"I hate videogames, but I have to say this was rather good"
Y2Kevbug11 said:Well, I would just look at the movie industry where a lot of artistic films don't do well or are never even made because of the pap hollywood churns out now. That's why you can't let creative industries be driven by supply and demand.
spritex said:Games like Doom and Gran Turismo sold TONS more than games like System Shock or Thief.
Which of these do you consider more creative?
IMO, most of today's console games aren't very creative and interesting. Bulk of them are variations of quite simple FPS or Racing mechanics or somesuch.
I have been playing games for 20 years. I welcome the Wii as a breath of fresh air. I will buy it for the new experience, and just the controller guarantees it if it is fully utilized. The games themselves remain to be seen but I have no reason to believe why the selection would be any _less_ varied than on current consoles.
Wii also has great potential for experimental games. Partly because of lower development verhead, partly because of the spark the controller brings. They could be simple, artistic, whacky and interesting. Or not.
Oh, and I also play games on my PC. I am looking forward to Gothic 3, Bioshock and Dark Messiah of Might and Magic.
Flo_Evans said:you are silly if you don't think weaker hardware doesn't impose limits on developers. work in completely new ways how? gamecube devkits are old news buddy
Precisely. It's also important to note that more epic games are a form of high art that the idiotic masses simply aren't capable of understanding, clearly any attempt to reach out to these philistines degrades this proud and culturally rich medium.Filter said:what the hell is going on in here?
is someone going to tell me that games that are instantly accessible and fun by virtue of their simplicity, such as Pac-Man or Tetris are shit, and should be looked down on with contempt?
drohne said:something like wii tennis or brain training appeals to people who hate videogames by divesting itself of practically everything that makes a videogame a videogame. in rather the way that fat bestsellers sell precisely because they have no literary merit, and much popular music sells because it's inoffensive background noise.
game enthusiasts should look down on "games for people who hate games," but can't because they're too busy loathing themselves -- they suspect that people who hate videogames are right, and would like to see them placated somehow.
also nintendo fans are dumb.
I don't know about you, but I enjoy good movies from the 60's just as much as good movies from 2006. It's not like the rising quality of special effects has raised the amount of good movies, is it?
drohne said:why are "videogames for people who hate videogames" considered a good thing when "books for people who hate reading" or "music for people who hate music" are such obviously bad things?
Maybe I don't understand enough about the Wii and how its videogames are going to be, but how does your analogy work? Is the Wii and its nature going to rob videogames of their substance? Will games be simple and immediately satisfying, but necessarily lack the (implied) depth and substance that traditional games possess?drohne said:something like wii tennis or brain training appeals to people who hate videogames by divesting itself of practically everything that makes a videogame a videogame. in rather the way that fat bestsellers sell precisely because they have no literary merit, and much popular music sells because it's inoffensive background noise.
Bizarro Sun Yat-sen said:You don't need special effects to make a visually rich movie, since you can simply film reality (or draw/animate it frame by frame if you have enough time and manpower). The situation is different for games with real-time graphics (and world simulation, AI...) and really a better analogy would be to cinema in the 1890s-1920s.
Are you a developer? I'm pretty sure you're not. You really don't have to understand why lots of developers feel that the Wii is very stimulating to their imagination (and far fewer complain about the relatively low specs), you just have to realize that it's true.Flo_Evans said:you are silly if you don't think weaker hardware doesn't impose limits on developers. work in completely new ways how? gamecube devkits are old news buddy
Right, because videogame technology has evolved more in the last 2-3 years than cinematography has in the last 100.Bizarro Sun Yat-sen said:You don't need special effects to make a visually rich movie, since you can simply film reality (or draw/animate it frame by frame if you have enough time and manpower). The situation is different for games with real-time graphics (and world simulation, AI...) and really a better analogy would be to cinema in the 1890s-1920s.
Right, because videogame technology has evolved more in the last 2-3 years than cinematography has in the last 100.
No special effects, NO COLOR and NO SOUND (both introduced around 1930) makes slightly more difference than the last 2 years advances in videogame technology.
I'd perhaps say 15-20, but alright. It's a good thing the Wii doesn't use 10-15 year old hardware (SNES/PS1) then!Bizarro Sun Yat-sen said:But yes, I'd say that the last 10 or 15 years of advances in computer hardware capabilities are in fact comparable to the introduction of color and synchronized sound
kablooey said:They're like the Beatles of videogames.
maybe people have an irrational dislike of nintendo and refuse to use logic when discussing them? maybe....just maybe. :OOblivion said:Something funny that I noticed in threads like these.
If Nintendo makes non-games:
OMG NINTENDO'S RUINING THE INDUSTRY BY APPEALING TO NON-GAMERS! WHAT ABOUT ME, AND MY HARDCORE GAMER NEEDS?!
If someone mentions that Nintendo's not forgetting Mario and Zelda:
OMG THAT'S PRETTY ORIGINAL NINTENDO YOU'D THINK THINK THEY WOULD MAKE SOMETHING NEW BY NOW
Oblivion said:Something funny that I noticed in threads like these.
If Nintendo makes non-games:
OMG NINTENDO'S RUINING THE INDUSTRY BY APPEALING TO NON-GAMERS! WHAT ABOUT ME, AND MY HARDCORE GAMER NEEDS?!
If someone mentions that Nintendo's not forgetting Mario and Zelda:
OMG THAT'S PRETTY ORIGINAL NINTENDO YOU'D THINK THINK THEY WOULD MAKE SOMETHING NEW BY NOW
Archie said:maybe people have an irrational dislike of nintendo and refuse to use logic when discussing them? maybe....just maybe. :O
you can reconcile the two by saying you wish Nintendo would focus on epic games that weren't just prepackaged versions of all their classical franchises.
