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"I hate videogames, but I have to say this was rather good"
- Thread starter Xrenity
- Start date
Barry Lightning
Banned
OHW! OHW! is this a thread about WII???!!
i'll just take a guess and not read a single post....
i bet it's about wii...
thorsilver
Member
I'm reserving judgement on the Wii until I can get my hands on it, but I will say this: if Nintendo's philosophy on that console is as successful as it has proven to be on the DS, I will embrace it fully.
As one example, my mother is in her 50s, and yet she saw Nintendogs and had to have it. She bought a DS with the game, then graduated to other DS titles such as Mario Kart, Yoshi Touch and Go, and Trauma Centre. At the moment she's working her way through Mario 64 DS and NSMB. I've seen their new philosophy open up someone to gaming, and if they can make that work for others, then our hobby will benefit greatly from an influx of new gamers. I can't see anything wrong with that.
As one example, my mother is in her 50s, and yet she saw Nintendogs and had to have it. She bought a DS with the game, then graduated to other DS titles such as Mario Kart, Yoshi Touch and Go, and Trauma Centre. At the moment she's working her way through Mario 64 DS and NSMB. I've seen their new philosophy open up someone to gaming, and if they can make that work for others, then our hobby will benefit greatly from an influx of new gamers. I can't see anything wrong with that.
i really don't see nintendo's strategy taking anything away from videogames, only adding to it.
when i'm playing a hardcore game i enjoy it as much as anyone, but i don't want to play this kind of thing all the time. i'm happy to have alternatives.
(hardcore) gaming is here to stay. while the overall audience looks to be currently declining, this group is still *HUGE and perfectly capable of sustaining and entertaining its audience.
* - outside japan. the hardcore group is still big in japan but significantly smaller than it was, so some compromise is needed from developers there.
when i'm playing a hardcore game i enjoy it as much as anyone, but i don't want to play this kind of thing all the time. i'm happy to have alternatives.
(hardcore) gaming is here to stay. while the overall audience looks to be currently declining, this group is still *HUGE and perfectly capable of sustaining and entertaining its audience.
* - outside japan. the hardcore group is still big in japan but significantly smaller than it was, so some compromise is needed from developers there.
Y2Kevbug11 said:
Games like Doom and Gran Turismo sold TONS more than games like System Shock or Thief.
Which of these do you consider more creative?
IMO, most of today's console games aren't very creative and interesting. Bulk of them are variations of quite simple FPS or Racing mechanics or somesuch.
I have been playing games for 20 years. I welcome the Wii as a breath of fresh air. I will buy it for the new experience, and just the controller guarantees it if it is fully utilized. The games themselves remain to be seen but I have no reason to believe why the selection would be any _less_ varied than on current consoles.
Wii also has great potential for experimental games. Partly because of lower development verhead, partly because of the spark the controller brings. They could be simple, artistic, whacky and interesting. Or not.
Oh, and I also play games on my PC. I am looking forward to Gothic 3, Bioshock and Dark Messiah of Might and Magic.
Flo_Evans said:you are silly if you don't think weaker hardware doesn't impose limits on developers. work in completely new ways how? gamecube devkits are old news buddy
I don't know about you, but I enjoy good movies from the 60's just as much as good movies from 2006. It's not like the rising quality of special effects has raised the amount of good movies, is it?
The reason why I think that Wii is cool is that the controller is a whole new _medium_ in a way.
Yeah, I know that more CPU power gives possibility to make more realistic and complex physics and all. But the games that utilise it in a meaningful gameplay-affecting way are not numerous. And some of that is because of new algorithms, not necessarily just CPU power. Also flipping a barrel with the movement of my hand is more interesting at this point than only seeing it flip over, to me.
I wouldn't mind if Wii had more power, but as somebody said, most of the power of 360 and PS3 will probably go towards sharper graphics for HD displays - if you _really_ think about it. I can't see any signs that point otherwise.
Or what is the game that gives us a fundamentally new experience because of the power of the 360 or PS3?
Bizarro Sun Yat-sen
Banned
You don't need special effects to make a visually rich movie, since you can simply film reality (or draw/animate it frame by frame if you have enough time and manpower). The situation is different for games with real-time graphics (and world simulation, AI...) and really a better analogy would be to cinema in the 1890s-1920s.
drohne said:
Maybe I don't understand enough about the Wii and how its videogames are going to be, but how does your analogy work? Is the Wii and its nature going to rob videogames of their substance? Will games be simple and immediately satisfying, but necessarily lack the (implied) depth and substance that traditional games possess?drohne said:
The reasons for people hating videogames are not the same as for people who hate rewarding books or music.
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
we must face the awful possibility that we may hold too dearly to the shmup.
What's funny is that some of these "Nintendo isn't making good games" folks are starting to sound remarkably similar to the zealots who complain that Nintendo ruined video games in the first place, by shifting away from quarter-munching / high score / "skill based" games to games with endings.
