SplitYourInfinities
Member
LOLOLOL
Hanzo player, OF COURSE.
EDIT: oh I see, OP doesn't main Hanzo... STILL, what a terrible thread.
Hanzo player, OF COURSE.
EDIT: oh I see, OP doesn't main Hanzo... STILL, what a terrible thread.
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I don't understand healers (OP mains Hanzo)
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Drillary Clinton
Banned
Lucio is invaluable when paired with Ana who is a mandatory character. Ergo, Mercy is the worst healer.
Spartancarver
Member
I usually play DPS and I do attempt to focus her when I can, but the combination of the aforemention factors make her not particularly fun to fight. Mercy's heals are so powerful that she should have to depend on her other teammates to cover her. Current Mercy has way too high survivability.
buy teh haloz
Banned
typical handjob/gangrene main
Mass Effect
Member
The replies in this thread are dogshit.
The OP, and the people he quoted, do have a point. If we take Overwatch as an example, healers are a lot less technical than some of the characters in the other classes. They also tend to be a little less involved as well.
It's obvious that the OP isn't saying "lol why play healers," but rather what can be done to make healers more dynamic and more compelling (which, the posts he quoted make it obvious that it was his point, but then again, that requires actually reading the thread). I mean there's a reason people gravitate toward characters like Tracer, Genji, or D.Va (well, when she didn't suck). Yes, they may be more difficult to use (which is why we get a lot of shit Genji users for example), but they're more involved, which makes them more compelling.
I mean you can be an amazing Mercy player, but there is only so much you can do as her. It's why I prefer using Ana and Zenyatta, because they are less... one dimensional.
The OP, and the people he quoted, do have a point. If we take Overwatch as an example, healers are a lot less technical than some of the characters in the other classes. They also tend to be a little less involved as well.
It's obvious that the OP isn't saying "lol why play healers," but rather what can be done to make healers more dynamic and more compelling (which, the posts he quoted make it obvious that it was his point, but then again, that requires actually reading the thread). I mean there's a reason people gravitate toward characters like Tracer, Genji, or D.Va (well, when she didn't suck). Yes, they may be more difficult to use (which is why we get a lot of shit Genji users for example), but they're more involved, which makes them more compelling.
I mean you can be an amazing Mercy player, but there is only so much you can do as her. It's why I prefer using Ana and Zenyatta, because they are less... one dimensional.
Prime example right here of why OP reported the mod.
Healers and buffers in a PvP setting add a whole other level of depth to the game which open a door to different strategies and exciting battles where the tides can turn in wild and exciting ways.
Healers and buffers in a multiplayer PvE setting is garbage because teams need to rely on a person or two to accomplish anything, while everyone else becomes an easily replaceable drone. Skirmishes are less exciting when you don't have to worry about your survival because it's someone else's job.
Healers in single player PvE games are fun because you're managing all the elements of the battle, thus making it feel less monotonous.
I also need to play Overwatch to get these references. :-/
Healers and buffers in a multiplayer PvE setting is garbage because teams need to rely on a person or two to accomplish anything, while everyone else becomes an easily replaceable drone. Skirmishes are less exciting when you don't have to worry about your survival because it's someone else's job.
Healers in single player PvE games are fun because you're managing all the elements of the battle, thus making it feel less monotonous.
I also need to play Overwatch to get these references. :-/
M0nochromatic
Member
That title change is sort of gross in how in mischaracterizes the topic creator. Isn't there a post in here where he states that he mains healers? I don't agree with his conclusion that healers should be cut out, but shit man, he's stated his piece in a civil manner.
Chronospherics
Member
I think the gameplay of a healer, specifically in Overwatch is generally poor design. People do not want to play support because they are simplistic and don't get to articulate themselves in the way that other characters do.
There's a lack of ability to make the character your own, because of that simplicity. No careful placement of powers, no little intelligent articulation to CC and other support abilities.
