Support NeoGAF

[AmaterasuOni]

Thanks for the answers. Ok i guess I get their point of view. I just hope for them SO is a hit though..

I've played the demo and it was fun... but if the game is only that what the demo had to offer, then the game will get very, very dull quite fast.

Also all the video previews have been kinda harsh with the game. Saying the same as I: shooting, stupid jokes, more shooting, do the same kind of missions over and over again, shoot, shoot, a bit of a laugh and that's it.

Metacritic: low 70s (if there's no funding involved). Guns are fun.

 

[Damerman]

this is the meaning of art.

 

[CamHostage]

In any case, I like the "Lost in Concept" video format. It's a fun way to dive into the material, and although there's a lot of this talk out there from the pundit period of the changeover, the post-mortem approach is welcome. The voice is a little bit bitter but not know-it-all or snarky, I recommend you keep that generally-objective voice wherever you can as you have a concept that can be presented in an interesting way without kicking us in the nuts or getting us all riled up over dust in the process.

I'm not sure how many games you're actually going to have as much to say something about as Overstrike (and you've boxed yourself in a corner with that title considering a number of games that switched courses in development changed for the better, like Borderlands and arguably Zelda Wind Waker,) but there are certainly stories out there. Good luck to you.

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

Really good and informative video OP. Congrats.

Overstrike looked so good its a pity we probably never going to see it.
Im liking a lot what they are doing with Sunset, good to see at least they knew the did wrong.
If it was EA fault, something we are never going to discover from their mouth until the day they don't want to do videogames anymore, studios will know in the future they are not reliable for any projects.

 

[LaserHawk]

I've seen focus tests destroy beautiful things. It's really depressing.

 

[Kssio_Aug]

I've played the demo and it was fun... but if the game is only that what the demo had to offer, then the game will get very, very dull quite fast.

Also all the video previews have been kinda harsh with the game. Saying the same as I: shooting, stupid jokes, more shooting, do the same kind of missions over and over again, shoot, shoot, a bit of a laugh and that's it.

Metacritic: low 70s (if there's no funding involved). Guns are fun.

Sorry, but which are those "all" previews who were harsh with the game?
Gametrailers had really positive impressions, and I've seen plenty of other really good impressions out there!

 

[Queen of Hunting]

to be honest i think sunset is more of where they wanted to go, or atleast making fuse/overstrike sprang some ideas for how to do sunset.

 

[SolidSnakex]

 

[Carbonox]

I forgot Fuse was a thing, thanks for the reminder.

Good shit.

 

[Calabi]

Genius!

I cant see how focus testing ever works out to be a good thing(maybe very rarely it does). People who want to give there opinion always have shit opinions.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Damn Fine Coffee

Damn Fine Coffee

Damn Fine Coffee

Oh well, at least we got some hilarious photochoppin' out of this Gen 7 Dogma trainwreck.

 

[Interface23]

I've seen focus tests destroy beautiful things. It's really depressing.

Like any hope of getting Nanashi No Game last gen, that was pretty upsetting.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Like any hope of getting Nanashi No Game last gen, that was pretty upsetting.

Just looked that up

"At GDC 2006, I saw a presentation on a horror FPS game. When I saw this I thought the first person format was a great fit for horror," Tokita said as he reminisced about the creation of Nanashi no Game. "I wanted to do it on the DS because even though it was small we could deliver something high quality and also very scary. If I didn’t come to GDC, the idea would have never come to pass."

"We talked to a focus group and they thought it wasn’t good for the market, so we didn’t do it," Tokita replied. "Maybe as a downloadable title it’s possible." I was surprised since Japanese and Korean horror movies were on the rise, so I asked Tokita to elaborate. "The opinion was you couldn’t shoot anything. Maybe we shouldn’t have been too concerned about it."

http://www.siliconera.com/2011/03/2...red-for-north-america-focus-groups-killed-it/

 

[Mobile Suit Gooch]

Not at all. Into the Nexus tore A Crack in Time a new one. The latter had a great story, but the weakest weapons out of all the mainstream Ratchet games. ItN had a short and sweet story, better visuals (art direction was amazing), better gimmick weapons, and standard weapons that took inspiration from Deadlocked (the game with the best weapons, bar none). ItN's only failure was framerate, but that still wasn't enough for me to not place it head and shoulders above ACiT.

I feel the opposite...

 

[Archaix]

The video was well done (and I learned exactly how boring and grrrrrrrrr angry dark the game became, because like the rest of the world I stopped paying attention before release) but you did misinterpret the quote about the focus groups. The example was older children/teens/whever (with the mindset of an 8 year old) complaining about the game looking like it was made for 12 year olds, not quoting actual 12 year olds.

