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[Nestunt]

Sure. However, the consumer could perceive it as a gaming tablet that is it cheaper than an Ipad mini with controllers and connect to a TV. I'm still not sure how the mass market would react to it.

Sure! I agree with you when that front. We have to wait. Consumers' perceptions are volatile, that's why it's so difficult to manage a business like this.

But I would argue that: 1- Parents who are used to buy portable Nintendo consoles for their kids will find this a tad bit expensive; 2- Adults who want a new console will find this a tad bit expensive when comparing to the other more powerful consoles.

Those are the immediate comparisons I see consumers making. But word of mouth and shared experiences with people who bought the Switch may turn those perceptions to something close to what you described. That's what happened to the Wii: it was not compared to other consoles.

 

[Majmun]

Like tablets and phones?

Or their 3DS or even Vita...

Switch's portability factor is being overvalued.

Don't think portability is one of the major requirements when people want to buy a home console...

 

[Spiritwalker]

I love my Switch, but it's certainly a rushed and flawed product in many ways. They need to fix the technical issues ASAP, otherwise they'll have a PR disaster on their hands.

Switch needed more time in the oven.

 

[tensuke]

Mandatory systemic achievements still aren't an industry standard - and never should be - no matter how much you love achievements or keep declaring how they are

Considering they're pretty ubiquitous on PS4/Xbone/Vita/Steam, even Origin/Uplay have their own versions, and iOS/Android have them as well, plus many games include them on their own without a specific standard, I'd say they ARE an industry standard. Nintendo is really the last holdout, and no matter how much you may dislike them, it won't change that they exist almost everywhere, and a LOT of gamers would like them on Nintendo platforms.

edit: and I don't see why there's so much hate thrown at the op for just making this topic, I think these things should be discussed, and probably better a separate thread than each in their own thread. That's not to say that this thread exists to just bully Nintendo, obviously there's a lot right with the Switch, but there are a lot of problems and some of it really just feels like Nintendo being out of touch with consumer needs and wants these days.

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

I mean I'm not the biggest Nintendo fan but I was kinda curious, after this thread I am completely put off. Sounds like a disaster and a headache I do not want.

Also the cost of everything is a joke.

Bought a wii u at launch and that was a mistake too. Never again.

This thread is typical Gaf hyperbole. There is nothing on the Switch that strikes me is breaking a purchase other than the number of games. If you want a multi media device then this is not the system for you, but given the battery life is anyone really planning on using Netflix with this?

 

[Mezoly]

Sure! I agree with you when that front. We have to wait. Consumers' perceptions are volatile, that's why it's so difficult to manage a business like this.

But I would argue that: 1- Parents who are used to buy portable Nintendo consoles for their kids will find this a tad bit expensive; 2- Adults who want a new console will find this a tad bit expensive when comparing to the other more powerful consoles.

Those are the immediate comparisons I see consumers making. But word of mouth and shared experiences with people who bought the Switch may turn those perceptions to something close to what you described. That's what happened to the Wii: it was not compared to other consoles.

Yeah I think they just might out priced the Handheld and Console market by making it a hybrid.

 

[billythemule]

Sigh. I see you got this NeoGAF 'argumentation style' down well for a junior.

No I wasn't. The point is that to argue the price of an extra game will have a significant effect on people choosing a PS4 over a Switch, means to argue there is a significant cohort of people who have neither and will let the price of a single game determine their purchase choice. I will argue this cohort is comparatively tiny.

Okay, but your question was too vague and doesn't really convey this argument at all. If you want to point out me for being a junior, try not to post something befitting one yourself.

This is about value proposition for customers who don't own either system, as implied by neurosisxeno. If you compare the two systems, their games and their prices, Nintendo has put themselves in a tough spot.

 

[Frankfurter]

This thread is typical Gaf hyperbole. There is nothing on the Switch that strikes me is breaking a purchase other than the number of games. If you want a multi media device then this is not the system for you, but given the battery life is anyone really planning on using Netflix with this?