Battleborn and Paladin's do it a lot better, the healers aren't one trick ponies, they have much more depth to their gameplay. Let's take Miko from Battleborn for instance, he has his heal, but he never discards his ability to attack. He can also provide a debuff and or CC depending on his build, which serves as a skill shot type move, and his ultimate has a huge strategic component, based on placement. Taking another, Alani, another healer, she can heal with a tidal wave type ability, and speed boost her team too, but she can also CC with a skillshot, and the strength of her heal is based off of the number of stacks she builds, she builds stacks by attacking. So there's this constant dynamic of going between attacking, supporting with CC, and healing.
It's far more interesting and it's a big component of what makes me really enjoy playing healers in Battleborn, but not in Overwatch. There weaknesses are that they're still squishy, and easily killed if alone, but they have a lot more utility, a lot more options at any one time, so that makes them much more fun to play. Plus it's nice to get in on the kills once in a while. With Alani I probably won't be top of the scoreboard, but I can help in most team fights with more than healing.
For me Overwatch's gameplay design, particularly for healers, is just really boring. It's really simplistic, it's a simple and accessible game throughout but healers are on a different level. Of course you can still break down every action they can perform, and say it's quite complicated, and it is, every game with 3D movement is arguably quite complicated, there's always something you can do, some very intelligent positioning and whatnot that happens at high level play, and interplaying with ally and opponent abilities can make the game much more complicated than your character alone expresses, but its still comparably simplistic, and I'm not a fan of that. It struggles to engage me.
I basically think healers are neat, they facilitate a back and forth that can make games interesting, but Overwatch's healers are just dull from a gameplay perspective. That's one of the reasons I dislike the game, because if I wanted to climb ranked I'd have to play characters I don't find fun to play, why would I play a game where I didn't have fun playing at least one third of the time? It's not for me.
It is however, important to remember that Overwatch isn't the only game in which healers feature. If you think Overwatch's healers are dull then you should check out Paladins or Battleborn, I think they're much more fun and complex characters there.
Yeah I find it really distasteful too.
There's a lack of ability to make the character your own, because of that simplicity. No careful placement of powers, no little intelligent articulation to CC and other support abilities.
Battleborn and Paladin's do it a lot better, the healers aren't one trick ponies, they have much more depth to their gameplay. Let's take Miko from Battleborn for instance, he has his heal, but he never discards his ability to attack. He can also provide a debuff and or CC depending on his build, which serves as a skill shot type move, and his ultimate has a huge strategic component, based on placement. Taking another, Alani, another healer, she can heal with a tidal wave type ability, and speed boost her team too, but she can also CC with a skillshot, and the strength of her heal is based off of the number of stacks she builds, she builds stacks by attacking. So there's this constant dynamic of going between attacking, supporting with CC, and healing.
It's far more interesting and it's a big component of what makes me really enjoy playing healers in Battleborn, but not in Overwatch. There weaknesses are that they're still squishy, and easily killed if alone, but they have a lot more utility, a lot more options at any one time, so that makes them much more fun to play. Plus it's nice to get in on the kills once in a while. With Alani I probably won't be top of the scoreboard, but I can help in most team fights with more than healing.
For me Overwatch's gameplay design, particularly for healers, is just really boring. It's really simplistic, it's a simple and accessible game throughout but healers are on a different level. Of course you can still break down every action they can perform, and say it's quite complicated, and it is, every game with 3D movement is arguably quite complicated, there's always something you can do, some very intelligent positioning and whatnot that happens at high level play, and interplaying with ally and opponent abilities can make the game much more complicated than your character alone expresses, but its still comparably simplistic, and I'm not a fan of that. It struggles to engage me.
I basically think healers are neat, they facilitate a back and forth that can make games interesting, but Overwatch's healers are just dull from a gameplay perspective. That's one of the reasons I dislike the game, because if I wanted to climb ranked I'd have to play characters I don't find fun to play, why would I play a game where I didn't have fun playing at least one third of the time? It's not for me.
It is however, important to remember that Overwatch isn't the only game in which healers feature. If you think Overwatch's healers are dull then you should check out Paladins or Battleborn, I think they're much more fun and complex characters there.
