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HDR comparison shots
- Thread starter DOT DASH DOT
- Start date
This isn't true at all. Watching something like cosmos laundromat on netflix is a picture depth and quality ive never seen in my life.
Clint Beastwood
Banned
yeah hdr looks like shit on my iphone so the tech is overrated
Milly Osworth
Member
Crank up the orange and blue = HDR
The hdr is on the right in those comparison shots, the more natural looking picture.
Another thing to notice is the sun in the first pic. On the non hdr set the brightness of the sun bleeds over any of the details of the clouds covering it. In the hdr pic, the sun is just as bright (probably way brighter in person) yet you can see all the detail of the clouds in front of it thanks to the enhanced contrast.
I'm not doubting HDR, but these comparisons are a total joke. "Shitty calibration, shitty exposure, shitty color and white balance" = non-HDR?
Not something you can convey with photos like this. The examples from companies are no better, either. "Just crank up the saturation close enough!"
Not something you can convey with photos like this. The examples from companies are no better, either. "Just crank up the saturation close enough!"
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
so if I can see these HDR changes on any old monitor, does that mean any old monitor can do HDR ? 
j/k
Posting 'comparisons' isn't going to do anything since 95% of people viewing those images won't have HDR on them, to us it looks like one picture's colors have been muted and the others increased, something any display can do.
j/k
Posting 'comparisons' isn't going to do anything since 95% of people viewing those images won't have HDR on them, to us it looks like one picture's colors have been muted and the others increased, something any display can do.
The "muted" one is the hdr screen though. The comparisons show off the detail in bright areas pretty well. Notice you can see all the ripples in the water on the suns reflection, compared to the non hdr where the suns reflection is just a big orange blob.so if I can see these HDR changes on any old monitor, does that mean any old monitor can do HDR ?
j/k
Posting 'comparisons' isn't going to do anything since 95% of people viewing those images won't have HDR on them, to us it looks like one picture's colors have been muted and the others increased, something any display can do.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Now that's fascinating. I thought the muted one was supposed to represent 'normal' panels. But then, to my untrained eye it looks like the level of detail is exactly the same, I don't see any extra pop except the sun being a lot more 'blatantly obvious'.
I guess I need to see them side by side with my own eyes to become a believer.
The Hamburglar
Banned
i thought monitors already have colours and contrast as standard compared to tvs
The non hdr panel looks over saturated in comparison because with way less color variations it just seems like orange and blue. The hdr shot looks more realistic because it can display like a billion different colors, making a more realistic picture.
You do need to see in person for full effect though. That one area of the screen where the sun is at is brighter than the entire screen of the sdr set.
eso76
Member
It can't show the added detail.
Any additional detail is there because of HDR would disappear again once you display the pic on your SDR screen.
This is just the way the picture was taken. If the picture was taken calculating the right exposure for the screen on the left (which appears brighter) you'd see the ripples again.
Though i'm not exactly sure how this works; from the videos posted in the other pages it looks like the colors have to be coded in a significantly different way for hdr videos, so displaying the same video on a SDR display would just give weird results.
Also, not sure if it was asked before, but what are we looking at in those screens ? HDR content, i assume ?
This is incorrect based on my own experience comparing my hdr and sdr sets. Hdr definitely allows more subtle details in bright areas.
The screen on the left is not brighter than the 700+ nit screen on the right.
Yes HDR will add 50gb to your 20gb hard drive making it a whopping 70gb hard drive. Hope this clears it up for you.
DOT DASH DOT
Member
That's what I've been trying to get across, the detail that's been clipped out on the Sony is easy to see, and an area that HDR really improves.
DOT DASH DOT
Member
Don't see how that will help, but I've said which side is which in the opening paragraph.
Yautja_Warrior
Member
Comparison shots are really bad at showing how good HDR really looks, especially the simulated ones. Better off going to a local electral store and seeing the HDR in person, that will be much more accurate of what to expect.
The comparison pictures are complete BS. It's literally impossible to see the difference between a an SDR and HDR on a SDR display. Realistically a comparison image on an SDR screen would have both look nearly identical, and only when the comparison was displayed on an HDR screen would the differences become visible.
What all these comparison images show is that either the person making them had an agenda, or they didn't have to the tools to do the job properly.
What all these comparison images show is that either the person making them had an agenda, or they didn't have to the tools to do the job properly.
This is also wrong. Hdr is coded differently, they will never look the same when you take a picture of both side by side.
You can certainly see the added detail in the hdr shots in bright areas of the screen, your sdr display you view the pics on just doesn't show the way the colors pop and hoe blindingly bright the highlights are.
KojiKnight
Member
This... these HDR picks are hammed up so that SDR viewers can go "ooo" and "ahhh".
Like an HD image on an SD TV, it's 'downsampled' and should look very similar, yes.
eso76
Member
exactly, but those details would disappear again in pics viewed on a SDR display..
Right?
People don't seem to get that you can not view the differences on a normal HD device. Nor can you capture it on a normal camera.
You need 4K HDR able devices to make the comparison. Full stop.
Not true, they just don't truly show you how bright the tv on the right is, which is why you think the one on the left is brighter.
You can still see the difference in contrast through these pics.
I ever so slightly misread. Those sorts of images side by side is used to explain HDR photography so I skimmed. My apologies.
It's a shame it's so difficult to explain...