To be fair Switch would probably have much better battery life with Netflix than with Zelda. Maybe ~5 hours

 

[NinjaMouse]

I'm really enjoying playing Zelda on my Switch, but with as much negative agenda baked into the OP, he actually does make a few valid points. The software lineup and immediate feature set are both pretty bad. As of right now, when people ask me how I feel about the Switch, I say, "I'm enjoying it, but it's entirely unnecessary right now."

 

[Xe4]

Everything in the OP is important, but the Switch made the biggest mistake with regards to pricing.

Having a console be $50 more expensive than a significantly more powerful console is a big deal. It means the only reason anyone would get a Switch would be for the games and portability, and right now the offering of games is very weak (which is understandable given it's a new console).

Still, that means the success or failure of the switch is going to depend on how its handheld features are received, and that's a hell of a gamble.

 

[spekkeh]

I just don't feel like there's enough value in the Switch. And that's a problem for Nintendo because I feel the number of people that want a portable system that can play Zelda is massively outweighed by the number of people who would rather play GTA and stream TV Shows.

Yes. And I agree with you. It's the choice for games and features that will push someone to the left or right. And the group of core gamers that want to have GTA is much larger than the group that wants to have Zelda. But if you want to have a media center and play GTA, the Switch can cost $100 for all you care, and vice versa, if you want Zelda on the go, it being a media center and playing GTA is not particularly important. Most of the former most likely already have a PS4, so they might just be interested in only getting a Switch in the first place.

A family will either base their purchasing decision on what the kids want (GTA probably if boys, Just Dance if girls), or what the parents want (their kids) to play. $60 difference is not going to play a big role.

 

[Nozem]

What about the OP is "pretty fucking toxic", "so angry", or qualifies as "shitposting"? Pointing out issues early on, so they get possibly fixed later, doesn't seem like a bad thing. If you're talking just generally that people are negative or cynical, welcome to gaming forums. Get yourself a history lesson.

The more things change: Usenet posts from rec.games.video and more - by EmCeeGramr

Wow, this is a quote from 19 years ago (ep 11):

You gave Zelda a perfect 10 when it was full of glitches, and a low frame rate.

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

Ouch. They actually said the friend codes were gone for good?

 

[bigbaldwolf86]

Considering its price point is higher than the other 2 consoles Nintendo really needed to come out with a bang. Some will say they did this with Zelda but it's not enough for me. There are way too many missing features or issues with the Switch for me to pick one up now. Hopefully by the end of the year they can fix a lot of this stuff and make the Switch a much more enticing proposition.

 

[Sillverrr]

I will agree that the Joycons are terrible. No d-pad, and generally just too small to feel comfortable. The Switch itself is pretty darn heavy too. The original Oled Vita was about as hefty as I was willing to lug around, so I don't feel Nintendo's machine is optimal for portability.

However, I'm still using mine in portable mode, sat on a book stand that was designed for tablets as well as books. There's a slot in the wood for the charging cord, and when my Pro controller arrives, I can comfortably sit and play this thing at my desk. That's a win for me, as I'm still not having to hook it up to the TV to play games.

We all knew about the software situation going in; if you're moaning about that now, then you should have held off on your purchase. It's true that Nintendo needs to gather some kind of momentum to keep this thing going beyond Zelda, but as things stand there's not a lot of room for optimism on that front.

Given Nintendo's recent history, this thing's probably doomed. All I know for sure is that this is the best Zelda in ages, and it's amazing that I can play it on a handheld device. I WISH third parties would support Switch's potential. Over time Nintendo seems to have pissed off pretty much every developer out there, sadly.

 

[Hoo-doo]

I was pretty blown away there is no messaging between players at all, not even friends. I mean, what the fuck.

Why even have the friendslist at all then.

 

[Hasney]

I will agree that the Joycons are terrible. No d-pad, and generally just too small to feel comfortable. The Switch itself is pretty darn heavy too. The original Oled Vita was about as hefty as I was willing to lug around, so I don't feel Nintendo's machine is optimal for portability.

First time I've seen the heavy complaint. Played it as a handheld for about 12 hours yesterday and it never felt like I had to out it down due to it's weight. If I can do that, I can throw it in a bag easily.

 

[Terrorblot]

The Switch is great and will do fine. the OS is clearly in beta and while I do think that's kind of unacceptable, Nintendo is going to Nintendo.