Yeah I find it really distasteful too.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Yeah man Lucio being one of the hardest heroes in the game to kill with some of the best mobility in the game a strong gun if you know how to lead shots and predict, crazy good speed boost and aoe heals
You know the character that straight up dictates the swing of a fight off something he has on a 12 second cooldown
The character you can stay on a wall for over 50% of a match jumping all over the freaking place
The character that can instant kill others with his push on some maps
Lucio is just behind anna in skill required to play at max potential
One bad timed amp it up can cost you a game
Only way Lucio is easy is if you barely use his toolkit and then that's not so much he's easy it's more you are playing the character half ass.
Zenyatta is easy as hell to play outside of when to make a call to pop a healing ult to save the team outside of the obvious counter ult moments, Throw discord out on priority targets, let the team know who you discorded on mic, cover you co healer with a heal orb when needed otherwise keep healing focus on the team unless you are playing with lucio then keep orb on tank mostly
LOL
You know the character that straight up dictates the swing of a fight off something he has on a 12 second cooldown
The character you can stay on a wall for over 50% of a match jumping all over the freaking place
The character that can instant kill others with his push on some maps
Lucio is just behind anna in skill required to play at max potential
One bad timed amp it up can cost you a game
Only way Lucio is easy is if you barely use his toolkit and then that's not so much he's easy it's more you are playing the character half ass.
Zenyatta is easy as hell to play outside of when to make a call to pop a healing ult to save the team outside of the obvious counter ult moments, Throw discord out on priority targets, let the team know who you discorded on mic, cover you co healer with a heal orb when needed otherwise keep healing focus on the team unless you are playing with lucio then keep orb on tank mostly
LOL
TheSpoiler
Member
Here's what you do as Mercy in the eyes of a casual player - you heal and boost damage.
Here's how Mercy plays - you heal people on priority, having to quickly decide who gets it in the heat of battle. Your decisions sway the tide of battle because choosing the right people to heal could me an extra minute on the point or healing the person that is gunning for you. Spacing is super important because you want to be at certain distances and not all up in the fight but sometimes you have to do map knowledge is important. You can glide, but you need to be mindful of how far and how fast you can reach someone. You can also use speedy characters to get to others faster. And don't get me started on boosting damage, because again you need to boost the right people at the right times and switching between both heals and boost is pretty important.
And bringing people back? That's stressful. Sure sometimes it's clear when to use the Rez but not always. And one mess up means costing the rest of the round if you can't build meter fast enough for another. Her pistol does some damage so that's an option as well.
All the while the other team is gunning for you. And if your team isn't protecting you, might as well just kick rocks. People don't avoid playing Mercy because she lacks tools (which is weird because she doesn't). It's very stressful and can be the reason you lose the round.
That's not even getting into pockets that let the team push better depending on your team and the other teams comp.
Yeh but in games classes that aren't healers already have cool powers like that.
I wouldn't want a engineer / assault class to lose that and dedicate it to a healer class.
Then the other classes would become more boring
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
The problem with mercy isn't that she lacks tools it's that the match becomes 5 v 6
Zen
discord orb is group wide damage boost on a target
He can do a mid speed heal on a single target
shit high damage out consistently
Ana
has insane burst healing
Nade is strong as hell for healing and negating healing
Sleep dart
She also can still attack and heal at the same time on the fly
Lucio
Speed boost
Weak aoe heal outside of amp it up but up 24/7
Super strong AoE heal with amp it up can bring a whole team from half life to full in 2-3 seconds
Hard as hell to kill with some of the best movement in the game that doesnt depend on others
can attack while doing his job
can disrupt when foes get close or be agressive and disrupt
Zen
discord orb is group wide damage boost on a target
He can do a mid speed heal on a single target
shit high damage out consistently
Ana
has insane burst healing
Nade is strong as hell for healing and negating healing
Sleep dart
She also can still attack and heal at the same time on the fly
Lucio
Speed boost
Weak aoe heal outside of amp it up but up 24/7
Super strong AoE heal with amp it up can bring a whole team from half life to full in 2-3 seconds
Hard as hell to kill with some of the best movement in the game that doesnt depend on others
can attack while doing his job
can disrupt when foes get close or be agressive and disrupt
Chronospherics
Member
If you have an opinion that you'd like to discuss then please state it. Posting 'LOL' doesn't add anything to the discussion, if you disagree with me then I'd like to hear why.
