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[AbsoluteZero]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uHZwxyssWU Nice visual comparison between the two rivals.

Anyway the visuals are much closer now than in the PSP / DS era

Oh hey, check out what's in the description.

This is just a theoretical/parody aka fake comparison. Don't get your panties in a bunch.

Try again.

 

[Saint Gregory]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uHZwxyssWU Nice visual comparison between the two rivals.

Anyway the visuals are much closer now than in the PSP / DS era

What is this? Is the 3DS getting a port of BBS while Vita is getting a remake?

Oh hey, check out what's in the description.



Try again.

Oh, that makes sense. I'd still like to know where the upgraded footage came from.

 

[Frencherman]

Seriously, did you just link to a comparison video between BBS and the ending movie in KH2:FM and call it a comparison between the Vita and the 3DS? Really?

Sorry, I do not know those games :/

 

[Lonely1]

Since it IS an old game, one would think it wouldn't be hard to have visual parity in 2D/3D. But this is not the case.

It being "old" has nothing to do with it. Is a fact that stereoscopic rendering requires more resources. The only way you will achieve parity is if your nerf the 2D version visuals. (like Ridge Racer) and that isn't good for anyone.

 

[AbsoluteZero]

Though I'm still impressed that that's on the PSP. Makes me want to give that Kingdom Hearts nonsense a try.

Sorry, I do not know those games :/

Just had to read the description of the youtube video.

 

[Lesiroth]

Sorry, I do not know those games :/

Ok, no harm done

It being "old" has nothing to do with it. Is a fact that stereoscopic rendering requires more resources. The only way you will achieve parity is if your nerf the 2D version visuals. (like Ridge Racer) and that isn't good for anyone.

The point he's making is that the 2D visuals aren't that advanced as it is, it doesn't really need anymore nerfing.

 

[Taiser]

3DS vs. PS Vita - Will History Repeat Itself?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYUEiUtmbqQ

 

[nelsonroyale]

For me better graphics>>>>3d... I will only be interested in 3d when it is full 3d, not pop up art

 

[Apath]

Seriously, did you just link to a comparison video between BBS and the ending movie in KH2:FM and call it a comparison between the Vita and the 3DS? Really?

I'm sure it's just a troll video. Pretty hilarious though.

EDIT: Beaten =[

 

[lwilliams3]

For me better graphics>>>>3d... I will only be interested in 3d when it is full 3d, not pop up art

On the 3DS, that would vary per game. Most games use the 3D to give you depth instead of just popping stuff out the screen.

 

[Alrus]

For me better graphics>>>>3d... I will only be interested in 3d when it is full 3d, not pop up art

What does that even mean?

 

[Cygnus X-1]

PSV will close the marketshare gap a little, but 3DS will still be #1 by a landslide.

I wonder if this matters anymore, since iOS are more and more eating the handheld space.

3DS has the advantage that has something that other portable systems haven't. It's up to Nintendo to develop the right software to convince us it's not a gimmick.

 

[Lonely1]

The point he's making is that the 2D visuals aren't that advanced as it is, it doesn't really need anymore nerfing.

Pica200 isn't great in the AA department. :/

 

[Gospel]

What does that even mean?

 

[MalboroRed]

I'm trying too hard? You're the one convinced that the 3DS is nothing more than a squashed PS2, when we have games that look comparable to freaking RE5 . You are ignoring your own eyes.

You're ignoring your own eyes if you think RE 3DS is comparable to RE5, RE4 maybe.

 

[lwilliams3]

The point he's making is that the 2D visuals aren't that advanced as it is, it doesn't really need anymore nerfing.

Actually, Nintendo doubled the GPU power of the 3DS when it was redesigned to render 3D, so the system wasn't "nerfed" at all. The extra resources available when using 2D is basically a bonus.

 

[Dr_Peace]

It really seems like you haven't touched a 3DS. What about the framerate problems 3D induces?

I've got no case to prove. Nintendo has done it for me. Many games thus far run worse in 3D and lose visual features they have in 2D. Fact.

Zelda has AA in 2D, not in 3D. By turning off 3D mode, while playing, I am instantly treated to AA in 2D. That is what the slider is for. Since it IS an old game, one would think it wouldn't be hard to have visual parity in 2D/3D. But this is not the case.

But, you know, since you're a PC gamer, that renders the FACT that this happens in an already existing game moot, I suppose.

Oh I've played with one, I just haven't bothered to buy one and don't intend to get old games on it either.

