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[KalBalboa]

Whatever. The game will be released and judged on its merits (hopefully) and it won't matter one bit whether it is a ripoff or a completely original game.

People who are butthurt are the ones that are complaining that it is a ripoff. Everyone knows that the game borrows liberally from the concept of SSB but you clenching your butts in protest isn't going to change the fact that it is going to be released and many people are looking forward to it and will buy it.

Very true. The beta bodes well for it in the gameplay department.

 

[Figboy79]

For the empht time, YES, i have played it. I am aware of the diferences and still I think its a rip off. Less fun at that too.

If you've played it, then I can't see how you can sit there and say the game is a rip off.

As someone who has sunk many, many hours into both SSB and PBR, I can't say, with a straight face, that they are the same in any way outside of the visual aesthetic of them being colorful mascot brawlers.

So, again, tell me, in detail, WHY you think the games are the same.

For example, I'll give you a very detailed rundown of why I think they are different:

1) Visuals. HD graphics aside, PBR doesn't have the uniformity that SSB has. The characters come from a larger, more varied pool of IPs, and so you don't have as much cohesion. That can be construed as a negative, but I personally don't mind it. Kratos, Drake, Big Daddy, PaRappa, Radec, Fat Princess, Sly, Cole, Jak, Heihachi, Toro, etc, are all visually distinct because their games are visually distinct. With Smash, many of Nintendo's prized IPs fall into the "E" for Everyone or "T" for Teen category. Many of the games are bright and colorful, so the characters just mesh better when combined. I don't see this as a negative either.

2) Controls. Smash has always felt floaty to me. I never felt the controls were terribly precise in that regard, but I'm basing this solely off of Melee, as I didn't spend a lot of time with Brawl (only played it for a short while). Despite having issues with the floatiness of the controls, I still love Melee to death, and it is one of my favorite Gamecube games. PBR does not feel floaty to me at all. In any way, shape or form. I've never felt out of control when moving around the map. I feel that both games control well, but I like the less floaty feel of PBR.

3) Gameplay mechanics. This is the big one. This is the one that sets a Half Life apart from a Call of Duty, or a Zelda apart from an Okami (and I love both Zelda and Okami dearly). PBR, at it's core, is a DIFFERENT GAME than Smash. This is an inarguable point, because it's just plain as day that they are not the same when you spend more than a few minutes with it. I don't know how much time you've spent with PBR, but I'm assuming it wasn't much. I get the impression that you touched the stick for a few rounds, then threw it down in disgust, but that's just me being presumptuous. Anyway, the Super system is just one aspect of PBR that is fundamentally different from Smash. In Smash, you can be K.O. by Smash attacks, regular attacks, and Ring Outs. In PBR, you can only be killed by Supers. This changes the game significantly. You can't just whack away at buttons, building up the enemies percentage, then land a lucky hit and send them flying (oversimplification of Smash, sure, but that style of attack is feasible).

In PBR, you have to build up a Super meter, then have the skill to execute that super (in particular, Level 1 supers, which are fairly difficult to execute). Level 2 and 3 supers make getting kills easier, but Level 2 and 3 supers also take more time and skill to build up (especially level 3's, which tend to be something you dedicate half the match to reaching).

Because building Meter is your primary goal, and killing with Supers is your ONLY method to scoring points, it forces you to approach combat very differently than you would in Smash.

In the FFA matches us beta players are involved in, each Kill and Death carries a particular importance. If I kill you twice, I get 4 points. But if you kill me twice, that takes me down to 2 points, and ties you with me, meaning that if either of us score a kill, the game could be ours (I'm ignoring the other 2 fighters for the moment, but I'll get to them shortly). Depending on how much time is left in the match, it then becomes a tense affair between me and you trying to score that kill, while keeping the other person from doing the same. As the clock ticks away, that tension only gets higher. If you land a kill within the 20 second remaining mark, beads of sweat start to dot my head because I now have 20 seconds to keep you from killing me or the other two players again (or at the same time).

So now, I'm trying to build meter as quickly as I can in 20 seconds, while avoiding potential K.Os and score reducing from the other guys.

Then you have to factor in things like successfully executing combos (which help build AP much faster than just mashing on a single attack), while avoiding enemy combos and super set ups. The "fun" comes in, if you find those kinds of shifting dynamics fun. I happen to, as well as many others.