(Granted, I'd have to go dig up quotes now, which I probably can't find anymore, but I do remember running into zealots going on and on about how the traditional action style games were better than the NES stuff due to the difference between NES "beatable" games and Atari/arcade "skill games".)
(Granted, I'd have to go dig up quotes now, which I probably can't find anymore, but I do remember running into zealots going on and on about how the traditional action style games were better than the NES stuff due to the difference between NES "beatable" games and Atari/arcade "skill games".)
Are you a developer? I'm pretty sure you're not. You really don't have to understand why lots of developers feel that the Wii is very stimulating to their imagination (and far fewer complain about the relatively low specs), you just have to realize that it's true.Flo_Evans said:you are silly if you don't think weaker hardware doesn't impose limits on developers. work in completely new ways how? gamecube devkits are old news buddy
Right, because videogame technology has evolved more in the last 2-3 years than cinematography has in the last 100.Bizarro Sun Yat-sen said:
No special effects, NO COLOR and NO SOUND (both introduced around 1930) makes slightly more difference than the last 2 years advances in videogame technology.
Bizarro Sun Yat-sen
Banned
The point is that incremental advances early on were more significant than incremental advances later. But yes, I'd say that the last 10 or 15 years of advances in computer hardware capabilities are in fact comparable to the introduction of color and synchronized sound (filmmakers experimented with "special effects" pretty much from the beginning), maybe even more important.
High barriers to entry are never a good thing, for any entertainment medium. With any of them, we all start out with things that're accessible before branching out into more "sophisticated" territory. The nice thing about Nintendo is that they can provide on both ends of the spectrum - the accessible stuff, and the more hardcore fare as well. They're like the Beatles of videogames.
edit: Hence why Drinky Crow hates them.
edit: Hence why Drinky Crow hates them.
Annoying Old Party Man
Member
Let's just say the Wii may end up the machine for people who don't know they love videogames, instead of the people who hate videogames.
If the Wii manages to make itself the "social console" it will be a great victory, for nintendo that wants to expand its audience and for me/us gamers who want to share videogames with their friends, close ones and families
If the Wii manages to make itself the "social console" it will be a great victory, for nintendo that wants to expand its audience and for me/us gamers who want to share videogames with their friends, close ones and families
Something funny that I noticed in threads like these.
If Nintendo makes non-games:
OMG NINTENDO'S RUINING THE INDUSTRY BY APPEALING TO NON-GAMERS! WHAT ABOUT ME, AND MY HARDCORE GAMER NEEDS?!
If someone mentions that Nintendo's not forgetting Mario and Zelda:
OMG THAT'S PRETTY ORIGINAL NINTENDO YOU'D THINK THINK THEY WOULD MAKE SOMETHING NEW BY NOW
If Nintendo makes non-games:
OMG NINTENDO'S RUINING THE INDUSTRY BY APPEALING TO NON-GAMERS! WHAT ABOUT ME, AND MY HARDCORE GAMER NEEDS?!
If someone mentions that Nintendo's not forgetting Mario and Zelda:
OMG THAT'S PRETTY ORIGINAL NINTENDO YOU'D THINK THINK THEY WOULD MAKE SOMETHING NEW BY NOW
Oblivion said:
right right, but that wasn't what was being said. You said you find it odd that they say these things, when it's quite easy to reconcile it. I'm bored of the Mario "galaxy" (pun intended), but I still can enjoy those games. So it would be nice if I can have a game where I wasn't ****ing bored of seeing a stubby italian plumber and his mushroom kingdom, because that'd make it even better!
Amir0x said:
but galaxy doesnt look like any of the previous mario games aside from having some koopas and marios...
Also
indeed, WE NEED MORE EPICS! Without our scifi and fantasy epics, what is left for games? Surely we will be put in the gaming ghetto. Scholars who tend to praise this great medium as a bastion for creativity would shun us. I fear for what nintendos future brings.
PkunkFury
Member
seriously, Wii sports existed in the 80s. It was called World Class Track Meet. It didn't kill real video games on the NES, and it won't kill them on the Wii. But it did offer up a fun party game that most people my age remember enjoying to this day. That's all Wii sports is meant to be, why should it have to be anything else?
sp0rsk said:
I'm sorry, that's a pretty weak attempt to try to justify Nintendo's sluting of Mario. To suggest that being in outerspace makes it different enough to not be bored of it. I'm bored of Mario, I'm bored all of his little yelps and sounds, I'm bored of toad and princess (which is, again, who you will be saving!), I'm bored of bo-bombs, goombas, etc... I don't care for it anymore. That's all still there - the mechanics are just upgraded for wiimote. It was whored out so badly that anytime I see it I can't help but be bored by it. It's a testament to the quality of the game mechanics that I always still have a lot of fun with the games despite that negative. So I'm sure I'll still have lots of fun with Galaxy, but it wouldn't be as much fun as if Nintendo created a whole new world and characters to play with.
sp0rsks said:
The funny thing is, even though you're being sarcastic, it's 100% true. I want that. I want my epic fantasy and sci fi titles, and I want more of them. That's usually when I have the most fun in games.