I really feel that posts like yours lower the quality of the forum / threads that the feature in. Even if I am wrong (which I am open to) I'd be happy to discuss that.
Lord Phol
Member
I usually dislike healers in pvp since they only prolong games, are usually unkillable 1v1 and just keep doing annoying things. Overwatch is one of few games were I actually don't mind them too much since they can be killed if you play your cards right and are somewhat fun to play. They can still be annoying in certain premade teams though especially when they keep healing each other.
Wow in particular has fueled my dislike for healers. I prefer supports that helps the team in other ways than just keeping someones healthmeter above a certain threshold.
Wow in particular has fueled my dislike for healers. I prefer supports that helps the team in other ways than just keeping someones healthmeter above a certain threshold.
I'll see the mods in court
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
I mean I can't say much that's generally wrong as hell. In almost every account. In MMO's good healers know how to weave in dps as well as know that there are moments where they need to play pixel perfect or the group dies. Healers in MMO's will always be one of the most overpowered jobs. People don't play a healer for two reasons
They like killing stuff and want to see big numbers and think that is all that matters
and / or
They don't want the responsibility the group relies on them to do they job and carry their asses if your healer sucks it's super obvious vs shitty dps where bad dps just typically stay bad and enjoy pressing their buttons fights just typically go slower big woop
In Overwatch the healers are versatile as hell and can do all sorts of things to sway games
People just think playing a healer means all you do is sit back and heal your team thats not true at all. As for the the damage numbers while a dps might be like WOW LOOK AT MY DAMAGE IM SO STRONG I'll just nod my head say yes you are while doing half their damage and healing the teams life from almost zero to full 15x over.
In the mmo world I'll continue to cream my pants when I crit a heal followed by a crit instant heal that heals a tank from 5% to full life because hey guess what healers get to enjoy big numbers too
LOL
I sort of think it bizarre how so many in this thread use Overwatch as an example for arguments against healers existing.
The healers in Overwatch are some of the best designed I have seen. Yes, even Mercy. Honestly, Lucio is probably the only healer that suffers from design issues.
The healers in Overwatch are some of the best designed I have seen. Yes, even Mercy. Honestly, Lucio is probably the only healer that suffers from design issues.
Weltall Zero
Member
you forgot your caps lock
Backlogger
Member
I like his passive healing ability...
Unknown Soldier
Banned
I don't actually know if "I have reported the moderator." was added by the mod or the OP but it's funny either way.
Honor and shame are part of it.
MadJackChurchill
Banned
Have you played Ana? She needs to aim at those she's healing, shoot the enemy team (with decent damage output), choose which enemies to put to sleep, whether to deny healing or boost healing for allies. She has CC, disruption, chip damage, AND healing all in one.
I wrote it. Mods who change the original post have to write an edit reason in the post, I think. I don't find the reported moderator funny; like another poster said, their behaviour in this instance was distasteful.
Chronospherics
Member
Yeah Anna is more interesting to me than the others, in my opinion. But I hear people complain that she has too much utility, and she does, compared to the other healers. She does good damage, good heals, a good stun, and shifts momentum with her ult. I think she's good fun.
I know that there can be a lot of nuance to it, at a high level of play, but I feel that the same elements of positioning exist in other characters like DPS, but then they also have that higher mechanical skill factor, accuracy and whatnot. Sure you can say that Lucio has high mechanical skill, with the tracking on his shots, but because of the opposing teams heals this is generally the type of thing that just ends up being noise in the system, the vast majority of the time. It's high burst damage that kills people, not your semi-accurate, modest DPS with Lucio.
I feel that other games like Battleborn and Paladins have a little bit more depth to the same systems, it helps that they just straight up give you more skills and options, and also feature both primary and secondary attacks. It's also not wrong for people to enjoy getting more involved in the fights. While Ana has her own CC, it's a stall rather than a straight up CC, a defensive utility ability most of the time, Alani on Battleborn can lock people in a stun, slow people, boost players speed, stack buffs and debuffs on allies and opponents, heal in varying bursts or waves depending on debuff stacks.
I admit some of my criticisms regard Overwatch generally, and it's a preference for more mechanically complex games that drives them, but it's nice to have healers whose offensive roles feel more than just noise in the system, most of the time.