Smash, in my opinion, has a very different focus and meta game than PBR. And I love Smash for that as well.

This is the last post I'm making in this thread, as it's clear what the intent behind this thread was from the beginning, but I just don't like seeing so much misinformation spread throughout. The fanboys are out in full force in this thread, and all it's doing is making me depressed.

As someone who grew up on Nintendo, Sega, and Sony, I don't quite get the animosity and antagonism when fun games are to be had. PBR is fun. Smash is fun. This makes me happy. I'm sorry you can't get over your raging hatred boner for Sony to see that this game, while being inspired in many ways by Smash, is carving it's own path in the same genre, and is actually doing it very well.

I was worried, when I heard about this game, that it just wouldn't be fun. PlayStation fandom aside, if the games aren't fun, then I'm just not interested. Fortunately, my worries were unfounded.

You can enjoy Smash more than PBR all you like. That's fine, but don't sit there and try to argue that it's a blatant rip off when the game play fundamentals are right there for anyone with an interest to examine and determine the truth for themselves.

EDIT: Also, it would be great if you would go into detail as to what gameplay mechanics (not just aesthetic touches), that make you so adamant that this is a "rip off."

 

[Blood Diamonds]

As a fan of PASBR, this literally makes me sick. How can this man not like a game that I like?? I mean i played it and enjoyed it so much and he hasn't!! I think this warrants an investigation in his home to see what games he has. I'm sure his manifold duties won't be disturbed too much.


........
Fuck him.

This thread is amazing because of post like this

 

[deviljho]

...

phew. i'm out.

 

[Risette]

Bayonetta is inaccessible because it has an extremely steep difficulty curve in normal difficulty - you're regularly facing enemies who can take off half your health in one hit by like the third level - and if you try to play on any easier difficulty, it changes the control scheme to basically play the game for you and become laughably boring.

It's inaccessible because it does an exceedingly poor job at easing you into any new game mechanics. It just throws shit at you, and then suddenly you're dead because you didn't figure it out in the two to three seconds it gave you to figure things out. It throws new enemies at you who can only be damaged by X attack and who damage you if you try any other attack, then doesn't even attempt to explain this to the player, so the only way to get by is by sheer trial and error. Maybe this just makes the game HARDCORE or whatever the fuck, for the people who like bashing their face against a wall until they finally figure it out by chance. It's still really inaccessible. That, combined with the utterly horrible graphics and music, are why the game flopped.

If you truly believe inaccessible games don't exist, go sit down in front of a fucking flight simulator and manually take off.

Complaining about Bayonetta's difficulty on normal? My oh my. Normal is like a tutorial mode. Sounds like you just didn't play it well. Don't blame the game for your shortcomings. The graphics are okay too, as well as the music.

Also, simulators are simulators, not games.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

Yeah I dunno calling things rip-offs in the game industry is hard because everyone is basically working inside specific themes and frameworks.

PASBR is definitely pretty borderline though IMO. And it's not just about the gameplay(which is of course slightly different. Just like gameplay is fairly different between Melee and Brawl....), but the entire project/IP in general. If you really think the top brass were not looking at Brawl and trying to imitate it in almost every way possible....I dunno what to say.

I really do feel like Sony has started to lose it's identity. I mean I have heard of projects being turned down directly from Sony execs because they are too "Nintendo-like".

Then I go to E3 and see them pushing a party brawler and a cart racer like crazy on the show floor....

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Then what the fuck do you call this garbage?

whatever it is, it's jazzy, not jpop at all

 

[IrishNinja]

Kamiya is awesome.

15 pages later, and these are my thoughts! also, niro made some good points back on page 1, but fuck that, draw your swords brave console warriors! this is all just sparring before the next cycle begins, no doubt.

This thread is everything wrong with GAF.

not everything, but it's a pretty good net, yeah.

 

[KevinCow]

Complaining about Bayonetta's difficulty on normal? My oh my. Normal is like a tutorial mode. Sounds like you just didn't play it well. Don't blame the game for your shortcomings.

lol

the "stfu ur just bad at my fav gam lol" argument

instead of actually replying to anything

for people who suck at discussing anything ever

man, ignore lists are great

The graphics are okay too, as well as the music.

no they're actually basically the worst thing ever

also on an unrelated note here's a post where pizzaroll is defending panty shots of underage girls

 

[Risette]

lol

the "stfu ur just bad at my fav gam lol" argument

instead of actually replying to anything

for people who suck at discussing anything ever

man, ignore lists are great



no they're actually basically the worst thing ever

What do you expect me to say? There's nothing else that can really be said. Bayonetta on Normal is not remotely difficult. The failure was on your end.

