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Hellblade 2's peak CCU outperformed Bleeding Edge and is still climbing on Steam
yazenov
Member
It's funny seeing some people using the Gamepass card as an excuse for the game bombing, when those same people were shilling for Gamepass not too long ago and using Phi's quote of "Gamepass increases games sales" to shut down any legitimate concerns and arguments against it.
Anyways this game would have bombed regardless of it being on Gamepass. Also releasing it on PC day one didn't matter either.
I think the staff at Ninja Theory better be looking for other opportunities right now because the writing is on the wall. Their are next on MS's list, if you now what I mean..
Anyways this game would have bombed regardless of it being on Gamepass. Also releasing it on PC day one didn't matter either.
I think the staff at Ninja Theory better be looking for other opportunities right now because the writing is on the wall. Their are next on MS's list, if you now what I mean..
CityHunter1981
Member
It has absolutely nothing to do with game pass, I think the main reasons for the failure are:
1. Really boring looking launch trailer, you can see that it’s basically a walking simulator.
2. The premise is the same as in the first game, so people might not be feeling like playing with this premise again.
3. There were a lot of honest reviews, who spell it out that it’s a walking sim and the gameplay is mostly just not fun.
4. The game is just not a “feel good” game and there are already enough games tv shows and movies recently, which have a similar feeling. People rather search now for games which are entertaining and lift their spirits.
5. Basically a non existing marketing campaign.
1. Really boring looking launch trailer, you can see that it’s basically a walking simulator.
2. The premise is the same as in the first game, so people might not be feeling like playing with this premise again.
3. There were a lot of honest reviews, who spell it out that it’s a walking sim and the gameplay is mostly just not fun.
4. The game is just not a “feel good” game and there are already enough games tv shows and movies recently, which have a similar feeling. People rather search now for games which are entertaining and lift their spirits.
5. Basically a non existing marketing campaign.
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
The official gif of Hellblade 2
For sure, there’s no way Microsoft was blindsided by this. They probably decided it’s better to finish the game and recoup some of the costs rather than cancel it.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
I hope Microsoft were smart enough to know what numbers to expect. They’re similar to A Plague Tale: Requiem which was also on Game Pass day 1.
Furthermore, the largest player base for this type of game is probably on PlayStation. This lines up more with games like Until Dawn or Detroit than it does with the usual Xbox games. Sony has tons of story-driven games on offer and I imagine Hellblade II would be much more likely to attract the somewhat sizable PlayStation crowd that plays stuff such as GOW or TLOU on story difficulty.
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Dirk Benedict
Gold Member
Xbox' new future boss.
JCreasy
Member
Here’s the holiday weekend bump:
Phil would look like a complete fool if Ninja Theory WASN’T on the chopping block considering he killed two studios who’s games performed better than this.
He should be begging PlayStation to take this game.
Desprado123
Member
Sony has become real brand name in PC gaming now. That is why Sony does not require huge amount of Marketing.
Sony is just like Nvidia right now in PC gaming and Xbox is AMD.
Sony is just like Nvidia right now in PC gaming and Xbox is AMD.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Playstation doesn't want it either, actual 5 hour barely interactive cinematic experiences sell poorly on the Sony side too. See The Order 1886 for more information
One thing that might help for a PS5 port is HB1 was a PS4 exclusive/timed exclusive....dont know which it was before MS acquired the studio.
The game does have somewhat of a history on PlayStation.
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
All good points, especially #2.
They had all the time, money, and foundation in the world to expand upon the 1st game. But they didn't even bother, instead of making a glorified UE5 tech demo.
After the announcement, and before more details surfaced, people were speculating how expanded the game would be, if it will be open-world or semi open-world, will there be different tribes and factions, how multi-enemies combat would look like, fighting combos, and whatnot.
Ninja Theory didn't bother with anything at all. I'm not surprised at the game's sales performance at all.
Darkness_Arises
Member
No amount of history is going to help the delayed port of a 50$ 5-6hr walking simulator with piss poor gameplay sell well on PS. The value proposition is simply not there.