 

[inky]

I don't know if Overstrike would've done good or not. I sure as hell could've told them FUSE was going to bomb from the first time I saw it, to the trailers and even the cover art reveal. And I did plenty of times. The "focus groups" discussion was always misrepresented on GAF, but I think they did in fact learn the wrong lessons from it regardless. I'd already written Insomniac off when I saw (and especially when I read interviews on) Outernauts anyway; their lame attempt at capturing the dying facebook audience. I lost a lot of respect for them after that. Learning about FUSE later on just put the last nail in the coffin for me.

I wish Insomniac good luck, but I'm not buying an XBONE, and I just don't like them as a dev anymore.

 

[cleveridea]

Sorry, but which are those "all" previews who were harsh with the game?
Gametrailers had really positive impressions, and I've seen plenty of other really good impressions out there!

Yeah rev3games gave a best of show award at E3 from tara which really got me interested at the time

This game was the one that made me buy the xbox one (I already wanted dead rising 3 and Ryse). I typically want at least 3 must have games to buy a console.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Not at all. Into the Nexus tore A Crack in Time a new one. The latter had a great story, but the weakest weapons out of all the mainstream Ratchet games. ItN had a short and sweet story, better visuals (art direction was amazing), better gimmick weapons, and standard weapons that took inspiration from Deadlocked (the game with the best weapons, bar none). ItN's only failure was framerate, but that still wasn't enough for me to not place it head and shoulders above ACiT.

Are you high, bro?

That's literally the opposite of reality.

Nothing about ITN tore ACiT a new one. Literally nothing. Everything in ACiT was leagues better than anything in ITN.

 

[Maintenance]

I would've bought Overstrike, Fuse was bland, boring and soulless.

That headless cover was the icing on the cake, so many good parodies came out of that.

 

[Haunted]

This is a good video, well done OP.

I remember the GAF thread when the change in direction became obvious, basically everyone predicted the game to bomb with its attempt to woo those 12 year olds. Not that that was a particularly impressive feat. Its eventual failure was clear as day from the second they showed the new direction. Really, really poor decision making on their part.

Came and went, just like that. Nobody remembers it, it didn't appear in any of the year end review shows, just... nothing. Absolutely disappointing for those who were interested after that first trailer.

I almost fist pumped in real life.

 

[WinFonda]

Insomniac better do some changes in their managment cause these past few years has been nothing but mistakes.
- Fuse
- Last R & C not as good as before
- Exclusivity deal for SO with the console that sold less

How could you forget the Resistance debacle. I've never seen a franchise suffer so much of an identity crisis in the pursuit of mainstream acceptance. What's more surprising is that they apparently learned nothing from their mistakes on R2 going by Fuse. At the time, I wrote Resistance 2 off as an uncharacteristic misstep for Insomniac, but playing Fuse just cemented the idea that Insomniac isn't a top tier developer anymore. Fuse is basically one of those crappy licensed games that gets rushed out the door to tie in with a movie, except it doesn't have the license going for it. And Resistance 2 was the same story. They're all over the place.

 

[Shift Gorden]

Great vid, mate.

As the owner of a marketing research agency I'd tend to somewhat side with the above screenshot in this instance.

Focus groups about creative direction are a terrible idea...and then throwing kids into the mix is even worse.

There is certainly room for focus group research within the gaming industry and groups with kids but if you ask folk for their opinions about style/creativity and base direction solely off that then the research is doomed. You're making subjective research even subjectier (new word).

Of course, I have no idea exactly what and how they tested the groups.

I swear there was an awesome Simpsons episode where they focus tested something with kids...and the results where hilarious.

 

[Haunted]

The video was well done (and I learned exactly how boring and grrrrrrrrr angry dark the game became, because like the rest of the world I stopped paying attention before release) but you did misinterpret the quote about the focus groups. The example was older children/teens/whever (with the mindset of an 8 year old) complaining about the game looking like it was made for 12 year olds, not quoting actual 12 year olds.

Hm, are you sure about that?

The direct quote is "We started to discover that everyone thought this was a game for their younger brother. We would hear this from 12-year-olds."

Seems fairly clear to me.

 

[BruiserBear]

Cerny is great, but he just oversaw the production of Knack.

 

[Archaix]

Hm, are you sure about that?

The direct quote is "We started to discover that everyone thought this was a game for their younger brother. We would hear this from 12-year-olds."

Seems fairly clear to me.

I might be making it up, but I at least thought I remembered reading in one of the many "Oh my god, Fuse is going to be a total disaster" threads that they didn't actually focus test their M Rated game on 12 year olds but meant the people they did use thought it was intended for 12 year olds.