KEEP NINTENDO WEIRD. I don't want another Playstation, I have one already.

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

Everything in the OP is important, but the Switch made the biggest mistake with regards to pricing.

Having a console be $50 more expensive than a significantly more powerful console is a big deal. It means the only reason anyone would get a Switch would be for the games and portability, and right now the offering of games is very weak (which is understandable given it's a new console).

Still, that means the success or failure of the switch is going to depend on how its handheld features are received, and that's a hell of a gamble.

Can the market even take another console exactly like the PS4 and Xbox One? I guess we'll see with the Scorpio, but I feel like if you own an Xbox One then the PS4 is pretty irrelevant and Vice Versa.

 

[cacildo]

The Switch is great and will do fine. the OS is clearly in beta and while I do think that's kind of unacceptable, Nintendo is going to Nintendo.

KEEP NINTENDO WEIRD. I don't want another Playstation, I have one already.

i hope the next OS update adds a billion small funny nintendo things to regular os actions

 

[opricnik]

Does anyone saw this? can you confirm it
i didnt see thread for it when i searched web

 

[hasidan]

I live in Denmark. Here a Switch with Zelda will set you back about 470$. And then there's the price of the pro-con and additional memory. For gamers this is maybe acceptable (I find it a bit steep to be honest) but for casual gamers - I think - this is way to expensive.
"Here is a new system with inferior graphics, a pretty limited games library that'll cost you more than the more powerfull consoles. Please buy it".
I'm really not trying to be an idiot (and I'm happy that Switch owners are loving their systems and I would also like to own one) but I do believe that the Switch will end up like the Wii U because the buyers just aren't there.
Unless you already own a PS4 or Xbox One and have your mind set on a handheld system a casual gamer is not going to buy a Switch.
Just my opinion

 

[blackjaw]

Over time Nintendo seems to have pissed off pretty much every developer out there, sadly.

Not just devs but also fans that have been around since the NES. I haven't bought a Nintendo system since the Wii and even then I only bought maybe 6-8 games for it.

Held off on Wii U and am holding out on Switch. The problems identified in this thread pretty much nail my sentiment. The console needed more time in the oven, Zelda needed more time being optimized, 3rd party needed more time to get some launch games out, etc.

Is it too much to ask for Nintendo to go back to a day where their console specs were on par with everyone else and just let innovation come from game mechanics and not hardware gimmicks? Make a console easy to program for with power equivalent to a XB1 or PS4 and devs will come.

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

For the price of a Switch, BotW, and Pro Controller, you could get a PS4 and most of the best games of the past 3 years. That's a problem.



Also pretty low resolution by modern standards, what is it 1280x720? That's lower than most smart phones.

They're not Zelda doe

 

[Bluth54]

I was pretty blown away there is no messaging between players at all, not even friends. I mean, what the fuck.

Why even have the friendslist at all then.

Once they put out the app for the online you can send messages to friends.
Not via the app of course. But by texting or calling them.

 

[Jumeira]

I was pretty blown away there is no messaging between players at all, not even friends. I mean, what the fuck.

Why even have the friendslist at all then.

Jesus, this has got to be a lie, I'd expect people to be shouting this from the rooftops. Surely its there just hidden in typical Nintendo convoluted execution, but not including at all is not true? Right?

 

[Cyanity]

It's a well thought out and reasonable OP.

I'm going to need a d-pad at some point & I would have preferred 3DS sliders for better portability - I'm terrified of breaking the analogue sticks due to them being so exposed, same issue I had with the Vita.

My days of sore, cramped thumbs from the 3DS vehemently disagree with this. Let slider style analog sticks die, please.

Jesus, this has got to be a lie, I'd expect people to be shouting this from the rooftops. Surely its there just hidden in typical Nintendo convoluted execution, but not including at all is not true? Right?

There for sure is no messaging functionality at the moment. Kind of ridiculous. Let's see how long it takes Ninty to get their software shit in line.

This thread is cringeworthy as fuck. The untouchable Nintendo and their moustached red-hat always persecuted knights.

