sometimes ignorance is bliss. when i watch an American movie with a Chinese actor who speaks bad Cantonese, it ruined the film for me. so i understand from that viewpoint.
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I don't get "undubs"
- Thread starter Deft Beck
- Start date
sometimes ignorance is bliss. when i watch an American movie with a Chinese actor who speaks bad Cantonese, it ruined the film for me. so i understand from that viewpoint.
Of course there are exceptions but generally i feel it's pretty much true.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
Same for me. At the very least GIVE ME THE OPTION. It's like the old dub vs sub debates back in the earlier anime releases. Then technology finally showed up and gave us both in one package.
Games should do the same. The capacity is there.
I'm okay with dubs most of the time, at least with dubs of today. If it's bad, I pin it more on the original material than the translation or acting skills. I think some people automatically prefer Japanese, or the original language, because it masks how bad the source material is.
Pretty much. The whole discussion should have been made obsolete by technology around a decade ago.
nowadays, it's this whole licensing thing with Japanese VAs which is why many Japanese VO and/or theme songs don't come out here after being localized. this is why getting dual audio games is still a pain.
yea I just like the original the most. I wouldn't want to play TLoU or Infinite in Japanese voice or even my own native language.
Out_Of_Ammo
Member
Lol, that was also my reaction. Don't even know how it got in Dutch in the first place, since I normally never select dubs. Even have my PS3 system language set to English...
Undubs are not ideal and I think those looking for "original intent" sort of miss the point if they don't actually understand the original language in the first place. Games are not like the movie medium where there is a subtitle track, a dub track, and closed captions for the dub track. Games generally have a single text script which is based specifically on the language track it's supposed to go with. The text is synced to the dub. Trying to separate them defeats the purpose, since you will end up with a voice track which doesn't even match the text. If you don't understand the voice, you will be reading the text and still not getting the "original intent". If you understand the voice, you'll be annoyed by the fact that the text doesn't match it at all, so you might as well just play the game in Japanese to begin with since you understand the language.
Yeah, I don't understand "undubs" either honestly. It really does seem to be a weeaboo thing where people who don't understand the original language want to pretend they're getting something closer to the original intent, but they really aren't. This is a completely different discussion from whether games should have actual subtitle tracks though. But cost is probably a prohibitive factor for that.
Yeah, I don't understand "undubs" either honestly. It really does seem to be a weeaboo thing where people who don't understand the original language want to pretend they're getting something closer to the original intent, but they really aren't. This is a completely different discussion from whether games should have actual subtitle tracks though. But cost is probably a prohibitive factor for that.
Most of the time (not always), the original is the best version. A lot also gets lost in translation and subtitles are often more accurate than the dub.
Eh, my native laguages are french and german. "undub" mostly means playing something in english for me, not japanese. And yes, some game translations are really bad.
Eh, my native laguages are french and german. "undub" mostly means playing something in english for me, not japanese. And yes, some game translations are really bad.
NoirVisage
Banned
I appreciate the OP's attitude, its really a different strokes for different folks sort of thing, for someone who grew up watching subbed anime and foreign films in a time when there was no other option, you develop an ear for it, and you pick up on the cultural humor that they totally discard in a lot of dubbed anime for the sake of localization. most of the time things get lost in translation, I want as close to the directors vision as I can possibly get, so i dig subs for that reading.
I don't even know how you thought that made sense.
this attitude i despise, there's no discussion here, just the weaboo card, because if you like anything over 'Merica @#$#@ you.
I don't even know how you thought that made sense.
RyougaSaotome
Member
This. You're not getting the "original intent" because you're still reading the localized text in the first place, despite the audio potentially saying something completely different.
TheShampion
Member
It bums me out when I hear people say that they only want to hear stuff in their native language. Hearing stuff in other languages would be a great opportunity for some type of cross-cultural exchange.
On the other hand, I think that VAs from every country should have the chance to get as many roles as they can. Also, the more options for players, the better.
That all being said, if you ever played Xenogears and heard that dub, you would completely understand why there are undubs. Even in 1998, it was crystal clear that the translation was horrible. It made later SQ localizations like FFIX and Vagrant Story seem like Shakespeare in comparison.