Assuming games do trigger a full screen rendering effect automatically when you turn the 3D down (which still seems anecdotal to me), and not restarting the engine like most games do.

So what?

Games don't always run at their best, that's a fact of gaming life. Ocarina of Time is a case in point, the original didn't exactly have a great framerate, and yet did quite well don't you know. Better quit gaming if you expect a solid 30/60 frames for everything.

That doesn't change the fact that 3D is one hell of a selling point, the majority won't miss a few frames.

 

[Saint Gregory]

For me better graphics>>>>3d... I will only be interested in 3d when it is full 3d, not pop up art

While I don't know exactly what you mean here I will say that as a 3DS owner I'm not finding the effect to be worth it at this point. It's less than a gimmick as it actually makes the gameplay worse in a few of the games I own like SSFIV and DOA. Not only does it cut the framerate of those games in half but it makes the action harder to see because of all the crosstalk if you're not looking exactly at the screen's sweetspot. Trying to reach buttons while playing a fighting game and keeping the system still at the same time is really difficult. There are games out now and coming soon that are 60fps/3D but the crosstalk issue won't be addressed until they get better screen technology.

You would think a company as experienced as Nintendo would have picked up issues like that during R&D.

 

[Jokeropia]

Sure. But the diagram depicted a certain, shall we say, attitude that was not present until the Wii/DS gen. Before that it was a lot of hand-wringing and stress over whether or not Nintendo would eventually bail, as they were selling fewer units each gen since the SNES.

The doom and gloom talk was as misguided then as it is now. Nintendo has been the most profitable company in the industry since forever.

Pokemon, Mario staples, sure. That's kind of a wide brush you're painting with there, though. Are you saying that Call of Duty and the like are something to sneeze at? It's a very big pool. They both sell exttremely well, I don't see how the sales of one invalidates the other.

The difference is that CoD is comparatively unproven on handhelds and only compete with the top Nintendo games if you combine all platforms. How large percentage of CoD sales do you think will go to Vita?

Disagree all you like, it's not really defensible. Modern capacitive screens are just so much more sensitive and faster to respond. It's only the DS's tiny screens that make it necessary to use a stylus

False. A stylus offers superior accuracy, this is undeniable. That's why people don't use drawing tablets with their fingers.

Yes but again this is not a binary thing, it's not a zero-sum game. Saying that one 5-million selling game doesn't count somehow because another game sells 8 million is ... weird.

The difference is actually larger than that, but the point is that Vita does not have the advantage in this area. If you agree with that then we can drop this point.

 

[Skilletor]

Oh I've played with one, I just haven't bothered to buy one and don't intend to get old games on it either.

Assuming games do trigger a full screen rendering effect automatically when you turn the 3D down (which still seems anecdotal to me), and not restarting the engine like most games do.

So what?

Games don't always run at their best, that's a fact of gaming life. Ocarina of Time is a case in point, the original didn't exactly have a great framerate, and yet did quite well don't you know. Better quit gaming if you expect a solid 30/60 frames for everything.

That doesn't change the fact that 3D is one hell of a selling point, the majority won't miss a few frames.

I think you've lost sight of what you were arguing. So your defense is, "Deal with it?"

And since you don't have hands-on time with the games I have, and have experienced the problems I've stated, maybe you should say that instead of spouting inanities.

 

[staticneuron]

The difference (ratio) of RAM between the 3DS and PSP is the same between the PSP (3000) and the DSi.

DSi: 16MB
PSP: 64MB
3DS: 128MB

Your math is off. The 3DS has twice as much ram as the PSP2000+ and the PSP 2000+ has Four times as much ram as the DSi.


+: and newer models

Since I find people veered towards power when determining market viability, What type of hardware "justifies" the cost of a console? Doesn't this have a bearing when talking about the future of these two handhelds?

 

[Amir0x]

I definitely think it'll be closer than last gen, but I think Nintendo will still pull it out by a substantial margin.

 

[KingJ2002]

Hmmmm... i'm not sure i should contribute to this thread since i have no desire to own either the PSV or the 3DS.

buuuuuuut from what i see...

Sony has a device that can bring a unique gaming experience to users.
they will need to make sure that their games stand out and the system is more than just an extension of the PS3 because handheld gamers are different from console gamers. If they can deliver experiences completely unique to the PSV then the system should sell on it's own gaming merits. Harping on graphical capability and pick up and play PS3 "transfarring" type titles is the wrong way to go about it. I mean.. who is going to buy two different versions of the same game?

