I know that's what is said but it isn't always what's done in practice, especially over the past few console cycles. There are plenty of Nintendo titles where you can tell that they hit a wall in technology in being able to represent an art style to its fullest potential.
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Here are some issues I have with the Switch launch for us to politely discuss
- Thread starter Spy
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I know that's what is said but it isn't always what's done in practice, especially over the past few console cycles. There are plenty of Nintendo titles where you can tell that they hit a wall in technology in being able to represent an art style to its fullest potential.
A problem for who?
Have you invented a new battery technology you could have given to Nintendo? One could complain about the screen quality but people are silly if they think the resolution should have been higher, the things battery would die in a hour or less, I have written the numerous problems with the device but the resolution itself is not one considering they already packed the best battery they could in the system.
Well the whole tablet form costs more. Look at the prices of Ipad minis and Android tablets and those have less powerful Gpu. You can't have PS4 level of graphics in a tablet form and expect it to costs less than $300.
Indies and japanese games, like the 3DS library? Honestly, I don't expect many AAA western support (neither ports from old games, but some of them would be nice play just for the portable aspect). I know S-E is a japanese company, but FF XV is a game running in a proprietary engine, I don't expect the game reach to Switch. KH3 would be nice, I hope Switch receive a port even if it's a bit later.
The Switch is a handheld device, right now is not feasible or cheap create a handheld withe PS4 specs (maybe in 3-4 years). Even if is marketed as a console, this is only true in the Western. The shift in the narrative will change when the 3DS ends its life, or a Pokémon is announced. Whatever happen first.
Actually 20,000 million units would be nice. I don't expect the actual Switch reach 3DS numbers, but at least sell a lot more than Wii U and Game Cube.
Nintendo, when it comes to parents and families choosing a games console to buy this Xmas.
Here is what is holding me off of grabbing one currently:
Price, after you add in the cost of a pro controller, storage, it's quite an expensive console.
Games, having a Wii u, there is nothing in the launch window worth the price of admission.
I'm thinking I'll grab one down the line after a few quirks are worked out and an advanced version is released with a few games and proper system storage in a couple of years.
Price, after you add in the cost of a pro controller, storage, it's quite an expensive console.
Games, having a Wii u, there is nothing in the launch window worth the price of admission.
I'm thinking I'll grab one down the line after a few quirks are worked out and an advanced version is released with a few games and proper system storage in a couple of years.
It would be even better if they launched in 2018, or 2019, or 2020.
Nintendo is a major corporation and they must bring in revenue and satisfy shareholders, whether we like it or not.
Jubenhimer
Member
Underpowered hardware is fine as long as it's good enough for what you intend to do with it. The Wii and Switch, were/are as powerful as Nintendo needed them to be. But the Wii U just wasn't good, even for what Nintendo wanted to do with it, but that was more due to the architecture used than the actual power. Specs are important, but far too many gamers overestimate how important the actual power of the machine is. In cases like this, simply having a good architecture and chipset matters a lot more than the raw power of the machine.
Dark-Cloudz
Member
There are SO MANY THINGS WRONG with this console - inconceivably bad decisions and rushed software...
BUT Oh my word - I love it. It's like a flawed genius.
BUT Oh my word - I love it. It's like a flawed genius.
I'd say a lack of third party support is a much bigger problem here. That said, the problem is about as big as the PS4 not being portable, meaning they have to get another system for travel.
If we use this logic of new devices having to match current devices price, all console would be free by now.
It makes no sense. It's not a like for like product and expecting it to cost the same or less than the 4 year old competition is just silly.
UltimaPooh
Member
Outside of Zelda being the greatest thing ever since Zelda... The Switch does look really lack luster... A lot of issues need to be ironed out and things sorted... It's so crazy that the company that made BOTW also made the Switch with its archaic friends codes still in place.
Glad I still have my Wii U to enjoy Nintendo's magnum opus.
Glad I still have my Wii U to enjoy Nintendo's magnum opus.
Roufianos
Member
That's true, but I was kinda hoping they'd take the Gameboy/GBC approach and make the main unit a bit cheaper while making more money off of the accessories and games being a bit more pricey than usual.
I feel like shipping the Switch without the base, making it completely optional, and charging $250 for the Switch instead would of been perfect, but the base is a mainstay for their marketing and promotion, so I dunno.
