they do worse stuff to us" idiocy. If you guys want to condone and endorse such violations of international law, then maybe your sense of morality is closer to these terrorist organizations you hate so much than to the western world.

 

[DodgyGeezerFella]

Friend currently serving out there told me about this just over a month ago. Apparently it made another taliban commander shit bricks and made a run for it :lol

 

[Enosh]

My sarcasm detector told me.

last time I checked the Israelies are still working on that sarcasm detector

 

[Killuminati]

Give the man a medal.

 

[Empty]

A load of fancy words, afghanistan is a third world country regularly fought over by warlords. Every man carries a kalashnikov and it's not uncommon to beat women and bum little boys. A gurkha chopping the head off a "hated" taliban while under fire ain't gonna do shit to relations. And if it does then those afghanis need a reality check.

i don't think i used many fancy words there at all. i ran it through the microsoft office flesch–kincaid readability test and it said it was grade 12 level, which from wikipedia i gather is that of the average 17-18 year old. given that this forum is open to thirteen year olds, i guess it might help to not use fancy words like 'endanger'.

on the issue i didn't claim that afganistan doesn't have many many problems, it clearly does, my argument was merely that exacerbating them should be avoided and that it makes sense for them to try and avoid doing that given their aims there. i don't think it's that huge a deal in the grand scheme of the conflict, but things stack up and it helps to try and eliminate as many potential new problems as possible, especially the easy ones like this one. i'm not sure how your narrative account of life in afganistan really argues against that point.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Friend currently serving out there told me about this just over a month ago. Apparently it made another taliban commander shit bricks and made a run for it

A part of me wonders how much of that is due to the action and a little to the fact the Taliban (while made up of a diverse amount of tribes) don't see people from Nepal that often. I hate to indulge too much of the whole martial race thing, but I wonder what effect some "godly/foreign/unknown" solider from a race not encountered or really well known about has on the enemy. If you knew Americans some who happened to be black or Hispanic were attacking, not a huge deal, normal soldiers you face. What if it's some specialized group of say Filipino or Indonesian soldiers who are not citizens of the country and have a proud and well known history and warrior tradition are operating in the area. Guys who also have a proud tradition of BFKnives and considered some of the best soldiers in the world. I have to wonder if they wouldn't shit bricks in part due to the mystique as well.

Geez is this the thread of logical fallacy and chest pumping blind national pride? The soldier violated International Law, and YES, it is covered under the Geneva Conventions under Additional Protocol I. The Geneva Conventions are set up to be respected by signatories even in conflicts with non-signatories specifically because of this "Well they do worse stuff to us" idiocy. If you guys want to condone and endorse such violations of international law, then maybe your sense of morality is closer to these terrorist organizations you hate so much than to the western world.

Everything is a violation of international law these days. Besides one minor incident is not a systematic violation. In the scheme of things it's a the same as people speeding. You going to go after EVERYONE (Leon aka Professional ref). No, you're not. If this was a systematic thing done for no purpose but to terrorize (and not kill during normal combat), then you might have a point. This is otherwise a de minimis violation. Yeah I compared a single incident of corpse mutilation to a speeding car and I have no problem doing it.

Besides I'm surprised you're not going with the whole Gurkhas are illegal mercs under international law (along with the Swiss guard and French Foreign Legion). It's a far more interesting angle than a de minimis violation.

 

[RiskyChris]

lol you compared violations of international law (hey we all break it) to speeding

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

lol you compared violations of international law (hey we all break it) to speeding

LOL I already said I was doing that.

Nice way to not respond to any issues presented. You seem to be very selective in who you respond to. It's as if you're allergic to responding to anything by anyone who presents evidence in support of it's view. You're dismissive nature betrays you inability to properly argue a point.

 

[slider]

If you don't enforce the law there's no point to it.

 

[Empty]

Geez is this the thread of logical fallacy and chest pumping blind national pride? The soldier violated International Law, and YES, it is covered under the Geneva Conventions under Additional Protocol I. The Geneva Conventions are set up to be respected by signatories even in conflicts with non-signatories specifically because of this "Well they do worse stuff to us" idiocy. If you guys want to condone and endorse such violations of international law, then maybe your sense of morality is closer to these terrorist organizations you hate so much than to the western world.

surely your country has laws you disagree with, no? i don't think you'd get much traction in a thread about marijuana by saying 'that's illegal, if you condone using it then your sense of morality is like the violent drug dealers more than you think', for example. well that can work for international law too. asserting that something is law is a particularly compelling argument here, maybe tell us why you think it is wrong if you want to attack those who argue otherwise.

 

[RiskyChris]

LOL I already said I was doing that.

Nice way to not respond to any issues presented. You seem to be very selective in who you respond to. It's as if you're allergic to responding to anything by anyone who presents evidence in support of it's view. You're dismissive nature betrays you inability to properly argue a point.

Says the guy who dismissed my posting as simply anti-western garbage bias with no grounding in reality.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Says the guy who dismissed my posting as simply anti-western garbage bias with no grounding in reality.

Says the guys whose posting history not related to Western porn or Western women on the beach says otherwise.

You are still attempting to avoid examining the point.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

OMG GUYS, DON'T KILL PEOPLE THAT WE ARE AT WAR WITH, MAYBE IF WE TALK ABOUT OUR FEELINGS AFTER THE WEDNESDAY TALIBAN POETRY SLAM WE CAN JOIN HANDS AND SING KUMBAYA AND END THE WAR.

Shit sucks. People have to die. Heads sometimes have to be cut. Nobody wants it this way, but that's the way it is.

RiskyChris is naive...for agreeing with the British Army's decision?

The fuck? This thread is insufferably stupid.

 

[RiskyChris]

Says the guys whose posting history not related to Western porn or Western women on the beach says otherwise.

You are still attempting to avoid examining the point.

I don't really have any interest in the point to be quite honest. I have had nothing but ample evidence and reasons for my critiques of what you call "western ideas." Just because you don't care to see it and just call me biased and irrational doesn't make it so.

And what, if I started posting the good things about America would it make you feel better? Being critical doesn't preclude my recognizing anything positive about the western world.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I don't really have any interest in the point to be quite honest. I have had nothing but ample evidence and reasons for my critiques of what you call "western ideas." Just because you don't care to see it and just call me biased and irrational doesn't make it so.

In short you're just going to ignore the main issue and focus on an (honestly) unimportant sub-issue as a means of avoiding your inability to counter the points I've made.

And what, if I started posting the good things about America would it make you feel better? Being critical doesn't preclude my recognizing anything positive about the western world.

No, but it would actually produce evidence to make a claim that you're not fundamentally Anti-American.

 

[methos75]

I think the key element that is being forgotten here is that this soldier was a Gurkha and while they fight for the UK, they most definitely have their own warrior codes and culture that are outside Western Ideals and they are historically known for being ruthless, aggressive fighters who give no quarter and use terror to demoralize their enemies. I am not condoning what he did, but culturally he was within his people's codes.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

In short you're just going to ignore the main issue and focus on an (honestly) unimportant sub-issue as a means of avoiding your inability to counter the points I've made.
No, but it would actually produce evidence to make a claim that you're not fundamentally Anti-American.

Speaking of avoiding the issue, I hear name-calling can be pretty effective.

 

[RiskyChris]

In short you're just going to ignore the main issue and focus on an (honestly) unimportant sub-issue as a means of avoiding your inability to counter the points I've made.

No, but it would actually produce evidence to make a claim that you're not fundamentally Anti-American.

Absence of evidence.