As a non native english speaker (or reader in that case), I totally agree. I read the first 4 books of the Malazan series and just stopped because they were so unnecessarily hard to read. I've read dozens (if not hundreds) of books in English, and these are the very first ones where this happened.Blackace said:
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HBO to make A Song of Ice and Fire series!!!
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Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
Blackace said:
No, thank you!
Tim the Wiz
Banned
Seriously, I'm still on the first Malazan book, trying to slog through the first hundred pages or so. I just can't really bring myself to come back and complete it. I don't know whether its the writing style, the lack of motivation for continued reading, the characters, or whatever else, but yeah, whenever I open up that book I'm bored to tears... I mean, I'd rather go read something like a play by Shakespeare or damn it, ****ing Pinter than go through it. I know it's supposed to get better as you go along, but very few books tend to bore me to tears at the start and win me over with its body. Here's hoping.
The first Malazan book, Gardens of the Moon, was VERY hard to get into. It wasn't until about 300 pages or so into it that it started clicking for me. Erickson does a very poor job explaining things. What's a warren? What are the differences between them? Who the hell is this new character?
Looking back on it, especially having reread the first book in the past few months, I think he did these things purposely. I'm not sure why, but it certainly doesn't reward new readers.
Looking back on it, especially having reread the first book in the past few months, I think he did these things purposely. I'm not sure why, but it certainly doesn't reward new readers.
Prime crotch
Banned
Damn it I keep coming here in hopes of news about either the show or the next book and get none.
RamzaIsCool
The Amiga Brotherhood
Btw what's up
with that red comet thing in book 2, they made kind of a big deal out of it like half the book and then it doesn't get mentioned anymore. And I am now 100 pages in book 3 and still nothing about the comet
Prime crotch
Banned
I think it went away near the end of the second book, it was interesseting to see how every character saw it as a diferent omen.RamzaIsCool said:
Cornballer
Member
Learn2read
Member
Scrow said:ah fuck... serves me right for highlighting a spoiler. normally they're not really a spoiler!
but it's real, real, good.
Tim the Wiz said:
You know, I had the same exact problem. It didnt click until much later in the book, and from that point on it became my favorite series. At first I wasnt that happy or excited about the book, and it was kind of confusing and even a chore to read through. If you stick with it, trust me, you will be very well rewarded.
Jugendstil
Member
Gardens of the Moon was initially off putting, but as someone else said, he starts at a moment in history and just goes from there. While it was confusing, I absolutely love the fact nothing is explained right away. It makes the books way more interesting, and when you do finally have the explanation, it's always really rewarding.
Martin is great with characterization, but I wouldn't say he's a great writer. Having just read through the first four ASOFI novels for the second time, I noticed there are a lot anachronisms in his dialouge There was a point in one of the books where one of the characters used the word "butt" in a really modern way and it just sounded dumb. I don't expect everyone in the book to sound like they walked out of Canterbury Tales, but sometimes it sounds like fan fiction.
Martin is great with characterization, but I wouldn't say he's a great writer. Having just read through the first four ASOFI novels for the second time, I noticed there are a lot anachronisms in his dialouge There was a point in one of the books where one of the characters used the word "butt" in a really modern way and it just sounded dumb. I don't expect everyone in the book to sound like they walked out of Canterbury Tales, but sometimes it sounds like fan fiction.
My problem with it was it was too unbelievable. I only read a fraction of the first book before I gave up...each of the characters were basically uber wizards that could fling around a continent for fun and die 3 or 4 times each...it was just too much..it reminded me of Dungeons and Dragons on steroids...as if each character began the 'game' as level 50 wizards. SoIaF's magical build up is a REALLY slow burn, but to compare that and Malazan, ASOIAF is more suited to what I'm looking for in fantasy.Jugendstil said:
Jugendstil
Member
Gattsu25 said:
I don't know, I guess I am willing to be more open minded towards heavy magic use because I feel like the majority of current fantasy novels have the same concept that "magic has gone out of the world except somehow the main character(s) will be involved in its return." It's really refreshing to read a series that involves powerful characters from the get go. I love the fact that even gods are involved in the plot, and they are as expendable as any of the others. Aside from that, it's a fantasy novel. One of the reasons I personally enjoy the genre is that it isn't realistic. It's not like it turns into a Dragon Ball Z episode or anything.
Jugendstil said:
Yeah I'm pretty sick of the martin-esque - oh look at this rare and special magic. In that respect, I much prefer the way it was with WoT. Prince of Nothing does this very well as well.
The only book in which there has been rare magic but I feel got it right is Elric. Then again, everything about Elric was perfect so what else can be said.
Everyone in this thread needs to read Prince of Nothing though. Especially those who didn't like Martin.
Johnny Livealot
Member
I love most epic fantasy work but the Malazan books read like well done D&D fiction. Everyone is insanely over-powered and often have shallow motivations. Plus Erikson tends throw out really interesting ideas or glmpses and never follow up on them. What was that giant green space thingy from Book 3 (or was it 4)?
