I'm not sure what you're trying to say. I said I like how Rare's characters look in-game. What does SMRPG Bowser have to do with anything?
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I love Rare, but they created two of the most repulsive characters in Donkey Kong 64.
- Thread starter Watch Da Birdie
- Start date
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
He's still upset that no one likes K Rool.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
I like K. Rool, but I do think Rare set out to make him sort of unappealing and ugly...after all, he was a villain, and unlike Japanese media which tends to make good-looking or cute villains, Western media tends to be more willing to make them ugly.
I mean, he's got a really weird eye that's pulsing red, a comically fat and disproportionate body with moobs and an outie-belly button, and I always thought as this pose demonstrates he was also intended to come across as a bit effeminate (the television show played this up even more), which is a common othering element applied to a lot of villains since the average heteronormative audience finds that an undesirable trait. Of course, disliking K. Rool doesn't mean you hate fat people or are homophobic---Rare designed the character using stereotypical elements in mind to be off-putting, and finding that off-putting doesn't mean you think the groups it stereotypes are off-putting themselves. It's actually why I don't get Gonzo why you think people disliking K. Rool means they hate fat people, since it doesn't seem like Rare intended him to be a body-positive character. Troff and Scoff seems to suggest they just see "fat" as an easy off-putting characteristic to give to a villain, or use as a comedic element, which happens often throughout their games.
I'm mixed on some of Nintendo's post-Rare designs of the DK crew, but I think they actually made K. Rool far more aesthetically pleasing without totally betraying the original design. I forgot where this design comes from...his appearance in Mario Baseball wasn't this one, and I found that one actually pretty poor, but this one is good and I'll be pleased to see something like this in possibly Retro Donkey Kong or Smash in the future:
His eye has been toned down, and overall he's still round without being grotesquely disproportionate and awkward looking. Also a far more inviting color-scheme.
I mean, he's got a really weird eye that's pulsing red, a comically fat and disproportionate body with moobs and an outie-belly button, and I always thought as this pose demonstrates he was also intended to come across as a bit effeminate (the television show played this up even more), which is a common othering element applied to a lot of villains since the average heteronormative audience finds that an undesirable trait. Of course, disliking K. Rool doesn't mean you hate fat people or are homophobic---Rare designed the character using stereotypical elements in mind to be off-putting, and finding that off-putting doesn't mean you think the groups it stereotypes are off-putting themselves. It's actually why I don't get Gonzo why you think people disliking K. Rool means they hate fat people, since it doesn't seem like Rare intended him to be a body-positive character. Troff and Scoff seems to suggest they just see "fat" as an easy off-putting characteristic to give to a villain, or use as a comedic element, which happens often throughout their games.
I'm mixed on some of Nintendo's post-Rare designs of the DK crew, but I think they actually made K. Rool far more aesthetically pleasing without totally betraying the original design. I forgot where this design comes from...his appearance in Mario Baseball wasn't this one, and I found that one actually pretty poor, but this one is good and I'll be pleased to see something like this in possibly Retro Donkey Kong or Smash in the future:
His eye has been toned down, and overall he's still round without being grotesquely disproportionate and awkward looking. Also a far more inviting color-scheme.
Gonzo The Great
Banned
And people say I'm hostile
Jesus Christ
I posted a picture of a horribly drawn Bowser to complement your point about not putting any stock into early CGI character renders from the 90s. Bowser looking like shit in this form doesn't mean the character is badly designed.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
That reminds me I can't imagine how Geno would actually look outside the SMRPG art-style, his design doesn't seem like it'd really lend itself well to a full 3D render in Smash.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Though he'll never be in Smash, to make it up to you here's a K Rool Amiibo just for you:
EatinOlives
Member
Why the fuck are people hating on characters based on their 90s renders?
Like Gonzo said everyone and everything looked like absolute shit in 90s renders.
In-game models were a completely different story:
https://youtu.be/0xDQUDT87VM?t=182
^Because I couldn't find a good picture of them in-game.
Like Gonzo said everyone and everything looked like absolute shit in 90s renders.
In-game models were a completely different story:
https://youtu.be/0xDQUDT87VM?t=182
^Because I couldn't find a good picture of them in-game.
I wasn't being hostile. I legitimately didn't understand what you were trying to say, lol.
fabricated backlash
Member
In game the characters looked fine for the era, but the CG renders were hot garbage stylistically.
In Fact I'd have to say that Rares designs were so tightly focused around their respective game world that they simply don't work outside of that context or backdrop.
So no, old Rare wasn't overrated, they were the best at what they did and their games from the SNES/N64 era are rightfully regarded as classics... yeah even despite their flaws and sometimes abstruse designs.
They were unique, and still are, and the level of dedication to detail and content was unparalleled back then. Hell I'd argue that Perfect Dark is still to this day unmatched on consoles when it comes to game modes, options, challenges, map count, weapon count and gender representation out of the box.
In Fact I'd have to say that Rares designs were so tightly focused around their respective game world that they simply don't work outside of that context or backdrop.