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Little Chicken
Member
Kataploom
Gold Member
Wait, why are people discussing this game Steam numbers if it came to Game Pass?
We don't have Game Pass numbers, this game didn't fail if MS got their expected return from it and that's something we don't know and have no way to know yet.
I can see some dick measurement contests being played around here...
We don't have Game Pass numbers, this game didn't fail if MS got their expected return from it and that's something we don't know and have no way to know yet.
I can see some dick measurement contests being played around here...
Kataploom
Gold Member
Uh... no, please, I rather have this game being simple, I have shitton other stuff with more complex gameplay and I like some stuff not following the same than others over and over and over and over again. And just for you to know, many people that liked the original game for being a simple short experience actually were worried about the game becoming next "open world 3000 AAA cliche edition"...
Tommi84
Member
You tell me:
Phil Spencer: Game Pass leads to more game sales
This past weekend's X018 event was, arguably, a two-hour long advertisement for Game Pass, and given what Microsoft gam…
www.gamesindustry.biz
Daneel Elijah
Gold Member
In theory you are right. But in reality Hi Fi rush proves that even acclaimed games can not save a studio from MS wrath. Gamepass will probably harm a small game like Hellblade 2 more than it would help it, unless MS can prove to us that they do care about it, by giving us updates. And I don't think that we will have numbers for Hellblade 2.
DarkBatman
SBI’s Employee of the Year
However, "simple" doesn't mean that you just press the left stick forward almost all the time and then casually press a few buttons during fights. Of course it doesn't have to be a super complex open world 100 hour adventure, but it should have a little more substance and playful depth. In the end it was certainly a visually impressive tech demo, but nothing more. And charging $50 for that is a problem imo. If I had spent that price, I would have been extremely annoyed because boredom was prevalent during my playthrough.
And I also find it problematic that some people are now complaining that game sales are not the right measurement. After all, Xbox itself has been preaching for years that Gamepass enables strong sales - but Hellblade II (and some other releases) prove the exact opposite. If the argument "Microsoft was always aware that I wouldn't sell this well" is played out, it's just a desperate defensive tactic that is as simple and almost non-existent as the gameplay of Hellblade II.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
- A small group of people did. Hellblade 1 was never a breakout hit.
- But it worked because Hellblade 1 was also a small indie game. It didn't have a budget of more than $100 million, which HB2 would easily have.
- Hellblade 1 worked (kind of) because it was the first time. Hellblade 2 doesn't work because it's a 1:1 repeat telecast of the previous game, with no structural improvements or expansions.
- What's the point of Microsoft's acquisition and war chest if Ninja Theory still makes the same game that they did when they were independent and strapped of funds?
CityHunter1981
Member
According to Microsoft themselves Game Pass is supposed to also increase software sales.
Also even if the game would be really popular in game pass, Microsoft don’t care because they don’t get more money from game pass if a game is popular or not. Sure some people might subscribe to game pass just for Hellblade 2, but I would assume the number is very small and Microsoft has no way to measure how many subscriptions are because of a certain game.
Kataploom
Gold Member
I can see how this argument is on point, yet common sense takes you to realize it was always a stupid statement, now are we trusting Phil words? Lol.You tell me:
Phil Spencer: Game Pass leads to more game sales
This past weekend's X018 event was, arguably, a two-hour long advertisement for Game Pass, and given what Microsoft gam…
...But you all are basing your complaints on pure speculation. You should go and play something, I was told videogames are good as distraction, so you don't suffer others doing something you hate or whatever.
I actually wanted the game to be the way it is, except maybe 3 hours longer or so to develop more into the giants narrative, I really liked it, if I wanted gameplay complexity I wouldn't look into western AAA anyway lol.
It's a different type of experience and it's ok to have options.
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
What speculation? We're talking about what should have been, based on how sequels normally go - bigger and better.
Sure, it may be exactly how you wanted it to be, but you also gotta agree that the game has failed disastrously because of the way it is.