On the other hand, I think that VAs from every country should have the chance to get as many roles as they can. Also, the more options for players, the better.
That all being said, if you ever played Xenogears and heard that dub, you would completely understand why there are undubs. Even in 1998, it was crystal clear that the translation was horrible. It made later SQ localizations like FFIX and Vagrant Story seem like Shakespeare in comparison.
Lumination
'enry 'ollins
Most people can't tell how generic and mediocre some Japanese VO can be because they don't understand it. Not saying one is better than the other, rather both can be equally bad, but something bad you don't understand and can apply imagination to is often better than something bad that you can understand.
What? This is a blatant lie. Go ahead, name English games which are dubbed and have subtitles which are different from what is being said. Go on. Yeah. That's what I thought.
Yep, I tried to play Vanquish in Japanese - but due to the fast paced nature of it and one or two bits of dialogue missing subtitles I regrettably switched back.
An adventure however would be awesome in Japanese.
NoirVisage
Banned
huh?
RyougaSaotome
Member
Precisely. There's great stuff and awful stuff on both sides. The only difference is that a lot of folks can only understand one or the other, so the bad stuff just goes over their heads.
This makes me think of Valkyria Chronicles, where I tried to play it with Japanese voices and English text, but even with my limited knowledge of Japanese it became apparent that a lot of times the text didn't match what was being said, to the point where I had to switch back to English voices because it got too confusing.
Because original voice work is always better. They express more emotions and you can hear they are not "fake" like many English dubs of Japanese games.
You have always subtitles you can read and you don't need to know language to hear if person is happy or not.
Undubbing's always seemed kind of redundant to me, as someone who's a fan of getting "the authentic experience". As most people who do it likely don't understand Japanese on a fluent level (or they would've been able to import it), they're still reading the localized script, not a translation of the Japanese. It's different with dubbed movies or anime, as the subtitles are often the more direct translation, and will differ from the spoken audio.
It's pretty much a foreign=better situation in most cases. Same thing happens in Japan, where English is seen as cool and trendy. It's not necessarily better acted or anything, but it sounds more interesting to our ears and appeals to us because it's outside of the norm.
It's pretty much a foreign=better situation in most cases. Same thing happens in Japan, where English is seen as cool and trendy. It's not necessarily better acted or anything, but it sounds more interesting to our ears and appeals to us because it's outside of the norm.
RyougaSaotome
Member
No. There's plenty of "fake" emotions in Japanese voice work as well. You just don't realize it.
RoninChaos
Member
Sorry you don't get it. I guess the unconverted like me will just have to remain in the dark huh? Could you try to be more condescending?
I get tone but not inflection. You can't tell what emphasis they're putting on the word if you don't speak the language. I live in a bi lingual house hold and it's been my experience that the structure if sentences in English is, obviously, different than that of other languages. Something that has always tripped me up when trying to speak my wife's native language are things like verb conjugation and verb placement. It's the opposite of English. If you read subtitles, how they're read in English may not even be remotely the same as how they're spoken in their native language. Since you don't know the word that has the tone or pitch change and what that word is in English, how does inflection matter?
Or, on this forum it really just may be "Everything in Japanese is better!"
The chinese version of FFXIII and XIII-2 has english subs to go with (only) the japanese dub.
An "Undub" is typically a fan-patch which replaces an English release of a Japanese game with the Japanese voice track.
Is it as hokey an awkward as I am imagining it to be?
TheShampion
Member
Actually, this is my biggest pet-peeve when I have English subtitles on and the English is different than what is said. This happens with Japanese as well, so it is more the person doing the subtitles rather than the translation.
Monado Blade
Member
I honestly enjoyed Arc Rise Fantasia's dub. So bad it was good
I do wonder why these points are never discussed. Where are the fervent defenders of German or French or Dutch or Polish dubbing? Why are people who want to play their games in the original English never questioned about or denigrated because of their preference?
What actually is an undub?
Do you mean literally different or actually with a different intention?
So yes, it would feel different. in in that case the solution that spoke the audience's language was chosen.
Do you mean literally different or actually with a different intention?
Acutally there is one scneen in the movie, which qwas meant to be with subtitles but was ultimately done in english, so it would better resonante with the audience.