*** Wait Gattzu's post which says the exact same thing wasn't there a second ago. Whoops.
*** Wait Gattzu's post which says the exact same thing wasn't there a second ago. Whoops.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Gattsu25 said:
I was saying this too and people were not believing I was saying it!
Again it is D&D..it was a RPG first, book second. and the first book was crap, 2nd book flowed much better. But his style isn't very good. His world is very rich and deep. I assume that is because he spent so much time creating the world for his RPG. But his style is very stiff and his characters are very shallow! Just my opinion. Of course on this board I lose all creditability because I still like Robert Jordan's series. :lol But I still think both (early) Jordan and Martin are just better story tellers..
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
QVT said:
Read book one and enjoyed it.. felt floaty to me at times, but damn were his ideas and concepts just awesome!
Book 10 did suck but the rest were all pretty good. Knife of Dreams was good.
1 - 8 were fantasy heaven for me 9 was pretty weak and 10 was like wtf..but 11 mad a strong showing.. and can't wait for 12!
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
I'm so ****ing hyped for this.
Now if I can just get an animated version of Belgariad/Mallorean.
Now if I can just get an animated version of Belgariad/Mallorean.
Blackace said:
The books really get solid after one, and are certainly worth reading
I like most feel that WoT bombed after 6, with 10 being rock bottom. Hopefully 12 turns out well, as I'd like to see it end well.
Sword of truth 11 is coming out near that time as well. Crazy.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
QVT said:
sword od truth is crap.. (still read them.. haha)
WoT: I really liked 6 and 7.. with maybe 5 being my favorite in the series... due to the fact that it feels like the glue of the entire series... the first 4 were just like an adventurers dream!
Yeah I just polished off Robin Hobb's Assassin series.. taking a short fantasy novel break.. and going to get the rest of prince of nothing!
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
On topic:
I remember the first time Martin killed a major character. At first I was like, OH SHIT. You know, like that kid in The Neverending Story ? I jumped up, threw the book down, and ran out of the room. Then, peering back into the room, saw that I had an awesome book to finish. And it was awesome.
=============
Off topic:
If we're doing recommendations, I would strongly suggest Tad Williams' Otherland to any single person that has ever played videogame, played on the internet, or better yet--both at the same time. Awesome, awesome series.
My list:
1. David Eddings - Belgariad/Mallorean - favorite series ever. Deep, dark, humorous, and actually FUN to read.
2. GRRM - ASoIaF -- I hope he finishes this up.
3. Tad Williams - Otherland -- see above
4. Robert Jordan - WoT -- Really great, up through Crown of Swords. Progressively worse and formulaic since then.
5. Terry Goodkind - SoT -- A fun read, sometimes bordering on romance. Anybody that got as far as that crazy chicken with the wild eyes knows what I'm talking about. Good series but at some point it's like, "jesus, are you just throwing obstacles in their path to make this shit last longer?"
5. Phillip Pullman -- His Dark Materials (Golden Compass/Subtle Knife/Amber Spyglass) -- DO NOT OVERLOOK THESE because they're aimed at teens. Very good.
6. Harry Potter -- 'nuff said.
I remember the first time Martin killed a major character. At first I was like, OH SHIT. You know, like that kid in The Neverending Story ? I jumped up, threw the book down, and ran out of the room. Then, peering back into the room, saw that I had an awesome book to finish. And it was awesome.
=============
Off topic:
If we're doing recommendations, I would strongly suggest Tad Williams' Otherland to any single person that has ever played videogame, played on the internet, or better yet--both at the same time. Awesome, awesome series.
My list:
1. David Eddings - Belgariad/Mallorean - favorite series ever. Deep, dark, humorous, and actually FUN to read.
2. GRRM - ASoIaF -- I hope he finishes this up.
3. Tad Williams - Otherland -- see above
4. Robert Jordan - WoT -- Really great, up through Crown of Swords. Progressively worse and formulaic since then.
5. Terry Goodkind - SoT -- A fun read, sometimes bordering on romance. Anybody that got as far as that crazy chicken with the wild eyes knows what I'm talking about. Good series but at some point it's like, "jesus, are you just throwing obstacles in their path to make this shit last longer?"
5. Phillip Pullman -- His Dark Materials (Golden Compass/Subtle Knife/Amber Spyglass) -- DO NOT OVERLOOK THESE because they're aimed at teens. Very good.
6. Harry Potter -- 'nuff said.
Tim the Wiz
Banned
Blackace said:
If you liked the Assassin series, you'll love the Tawny Man trilogy. (or perhaps, vice versa?) A more mature Fitz taking care of business years on down the track, you know you want it.
PantherLotus said:
Everything Tad Williams I have hated. I tried reading both otherland and memory sorrow and thorn and blah urgh argh. Christian allegories just pain me in the hearts.
Eddings is a bit childlike although if you read it when you were younger then that is excusable. I like how you put the slash between them, as they're the exact same plot, characters, and books, but under different titles. They even resolve themselves in the exact same way, although how you can call those dark and not make piddle at GRRMurder afterwards, I dunno.
I've said enough about GRRMurder in the past.
