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[LurkerPrime]

This is a very interesting video series. Thanks for sharing, OP... and making it(?)!

I think there are probably valid uses for focus testing, but using it to doggedly chase a specific market is not one of them. Instead of upending the development tea table in the hope of success, developers should double down on their vision and trust in their own skills. While such reverent use of focus testing will certainly make a safe game, it won't make a memorable one... And in this day and age, simply being remembered is half the battle.

 

[Majukun]

yeah,focus testing is bullshit..mainly because poeple don't know what they want,but just assume that they want the same thing they had until now

 

[SmoothRunningGun]

The hate for fuse is ridiculous. The story and characters were bad but the gameplay was good especially in coop. Gameplay over everything.

 

[TheOddOne]

OP, you should check the Sunset Overdrive Q&A from a while back. They really stick it to EA in that video.

 

[abadguy]

Wonder if focus testers accused it of being "hipster" or "trying too hard".

 

[HyperBitHero]

These are the best character designs I could find from their previous-gen stuff.

Robotics are definitely a highlight of Insomniac's designs. The concept of that undercover android from the CGI trailer was really cool. Wish that carried over to Fuse at the very least.

 

[SykoTech]

Nice video, OP. This one still stings. Really like Insomniac and the Incredibles-like vibe Overstrike was giving off looked right up my alley.

But then...FUSE.

Oh well, still have Ratchet & Clank at least.

 

[Jawmuncher]

The hate for fuse is ridiculous. The story and characters were bad but the gameplay was good especially in coop. Gameplay over everything.

Yep it really was a very fun game.

 

[DiscoJer]

I swear there was an awesome Simpsons episode where they focus tested something with kids...and the results where hilarious.

So, you want a realistic, down-to-earth show... that's completely off-the-wall and swarming with magic robots?

Ironically, that was the show that introduced Poochie the dog to Itchy & Scratchy, which I've seen someone compare their new game to.

Because at least in the commercial I've seen for it, that's how it comes across

 

[Apathy]

I think the bigger issue there with the focus testing was why are you letting kids that could not even buy the game legally determine how it would end up? Why the hell does a 12 year old get a say to a mature game if that is what they were going for? And yes I know these are rhetorical questions since CoD sells huge with younger kids cause their parents are idiots.

 

[Ri'Orius]

yeah,focus testing is bullshit..mainly because poeple don't know what they want,but just assume that they want the same thing they had until now

They may not know what they want, but they certainly know what they like after playing it. Apparently they didn't like Overstrike.

It sounds like the real issue was that Insomniac was trying to go for the big pond: the Call of Duty audience. And they just weren't up to the task. Perhaps Overstrike would have sold more than Fuse did, but it wouldn't have hit their target.

They tried to shoot the moon and came up short. Happens to the best of us.

 

[HiddenForbiddenHolyGround]

I remember all this. Lots of people wanted to make EA out to be the bad guy in this but I just don't think that was the case here. Same deal as people trying to blame Activision for all of Destiny's faults rather than Bungie, or my friend blaming Activision for Legend of Korra. Just blind hate at the big corporate machine.

Anyway I really don't understand all the fuss about the art direction change. Sure the initial reveal looked different from most of the shooters out there but to me it was just ugly and unnatractive. Not that every TPS needs to look realistic or I don't like a cartoony look I just found the particular original look Fuse had ugly.

Presumably the gameplay concept didn't change much if this was mostly an artstyle change so I don't understand comments about the change ruining the game if it would have played the same. If it's cartoony and different it's automatically interesting and a great loss to lose, but if its in a generic realistic style then its automatically souless and bland? That's just silly. But HyperBit touches on that.

I thought the final product was really great, especially fun in co op. After I finished it with my friend I was really hoping for the sequel that Insmoniac didn't rule out but at this point they probably just abandonded it like Resistance. It's not surprising it wasn't a big seller, TPS are a dime a dozen and need a lot behind them to stand out. I really doubt having the original artsyle would have impacted sales much positively or negatively.

HyperBitHero, its a really great video, you speak well and have a soothing voice, but I can't agree with some of the assumptions you make towards the end. I find it hard to believe there were that many people interested in the game in the first place who then gave up on it because of the change. I also hadn't seen that quote from Price before and I thought about it and really he's right. Fuse certainly isn't the first game to change dramatically after a first reveal. Lastly focus groups and design by committee may water something down and bland it up, and overusing them would be a poor idea but they are a tool and they do serve a purpose. Were there more people who would have been interested in Fuse's old style than in the new one in the current industry? I doubt it and that would have been Insomniacs chief concern at the time. I can't really blame them for going where they did with it.