Always-honest
Banned
That art deserves better image quality imo.
And tech is holding the artists back. That's always the case of course, but in extreme for Nintendo.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
Like tablets and phones?
I thought he was going to mention an elusive cohort of core gamers that don't have a primary means to play games.
I like my Switch but is pretty frustrating how backwards Nintendo is.
Their OS choices (saves, voice chat etc.) feel like they are 10 years behind the competition.
For the promise of a console (which is why i bought it) this thing is criminally underpowered and it's pretty disappointing not even zelda runs at a stable framerate.
In short it's the typical Nintendo console. Great games but very disappointing hardware design
Their OS choices (saves, voice chat etc.) feel like they are 10 years behind the competition.
For the promise of a console (which is why i bought it) this thing is criminally underpowered and it's pretty disappointing not even zelda runs at a stable framerate.
In short it's the typical Nintendo console. Great games but very disappointing hardware design
ninjas?
You don't mean standby do you? You mean total power off?
Yeah quite a few electronic devices have total power off by using the power button like my 3DS, iPhone, iPad, televisions. My Mac can do total power off with a command though.
While "failed" may be a too strong of a term, I do agree with the OP that the Switch experience currently is hampered by lots of small and bigger niggles, oversights and problems.
I'd even add the following:
- no headphone jack on any of the controllers, not even the expensive pro controller (to allow for silent playing on TV, not even voice chat).
- no way to power down the system remotely, only sleep mode.
- syncing issues with lef joy-con due when putting the system behind a tv or next to other devices (which should be acceptable).
I'd even add the following:
- no headphone jack on any of the controllers, not even the expensive pro controller (to allow for silent playing on TV, not even voice chat).
- no way to power down the system remotely, only sleep mode.
- syncing issues with lef joy-con due when putting the system behind a tv or next to other devices (which should be acceptable).
JayBabay
Member
I have a Switch on the way, I don't know why it hasn't shipped yet (bought from Costco) but the Pro Controller should be here early next week. The points that the OP made are very valid and fair. I don't understand how, with multiple validated instances of these issues reported that people still choose to shy away from these issues. "I'm loving my Switch" is fine, but does that excuse attention from being brought onto the legitimate issues that have been presented? I was there through the Dualshock 4 controller issues with the rubber wearing off prematurely or the questioning of the build quality because the console rocked if pressed down on it at the top right corner. The controller issue has yet to affect me through years of using the controller but I accept that some people have different protocols to how they use and expect their devices to handle that use.
People, in those threads and these, that automatically attack the OP for attempting to bring these issues to light, either in one topic, or a culmination topic of all issues, are in the wrong. Right now it's the Switch that is suffering from those issues and they are more important to an enthusiast community. If you want to preface your reluctance in accepting those issues as trivial, than calmly state that you understand people are having issues but they don't bother you, even if it happens to you down the line or that it doesn't detract from your enjoyment. Maybe I'm OCD, I buy something once and maintain it like new expecting that I'm protecting something that is perfect when I buy it and I do my best to keep it in the most pristine state throughout my ownership. No one should have to worry about having inferior controller when they inevitably revise them in the near future; no one should have to be extra worried with how they dock or remove controllers from the console when its docked. We should have the best version of the console when we choose to support it from the getgo for one game. Which, yes, does apply to the majority of us.
People, in those threads and these, that automatically attack the OP for attempting to bring these issues to light, either in one topic, or a culmination topic of all issues, are in the wrong. Right now it's the Switch that is suffering from those issues and they are more important to an enthusiast community. If you want to preface your reluctance in accepting those issues as trivial, than calmly state that you understand people are having issues but they don't bother you, even if it happens to you down the line or that it doesn't detract from your enjoyment. Maybe I'm OCD, I buy something once and maintain it like new expecting that I'm protecting something that is perfect when I buy it and I do my best to keep it in the most pristine state throughout my ownership. No one should have to worry about having inferior controller when they inevitably revise them in the near future; no one should have to be extra worried with how they dock or remove controllers from the console when its docked. We should have the best version of the console when we choose to support it from the getgo for one game. Which, yes, does apply to the majority of us.
captainraincoat
Banned
picked up my switch last week...my only main issue is the complete lack of games ...its pretty much zelda or nothing....mario kart being 1 month later i really dont get but i guess we will wait and see
going to be interesting to see the splatoon beta in a couple of weeks
going to be interesting to see the splatoon beta in a couple of weeks
dealer-
Member
All valid points OP and hard to argue with. I have to say I don't mind the barebones UI. It's nice to have a console you can just turn on and play. No signing in, no profile, no achievements. Very old school. I can see why that would be a turn off for many though.
