SEGAvangelist
Member
ICE Team is part of Naughty Dog right? Does this mean Uncharted 4 is going to be 30 fps now?
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ICE Team Programmer on 60 fps : I like 30 fps more with all the bells & whistles
- Thread starter Conduit
- Start date
Handy Fake
Member
Having higher standards means being cult-like?
As in "stop acting like an utter cult".
DigitalDevilSummoner
zero cognitive reasoning abilities
Lower than what ? Cinematic is buzzword to be made fun of sure but you cannot ridicule the idea of a steady 30 framerate just because you can play the game a year later on your GTX 970, making believe you'reuncomprimised. Because I can always use the card that the game is produced with the mindset that it will play on a certain hardware or at least a certain range of hardware, not the hardware adopted by a small percentage of gamers.
Begaria
Member
That suspiciously sounds like your personal opinion. Personally, I'd leave the whistles and take the bells @ 60fps since Bells > Whistles.
nelsonroyale
Member
I agree.
Well anything could count since gameplay logic is off course part of the 16.6ms cycle, but as an example the amount of objects and characters, physics simulation in gameplay, collisions etc.
Did he mention anything about UC4?
No. Why would it mean that?
XxRampage07xX
Member
Why?
Sorry man but being a huge MMO player there is a HUGE difference between playing a MMO at 20FPS and 60FPS. The game is more enjoyable, WAY smoother and feels over all better. And most people will be able to tell the difference in a MMO especially between 30 and 60fps.
And I am all for 60fps, I will sacrifice whatever dumb "bloom" or particle effect which chugs things down to 20fps to get a solid, good 60fps. On consoles, I understand, you guys don't have much choice, so you kinda have to accept it.
One could argue there's nothing "literally wrong" with 15 or 20 fps, it's all preference as to what you find acceptable for a game.
Bear in mind that gameplay logic is largely CPU-bound, whereas I suspect the bottleneck the 'bells and whistles' bring into play comes from the GPU.
ICE team is within ND but they're not all working on ND games. Some work with the SDK and general PS related coding. Even if this guy was working on Uncharted 4, don't know if he is, his personal preference doesn't override what his bosses would be telling him to do.
Horsemama1956
Member
30 fps bothers my eyes, I loved all 3 Gears of War, but my eyes would get fatigued pretty quickly playing that. It's also really hard to switch from 30 fps and 60 fps constantly(Console to PC). Controls feel really off as well at 30 fps.
dead monkey uk
Member
As he work for ICE I do not think you need to worry about the PCs framerate.
Thank you.
Also Crash Bandicoot 2 at 24 fps. And a very loved game.
30 fps can make a game be better even if it plays a bit worse.
The only genre that can really suffer from 30 fps are shooters, where precision and speed matters most. But even shooters can be enjoyable at 30 if they are programmed well enough.
But it's still a fact that in some games, what can be done due to 30 fps are better than the smoothness lost.
The_Player
Member
It's not a preference. 60FPS objectively better than 30FPS. It's that time when quantity means quality. Sure you can stay at 30 FPS and get a more pretty picture, but if you would have the same picture with 60FPS then it's a supreme option in comparison to the lesser FPS one.
GeordieMark
Member
The whole frame-rate/visual fidelity argument is about trade-offs. Although it would be nice to have it all, it isn't always possible.
I think the reason 30fps is used so often on concoles is that screenshots and gameplay vids are selling games on graphics. It's an easier sell than saying "hey, look how smooth our game runs!".
I think the reason 30fps is used so often on concoles is that screenshots and gameplay vids are selling games on graphics. It's an easier sell than saying "hey, look how smooth our game runs!".
If you held a gun to my head and asked me whether or not a game I was playing ran at 30FPS or 60FPS, I would probably be wrong half the time. I honestly cannot tell in most cases, at least visually. The only time I can really tell whether a game is running at 30 or 60 is when the game requires split second decision making, such as fighting or racing games, and that has everything to do with input delay and nothing with visual fidelity.