Amir0x said:
Okay this is just silly. Upgraded for the wiimote? Multiple branching paths, venturing from world to world with all sorts of weird propreties are just "updated for wiimote?" Can you not see the huge change in design philosophy from 64/sunshine to this?
Sorry to be blunt, you are ruining the gaming industry. (make that your tag)
sp0rsk said:
We're not talking about gameplay mechanics - i always enjoy that. We're talking about the abuse of the Mario "Galaxy". I'm bored of that. I don't like Mario or Princess Peach or Bowser anymore. I mean, it's ok to visit it occasionally... like in the RPGs which don't take itself seriously... but I would prefer if Nintendo created a brand new type of property with the design philosophy behind Mario or a Zelda or a Metroid. New world, new storylines, no lame boring characters that have been shown in 1000 games.
So, for simple summary:
Game Design Philosophy of a Mario/Metroid/Zelda + Completely new characters/world = more fun than one or the other.
sp0rsk said:
Hey, so now we're finally onto the gooey center of it. No. Brain Training is ruining the industry. Nintendogs is ruining the industry. It's ruining the industry exactly how it matters to me as a gamer: By putting out disgusting pieces of shit products and people actually buying them thus making more disgusting pieces of shit like it possible.
The epic sci-fi? The epic fantasy? That's not ruining the industry. That's what I have always loved, and that's not suddenly going to change because things are getting more expensive. The gameplay mechanics are phenomenal. If you got a fantastic product to support it, it's gonna win. That is why Oblivion is one of the best games ever, that is why Gears of War will probably win a ****ton of awards at the end of this year. These are products that push the limits, have huge production values, and appeal to true gamers.
Amir0x said:
That's awfully shortsighted of you. The true merit behind Brain Training and Nintendogs isn't that they're well-made nongames. It's that people, after seeing their success, have been coming forth with their own ideas. The fact that Wii has a controller that you can move in 3D space or use as a sword isn't exciting. The fact that it's been making people think about how to design games differently is. Again, Sonic Wild Fire could've easily been done on other systems. So could Super Mario Galaxy. The point is they weren't, for whatever reason, until the wiimote came into play. Hell, there's still Sonic the Hedgehog on X360 and PS3 that pretty much demonstrates the series might not've ever gotten out of its rut (if Wild Fire does end up as good as impressions at E3 led to believe).
And it's not like these epic stories and huge fantasy games are going away. This is Nintendo. They hardly make that stuff to begin with (with the exception of Zelda, Fire Emblem, and possibly Metroid). There's definitely going to be more in the future- on Wii or not. Your fears are unfounded and to be frank, quite silly.
Amir0x said:
It appears that the gooey centre has more to do with window dressing than actual gameplay.
perhaps they should replace dumb old boring mario with some cool old men in power suits. or maybe some sweet new mascot with an extreme attitude.
seriously, slapping new characters onto super mario galaxy would be completely redundant. the game isn't about the characters at all. it's about jumping on things.
PkunkFury
Member
Amir0x said:
If Mario should still be featured in any games, they are games which involve running around and jumping, like Mario Galaxy. Why try to market a new character/franchise for the same game mechanics, especially when NSMB is topping charts? It's like asking Kojima to replace Snake with a new main character in Metal Gear
I agree Mario should be dumped from the spinoff titles, which seems to be happening if Wii Sports is any indication.
Amir0x said:
because the other Mario games take themselves very seriosuly
Amir0x said:
Right, with all of the terrible bargain bin racers and games staring Nicktoons that get purchased in droves at WalMart, peices of shit like Brain Training are ruining the industry. There are a lot of truly bad games out there. games that are beyond frusterating, buggy, and actually cause people to write of the entire medium. Nintendogs and Brain Training aren't your cup of tea, but can you really argue that they don't do what they mean to accomplish well?
Amir0x said:
There's so much wrong with this. So everyone should play the types of games you've always loved, and ONLY the games you've always loved? I like epic games too, but if I didn't have MonkeyBall or Tetris to play in between I'd be burnt out on this hobby pretty quick. I haven't had the time to touch an RPG since I graduated high school. And the gameplay mechanics are phenomenal? Because these games are epic? Can games that aren't epic not have phenomenal gameplay mechanics? I like my gameplay in pure concentrated form, undilluted by story, presentation, and length of content. Does that make me less of a gamer? And certainly Nintendogs and Brain Training are pushing limits. They challange the limits of the type of content acceptable on traditional consoles, which is exactly what you are bitching about. Games can grow in more directions than production value.