If the game had been expanded and improved structurally, it could have performed better. At the moment, it has become one of the biggest bombs of all time.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Exactly. People praising the "simplicity" of the game, pretending as if it's a strong point.
In reality, the game plays like this:
It's not simplicity. It's shallowness.
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JCreasy
Member
Exactly. People praising the "simplicity" of the game, pretending as if it's a strong point.
In reality, the game plays like this:
It's not simplicity. It's shallowness.
Anemic.
I love graphics. I love THIS game’s graphics.
That doesn’t solve uninspired gameplay.
Daneel Elijah
Gold Member
Sorry if my negativity got to you. I can understand as I felt the same when peoole talked against Death Stranding, who was one of the best gaming experiences I ever had.
It does not change my opinion on Gamempass impact on Hellblade 2, that I consider to not be a really good one.
Darkness_Arises
Member
The weird defense points brought up about this game never cease to amuse me. "It is a breath of fresh air amid bloated AAA games", this is pure nonsense, nobody asked for this breath of fresh air. How is a game with almost 50% cutscenes and QTE style gameplay not bloated. I want better gameplay from western devs not wannabe movies. The major problems that I have with Sony games is a protagonist/companion who doesn't shut up and long protracted cut scenes, this game doubles down on these while having none of good gameplay systems that those games have.Exactly. People praising the "simplicity" of the game, pretending as if it's a strong point.
In reality, the game plays like this:
It's not simplicity. It's shallowness.
digoutyoursoul
Member
Kind of shows what a piss poor job their shills have done, again. It’s not working fellas.
Vroadstar
Gold Member
After the initial Wow graphics factor, it is truly a cerebral feast for those who cherish the fine art of playing braindead games.
Kataploom
Gold Member
In terms of sales, yeah, it probably did poorly, but in terms of what Microsoft really wanted from the game, nobody can know unless Microsoft talks publicly about it so calling it a failure because of Steam sales is very misleading imo
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FewRope
Member
Not really, Microsoft closing Tango when they just released a game that actually had conversation about it long before the initial release rises valid concerns about the fate of Ninja Theory and the sales (or "engagement") of Hellblade 2
Kerotan
Member
Yeah Sony be like plenty of other games we'd rather you port first.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
No, actually we know.
Game Pass subscription has stalled and isn't growing. A 6-hour game could do nothing for engagement.
That leaves only revenue from game sales. Since we know that GP users don't buy games, that only leaves Steam sales, and they have been downright awful.
Microsoft wanted the game to sell a lot of copies and generate millions in revenue, and that hasn't happened. That's why they sold the game on Steam (outside of GP) in the first place. So, yes, we can very confidently say that the game has failed.
Besides, who can trust Xbox's words after they denied Hi-Fi Rush being a failure, called it a "breakout hit in all key measurements and expectations", and then shutter the studio because the game had indeed flopped lol.
Kataploom
Gold Member
I don't see anything the way you see it, so I'll cut it here. The sequel is great for many people, it doesn't have to reinvent itself or something, it's in a style that goes well with expectations considering what is known about the franchise so far and it's ok some don't like it, you don't have to like it for it to be good, if that was the case then assassin's Creed is a horrible game just because I don't like it but things don't work that way.
If the game failed or not, only Microsoft knows it.
CityHunter1981
Member
I also remember many articles praising HiFi Rush as the game Xbox exactly needs right now. I don’t remember anyone saying Hellblade 2 is a game Xbox needs right now…
GymWolf
Gold Member
you don't need to dogde in this game or dodge and attack are the same button?Exactly. People praising the "simplicity" of the game, pretending as if it's a strong point.
In reality, the game plays like this:
It's not simplicity. It's shallowness.
FewRope
Member
The game was forgotten the very same day it released
Kataploom
Gold Member
And that's why I say it's just a lot of speculation, nevermind, I'll cover, you're right,, I'll just move on, HB2 release really made toys war even more annoying
jm89
Member
And they shut down tango who imo have a better track record then ninja theory.
Run for the hills people who work at ninja theory.
demigod
Member
Are you trying to tell us the 2 games with a higher peak in Hi-Fi Rush and Redfall didn’t flop and only microsoft knows?