Yeah this is nothing new. You couldn't even access storage management and delete games when the Xbox One launched.
Yeah this is nothing new. You couldn't even access storage management and delete games when the Xbox One launched.
Sad thing is Mario Kart 8 Deluxe isn't 1 month away, it's technically 2 months away. The Switch came out on March 3 and Mario Kart 8 Deluxe comes out at the very end of April on the 28th.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
O ok, thanks for the enlightened chat.
All characters come out the woodwork since 3rd march
neurosisxeno
Member
Of course I meant Nintendo. We're talking about the merits and failures of their newly released device. It's not good business to offer a much lower value than your competitors. Yes I know it's portable, but so are smart phones, and as defenders of the App have said basically everyone has one anyway!
People on GAF are either apathetic towards Nintendo or support them vehemently. Ever notice a new topic for every conceivable question pertaining to Nintendo products and only a handful for Sony and MS products?
billythemule
Member
Spekkeh was being deliberately obtuse. His question really shouldn't have merited an answer.
Not really weighing in either way, but is one good launch game and a second good game almost a year later supposed to be impressive somehow?
Nintendo are really pushing Zelda. They have confidence that this game can move hardware on it's own and I think they want people to get the full experience before Mario Kart comes out and inevitably dominates people's playtime. It would be a shame for such an amazing game to be drowned out by a Mario Kart re-release.
Right, because ARMS, Splatoon 2, Fire Emblem Warriors, Xenoblade 2, etc do not exist.
I agree.
They do two different things.
Sigh. I see you got this NeoGAF 'argumentation style' down well for a junior.
No I wasn't. The point is that to argue the price of an extra game will have a significant effect on people choosing a PS4 over a Switch, means to argue there is a significant cohort of people who have neither and will let the price of a single game determine their purchase choice. I will argue this cohort is comparatively tiny.
Nestunt
Member
You know that does not mean anything right? What it counts is consumer perception and the post you quoted is what consumer perceives. Nintendo should have had that in consideration when evaluating before investment and how to position that same investment on the market.
If management and marketing were only defined by sales and costs everyone would be successful. You simply would have to do the math.
It's an odd one with Mario Kart 8.
It's what I'm waiting for despite playing a decent amount of it on Wii U. It's a classic multiplayer game for a system that supports and encourages multiplayer right out of the box (which to a degree is unique these days). It's also one of Nintendo's most transcending IP's in terms of reaching out beyond the usual gaming demographics.
I think I realise why it isn't at launch (Zelda and MK day 1 would cannibalise literally everything else) but it still feels like a misfire. Mario Kart on this machine makes so much sense it completely sells itself.
Succinct Verbosity
Member
Yeah. I don't know. I fully realise there are plenty of things missing on the is level, but I guess it's hard to care with Zelda and Snipperclippers.
As somebody that a gaming pc, the idea behind a switch is much more compelling than a stationary, underpowered console. The first thing I did was unplug my Xbox One, and in part it's because I came to the realisation that Sony are servicing a certain market well, while just another home console is just going to seem, well, dull and uneccisery to most people.
I doubt the casual market sees it that way.
And how much more expensive?
Sure. However, the consumer could perceive it as a gaming tablet that is it cheaper than an Ipad mini with controllers and connect to a TV. I'm still not sure how the mass market would react to it.
Revolutionary
Member
Another OS complaint I noticed is the fact that there are no more splash screens when you boot up a game. It's a relatively minor thing but the generic "Nintendo Switch" splash screen looks amateurish compared to the parchment and music when you boot up the Wii U version of Zelda
neurosisxeno
Member
I'm not arguing just the game prices, you can get an X1 or PS4 with 1-3 games for $250 at any point in time. Compared to $300 for a Switch by itself. Add on to that that the game to get is Zelda--at $60--and most people say the Pro Controller is a must own--at what, $70?--the actual cost of investing in the platform is over $400. Outside of that there's a handful of other games and a bunch of expensive accessories. Compare that to the PS4 and X1, where you have a quite sizeable library of games, cheaper accessories, and a lower overall barrier to entry. Plus you're basically chosing between if you want to play Zelda on the go, or have a game console that doubles as a media center.