I just really love the more complex designs elsewhere. Alani from Battleborn has 4 potential means of healing, depending on spacing, health lost, priority, 2 different debuffs (both slows) different sl she can apply to others, 1 that she can apply to allies, stacks that build with damage and power usage that influence her damage output and healing ability with a tradeoff-like system, 2 crowd control abilities (one lifts them into the air, another bumps them backwards like Lucio), and she also has decent damage on 4 abilities, yet she's not overpowered because other characters have even more utility than that. Oh, and she also has to lead her shots with tracking, and yet this has more of an influence on what happens because this relates to her stacks, and her ability to heal. If Lucio misses no one cries, if Alani misses her next heal won't be as possible and someone might die. It's the interplay between all of her skills that I really like.
I feel all of Lucio's nuanced movement based gameplay only really comes into play at a high level of play, it's less explicit and more team orientated, Alani (and similar more versatile healers) have the same systems but they also have quite a bit more complexity to the core gameplay, which is a factor even at the lowest level of play. With that said I know it's accessibility that makes Overwatch so appealing, so I get that people might not like the more complex healer designs, but I think a little more complexity wouldn't hurt, I dislike that what seem like basic attributes like Lucios knockback, are an ability and not a secondary attack.
Triforce141
Member
The statement of "High level _____ is a completely different game." applies to every hero
At basic casual play, Mercy's still a generally boring character to play as, let alone one that's completely frustrating with a team who won't stick together.
I play tanks and dps in FF XIV, but in Overwatch, Ana is the character I have the most fun playing as. High skill ceiling, the ability to single handedly change the course of battles by sleeping ulting enemies, denying healing, providing massive healing, while still being able to pump out respectable dps yourself...she's an incredibly fun and challenging character to master.
FatCatAttack
Member
He told me you had 40 hours in Torb. I'll have to double check with him or peek on your Overbuff myself. I'm pretty sure I was a Hanzo at least a few of those times. I remember since Quote was trying to convince me you've turned a leaf on your demeanor but given the tone and timbre of your posts in this thread maybe I was misinformed on that as well.
Hanzo being a high skill character isn't a problem. People have to play to get better and not everyone is on the same point on their journey. Being bad at a videogame is not a character flaw. Part of the interest in videogames is driven by the learning process of mechanics (especially for me). If something is too easy interest tends to drop. If there are no mountains to climb many gamers won't stay in the long term. This is essentially why achievements exist in games and why they are so popular. People challenging themselves is something to be celebrated. If you can play a character and "do more with a lot less skill" then it's game design issue not a player issue. For the record I don't believe this is the case with Hanzo. His balance exists on a knife's edge but he definitely has his place.
Carrying an Overwatch game a man down or even two men down is not a big deal either. I play with other gaffers all the time and I do it all the time
. In fact it's far easier to carry a weak DPS character than say a tank or support. A dps that is struggling is MERELY absent. A healer that can't farm their ult in a timely manner or a tank that feeds their ass relentlessly is essentially an asset to the other team. 5 v 6 is winnable. 4 v 6 is winnable. But a 5 v 7 and a 4 v 8 are different beasts entirely.I don't want to be rude either. Which is why I am going to respectfully disagree with everything you said. I want to emphasize this because there is a lot to unpack in your post and the structure of my own post is probably gonna be bullet pointy which tends to look aggressive.
- Hanzo has one of the most complete skillsets in the game and only one that centers around burst damage, which is the most relevant damage in the game of Overwatch. Most characters sacrifice something in exchange for utility. Sombra for instance has a great deal of utility but has a mediocre primary weapon to compensate. Or some characters just flat out have bum skills. Widow's venom mine is a salient example of that. It's a 75 damage dot on a huge cooldown. It does less damage than a basic attack from Ana's bio rifle. Hanzo has vision (sonic arrow), raw burst (scatter arrow), high base damage with critical strike potentional (basic attack), 100 percent uptime positioning tool (wall climb), and a team fight ultimate (dragonstrike).