The game won’t even be top 10 in NPD.
CityHunter1981
Member
Except sales, we can also see a general expectations when it comes to games between Sony and Microsoft.
Sony would probably consider a first party game with a metacritic of under 86% as a huge flop. I don’t know what Microsoft expects from their big first party titles, but if a 81 is a reason for celebrating, something is not right.
Sony would probably consider a first party game with a metacritic of under 86% as a huge flop. I don’t know what Microsoft expects from their big first party titles, but if a 81 is a reason for celebrating, something is not right.
Dodge exists but it's not particularly necessary. Fights are primarily won by block counters or the super-meter filling up.
I mean it's basically an FMV game, but I don't think that's an issue in of itself.
Plenty of great narrative experiences that had 'shallow' gameplay mechanics in the past.
But I'll grant you this didn't feel like one - much like a certain PS4 exclusive, it only succeeded on presentation for me.
Angry_Megalodon
Gold Member
Stellar Blade is a massive hit being 81 after a vile review bombing. MC is not an objective metric for anything in the current climate of rampant console and culture wars. It's players who decide what flops or succeeds.
Hellblade has "failed" because the studio took 5-6 years to produce a game that should have been made in half that time. Besides, the formula in the first game wears off fast, it doesn't make sense that it gets a sequel or even worse, becomes a "saga". There is no story or gameplay to justify it. They made a sequel only because they had no idea about what to do next so they went the easy route and still took an outrageous amount of time.
From a business perspective, Hellblade 2 shouldn¡t have existed. It's good that some people enjoy it, as others would enjoy The Order 1987 but unless the sequels improve the original formula, they are pointless.
DarkBatman
SBI’s Employee of the Year
Naturally. And Microsoft will of course not communicate commercial success publicly, but will keep successes and failures secret.
But I'm sure fantastic engagement numbers will be released in a week or two because 10 million+ people watched the launch trailer out of the corner of their eye or something-somthing Gamepass.
ahtlas7
Member
Press X to win. GOTYExactly. People praising the "simplicity" of the game, pretending as if it's a strong point.
In reality, the game plays like this:
It's not simplicity. It's shallowness.
phaedrus
Member
chromatic9
Member
It's not the type of game to light up Steam or the PC crowd, console is supposed to do the heavy lifting here and MS do need some games to make up the game pass content so even if it is low sales, if game pass subscribers are checking it out and feel happy about the varied content then HB2 has done its job.
I think more people understand the game pass ceiling but this game is within the ceiling of subscribers. MS will always need a certain amount of games to fill up game pass, the tricky part is do you put heavy hitters on and lose those sales, how much can you increase the subs to allow and higher level of game on there, MS won't be continuing to put big loss leaders on. Game pass is great for older games and some indie or AA games projects like HB2.
I think more people understand the game pass ceiling but this game is within the ceiling of subscribers. MS will always need a certain amount of games to fill up game pass, the tricky part is do you put heavy hitters on and lose those sales, how much can you increase the subs to allow and higher level of game on there, MS won't be continuing to put big loss leaders on. Game pass is great for older games and some indie or AA games projects like HB2.
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DarkBatman
SBI’s Employee of the Year
This would make sense if Hellblade II's development time hadn't been so long. All of the things you presented as "Microsoft's goal for Gamepass" were ultimately achieved by Redfall and Hi-Fi RUSH. But that doesn't seem to have even remotely impressed Microsoft, as the two studios responsible were subsequently closed.
It's sad that games like Hellblade II are preached by the Xbox community before release as "a GOTY candidate" and when they turn out to be a gaming and commercial flops after release, they're suddenly just Gamepass fodder. But hey, at least LEGENDS like Klobrille gave the game a 10/10 for the first time in their “careers”. Things that Microsoft celebrates loudly on Twitter/X - but at the end of the day they only look at the $$$ and will sooner or later draw consequences from failures.
BlueLyria
Member
Are we sure they were expecting this?
They also thought Redfall would be a hit scoring several points higher