Those "who hurt you" replies and such are the reason Nintendo keeps doing all the shit OP says - which actually, is a very good resume on Nintendo's inhability to keep up to date, standards or expectations. And the Miyamoto quote just represents that, oh the guy who could have made Halo.

Did you read past the first few pages? There are more people in this thread complaining about Pro-and anti- Nintendo fanboys than there are unreasonable pro- and anti- nintendo fanboys arguing in this thread right now.

 

[EVH]

This thread is cringeworthy as fuck. The untouchable Nintendo and their moustached red-hat always persecuted knights.

Those "who hurt you" replies and such are the reason Nintendo keeps doing all the shit OP says - which actually, is a very good resume on Nintendo's inhability to keep up to date, standards or expectations. And the Miyamoto quote just represents that, oh the guy who could have made Halo.

 

[psychowave]

I've been having zero issues with my Switch hardware wise, but I'm using it exclusively as a handheld so that could explain it. The lack of games is the most worrying aspect imo.

 

[Spladam]

What about the OP is "pretty fucking toxic", "so angry", or qualifies as "shitposting"? Pointing out issues early on, so they get possibly fixed later, doesn't seem like a bad thing. If you're talking just generally that people are negative or cynical, welcome to gaming forums. Get yourself a history lesson.

The more things change: Usenet posts from rec.games.video and more - by EmCeeGramr

God I love that thread. It's what Gaffers will look like in 10 years. Well, some of us look like that now.... but yeah, great thread.

 

[jts]

Does anyone saw this? can you confirm it
i didnt see thread for it when i searched web

I mean it's probably true. airplane mode does turn off the radios, such as bluetooth. That's the point of it.

As whether the advertising can be considered false advertising, when I fly I'm only asked to turn off or put my devices in airplane mode when taking off and when landing.

 

[rochellepaws]

It's interesting reading threads from 2012 gaf and how many similarities there are from positive impressions from early adopters towards the Wii U as there are now with the Switch. In both cases most of it is built on blind optimism towards the devices potential rather than what it is actually offering at launch.
There are a lot of passionate defenders of the product right now but I wonder how the mood will be in a few months, especially if we don't see any evidence of improved features at the system level.
It's a fair critique from the OP and one I expect will become more agreeable and common sense over time to the ones resisting it now.

 

[Spirited]

It's interesting reading threads from 2012 gaf and how many similarities there are from positive impressions from early adopters towards the Wii U as there are now with the Switch. In both cases most of it is built on blind optimism towards the devices potential rather than what it is actually offering at launch.
There are a lot of passionate defenders of the product right now but I wonder how the mood will be in a few months, especially if we don't see any evidence of improved features at the system level.
It's a fair critique from the OP and one I expect will become more agreeable and common sense over time to the ones resisting it now.

Well to be honest, you buy in for the potential on any system at launch. You would find the same kind of stuff for the ps4 and xbox one at launch, I promise you.

 

[gofreak]

There's a definite whiff of prototype off Switch at the moment.

Zelda is why I bought one, and it's certainly entertaining me. I enjoy the screen and playing on my couch without a TV, but otherwise I feel to a certain extent like I'm fighting with the hardware to one degree or another at times.

I really don't know what Switch's place is. My confidence in Nintendo's ability to steward platforms well is at an all time low. I wonder how many people who are interested in Switch didn't grow up with Nintendo. I'm a mad man - I will go out and drop 400 euros and put up with Nintendo's platform level misfires for Zelda and the spark of Mario on the horizon. How many people are there like this? Well, I digress.

 

[spekkeh]

^ I actually think a large part of Wii's 100m sales were exactly that. People who once grew up with Nintendo and lapsed out of gaming.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

Calling it failed is going too far, too soon. Sure, it's underpowered and overpriced with a lacking OS and functionality, and a pitiful lineup of games. But let's give it over Christmas before declaring it a bomba totala, shall we?

 

[jett]

Well the whole tablet form costs more. Look at the prices of Ipad minis and Android tablets and those have less powerful Gpu. You can't have PS4 level of graphics in a tablet form and expect it to costs less than $300.

You don't have PS4 level graphics in tablet form.