- Not only is Hanzo's skillset complete but each ability is extremely strong relative to other characters with similar abilities and it's not only useful but has multiple uses. Sonic arrow is on a 50 percent uptime, can be shot not only into walls but on enemy characters as well turning them into a mobile ward, and retains it's damage potential even when frozen in barriers. Many a surprised rein and mei have died to a sonic arrow I implanted into their shield/iceblock that then falls onto their head. Unlike Widow ult it's nigh undetectable and completely free (no ult charge required). Even though the vision provided is smaller, the game is centered around chokepoints with small grouped up team blobs. Meaning, the global vision provided by widow ult is superfluous. Scatter arrow is probably the strongest non ult ability in the game. Each of the 6 micro arrows does 75 damage each (higher than a mccree pistol shot) for a total of 450 damage when shotgunned off floors or walls, which is 50 more damage than Tracer's ult. It's a guaranteed elimination when used properly either killing anything from a Zarya on down directly or chunking them so severely they die with minimum follow up. He gets this for free every 10 seconds which coincidentally is the stock respawn time for a character in overwatch. Meaning you can perma stagger one person with it or more in certain situations when you consider travel time from spawn to the point without having to land a single basic attack. Wall climb is a mobility option with no cooldown whatsoever that allows you to seize the highground which is the most important position in overwatch. In OW there is no real cover in most of the maps which consists of corridors and kill boxes aside from the corner leading into said corridors and boxes. The high ground essentially give you another "corner" to peek behind because the floor in this instance provides cover against people who are below you. Hanzo can seize the highground at any time he wishes. And if forced off of it, can simply clamber back up to the same spot. The perch connecting to the walkway on volkskaya's second point for instance is an extremely strong position. It's above the point and yet you can contest/cap while sitting there. A soldier or mccree would have to walk through the backline to get up the stairs everytime to reach that position, but a Hanzo can just scoot up there anytime he wishes, drop there to control the two health packs, and then climb up again. This is a huge advantage. And finally, Hanzo's ult is a multipurpose tool. Not only is it a wombo combo ult, but it can also snipe people through walls, and be used to split a teamfight not unlike a Mei wall. It's cheap and easy to get, and unlike a lot of ults in this game, it doesn't put the user at any appreciable disadvantage to use in contrast to say pharah ult or high noon. The character essentially has three ults. That's not a weak character anyway you look at it.
- Hanzo is one of the most efficient characters to use against rein. Because, his "reload" time is built into his fire rate. Not having to stop and reload a clip like every other character in the game means his sustained dps is quite high. The way the math works out only a few characters, like Bastion, are stronger against the shield. Also if the rein takes any damage at all and lets his guard down he'll get easily deleted by scatter arrow. Hookshot into scatter destroys plenty of reins who tried to sneak out a firestrike.
- Having a Zarya on your team to combo with isn't a bad thing since Zarya is just a strong character overall. The graviton/Dragon combo is also the strongest combo with the easiest execution with the LEAST amount of counterplay. It goes through barriers, it goes through everything. The only effective answer is zen's ult (which in itself is countered by Ana nade). Sound barrier is a mediocre answer to the combo and resurrection often fails cuz the mercy get's sucked in as well. Nanoboost does nothing to this kind of teamfight. The presence of Hanzo/Zarya forces a particular type of draft, zen/lucio,which has the significant drawback of not having an Ana.
- "Getting on the objective" is hard to unpack because it relies on two major misconceptions about Overwatch. First, no 200 hp character in the game is suited to get "on the objective" They are simply too frail with too limited firepower to just "take" the objective. A McCree isn't able to take the objective any more than a Hanzo and is infact often worse at it. A soldier can dance and jiggle in his biotic field a bit longer but will also get clobbered if he's forced to frontline and "get on the point." This misconception about objective play is rooted in the misconception on what objective play actually is. Taking the objective, pushing the payload to the end, etc. these are goals to win the game. It is however NOT the win condition that lets you achieve said goal. The winning condition is to wipe the enemy team or otherwise force them off the point that in turn allows you to get on the objective. And the way you often do that in Overwatch is specifically by NOT getting on the objective. For example, in Dorado defense on the second to last point many high level teams will specifically IGNORE the cart and take the high ground on the church. The second floor here connects to walkways that control both entrances into the courtyard and obtains mastery over all the big healthpacks (the one in stairs, the one in fountain, and the one in statue). This strong position let's them control the cart better than if they just sat on it like a bunch of pigeons.