Oblivion said:I enjoy my Zelda: TPs and Mario Galaxies very much just fine, thank you.
Amir0x said:right right, but that wasn't what was being said. You said you find it odd that they say these things, when it's quite easy to reconcile it. I'm bored of the Mario "galaxy" (pun intended), but I still can enjoy those games. So it would be nice if I can have a game where I wasn't ****ing bored of seeing a stubby italian plumber and his mushroom kingdom, because that'd make it even better!
AniHawk said:Explain to me how Wii Sports is not epic.
Amir0x said:i can best explain it with a slap to AniHawk's face.
AniHawk said:But you wont because you know I'm right.
Amir0x said:no no, i would. you're just too far away. Do they make internet teleportation devices yet?
AniHawk said:Nintendo did. But you probably wont use it because you hate them for no good reason.
AniHawk said:Explain to me how Wii Sports is not epic.
Trurl said:Will Wii Sports' soundtrack be orchestrated?
AniHawk said:Explain to me how Wii Sports is not epic.
Hey, that's a good idea. Somebody should call Nintendo.AniHawk said:By a third player.
Amir0x said:right right, but that wasn't what was being said. You said you find it odd that they say these things, when it's quite easy to reconcile it. I'm bored of the Mario "galaxy" (pun intended), but I still can enjoy those games. So it would be nice if I can have a game where I wasn't ****ing bored of seeing a stubby italian plumber and his mushroom kingdom, because that'd make it even better!
Precisely. It's also important to note that more epic games are a form of high art that the idiotic masses simply aren't capable of understanding, clearly any attempt to reach out to these philistines degrades this proud and culturally rich medium.
sp0rsk said:but galaxy doesnt look like any of the previous mario games aside from having some koopas and marios...
sp0rsks said:indeed, WE NEED MORE EPICS! Without our scifi and fantasy epics, what is left for games? Surely we will be put in the gaming ghetto. Scholars who tend to praise this great medium as a bastion for creativity would shun us. I fear for what nintendos future brings.
Amir0x said:I'm sorry, that's a pretty weak attempt to try to justify Nintendo's sluting of Mario. To suggest that being in outerspace makes it different enough to not be bored of it. I'm bored of Mario, I'm bored all of his little yelps and sounds, I'm bored of toad and princess (which is, again, who you will be saving!), I'm bored of bo-bombs, goombas, etc... I don't care for it anymore. That's all still there - the mechanics are just upgraded for wiimote. It was whored out so badly that anytime I see it I can't help but be bored by it. It's a testament to the quality of the game mechanics that I always still have a lot of fun with the games despite that negative. So I'm sure I'll still have lots of fun with Galaxy, but it wouldn't be as much fun as if Nintendo created a whole new world and characters to play with.
The funny thing is, even though you're being sarcastic, it's 100% true. I want that. I want my epic fantasy and sci fi titles, and I want more of them. That's usually when I have the most fun in games.
sp0rsk said:Okay this is just silly. Upgraded for the wiimote? Multiple branching paths, venturing from world to world with all sorts of weird propreties are just "updated for wiimote?" Can you not see the huge change in design philosophy from 64/sunshine to this?
sp0rsk said:Sorry to be blunt, you are ruining the gaming industry. (make that your tag)
Amir0x said:Hey, so now we're finally onto the gooey center of it. No. Brain Training is ruining the industry. Nintendogs is ruining the industry. It's ruining the industry exactly how it matters to me as a gamer: By putting out disgusting pieces of shit products and people actually buying them thus making more disgusting pieces of shit like it possible.
The epic sci-fi? The epic fantasy? That's not ruining the industry. That's what I have always loved, and that's not suddenly going to change because things are getting more expensive. The gameplay mechanics are phenomenal. If you got a fantastic product to support it, it's gonna win. That is why Oblivion is one of the best games ever, that is why Gears of War will probably win a ****ton of awards at the end of this year. These are products that push the limits, have huge production values, and appeal to true gamers.
Amir0x said:Hey, so now we're finally onto the gooey center of it.
Amir0x said:We're not talking about gameplay mechanics - i always enjoy that. We're talking about the abuse of the Mario "Galaxy". I'm bored of that. I don't like Mario or Princess Peach or Bowser anymore. I mean, it's ok to visit it occasionally... like in the RPGs which don't take itself seriously... but I would prefer if Nintendo created a brand new type of property with the design philosophy behind Mario or a Zelda or a Metroid. New world, new storylines, no lame boring characters that have been shown in 1000 games.
Amir0x said:I mean, it's ok to visit it occasionally... like in the RPGs which don't take itself seriously...
Amir0x said:Hey, so now we're finally onto the gooey center of it. No. Brain Training is ruining the industry. Nintendogs is ruining the industry. It's ruining the industry exactly how it matters to me as a gamer: By putting out disgusting pieces of shit products and people actually buying them thus making more disgusting pieces of shit like it possible.
Amir0x said:The epic sci-fi? The epic fantasy? That's not ruining the industry. That's what I have always loved, and that's not suddenly going to change because things are getting more expensive. The gameplay mechanics are phenomenal. If you got a fantastic product to support it, it's gonna win. That is why Oblivion is one of the best games ever, that is why Gears of War will probably win a ****ton of awards at the end of this year. These are products that push the limits, have huge production values, and appeal to true gamers.