I can understand that different people experience this in different ways, but the crusade against everyone that doesn't think the difference between 30FPS and 60FPS is huge is getting on my nerves. As long as there are no frame drops I don't care about 30FPS/60FPS, and I'd wager a ton of people agree with that sentiment. Considering you have literally twice the rendering power available to you at 30FPS I don't see why it's unthinkable that some people might prefer 30FPS, as it means the visual fidelity of the game is improved a ton.
I'd love for there to be graphics options on consoles like TLOU: Remastered has, though. That way everyone can simply pick and choose, but I'm not sure how feasible that is in every game because that would involve twice the QA to make sure everything not only works right, but works right for both the graphics presets.
I can understand that different people experience this in different ways, but the crusade against everyone that doesn't think the difference between 30FPS and 60FPS is huge is getting on my nerves. As long as there are no frame drops I don't care about 30FPS/60FPS, and I'd wager a ton of people agree with that sentiment. Considering you have literally twice the rendering power available to you at 30FPS I don't see why it's unthinkable that some people might prefer 30FPS, as it means the visual fidelity of the game is improved a ton.
I'd love for there to be graphics options on consoles like TLOU: Remastered has, though. That way everyone can simply pick and choose, but I'm not sure how feasible that is in every game because that would involve twice the QA to make sure everything not only works right, but works right for both the graphics presets.
dead monkey uk
Member
The gameplay demo was 30fps, so it looks like it will be. The LoU was just a tease.
After playing MK8, I have seen the light with 60fps. Going back to 30fps in 4 player multiplayer was like hitting a brickwall.
I was hoping devs would choose 60fps over bells and whistles but oh well. Nintendo seems to be trying hard to get 60fps even with a console not up to par with the others.
I was hoping devs would choose 60fps over bells and whistles but oh well. Nintendo seems to be trying hard to get 60fps even with a console not up to par with the others.
TheBioLover
Member
I wouldn't jump to conclusions.
blitzcloud
Banned
Dictator93
Member
That is a thing, it would lead to technically more accurate / more recent info when the frame finally scans out, but that frame would scan out all the same @ 30hz. The input lag would feel pretty similar.
ShutterMunster
Junior Member
And /endthread
But seriously frame rate is just not the end all be all for me. I really dig it for fighting and sports games but I don't need it for everything.
Indeed, better fidelity with solid 30 FPS can look outstanding.
Meh, fair enough. Understand where he is coming from, at least it's not any of that lower fps = more cinematic rubbish. Would probably have to compare just how much difference going down to 30 fps would make, so it's not always a case of me preferring one or the other.
He says that this is all his personal preference. Even if he was working on UC4, he wouldn't influence whether it was 30 or 60 fps.
He says that this is all his personal preference. Even if he was working on UC4, he wouldn't influence whether it was 30 or 60 fps.
Dragon1893
Member
Exactly.
Besides, if ND goes with 60fps people will be all over them because UC4 is not the best looking game EVAH.
If they do go with 30 others will be criticizing them for going back on their word.
And unfortunately there will also be those who will complain in both situations.
I'll leave it to their best judgement, only they will get to see firsthand what kind of compromises each frame-rate implies.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
Locked 30 fps is best for some types of games, 60 fps is better for others.
Lock TLoU at 30 FPS, play for 10 minutes or so. Then go to option and unlock the frame rate again.
I began that game at 30 FPS, switched to 60 FPS about an hour in. Wow, it made a huge difference. Gameplay movement just felt better imo.
And for me, Gameplay > Everything else.
Neue Regel
Banned
A lot of PC gamers are so because of high framerates, so I doubt they'd agree with it. Nothing wrong with disagreeing with his opinion either.
Schweinehund
Member
His reasoning is solid, but I still prefer 60 fps for most games.
Honestly, my big issue with Uncharted 4 ending up being 30fps isn't as much a 30 versus 60 issue as much as it is releasing footage at 60fps and claiming it was real time. They could internally pursue 60 and just announce it at a later date, instead of announcing and showing it early and not being able to do it. It would be a rookie move from a dev that should know better. It's not like releasing 30fps footage of Uncharted would have been a surprise to most people. It's become something now that is more likely to result in bad PR than something that could have been potential awesome news down the line or simply nothing.
Arne said we won't get any more framerate info for a while so I guess we'll just have to wait and see.