I just don't feel like there's enough value in the Switch. And that's a problem for Nintendo because I feel the number of people that want a portable system that can play Zelda is massively outweighed by the number of people who would rather play GTA and stream TV Shows.
It's a well thought out and reasonable OP.
I like the Switch so far, IMO it's Nintendo's best hardware they've ever made alongside NDSi. I want it to be successful but I do agree with the issues raised in the OP. Particularly with the OS + games. Everything feels so bare bones (not necessarily a bad thing - but where's the apps, why no streepass? why no activity log? why the fuck are friend codes still used!?
Like others have said: it feels like a soft launch. There shouldn't be an excuse for it, especially since they seemingly stopped developing Wii U games two years ago, what are all their developers doing?!
The only developer that's impressed me with their turnover time is Monolith Software, Xenoblade Chroncles X released in 2015, they've supported numerous other developers with other projects and shown Xenoblade 2 for switch, which looks quite far along. What have Retro Studios done since early 2014? Where is Pikmin 4?
I would have expected Pokemon and Monster Hunter announcements to really give the machine a solid base, but they've not bothered to tell anyone yet. Similarly SE has done a better job pushing DQXI on Switch when Nintendo seems to keep telling them to hush it before the initial reveal, and then doesn't even bother to bring SE up on stage or really show any sort of partnership/ support with them...
I want to know that when I buy a Switch it'll have a library like the DS and not end up like another Wii U - Start announcing things Nintendo - make it feel like a proper console and less like an experiment.
I don't particularly care for the Joycons, I feel they've attempted to do too much with them - a jack of all trades master of none.
I'm going to need a d-pad at some point & I would have preferred 3DS sliders for better portability - I'm terrified of breaking the analogue sticks due to them being so exposed, same issue I had with the Vita.
There's a IR camera sensor thing on the bottom of the right joycon, I assume to mimick a wii remote? When will that ever be used? Nintendo always manages to put too much stuff in their consoles, never simplifies (when did we use the IR port on the 3DS? It has WiFi!)
Finally, they're much too small to be ever used as 2 separate controllers - it's just not comfortable.
I would have preferred focus on comfort and portability - maybe a revision at some point.
I like the Switch so far, IMO it's Nintendo's best hardware they've ever made alongside NDSi. I want it to be successful but I do agree with the issues raised in the OP. Particularly with the OS + games. Everything feels so bare bones (not necessarily a bad thing - but where's the apps, why no streepass? why no activity log? why the fuck are friend codes still used!?
Like others have said: it feels like a soft launch. There shouldn't be an excuse for it, especially since they seemingly stopped developing Wii U games two years ago, what are all their developers doing?!
The only developer that's impressed me with their turnover time is Monolith Software, Xenoblade Chroncles X released in 2015, they've supported numerous other developers with other projects and shown Xenoblade 2 for switch, which looks quite far along. What have Retro Studios done since early 2014? Where is Pikmin 4?
I would have expected Pokemon and Monster Hunter announcements to really give the machine a solid base, but they've not bothered to tell anyone yet. Similarly SE has done a better job pushing DQXI on Switch when Nintendo seems to keep telling them to hush it before the initial reveal, and then doesn't even bother to bring SE up on stage or really show any sort of partnership/ support with them...
I want to know that when I buy a Switch it'll have a library like the DS and not end up like another Wii U - Start announcing things Nintendo - make it feel like a proper console and less like an experiment.
I don't particularly care for the Joycons, I feel they've attempted to do too much with them - a jack of all trades master of none.
I'm going to need a d-pad at some point & I would have preferred 3DS sliders for better portability - I'm terrified of breaking the analogue sticks due to them being so exposed, same issue I had with the Vita.
There's a IR camera sensor thing on the bottom of the right joycon, I assume to mimick a wii remote? When will that ever be used? Nintendo always manages to put too much stuff in their consoles, never simplifies (when did we use the IR port on the 3DS? It has WiFi!)
Finally, they're much too small to be ever used as 2 separate controllers - it's just not comfortable.
I would have preferred focus on comfort and portability - maybe a revision at some point.