I don't care either way, because the people they were listening to are clearly the sort of person whose opinion should never be asked.

edit: And misunderstood was definitely the wrong word choice, it would be more that the person giving the interview misspoke assuming my memory is correct.

edit 2: Might be misremembering, the defense of that quote (and it's absolutely hilarious that anybody could even start to defend it) was that the game was more cartoonish and stylized before the initial reveal, that the focus grouping happened to a previous version which then became Overstrike, which then got a 2 for 1 lobotomy/neutering special and we got Fuse. Unless they came out again later and tried to spin the spin, I guess we can blame 12 year olds and the executives who get paid to listen to ideas from people who haven't yet hit puberty.

 

[Reallink]

I have to imagine game focus groups (especially at that time) would tell you nothing but the kids like their military men shooting stuff with guns in gray/brown environments. I don't even know why they bothered, or better yet, who thought it was a good idea to do one.

 

[UrbanRats]

I don't think the original idea was that cool, original or interesting, but the FUSE characters' backstories in the video are so try hard, that they become hilarious.

Either way, i think Insomniac are better off focusing on Sunset Overdrive, it's a much better franchise to spend their time on, than even what Overstrike looked like.

 

[HyperBitHero]

I'm not sure how many games you're actually going to have as much to say something about as Overstrike (and you've boxed yourself in a corner with that title considering a number of games that switched courses in development changed for the better, like Borderlands and arguably Zelda Wind Waker,) but there are certainly stories out there. Good luck to you.

I don't think "Lost in Concept" is an inherently negative title. Like, I have those games on my list of games to do. I'm not just going to cover games that changed for the worse.

 

[Icyflamez96]

Not at all. Into the Nexus tore A Crack in Time a new one. The latter had a great story, but the weakest weapons out of all the mainstream Ratchet games. ItN had a short and sweet story, better visuals (art direction was amazing), better gimmick weapons, and standard weapons that took inspiration from Deadlocked (the game with the best weapons, bar none). ItN's only failure was framerate, but that still wasn't enough for me to not place it head and shoulders above ACiT.

Well this is new

 

[Glass Rebel]

Nice video, OP. You got yourself a subscriber.

Fuse is probably one of the most cynic examples of AAA development. I'm glad that Sunset Overdrive looks way closer to what Insomniac is more comfortable with.

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

Insomniac better do some changes in their managment cause these past few years has been nothing but mistakes.
- Fuse
- Last R & C not as good as before
- Exclusivity deal for SO with the console that sold less

SO is not a mistake. They wanted to make an IP and own the rights. Microsoft gave them a better deal. Your qualifier as to why that was a mistake is unfair.

 

[LaneDS]

Nice idea for a video series. I hope you'll consider doing one for Destiny, as that game is ripe for it.

 

[Stilton Disco]

Very enjoyable video. I look forward to more!

Real shame about Overstrike, so much potential, turned into generic grimdark shot bangs number eight million and one.

Hopefully SO will be a success. Also that it or a sequel come to the PS4, so I can, you know, play it.

 

[Lijik]

Not at all. Into the Nexus tore A Crack in Time a new one. The latter had a great story, but the weakest weapons out of all the mainstream Ratchet games. ItN had a short and sweet story, better visuals (art direction was amazing), better gimmick weapons, and standard weapons that took inspiration from Deadlocked (the game with the best weapons, bar none). ItN's only failure was framerate, but that still wasn't enough for me to not place it head and shoulders above ACiT.

Maybe if it was a full length game. I certainly was having more fun with ItN than CiT when i got all of the traversal abilities- but thats the problem. After Ratchet gets all tricked out the game is basically over. It felt like the first half of a really great game instead of a complete experience.

 

[abrack08]

I actually was in one of the focus groups for Overstrike. I'm not sure what I'm allowed to share, but the game is already out... I'll just say it was disappointing but not surprising to see the shift in direction based on what everyone except me was saying in my group. It basically all boiled down to "I like Call of Duty/Battlefield and this looks like it's for babies"

I played the demo, I actually kind of liked the game based on that. I bought the full game recently on PSN when it was on sale, I will still try it out some time.

 

[Azure Dream]

That was a pretty good video, I didn't expect to actually watch the whole thing.

Heck, that Kamiya quote everyone is quoting is at the end of the video.

I actually was in one of the focus groups for Overstrike. I'm not sure what I'm allowed to share, but the game is already out... I'll just say it was disappointing but not surprising to see the shift in direction based on what everyone except me was saying in my group. It basically all boiled down to "I like Call of Duty/Battlefield and this looks like it's for babies"

You tried, at least, and that's appreciated. It was their mistake to chase an industry trend that was already being played out, even if EA or another company may have insisted they do.

 

[AgentOtaku]

Great stuff man, seriously!

Also, between the darker tone they took in this and the upcoming Sunset Overdrive, I'm wondering the the hell is going on over at Insomniac's creative department. Seriously, this shit is just unnecessarily dark and ugly just for seemingly the sake of being.... well dark and edgy.It's super unappealing, not because it's just dark mind you (or it isn't Ratchet or something) but because it's just delivered in such a generic, poor way.I never knew about the whole detective burning the criminals in the car and... yeah, umm, WTF!?