So no, old Rare wasn't overrated, they were the best at what they did and their games from the SNES/N64 era are rightfully regarded as classics... yeah even despite their flaws and sometimes abstruse designs.
They were unique, and still are, and the level of dedication to detail and content was unparalleled back then. Hell I'd argue that Perfect Dark is still to this day unmatched on consoles when it comes to game modes, options, challenges, map count, weapon count and gender representation out of the box.
I feel like Rares biggest problem historically was that they never really realized when enough was enough. If collecting "100 notes in a level is cool, then collecting 100 bananas 6x with different characters will be even better!"
This is that game where someone should have asked if it was fun. They just went way overboard on the collection.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Beren the Empty-Handed
Member
Thread should have been called "I love Rare, but they created Donkey Kong 64." Everything still would have applied.
Crimsonclaw111
Member
chronic_archaic
Member
Looking back, artistically the post Nintendo era definitely seems to hold up way better. Kameo, Viva Pinata, and Star Fox Adventures all look great. Then again, like others pointed out the 90s renders do look like trash.
SuperAngelo64
Banned
All of Rare's designs look like poorly designed mascots for Mexican snack foods.
Those were the original proportions, before Miyamoto "suggested" they change them.
nephilimdj
Member
Rare just loved making creepy stuff
Nintendoga
Member
You can only appreciate those type of renders and graphics in the 90s. DK's got the right idea.
Dark Ninja
Member
Kiddy Kong is the worst character. He ruined Donkey Kong Country 3
tiggerkiddo
Member
I dunno, I found those 3D renders of their characters from the 90's had an odd charm to them. They certainly aren't perfect.
Shuggananas
Banned
Nah, that award goes to post PS2 era Naughty Dog.
In MONOLITH's defence, when talking about characters design, only the faces are bad. The designs overall are usually okay or good most of the time (save from a few outfits). And enemy and world design are superb.
As much as I love RARE's output from the SNES and N64 era, the character designs are mostly just bad. But maybe that was a 90s thing. Because they didn't bother me too much back in the time.
Bomber Bob
Banned
Exactly. Aside from Diddy every other character that Rare introduced into the Kongverse(?) can only be described as ugly and repulsive.
Yeah, they've never been much good on that front.
Seems like they're more popular than they've ever been right now though, but I get that this was probs just an irrelevant knee jerk response.
DOWN
Banned
Is this Splatoon?their characters are always fucking hideous
Lanky was the greatest surprise! I want to see him return so bad.
Stone Ocean
Member
Those remind me of those fat enemies from Battletoads. Doesn't look so bad
Wait...Wrinkly Kong is dead? Da freak!
DICKS AHOY
Banned
stop shitting on my childhood you assholes
Nah, that ain't the case. I'll refrain from driving the thread into irrelevant territory though. On topic, I still stand that Rare isn't overrated, their general style in both games and design just seems to rub people the wrong way.
Leafhopper
Banned
Have some class.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Rare is overrated in the sense that none of their games when you replay them without the context of hype or rose-tinted glasses are THE BEST GAME EVER MADE material some of the press made out at the time because the graphics were pretty.
However it absolutely isn't in terms of most of their output being good to excellent. DKC shows its age but DKC2 is still tied with Yoshi's Island as the best SNES game to me. Art styles are always subjective, but whether it's the low resolution that saves them or just the gameplay/music holding things up, I think the DKC trilogy and BK games look great. Like an earlier poster said, the 90's CGI art can age like shit sometimes (and Rare isn't remotely the only ones who suffered from this), but in their actual games those designs worked perfectly fine. People like to exaggerate
However it absolutely isn't in terms of most of their output being good to excellent. DKC shows its age but DKC2 is still tied with Yoshi's Island as the best SNES game to me. Art styles are always subjective, but whether it's the low resolution that saves them or just the gameplay/music holding things up, I think the DKC trilogy and BK games look great. Like an earlier poster said, the 90's CGI art can age like shit sometimes (and Rare isn't remotely the only ones who suffered from this), but in their actual games those designs worked perfectly fine. People like to exaggerate
though candy kong and fat man nipples everywhere are admittedly questionable
Starwolf_UK
Member
I'll always be left second guessing with Rare. Especially now given Gruntilda Winkybunion in Banjo-Kazooie and the sound composer pointing out at this years AGDQ that winky is sang for a penis and not once did Nintendo ask about that, they were concerned with the "thank you for playing" voice though as Nintendo thought it was saying "fuck you". It seems like an odd thing to bring up unless it was an intentional joke.
As for using a lot of bananas to prop open a door a scale could have been used but I suppose they needed an NPC for the process.
I've heard this is due to not wanting to use characters introduced after DKC1 (something about planning starting at the same time as the rest of the DKC trilogy) but then Wrinkly is included making no sense of that.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I'd argue that Banjo-Kazooie still qualifies today. It's a near perfect 3D platformer.
I also believe Blast Corps could be placed at that level as well.