Honestly, none of the shots are comparisons though. I dislike the idea of all of these pictures. You can illustrate 4 dimensions more than a wider colour gamut with 8-bit images on and 8-bit display
It's not wrong. It's literally impossible to show the difference on an SDR screen. Someone working with accurate tools would be able to convert the HDR image to an SDR image it would work within the bounds of SDR. Only broken tools would blow out the gamma and colors to the degree on display in this thread. Also the tools are apparently so broken that they retroactively ruin the quality of the SDR image being compared to.
So you are agreeing with me. These images are someone with an agenda manipulating images to try and get a point across. In other words they aren't accurate comparison images as that is impossible to achieve when working within the bounds of the far more restrictive format.
It's not much of a difference if any. Hdr is just a diferent gamma curve.
3rdamention
Member
DOT DASH DOT
Member
Again bang on, and that's what I've been saying, the details in the pics were exactly what I was seeing when I took them, and they are both calibrated and I've looked on other screens, it shows the difference on all of them, just not the brightness of the panel, the camera is only picking up the details it's seeing.....and not.
dreamer3kx
Member
HDR, 4k, good luck talking to regular consumer, they are looking for 1080p TVs still.
The agenda is to sell displays which you well know.
eso76
Member
look..there's no way around this.
If those details are only visible because of HDR, you won't see them on a SDR display.
Sure, if you take a closeup pic of the bright area and slightly underexpose you'll see that those details are there, while they just aren't on the SDR screen.
But as someone suggested earlier, the only way to show us how much detail we are missing, would be taking bracketed exposures and giving us the raw files to play around.
You just need to see it in person, obviously.
The tech is obviously not demoable through SDR screens
and the image does appear brighter
the difference is it's uniformly bright, when HDR should allow for dark and much brighter areas at the same time
Why would he be trying to sell displays? Am I trying to sell displays? I work at a pizza shop lol.
And man, if you're this upset about these comparison pics (for some reason) i can't imagine how upset you're gonna be when you find out the difference is waaaay more striking than this in person.
?
The thing that doesnt come accross in these pictures is that the bright highlights (like the sun) in the hdr shot are like 3 times brighter than the sun in the sdr shot. Yet, in the sdr shot the much dimmer sun washes out the entire shot, where with hdr a high contrast level is still maintained.
I just care about the technical aspects. And these comparison images are BS on that front. People are free to make them and I'm free to point out how technically inept they are.
Mr. Wonderful
Member
Even if they were, the two versions of the footage went through different color grading. You can't make a comparison like this.
Hdr is on the right.
Sorry OP but i think you used some bad settings, it doesn't look like a fair comparison exactly like most of the pictures regarding hdr.
The only pic you should trust is the bottom part of this one that explains the effect of hdr
What does it means? It means that with hdr white remains white, black remains black and so all the other non hdr colors, hdr just adds more colors between non hdr colors, every picture showing more saturated or bright colors(like the upper part of this picture too) it's false advertising or bad comparison.
Another thing, do you guys think that your camera takes the exact colors of a scene? No, photos are the result of an approximation and so the same will apply to photos of hdr, the lower the quality of the camera the more similar hdr and non-hdr should look in photos.
The only pic you should trust is the bottom part of this one that explains the effect of hdr
What does it means? It means that with hdr white remains white, black remains black and so all the other non hdr colors, hdr just adds more colors between non hdr colors, every picture showing more saturated or bright colors(like the upper part of this picture too) it's false advertising or bad comparison.
Another thing, do you guys think that your camera takes the exact colors of a scene? No, photos are the result of an approximation and so the same will apply to photos of hdr, the lower the quality of the camera the more similar hdr and non-hdr should look in photos.
Not only that, but HDR uses a greatly expanded color gamut. It's literally impossible to display most of the colors REC 2020 is capable of on a standard REC 709 display.
It's fine to care about technical stuff, but I don't think OP was trying to sell this as a 100 percent example, just showing some of the contrast differences which do come accross here.
And if you just care about technical aspects, why did you jump to some crazy conspiracy theory that a user on neogaf is posting pictures of a 2015 samsung model to try to get you to buy a new tv?
BarringGaffner
Member
Those highly saturated images are just marketing. They mean nothing.
I am a compositing supervisor in VFX and deal with colour science all day. I will try to explain...
Imagine your image colour/range is squashed down to a line.
Standard becomes 8 inches long.
HDR becomes 12 inches long.
So you start with 4 inches of extra colour/range in the HDR.
But those extra 4 inches of colour make everything blown out, overly saturated, wacky... and doesn't represent what the human eye sees.
This is where a LUT (look up table) comes in. It applies a curve to the 12 inches, and makes it becomes 10 inches (and HDR tv's can show 10!). But within that new squished down 10 is still more information. Everything that used to be at 10-12 is now between 9-10. Everything that used to be at 0-2 is now between 0-1.
Now suddenly the sky has more range in the blown out sun areas. The shadows have twice as much range in them as well.
...
Explaining this shit is hard hahah
I am a compositing supervisor in VFX and deal with colour science all day. I will try to explain...
Imagine your image colour/range is squashed down to a line.
Standard becomes 8 inches long.
HDR becomes 12 inches long.
So you start with 4 inches of extra colour/range in the HDR.
But those extra 4 inches of colour make everything blown out, overly saturated, wacky... and doesn't represent what the human eye sees.
This is where a LUT (look up table) comes in. It applies a curve to the 12 inches, and makes it becomes 10 inches (and HDR tv's can show 10!). But within that new squished down 10 is still more information. Everything that used to be at 10-12 is now between 9-10. Everything that used to be at 0-2 is now between 0-1.
Now suddenly the sky has more range in the blown out sun areas. The shadows have twice as much range in them as well.
...
Explaining this shit is hard hahah