So yes, it would feel different. in in that case the solution that spoke the audience's language was chosen.
NoirVisage
Banned
Examples? People who say this assume that people who are into subs are only familiar with anime, disregarding the fact that they may also watch motion pictures, and TV dramas as well from different regions. honestly, you develop an ear for an authentic, dramatic voice in any language that you listen to in both comedy and drama. I don't care why anyone would want to listen to dubs, but I wish people would respect that those who truly are going for an experience in line with the original intent aren't automatically treated like race traitors.
Oh god, yes. I was shocked when I found out there was even a Dutch audio option. Had to change it after a few minutes, after the amusement faded and was replaced by horrible cringing.
Acquiescence
Member
Most Japanese games look Japanese. Even when it comes to something made in Japan that tries to mimic an American setting and cast, like Catherine, chances are the game still looks and feels quintessentially Japanese. So when you take away the original voice-track and add in some Western dub containing the same bloody Californian actors you've heard in every popular Anime series localised since the beginning of time, it's jarring. It's really jarring. In some rare cases, like the first Yakuza, it can destroy a game's worth.
Look, choices are great. If folks out there prefer to listen to a Western dub then fine. But what pisses me off is when a Japanese game ships over here and doesn't even give you the option to hear the Japanese audio because some uptight publisher doesn't think we're entitled to have it included. *COUGH*Atlus*COUGH* As the first reply puts it very well - "I do feel like the original creator's intent is always most directly expressed in the original language."
And I don't speak Japanese, so my ears can't pin-point bad voice-acting from that region. Ignorance is bliss in that regard.
Look, choices are great. If folks out there prefer to listen to a Western dub then fine. But what pisses me off is when a Japanese game ships over here and doesn't even give you the option to hear the Japanese audio because some uptight publisher doesn't think we're entitled to have it included. *COUGH*Atlus*COUGH* As the first reply puts it very well - "I do feel like the original creator's intent is always most directly expressed in the original language."
And I don't speak Japanese, so my ears can't pin-point bad voice-acting from that region. Ignorance is bliss in that regard.
NoirVisage
Banned
Wow, I totally missed what the thread was about, I assumed was a roundabout way to say "sub"
I occasionally channel surf and come across some German movies. It seems that they only have around 10 voice actors in the entire country (hyperbole.....). That means you constantly get the same actors in everything. Meanwhile, you can also debate their quality, but that is probably a lot more subjective. I can imagine the same factors applying to the Dutch case.
I'm one of those people who have a hard time playing games that don't have dubs. I also have a difficult time watching foreign films too, so I guess I just prefer hearing things in my native language. It's just jarring to have to read subtitles that may or may not fit the original intent of the lines.
Parallax Scroll
Banned
I've never played a game that way (though I sometimes use a Japanese voice option when it's built into the game). But if undubbing makes the game more enjoyable for some people, that's great.
Sounds like Japanese game dubs to me. (Including the hyperbole)
KillerMan91
Member
I want to watch french movies in french, Korean movies in korean and Japanese games in Japanese. I don't know why it so so hard to grasp for some. I want to see the content with its original voices if it's possible. Maybe it also helps that english is not my motherlanguage so i have gotten used to subs from childhood (Thank god that Finnish tv doesn't dub anything)
ThaiGrocer
Member
I get your line of thinking, but as a person that that grew up in a household with two cultures confusing the hell out of me, you can definitely understand intentions better. At the very least, it's a bastardized version of the intent, but it's evidence that there are levels of understanding. That's without understanding the language.
RyougaSaotome
Member
I place live action stuff in a different area. for me there's a real disconnect between seeing a Japanese/Chinese/Russian/Whatever onscreen speaking English that doesn't match their lips.
If I go to see an American film here and it's dubbed in Japanese, I'm incapable of enjoying the experience because I know that Tom Cruise or whoever is supposed to be speaking English. They're a real person and with that they bring real expectations.
Animation and games not so much, but like I said, location and setting are important too. If I'm watching an anime that takes place in America starring a bunch of Americans, it throws me off watching it in Japanese, so in that case I'd prefer the dub provided it was good. If I was playing Yakuza, I'd prefer to play it in Japanese because it's easier to be engrossed in the setting.