- The lionization of healers "carrying the trash dps" is just silly. You can't take a character to task for his skill floor and supposed lack of effectiveness and then say the healer was doing all the work. If that was the case why get mad at what dps was picked in the first place? Secondly, it's a total non-sequitur. Yes healers provide valuable utility through sustain but the issue wasn't that healers are useful or not but whether people are provided good incentives to play them and whether their design treats their players fairly. People play Hanzo, whether they are good or bad at him, because he is fun to play. Many people don't like playing passive healers because they aren't as fun to play for THEM. Gaf can post all the pictures and claim to high heaven how fun it is to play Lucio all it wants to like a modern day Tom Sawyer, but the average player is not gonna paint that fence.
enixbelmont
Member
I really agree. I don't agree with TC's conclusion but it's a discussion worth having. The thread was changed to a title that's not even true.
PrinnyBomb
Member
I want to disagree, but then I'm realizing that most Dota supports don't have heals either.
I think it's more about creativity and game design rather than a strict good/bad scenario
I think it's more about creativity and game design rather than a strict good/bad scenario
FatCatAttack
Member
Well the thing about Dota and other games based around RPG mechanics is that supports have the same gameplay loop or in fact a more developed one than carries. For instance in Dota a Lion has all his spells and can make items like blink, force, euls, ghost sceptor, urn, etc. A lot of buttons to press and a lot of skill is used to make plays compared to say wraith king who is a "one button hero" who's suppose to frontline and smack things with his sword the whole time. In dungeon and dragons (someone posted a cleric earlier) healers cast a variety of spells including aggressive ones. Planning what spells to use and what resources to use is often more engaging than "I hit the goblin with my sword." This is a marked difference to an action game where the primary gameplay loop is to shoot people in the face. Having characters that specifically don't revolve around that is harder to justify.
Aeriscloud
Banned
Rellik
Member
Maybe you should... report the mod.
Zomba13
Member
At least there seems to be a slump in Mods changing topics to Polls and adding "Thor 2: The Dark World" as an option because they are so hilarious and original.
Human Trashcan
Banned
I agree with the quotes in OP. Overwatch meta sucks because a full third of your team is expected to play healers, and pretty much no one, if given their druthers, likes to play them. They did a good job making most of them somewhat fun at least (except Mercy).
Death Penalty
Member
I can't agree with you, OP. Most healers are a more integral part of the team than the average damage-dealer and their decisions have huge ramifications for the group and a great deal of tactical depth. It seems like you take a lot of issue with one particular hero for having a low skillcap, but it isn't as though Mercy being entry-level in complexity is indicative of healers as a whole being simple and uninteresting. Look at heroes like Reinhardt, who have as little or less complexity. Then look at, say, Ana, a healer who has a great deal of tactical depth through her toolkit. I personally think most folks don't like healers not because of a lack of compelling depth but because the healers can make them feel vulnerable and aren't very effective at killing foes. It removes a great deal of the inherent power fantasy people crave in FPS games.
Also I have to agree that the edit is pretty gross. Most of the contemptuous mod edits seem to be these days.
Also I have to agree that the edit is pretty gross. Most of the contemptuous mod edits seem to be these days.
Professor Beef
Banned
It was funny though
Usually title edits go to threads with opening posts that deserve it
Majima Everywhere System
Member
Healers are a good option when you aren't that into whatever the main game is.
All playstyles can have individual mechanical depth, the issue may be more meta: like how healing sustain can worsen game flow, restrict game design wiggle room and reduce viable choices for player picks (healer or lose). Old Soraka is one possible example.
Bboy AJ
My dog was murdered by a 3.5mm audio port and I will not rest until the standard is dead
It is absolutely disgusting and a total troll move. It's an interesting topic that could be explored but instead became derailed with drive by posting and now a horribly distracting title.
I do agree that supports have become a necessity hampered by being unpopular. A more engaging way of support would make for more interesting dynamics. Healing alone is bland.
- Status