 

[bobbytkc]

At least Resistance 3 was a positive blip on the radar.

Not sales wise.

In any case, I hope Insomniac will go on to do big things.

 

[Apath]

Insomniac better do some changes in their managment cause these past few years has been nothing but mistakes.
- Fuse
- Last R & C not as good as before
- Exclusivity deal for SO with the console that sold less

So just like last generation?

 

[abrack08]

Whoa. Very cool to hear your perspective on this. Are you able to share anything about the game mechanically?

No, it was too early for anything like that. They literally showed us the E3 trailer (after it had been shown at E3) and asked our opinions on the characters, art style, tone, what we thought the gameplay should be based on the trailer. That was a majority of it.

They did show some super super super early gameplay (we didn't get to play, just a video of someone else playing. Not even a live demonstration), but no one really understood that it was like... pre-pre-alpha and kept critiquing it like a finished product. Honestly, there was so little of it I barely remember.

I don't even remember specific examples of things other people said, but I do remember I was the only one like "HELL YEAH IT FEELS LIKE THE INCREDIBLES LET'S DO THIS!" when everyone else said they wanted it to be more serious.

Heh. Did they give you guff over this (the other members)?

Nah, I've done a few of these and everyone is always really respectful of others' opinions (or at least keeps quiet even if they want to mock someone, haha)

 

[Sydle]

I was excited for the initial concept, but I stopped paying attention after the re-reveal because the tone of it wasn't something I was interested in playing.

I'm really glad they're making what they want with SO. Hope it does well.

 

[Phocks]

I like the touch of Shadow the Hedgehog music the drive home the edgy, Hyper.

 

[Metroidvania]

I'm almost certain that a lot of the original vision for Fuse, at least tonally and artistically was re-purposed into Sunset Overdrive.

I know this has been quoted several times, but holy shit.

Obviously it's probably limited in what's been 'lifted', but damn if it isn't an interesting theory.

edit: Also, lol @ Lily Bergamo appearance.

 

[nynt9]

They thing is they wanted to own the IP completely and MS let them. but is it really a smart choice? I dunno myself , maybe it is... I just think that sales wise Insomniac isn't as relevant as before but maybe i'm wrong

It's definitely a conundrum, would you rather own the IP but be limited to half the install base, or not own the IP but have a much broader install base? Of course at their time they didn't know this would be the case.

 

[Gaogaogao]

they fucked up

 

[Little Nemo]

Great video. I played Fuse co-op with some friends and family and thought it was pretty fun. Setting and characters were pretty generic though. It did have some good bits of humor which I appreciated. I think the others and I who played it would have greatly preferred the original incarnation though.

I think focus testing can be very helpful in product development, but you have to know the right way to do it and the right questions to ask. Focus testing done poorly will end up making a mess of your game. I'd put money on EA pushing the final style of the game based on their focus testing and marketing research.

 

[Kai Dracon]

The impression I get is that focus testing is good for a sanity check on your product after you've decided on a creative direction and begun refining it. But many companies do it wrong by trying to use focus testing to tell them what to make in the first place, rather than coming up with their own ideas after analyzing the market.

This seems like an especially bad idea in games since big games can take 2-3 years to reach market. If you bow to the whims of a focus group early on, by the time your game ships the fad of the season may be over.

 

[ALLseeingEYE]

Sadly, my impression was that Overstrike didn't look that appealing, and that the game just fell under the radar, big time. There was no hype for it, even after the announcement, which is likely why EA funded a complete overhaul.

I think it would have been a better game, and thus sold better than Fuse. Its hard to say whether it would have done great otherwise, making Fuse certainly wasn't the right answer. EA partner games often fall under the radar with weak promotion.

I think Sunset overdrive is the true culmination of the lessons learned by Insomniac over this. It's crazy, cartoony, creative, and looks like it really fits in with the Xbox crowd. Hopefully that one does well.

 

[HyperBitHero]

Not sales wise.

In any case, I hope Insomniac will go on to do big things.

R3 didn't sell well? Huh. Well, it was sort of in a weird place in the series, coming off R2, and was very different from the previous games in the series thematically. Hopefully SO can be a quality product AND sell well, then.

I like the touch of Shadow the Hedgehog music the drive home the edgy, Hyper.

I'm glad someone noticed, haha.

 

[IDKAboutThat]

The only good focus testing is Valve's

 

[Valkrai]

R3 didn't sell well? Huh. Well, it was sort of in a weird place in the series, coming off R2, and was very different from the previous games in the series thematically. Hopefully SO can be a quality product AND sell well, then.



I'm glad someone noticed, haha.

I also noticed the Shadow music in there, really seemed to fit.