Though I suppose I'm in that weird zone of knowing both languages.
As for examples, I try to make it a point not to play stuff that makes my ears hurt, but recent Level 5 games are a great example. Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney was absolutely terrible in this respect. Phoenix and Maya were played by "real" Japanese actors and the voice work was dreadful. Nearly ruined an otherwise great experience.
Likewise, Ni no Kuni in Japanese is complete shit, again for similar reasons. Those are the most recent ones off the top of my head though.
That being said, I can totally understand switching to Japanese because an English dub is so bad it distracts. Even if the JP voices aren't that hot, it's not a problem if you don't notice it.
Chairmanchuck
Member
Its true though. Like all the shows like How I met your mother, Suburgatory, Scrubs etc. all feature the same voice actors. I would assume its about 20-30 voiceactors in Germany.
While the worst are really the voiceactors of most asian-movies.
semiconscious
Member
& i don't get dubs 
...
seriously, native language / subtitles for all games (as with movies), & be done with it. dubs are pointless/useless (& get in the way of localization)...
...seriously, native language / subtitles for all games (as with movies), & be done with it. dubs are pointless/useless (& get in the way of localization)...
Or it could be shock horror.....terrible actors. I want to play a version where certain characters don't cause my ears to bleed. If my issue was with the script, i would say it was.
That does sound similar. Not sure if the Germans have the same quality standards / pride in their work as the Japanese appear to do.
Depends on how you were raised, I guess. Reading subtitles is like second nature for me, as someone whose TV consumption consisted of 99% foreign language shows with subtitles.
Well sometimes I just like to have any sound while characters are talking to be honest. The gibberish sounds from Animal Crossing (though I know it's based on actual letters), Okami and Banjo Kazooie for example to me are great and I feel like the characters are talking regardless of the fact that it's nonsense vocally.
If an english dub is bad or mediocre, then an undub is much better than entirely turning off the voices and reading in silence. There is also the problem that there is a disgusting over-use of certain voice actors which can be jarring at times too. I've played many JRPGs in a row to only hear the same voice actors as main characters, it's not cool. I know Japan re-uses plenty of VAs too, but they seem to make more of an effort doing different voices, and it's harder for me to notice.
An undub is also the only way to play Arc Rise Fantasia. Terrible voice acting can sometimes ruin a game.
If an english dub is bad or mediocre, then an undub is much better than entirely turning off the voices and reading in silence. There is also the problem that there is a disgusting over-use of certain voice actors which can be jarring at times too. I've played many JRPGs in a row to only hear the same voice actors as main characters, it's not cool. I know Japan re-uses plenty of VAs too, but they seem to make more of an effort doing different voices, and it's harder for me to notice.
An undub is also the only way to play Arc Rise Fantasia. Terrible voice acting can sometimes ruin a game.
Aquamarine
Member
I know Japanese, so whenever I play a Japanese game with Japanese voices, I try to import it and play it in its original, unaltered state.
For me it doesn't really have anything to do with the "dub quality." I just like having experiences as close to their original portrayal as possible.
The only languages I know are Japanese and English, English being my native language. So if I can't access the original Japanese version for whatever reason, undubs seem like the next best thing.
Likewise, if I'm playing Gears of War or Uncharted, I want to use the English voices. If I'm playing The Witcher 2, I want to experience the Polish voices.
I'm not trying to say that dubs aren't perfectly acceptable or decent...because they are, and I have absolutely no problem playing a game 100% dubbed. But when I have the opportunity, I'd rather choose the original over a localized version.
For me it doesn't really have anything to do with the "dub quality." I just like having experiences as close to their original portrayal as possible.
The only languages I know are Japanese and English, English being my native language. So if I can't access the original Japanese version for whatever reason, undubs seem like the next best thing.
Likewise, if I'm playing Gears of War or Uncharted, I want to use the English voices. If I'm playing The Witcher 2, I want to experience the Polish voices.
I'm not trying to say that dubs aren't perfectly acceptable or decent...because they are, and I have absolutely no problem playing a game 100% dubbed. But when I have the opportunity, I'd rather choose the original over a localized version.