 

[SavoyPrime]

I was really interested in Overstrike. When it got repackaged as Fuse and that first trailer released, I instantly lost all interest in it.

 

[Htown]

Ugh at Ted Price blaming people for making "assumptions" based on what THEY put out there to represent the game.

 

[HyperBitHero]

I actually was in one of the focus groups for Overstrike. I'm not sure what I'm allowed to share, but the game is already out... I'll just say it was disappointing but not surprising to see the shift in direction based on what everyone except me was saying in my group. It basically all boiled down to "I like Call of Duty/Battlefield and this looks like it's for babies"

I played the demo, I actually kind of liked the game based on that. I bought the full game recently on PSN when it was on sale, I will still try it out some time.

Whoa. Very cool to hear your perspective on this. Are you able to share anything about the game mechanically?

 

[Dragonborn]

I still want to play Overstrike. Good thing it seems Insomniac learned a lot from the Fuse debacle.

 

[Haunted]

I might be making it up, but I at least thought I remembered reading in one of the many "Oh my god, Fuse is going to be a total disaster" threads that they didn't actually focus test their M Rated game on 12 year olds but meant the people they did use thought it was intended for 12 year olds.

I don't care either way, because the people they were listening to are clearly the sort of person whose opinion should never be asked.

edit: And misunderstood was definitely the wrong word choice, it would be more that the person giving the interview misspoke assuming my memory is correct.

edit 2: Might be misremembering, the defense of that quote (and it's absolutely hilarious that anybody could even start to defend it) was that the game was more cartoonish and stylized before the initial reveal, that the focus grouping happened to a previous version which then became Overstrike, which then got a 2 for 1 lobotomy/neutering special and we got Fuse. Unless they came out again later and tried to spin the spin, I guess we can blame 12 year olds and the executives who get paid to listen to ideas from people who haven't yet hit puberty.

You've summed it up well - either way, they listened to the wrong people and everyone is worse off as a result. The publisher who lost his money, the developer who botched a potentially successful new IP and lost audience goodwill, the audience who looked forward to Overstrike and instead got Fuse... fuck, even the 12 year olds they asked lost out because the abomination they helped create ended up getting an M rating. :lol

Really, just terrible decision-making all around.

 

[Shin-Ra]

Insomniac stuff looks most appealing to me when it's the least-human looking characters in naturalistic environments. Trouble is even the animal-like characters usually have a Dreamworks-like cheese to them.

 

[ShinMaruku]

This man is one of my heroes. I love troll creators.

 

[Xater]

Focus groups sure seem to be a great way to suck out all the fun of your game.

 

[HK-47]

Valve games are focus tested to hell and back. Sometimes they stick to their guns, a lot of times they go "Oh, weird, I thought this made sense but it seems most people don't like this."

Sometimes, like in the case of Portal 2, a focus test will show a player really wants to do something and they think it's a cool idea and will implement it.

I remember people complaining about how focus tested Portal 2 felt, specifically the long tutorial.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

I remember people complaining about how focus tested Portal 2 felt, specifically the long tutorial.

Portal 1 is 90% tutorial

and IDK there might be a difference between focustesting and playtesting. The way valve talks in their commentaries, kinda feels like they got people hooked up like lab rats taking data. "mmhmm, mmhmm, yes. Ok, we'll put a puzzle there 70% of players are feeling a bit fatigued from the combat. Ok, half of the players aren't seeing the object we want them to see, lets put some birds on the left side of the screen who fly into the light towards the right and catch the players ears and eyes."

 

[Shin-Ra]

These are the best character designs I could find from their previous-gen stuff.

Sigmund more for his character than appearance.

 

[zoozilla]

Portal 1 is 90% tutorial

and IDK there might be a difference between focustesting and playtesting. The way valve talks in their commentaries, kinda feels like they got people hooked up like lab rats taking data. "mmhmm, mmhmm, yes. Ok, we'll put a puzzle there 70% of players are feeling a bit fatigued from the combat. Ok, half of the players aren't seeing the object we want them to see, lets put some birds on the left side of the screen who fly into the light towards the right and catch the players ears and eyes."

I think the difference between "Let's make sure the players do what we want them to do" and "Let's just give them what they want" is a key one.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

I actually was in one of the focus groups for Overstrike. I'm not sure what I'm allowed to share, but the game is already out... I'll just say it was disappointing but not surprising to see the shift in direction based on what everyone except me was saying in my group. It basically all boiled down to "I like Call of Duty/Battlefield and this looks like it's for babies"

I played the demo, I actually kind of liked the game based on that. I bought the full game recently on PSN when it was on sale, I will still try it out some time.

Heh. Did they give you guff over this (the other members)?