Maybe if it was as hard as DMC3 vanilla on normal I could understand, but it's pretty easy. But you already ignored me so whatever.

also on an unrelated note here's a post where pizzaroll is defending panty shots of underage girls

I must've really hit a nerve. I stand by that post, in any case.

 

[Lafiel]

Normal mode on Bayonetta is perfectly do'able for the average gamer. Hell if you aren't aiming for high ranks / scores, it even has check-points for every fight in a chapter! that makes it easier to play through then say DMC3 or NGB (which exclusively have save-points).

no they're actually basically the worst thing ever

The graphics are fine if you play the 360 version!

 

[Blood Diamonds]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OsFQBEZLdw

<3

 

[BeautifulMemory]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OsFQBEZLdw

<3

I have always wondered how they made that video. Did they really have motion actors dance out the routine?

 

[KevinCow]

What do you expect me to say? There's nothing else that can really be said. Bayonetta on Normal is not remotely difficult. The failure was on your end.

regular enemies who can take off literally half your life in one hit = not difficult

regular enemies who require a specific attack to damage, and the game never tells you which attack to use so you have to resort to trial and error = not bullshit

okay then

whatevs

keep playing your bullshit games

kamiya still sucks at everything except combat systems

The graphics are fine if you play the 360 version!

i played the 360 version

the main character was still a stupid looking sarah palin

the enemies were all still indecipherable messes of wings and claws

it may not have been a technical pile of shit like the ps3 version, but it was still pretty much the ugliest game i've ever played

 

[Clairvoyance]

lol

the "stfu ur just bad at my fav gam lol" argument

instead of actually replying to anything

for people who suck at discussing anything ever

man, ignore lists are great



no they're actually basically the worst thing ever

also on an unrelated note here's a post where pizzaroll is defending panty shots of underage girls

I guarantee that you are (rightfully) on more ignore lists than he is at least.

 

[Jintor]

What do you expect me to say? There's nothing else that can really be said. Bayonetta on Normal is not remotely difficult. The failure was on your end.

I can't really comment because it's been so long since I wasn't intuitively familiar with Bayonetta's combat mechanics that I can't remember what it was like to play it for the first time. I should point out that a) even Gracious and Glorious on hard difficulty can't kill you in three hits, b) in easy mode you can remove the doll item to take out the plays-for-you thing, and c) I have no idea what Cow is talking about re: enemies that can only be damaged by X attack.

 

[KevinCow]

I guarantee that you are (rightfully) on more ignore lists than he is at least.

probably

kamiya fans sure are a whiny bunch who get extremely upset at anyone who implies that he is anything but a perfect genius who makes the best games ever and is perfect at everything

 

[Lafiel]

regular enemies who can take off literally half your life in one hit = not difficult

But dodging in the game is so easy with the Witch Time mechanic....

 

[EmCeeGramr]

i knew there'd be a meltdown, but the form and factor came as a surprise

 

[Lothars]

He's wrong, I have nothing else to say about it than that.

 

[Risette]

probably

kamiya fans sure are a whiny bunch who get extremely upset at anyone who implies that he is anything but a perfect genius who makes the best games ever and is perfect at everything

Bayonetta isn't even my favorite action game this gen, lol. It's still great though.

Every heavy damaging attack in Bayonetta is telegraphed as hell -- you'd have to have vision problems to not tell they will hurt you even if you haven't been hit by it yet. And most of your "criticisms" just make no sense in general, as Jintor pointed out in his post. This is why I said you were bad at the game -- because you most definitely are.

 

[Hero]

Holy shit Kevin, you need to stop. You're just getting worse and worse with every post.

Have you ever even heard J-pop? There is so much piano in the track that I cannot believe someone just said the character theme for Bayonetta was a J-pop song.

 

[Drago]

what is happening

why is this thread still going

 

[Laughing Banana]

So how many people turning around their opinion on Kamiya due to this? Hahaha.

Also, playing Bayonetta on difficulties above Normal was totally a dope experience--a far, far better experience than any Devil May Cry games in my humble opinion.