WoT and SoT we've been over, first book of SoT was good as well as book 6 and 10. Hopefully 11 is solid as well.
Haven't read pullman, as they're aimed at teens.
My recommendations:
Prince of Nothing by R Scott Bakker - Fantasy + philosophy, and while some of it is questionable, for a debut series it is rather excellent. I just wish there was more good philosophy and less of the bad stuff.
American Gods by Neil Gaiman - not so much epic fantasy, but probably the best single fantasy book I've ever read anyways. Sheer brilliance.
ANYTHING YOU CAN GET YOUR NERDY LITTLE HANDS ON by Gene Wolfe - Language reminiscent of only the master(nabokov) and the stories and characters are all awesome and dream-like.
Those are the only 3 authors/series I'm willing to stand behind, as SoT's first and 6th books were already mentioned.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
I am dying a Jordan fan for better or for worse!
back on topic, Martin is pretty the best read I have had in the fantasy field. Jordan opened the door truly for me from when I was 14 or so and Martin has grabbed my mind like no other since Jordan... takes a great writer to make a series as long as these and still be fresh while connecting everything like one super long book...
back on topic, Martin is pretty the best read I have had in the fantasy field. Jordan opened the door truly for me from when I was 14 or so and Martin has grabbed my mind like no other since Jordan... takes a great writer to make a series as long as these and still be fresh while connecting everything like one super long book...
My Arms Your Hearse
Banned
I've re-read the the four books over the last week and I've come to the conclusion that there is no way that the HBO series isn't going to be an epic disgrace. I mean... it could be good entertainment if you haven't actually read the books, but if they try to cram each book into 12 one hour episodes... LOL. And when you start thinking about budgetary concerns...
Yea... I'm just preparing to be massively let down.
Yea... I'm just preparing to be massively let down.
miyamotofreak
Banned
Question to GAF: This or Preacher for the next HBO OMG show?
Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
My Arms Your Hearse said:
Yeah, I can understand why you'd feel that way, but I'm very optimistic for two reasons:
1. HBO is amazing. They'll get the look, the feel, the casting, and the writing done right. Check out the amazing "Rome" if you don't believe me.
2. George R. R. Martin himself will be heavily involved with the series (even writing the first episodes of each season).
3. ASOIAF lends itself to a serial TV format pretty well. GRRM was actually a TV writer for a long time, and admits that his writing style has been heavily influenced by that.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Chairman Yang said:
One thing that has me real excited about point number 2. Outside of the writer having a lot of control of his vision; Martin has roots in screenwriting, so this isn't a first time thing for him. Now he is bringing his baby to life.. should be good
I'm a little concerned about the TV series because there are so many children in the books. I was getting a little tired of it in the novels, but on screen it could be even worse.
BTW, is there a projected date to the start of the first season? Off topic: Any news on a Preacher start date?
I'd like to recommend a few new(ish) authors:
Scott Lynch - The Lies of Lock Lamora was a great debut.
Joe Abercrombie - The Blade Itself and Before They Are Hanged - possibly my favorite author outside of Martin and Erikson now.
BTW, is there a projected date to the start of the first season? Off topic: Any news on a Preacher start date?
I'd like to recommend a few new(ish) authors:
Scott Lynch - The Lies of Lock Lamora was a great debut.
Joe Abercrombie - The Blade Itself and Before They Are Hanged - possibly my favorite author outside of Martin and Erikson now.
Therion said:
What of Wolfes is out of print, other than the short story collections? One of the sun series(short, presumably?)
And like I said, Bakker takes some of Wolfe's wordplay and style and translates it into epic fantasy instead of dreamworlds. I'll look up John Crowley.
Johnny Livealot
Member
Therion said:
The Prince of Nothing is extremely well written but I get kind of tired of the free-will stuff. Also it kinda seems the big plot twist that the first 3 books was building to doesn't make a ton of sense. So I'm really looking forward to #4 to see if he can pull it off.
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
It boggles my mind how anyone could dislike Cersei's chapters. Seeing her dig her own grave one hatefull paranoid blunder at a time was a thing of beauty. It was refreshing to have a character actually be what they seem for once.
Solideliquid
Member
How about William Hurt as Lord Eddard? I always pictured him while reading A Game of Thrones.
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
He's got the right demeanor but he's a bit too old. Ned is supposed to be in his early 30's. Hurt will be almost 60 by the time this thing gets started.
mambadragon
Banned
Brian Fellows said:
I actually wonder if they'll take liberties with the ages. I'm sure they'll hire older actors for the kids (isn't Robb 15 in Game of Thrones?) and they can't exactly show a 13 or so year old Dany and Khal Drogo making babies.
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
I dunno man Kristen Bell played a pretty young hooker on Deadwood. Granted her character ended up being older than she pretended to be and never actually had sex though. But she did get beaten to death. :lol
Cleopatra was also supposed to be pretty young in Rome when Pullo tapped it.
As long as they get someone over 18 who looks young I dont think they'd be too opposed.
Cleopatra was also supposed to be pretty young in Rome when Pullo tapped it.
As long as they get someone over 18 who looks young I dont think they'd be too opposed.
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