This was a great video, as someone who was interested in Fuse the redesign really pissed me off and depressed me with the industry. However, this is a bit of a coincidence as I was discussing with someone about what Fuse was and Overstrike.

Shared this on twitter and following you on youtube, would love to see more content like this.

 

[HyperBitHero]

No, it was too early for anything like that. They literally showed us the E3 trailer (after it had been shown at E3) and asked our opinions on the characters, art style, tone, what we thought the gameplay should be based on the trailer. That was a majority of it.

They did show some super super super early gameplay (we didn't get to play, just a video of someone else playing. Not even a live demonstration), but no one really understood that it was like... pre-pre-alpha and kept critiquing it like a finished product. Honestly, there was so little of it I barely remember.

I don't even remember specific examples of things other people said, but I do remember I was the only one like "HELL YEAH IT FEELS LIKE THE INCREDIBLES LET'S DO THIS!" when everyone else said they wanted it to be more serious.


Nah, I've done a few of these and everyone is always really respectful of others' opinions (or at least keeps quiet even if they want to mock someone, haha)

Well, cool to hear your experience nonetheless.

 

[Auto-Reply]

Somehow I always wanted to play that game, even after the style-change... wish there was a pc version of it then I'd add it to the list.

 

[Drencrom]

The only good focus testing is Valve's

They're definitely not perfect...

 

[DD]

 

[NingenJanai]

If you are not careful with focus testing you might end with something like this:

 

[eso76]

Not the hero the industry deserves, but the hero the industry needs.

 

[Slixshot]

I enjoyed this video.

 

[HyperBitHero]

Another one of my favorite quotes. Simple and to the point. I'll have to use it if I ever do something Ninja Gaiden related.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

No, it was too early for anything like that. They literally showed us the E3 trailer (after it had been shown at E3) and asked our opinions on the characters, art style, tone, what we thought the gameplay should be based on the trailer. That was a majority of it.

They did show some super super super early gameplay (we didn't get to play, just a video of someone else playing. Not even a live demonstration), but no one really understood that it was like... pre-pre-alpha and kept critiquing it like a finished product. Honestly, there was so little of it I barely remember.

I don't even remember specific examples of things other people said, but I do remember I was the only one like "HELL YEAH IT FEELS LIKE THE INCREDIBLES LET'S DO THIS!" when everyone else said they wanted it to be more serious.


Nah, I've done a few of these and everyone is always really respectful of others' opinions (or at least keeps quiet even if they want to mock someone, haha)

Oh good. That would've been real rough to be the one guy in that situation going against the flow.

 

[HyperBitHero]

Oh good. That would've been real rough to be the one guy in that situation going against the flow.

I'd feel bad knowing what I was saying wouldn't hold as much weight as what everyone else was saying, being just one voice and all.

 

[Z3M0G]

Sorry for the necro bump, but I was considering making a new thread:

Perhaps Insomniac should take another shot at Overstrike

Then I did a search, found this thread, watched the video, and realized that it would have been rather redundant...

My original thread was going to use the following points:

- BO3 campaign is making me miss playing FUSE, flawed game, but was FUN with friends! ...for a short while... until you quickly max out your skill tree and there is no reason to keep playing...
- return to original Overstrike concept, artstyle, and original characters
- don't pretend Fuse never happened, but rather learn from its mistakes!
- Larger skill tree
- Less focus on the specific weapons (FUSE was a bad idea to stick to)
- Let the scientist character be the creator of advanced tech, not Alien Magic
- Crafting system for gear, collect materials and allow the Scientist character to create new stuff or upgrade current gear (rather than using Loot drops and end up just being a Destiny clone)

But... the more I thought about the concept, the more I realize that it would be a nightmare to make this game stand out now against games such as Destiny... and there is still The Division, which I bet is a nightmare to get to market right now as well...

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

I think Insomniac was better off with their original concept. Maybe the game would have turned out better...

It couldn't have come out much worse though. inSomniac needs to step up though. I can't believe Naughty Dog was at the same level as them during the PS2 era, and now look at both teams.

 

[zma1013]

I can only assume a lot of focus testing is the reason why a game like Mad Max has zero faith in players and just says and does everything for them. I can't even be allowed to scout a camp with binoculars on my own without dozens of icons littering the screen telling me exactly what everything is.

 

[Dremark]

At least Resistance 3 was a positive blip on the radar.

Not really, the multiplayer for that game was complete trash and shouldn't have even been released in the state it was in. Not really sure why it gets a free pass on that.

 

[Dremark]

It couldn't have come out much worse though. inSomniac needs to step up though. I can't believe Naughty Dog was at the same level as them during the PS2 era, and now look at both teams.