 

[KevinCow]

Holy shit Kevin, you need to stop. You're just getting worse and worse with every post.

Have you ever even heard J-pop? There is so much piano in the track that I cannot believe someone just said the character theme for Bayonetta was a J-pop song.

so pop can't use pianos now

to be fair, i was never able to make it more than five seconds into the song before putting my tv on mute

which is great, since that song played during every single battle in the entire fucking game, so i was basically playing the whole game on mute

 

[Forever]

what is happening

why is this thread still going

That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons death may die.

 

[KevinCow]

to be fair, while kamiya is basically bad at everything, at least he's pretty good at combat systems

at least he's not like other overrated hacks like, say, hideo kojima, who has never made anything approaching a competent game ever

 

[Drago]

KevinCow I love you

also I am seriously laughing out loud at this thread. Why hasn't it been closed yet? We've gone so far off topic it isn't even funny

 

[GCX]

All of his games are pretty much DMC with a different coat of paint.

Viewtiful Joe is basically DMC in 2D.
Bayonetta is basically DMC after he couldn't make DMC anymore.
Project P-100 is basically DMC with an overhead camera and the lots of dudes gimmick.

The only exception is Okami, which, as has been established many times in this thread, is a blatant Zelda ripoff.

So it's kinda funny for him to call out anyone else for creative bankruptsy.

My god this thread makes people's brain melt.

 

[jrDev]

So um, has anyone that actually played the game posted about the similarities yet?

Btw, I am laughing so much at Kevin's posts...

 

[Risette]

so pop can't use pianos now

to be fair, i was never able to make it more than five seconds into the song before putting my tv on mute

which is great, since that song played during every single battle in the entire fucking game, so i was basically playing the whole game on mute

Maybe if you heard the audio cues in the game you would've been better at it?

 

[prwxv3]

So um, has anyone that actually played the game posted about the similarities yet?

I would go to the beta thread or the topic thread.

 

[Jintor]

That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons death may die.

Kamiya = Cthulhu?

 

[FrostuTheNinja]

It just throws shit at you, and then suddenly you're dead because you didn't figure it out in the two to three seconds it gave you to figure things out.

Sounds like DKCR...

 

[BlackJace]

Mods, admins, whomever.

Nuke this thread. Think of the children!

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

to be fair, while kamiya is basically bad at everything [...]
at least he's not like other overrated hacks like, say, hideo kojima, who has never made anything approaching a competent game ever

Dude, just stop. Like, it was cute before but now it just needs to end.

 

[Jinfash]

Oh god, oh god, this thread!

 

[ant1532]

wow he is making reggie look like a bitch

 

[Margalis]

Viewtiful Joe is basically DMC in 2D.
Bayonetta is basically DMC after he couldn't make DMC anymore.
Project P-100 is basically DMC with an overhead camera and the lots of dudes gimmick.

Why limit this to Kamiya?

Pac-Man is just DMC except top down and you eat ghosts instead of slashing them.

Tetris is just DMC except the enemies are shaped like geometric patterns and attack you by falling on you.

Starfox is just the last part of DMC 1.

F-Zero is just DMC except Dante drives a sweet hovercraft instead of fighting - also it's not actually Dante!

 

[jrDev]

I would go to the beta thread or the topic thread.

To wade through posts? I don't think so. I was just saying, with all the difference that is thrown around in this thread, I just wanted to read a post from someone defending to play devils advocate and actually list realistic on the surface similarities...

 

[IrishNinja]

what is happening

why is this thread still going

practice battles for E3 2013 must apparently be waged

 

[Bishop]

i dont see what the big deal is...
crash team racing is a 'rip off' of mario kart..and is arguably the best kart racer ever.

 

[Finaika]

It's now 1 PM in Japan and there hasn't been a single tweet from Kamiya today.

Maybe he's having lunch.

 

[KevinCow]

Dude, just stop. Like, it was cute before but now you just need to be slapped.

hey i was just trying to offer an olive branch to the kamiya fans by at least letting them know that I don't think he's as bad as someone like hideo kojima

at least kamiya had an overall positive effect on gaming since his combat systems are pretty cool and have influenced plenty of great games and just generally made melee combat more enjoyable throughout most of gaming

whereas kojima made everyone think that games should be bad movies, a misconception that continues to this day, and the influence of which directly ruined metroid, my favorite series

 

[prwxv3]

Oh god, oh god, this thread!