 

[IlGialloMondadori]

Is it worth 339€ for a switch + Zelda? I think this price is reasonable.

IMO, yes. Yeah Switch has a ways to go, but Zelda is insanely good and the system is super cool. The foundation is there.

 

[Ghgghggh]

I'm loving Zelda and I'm loving the Switch. The fundamentals of the system are sound and 2017 is offering amazing first party software and interesting Indy games.

If Nintendo can just get a browser and Netflix going and if E3 is a success by proving they have interesting third party games coming in the second half of the year then all is well.

However, I wouldn't bet on Nintendo having a strong third party showing at E3, especially Western 3rd party. I bought the Switch assuming third party games equal to what WiiU offered. I'm all in for the first party, and as long as Nintendo software is 100% consolidated for the Switch (minus phone games), than I'll be happy.

A social game like Pokémon that utilizes the portability and local multiplayer / social aspect of the Switch can really help this thing take off. I'm thinking the Pokémon game for Switch might be heavily inspired by the social and mobile aspects of Pokémon Go... (end tangent).

 

[The perfect Dark]

They haven't failed at all. System is fantastic, games are great.

 

[Dr. Buni]

Mandatory systemic achievements still aren't an industry standard - and never should be - no matter how much you love achievements or keep declaring how they are

They have been present on PC, Microsoft and Sony systems for over a decade. I would say yes, they are mandatory at this point.

 

[Chinbo37]

Man these switch threads are like Crack. I'm not getting a switch and I have no plans to get a switch. I decided I was done with Nintendo after the Wii U. (BTW some of the points of the OP including accessory prices was one of my reasons).

Anyways I don't begrudge anyone who got one. It seems really cool. But I find myself reading all these threads. Screen scratching, protection threads, everything! I am addicted lol.

 

[harriet the spy]

It will be a great console for Nintendo games and - I'm afraid - not much else. I just hope it's not a financial disaster for ninty - I want them to stick around.

Most frustrating thing for me is that since it's a great concept but not well delivered - I can't help but feel there will either be
1/ a price drop
2/ a revision
much sooner than you'd normally expect

 

[Venfayth]

As someone who has purchased a Switch and is currently having a blast with BOTW I agree with a good chunk of what the OP has said, not all of it, for example we don't know the full details of the online system yet and by the time its out the Switch landscape will be different, and the desync problems will get better if they're not already for most people (the day1 patch fixed things for me).

But really, Nintendo's latest hardware is a chimera. It is a confused beast where its obvious that when they had no idea what they were doing they decided to tout the multiple modes of play as a feature instead of trying to unify their design decisions in a smart way.

It's a little shocking to read that first page of people doing nothing but attacking the OP for his opinions and also because he felt the need to repost this thread. You Nintendo fans need to get it into your skulls that there is nothing sacred about Nintendo. They are a corporation. It is literally their legal obligation to take your money. You do nothing but harm yourselves (and them, in a way) by supporting Nintendo when they are making poor decisions. Everyone deserves a better Nintendo, but they don't need to be protected by white knight fanboys on the internet. I guess maybe they should stop making games about saving princesses?

 

[Unknown Soldier]

A problem for who?

A problem for Nintendo who are trying to convince people to buy it

 

[Skux]

It's a damn shame, because Zelda BotW is apparently amazing.

Everything else about the console seems to have been designed to lack features, be expensive, be annoying, or cost an absurd amount, all on purpose.

 

[Bluth54]

A problem for who?

For Nintendo, since anyone who's considering buying a new video game system is going to take that into account.

 

[J 0 E]

All the points mentioned in the OP are legit and proves how rushed the console is

The Switch has it's positives but negatives like this can't be ignored too.

 

[binarymelon]

It's a damn shame, because Zelda BotW is apparently amazing.

Everything else about the console seems to have been designed to lack features, be expensive, be annoying, or cost an absurd amount, all on purpose.

It can still be played on a Wii U.

 

[Plinko]

It's the best handheld ever made with bonus TV play, but I still cannot believe three things passed inspection:

1. Shoddy dock design which will scratch screen

2. Weak WiFi

3. Left joycon signal

None of these are acceptable.