I'm probably more critical of Insomniac than most but to be honest the largest part of why there's such a huge difference where ND and them are is because ND stepped it up big time.

Insomniac has been shaky at points but I'd still say they're a pretty solid dev.

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

I'm probably more critical of Insomniac than most but to be honest the largest part of why there's such a huge difference where ND and them are is because ND stepped it up big time.

Insomniac has been shaky at points but I'd still say they're a pretty solid dev.

ND and inSomniac were some of the best devs during PS1 era. Crash was top tier and loved by many, that's why it's still the best selling digital classic game every month. PS2 era, they were both really great. I feel like inSomniac has dropped off their quality during last gen and ND just raised it up a bit more.

 

[Dremark]

ND and inSomniac were some of the best devs during PS1 era. Crash was top tier and loved by many, that's why it's still the best selling digital classic game every month. PS2 era, they were both really great. I feel like inSomniac has dropped off their quality during last gen and ND just raised it up a bit more.

I think the level of acclaim ND has gotten has skyrocketed last gen, although I don't mean this as a shot at thier previous work or even that the newer games are nessarily better than the older ones. TLOU and Uncharted have become two of the absolute biggest franchises on PlayStation.

Insomniac had some missteps last gen, particularly Fuse and the Resistance sequels. Resistance 2 was thier chance to run with the ball and really make a name for themselves like ND ended up doing with Uncharted 2 but they dropped the ball on that like no one's business.

IMO they are still a solid dev, some aspects of Resistance 3 were good, I hear SO is great but I have no Xbone. I don't feel they've bottomed out or even moved down a ton but I'd like to see them get back where they were and then reach new heights.

 

[80s Bad Guy]

focus testing is the death of creativity.

 

[Spoony Bob]

I remember watching the overstrike trailer and thinking how great the tone was and that the characters looked like great fun. It was a huge letdown when I realized later they had gutted the parts I was actually interested in to make a space marine shooter. I never gave fuse another look, but I'm probably not the demographic the publisher wanted to hit in the first place.

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

I think the level of acclaim ND has gotten has skyrocketed last gen, although I don't mean this as a shot at thier previous work or even that the newer games are nessarily better than the older ones. TLOU and Uncharted have become two of the absolute biggest franchises on PlayStation.

Insomniac had some missteps last gen, particularly Fuse and the Resistance sequels. Resistance 2 was thier chance to run with the ball and really make a name for themselves like ND ended up doing with Uncharted 2 but they dropped the ball on that like no one's business.

IMO they are still a solid dev, some aspects of Resistance 3 were good, I hear SO is great but I have no Xbone. I don't feel they've bottomed out or even moved down a ton but I'd like to see them get back where they were and then reach new heights.

I would say they range between very good to great dev, with a very thin line inbetween. Curious to see how R&C pans out before I decide which side to put them on. ND on the other hand is the best dev in the industry, with only Rockstar being at their playing field.

 

[HyperBitHero]

Not really, the multiplayer for that game was complete trash and shouldn't have even been released in the state it was in. Not really sure why it gets a free pass on that.

I never played the multiplayer. Wait, yes I did. There was a beta before it came out. I don't know...wasn't very interesting, I guess.

 

[RocketRacoon]

Anyone who thnkis the change to Fuse it what made this game a failure is delusional. Absolutely no-one was checking for it when it was Overstrike.

Just because it looked colourful and silly doesn't mean it was more creative or creative at all. Those aren't the same thing.

 

[Garlador]

Sometimes a necro-bump is needed to remind us never to forget the mistakes of the past.

... I STILL want THIS game.

Ironically enough, Overwatch is on my radar for the same reasons that Overstrike originally was: so many colorful, charming characters, great humor, and lighthearted fun.

Overstrike could have really been something special. I'm still utterly baffled at just how badly, how INSANELY misguided, the focus testing of that game stripped it of any and all charm, wit, humor, and appeal. I've never seen a game go through so drastic a downgrade from concept to execution.

 

[HyperBitHero]

Sometimes a necro-bump is needed to remind us never to forget the mistakes of the past.

... I STILL want THIS game.

Ironically enough, Overwatch is on my radar for the same reasons that Overstrike originally was: so many colorful, charming characters, great humor, and lighthearted fun.


Overstrike could have really been something special. I'm still utterly baffled at just how badly, how INSANELY misguided, the focus testing of that game stripped it of any and all charm, wit, humor, and appeal. I've never seen a game go through so drastic a downgrade from concept to execution.

Exactly. How times have changed. They must be kicking themselves for this, because they could have been leading the trend that shooters seem to be going down lately.