Just wait until the game is actually released. I expect crazy meltdowns based on reviews (my guess will end up between 70's and low 80's) and meltdowns from those that despise the games existence.

 

[Foffy]

..This got to 30 pages? I'm scared to imagine what composes pages 2 to 29. Sure, it looks like a ripoff, but it best to not say it absolutely is until it comes out. Then we can say for certain.

 

[Urvan]

It's a rip off and you know better Sony fan boys, it's not even a good rip off from what I saw there's a barely any strategy involved in this game,they ripped off the worst side of Smash the thing that plagued brawl competitiveness (atleast you can disable it on brawl) and made it into the main mechanic of the game, I'm talking about the "Supers" and they didn't rip off the good part, they didn't copy the knock out, in a way they wanted to make it unique, but what they did is just like taking the cover of SSBB and scratching off (Super Smash Bros. Brawl) and put (PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale) on top of it with crayons and tape Kratos picture with a bunch Play station characters. Only fan boys will deny the fact that it's a rip off, but even if it was. Why is it a bad Rip off? Why did they add a stupid system that ruins the fun of the game ? Did they think by putting such stupid system will magically make their game original ? atleast if you want to copy a game do it right, because most of the people aren't blind from the truth that PSABR is a SSB. clone, so changing the game's system is like buying a cake for your kid's birth day from the bakery and add some cream on top of it and say to your kid "Mommy made this cake for you" but we all know that you bought that cake from the bakery, and the kid knows that but he didn't want to make his mom look like a liar.

 

[prwxv3]

It's a rip off and you know better Sony fan boys, it's not even a good rip off from what I saw there's a barely any strategy involved in this game,they ripped off the worst side of Smash the thing that plagued brawl competitiveness (atleast you can disable it on brawl) and made it into the main mechanic of the game, I'm talking about the "Supers" and they didn't rip off the good part, they didn't copy the knock out, in a way they wanted to make it unique, but what they did is just like taking the cover of SSBB and scratching off (Super Smash Bros. Brawl) and put (PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale) on top of it with crayons and tape Kratos picture with a bunch Play station characters. Only fan boys will deny the fact that it's a rip off, but even if it was. Why is it a bad Rip off? Why did they add a stupid system that ruins the fun of the game ? Did they think by putting such stupid system will magically make their game original ? atleast if you want to copy a game do it right, because most of the people aren't blind from the truth that PSABR is a SSB. clone, so changing the game's system is like buying a cake for your kid's birth day from the bakery and add some cream on top of it and say to your kid "Mommy made this cake for you" but we all know that you bought that cake from the bakery, and the kid knows that but he didn't want to make his mom to look like a liar.

bisonyes.gif

 

[KevinCow]

Why limit this to Kamiya?

Pac-Man is just DMC except top down and you eat ghosts instead of slashing them.

Tetris is just DMC except the enemies are shaped like geometric patterns and attack you by falling on you.

Starfox is just the last part of DMC 1.

F-Zero is just DMC except Dante drives a sweet hovercraft instead of fighting - also it's not actually Dante!

you might have something resembling a point if any of those were combo-based character action games with some sort of enemy juggling system and buttons that are mapped out wrong

 

[EmCeeGramr]

It's a rip off and you know better Sony fan boys, it's not even a good rip off from what I saw there's a barely any strategy involved in this game,they ripped off the worst side of Smash the thing that plagued brawl competitiveness (atleast you can disable it on brawl) and made it into the main mechanic of the game, I'm talking about the "Supers" and they didn't rip off the good part, they didn't copy the knock out, in a way they wanted to make it unique, but what they did is just like taking the cover of SSBB and scratching off (Super Smash Bros. Brawl) and put (PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale) on top of it with crayons and tape Kratos picture with a bunch Play station characters. Only fan boys will deny the fact that it's a rip off, but even if it was. Why is it a bad Rip off? Why did they add a stupid system that ruins the fun of the game ? Did they think by putting such stupid system will magically make their game original ? atleast if you want to copy a game do it right, because most of the people aren't blind from the truth that PSABR is a SSB. clone, so changing the game's system is like buying a cake for your kid's birth day from the bakery and add some cream on top of it and say to your kid "Mommy made this cake for you" but we all know that you bought that cake from the bakery, and the kid knows that but he didn't want to make his mom to look like a liar.