Nintendo 3DS on the other hand will be tough to beat... if Nintendo can deliver convincing experiences with the 3D then they will have another DS like revolution. Nintendo's library of games keeps them leaps and bounds above anything Sony can throw at them at the moment.
As long as nintendo and their partners really create 3D titles that's more than just a pop up effect... then it will win... if not... Nintendo will find that their market share will be eaten by the PSV and iPhone.

Also the system could use a redesign and battery life improvements... hopefully their R&D labs have this on their radar.

 

[Saint Gregory]

Also the system could use a redesign and battery life improvements... hopefully their R&D labs have this on their radar.

My gut tells me that Nintendo is working on a major redesign of the 3DS, something akin to the shift in design from the GBA to the GBASP. I think they they're going to go for a smartphone-like design to compliment the Wii U tablet if anything.

Although my gut also tells me that I'm getting fat so I try not to listen to it anymore.

 

[Skilletor]

I hope there is a 3DS XL. Thing is too small for me.

 

[casuallyhardcore]

I like how every knows the exact reason for the failure/success of a specific piece of hardware.

there's too many factors not being considered.

Hard to tell how things will turn out between the two... all I know, is I'm going to own both.

 

[Lone_Prodigy]

I've only sunk 80 hours into Pokemon Black and I already want a sixth gen. GF keeps gimping the competitive scene.

 

[MRORANGE]

considering I cannot see 3D and the fact that Nintendo still wont bring the price down leads me to get the PSVita, granted I do hope to get a 3DS after the 2nd revision of the handheld and when the price is better.

 

[radioheadrule83]

My gut tells me that Nintendo is working on a major redesign of the 3DS, something akin to the shift in design from the GBA to the GBASP. I think they they're going to go for a smartphone-like design to compliment the Wii U tablet if anything.

Not. A. Chance.

It actually fits in a pocket already, it'd be difficult to make it much smaller, and I don't see what the benefit would be. If anything an XL edition is more likely.

I could see them packing higher capacity batteries in future, maybe ironing out subtle issues that the initial batch have experienced, but I don't think there will be a major cosmetic change being worked on at all right now outside of new colours.

Even then, I'm betting any new models are 1-2 years away, minimum.

 

[Saint Gregory]

Not. A. Chance.

It actually fits in a pocket already, it'd be difficult to make it much smaller, and I don't see what the benefit would be. If anything an XL edition is more likely.

I could see them packing higher capacity batteries in future, maybe ironing out subtle issues that the initial batch have experienced, but I don't think there will be a major cosmetic change being worked on at all right now outside of new colours.

Even then, I'm betting any new models are 1-2 years away, minimum.

By smartphone redesign I don't mean making it smaller but rather the aesthetics of a smartphone. I can see them going with a rectangular slide-out design with the 3D screen becoming larger and dominating the face of the device so it looks like a modern smartphone when held portrait style. They could use something like gorrila glass to make the exposed screen kid-proof and make both screens larger overall without making the device significanly larger and hopefully with room for more battery too.

Well that's what I'd do anyway but I tend to be wrong a lot.

And they really can't wait 1-2 years for a redesign. They need to relaunch the 3DS bad and it would be a great opportunity for them to lower the price of the device without it looking like a fire sale.

 

[Cromat]

Prediction: both systems would end up selling less than the PSPs 70 million units LTD.

3DS will still come out on top, but I think this time Vita has a chance of having the better games. DS not only sold better than PSP, I think it genuinely had the better line-up of games over all (though I like many PSP games). Better sales does not equal better library, as the Wii proved.

 

[ZealousD]

Honestly, Sony needs to come up with ways to improve their software penetration on the Vita over what they did on the PSP.

If they can do that, it'll be a success and it'll likely be the best play they could make. I don't think it's necessarily so important for them to outsell Nintendo as it is for them to make the machine profitable. And they're going to HAVE to sell software to make up for the significant loss they're taking on each unit.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Not. A. Chance.

It actually fits in a pocket already, it'd be difficult to make it much smaller, and I don't see what the benefit would be. If anything an XL edition is more likely.

I could see them packing higher capacity batteries in future, maybe ironing out subtle issues that the initial batch have experienced, but I don't think there will be a major cosmetic change being worked on at all right now outside of new colours.

Even then, I'm betting any new models are 1-2 years away, minimum.

3DS Lite? OLED screen, larger battery capacity, tweaked formfactor to match Wii U.

 

[rollingstart]

is there 3D technology yet that isn't crap? because if there is, I'd want that for the redesign. or at very least, a "sweet spot" that's larger than the width of a needle.

fwiw, history hasn't repeated itself for any gen to date. why do people expect it? who knows

 

[Dr_Peace]

I think you've lost sight of what you were arguing. So your defense is, "Deal with it?"

And since you don't have hands-on time with the games I have, and have experienced the problems I've stated, maybe you should say that instead of spouting inanities.

You seem to be confused.

I said that 3D is a large plus and differentiates the platform which is absolute fact.

You came in and tried to dismiss 3D, the main feature of the system that has wowed people time and again. You ignore (or at least don't mention) the fact that it's the games that are holding the system back. You claim that this lack of sales (even though it is selling well) is because people don't care about 3D or even worse... they percieve that the performance won't be good enough (how you came to this conclusion I don't know).


1. I imagine the problems you have stated are completely overblown quite frankly, as all the reviews I've read said OOT is a better experience in 3D.

2. Is obviously not uncommon for games to have slowdown, be it the system not being able to cope of poor optimization.

3. You think people actually seriously care about the problems you claim exist, gaming would be dead if this were true.

 

[galian beast]

Honestly, Sony needs to come up with ways to improve their software penetration on the Vita over what they did on the PSP.

If they can do that, it'll be a success and it'll likely be the best play they could make. I don't think it's necessarily so important for them to outsell Nintendo as it is for them to make the machine profitable. And they're going to HAVE to sell software to make up for the significant loss they're taking on each unit.

I think they already have japanese developers and they will get american developers with easier porting and dual analog, and hopefully better hardware sales and less piracy.

 

[Truth101]

Prediction: both systems would end up selling less than the PSPs 70 million units LTD.

3DS will still come out on top, but I think this time Vita has a chance of having the better games. DS not only sold better than PSP, I think it genuinely had the better line-up of games over all (though I like many PSP games). Better sales does not equal better library, as the Wii proved.

I really really doubt that.

 

[test_account]

How? It's a PSP with a touch screen which really is nothing new in this day and age. I'm not saying that's the extent of its bells and whistles (it's not), but that's the general extent of it. Nothing about the PSV is disruptive while on the other hand, Glasses-less 3D is basically an industry first.

Do you mean the techonlogy? If so, glasses-free 3D has excisted for years. I remember a friend talked about a few years ago that he had seen a screen with 3D effects without the need for any glasses. However, this was mostly for demostration as far as i know, i'm not sure that it was used for much. The 3DS is the first device that i know of that actively uses this technology. But i would argue that something similar goes for the PSV as well. While touch pads and dual analog sticks arent anything new, i have never seen this on a portable gaming device. And i also havnt seen a portable device with rear touchpad (maybe it excist, but i havnt seen it before at least)

 

[Saint Gregory]

is there 3D technology yet that isn't crap? because if there is, I'd want that for the redesign. or at very least, a "sweet spot" that's larger than the width of a needle.

There is much better technology out there now. Even before the 3DS launch there were screens with much larger sweet spots that could also be viewed horizontally or vertically (I haven't seen any of the new 3D smartphones yet but I would imagine they would have to have screens like that) but Nintendo chose not to go with those, probably because of power consumption.

I think they already have japanese developers and they will get american developers with easier porting and dual analog, and hopefully better hardware sales and less piracy.

This is really not the answer.

 

[SEGAmaniaco]

pokemon

Call of Duty

 

[galian beast]

I think the vita does less to innovate and more to level the playing field compared to the DS/PSP/

It's more of "I can do everything you can do, better than you!"

Inspect the DS' success compared to the GBA.

Yes it sold better than the GBA in North America, but not nearly as much as it did in Japan and Europe respectively, where it doubled and tripled previous sales.

I think you could really thank brain training and nintendogs for that. Those were games that the PSP really couldn't emulate well.

With the addition of the touch screen (+ rear touch pad), it can be argued that the Vita can do those things just as well as the DS/3DS if not better.

 

[Lance Bone Path]

What can I say? I love Nintendo. I love handhelds. Given the way Sony have performed there is no reason for me to believe they GET handhelds yet because the PSP (aside from a tiny catalogue made up mainly of Square Enix stuff) was a complete disaster.

You could say that you aren't a viral marketer, if you aren't one instead of dancing around the question. Sure, viral marketers can love Nintendo and can love handhelds. We get that.

 

[Loonz]

Honestly, Sony needs to come up with ways to improve their software penetration on the Vita over what they did on the PSP.

If they can do that, it'll be a success and it'll likely be the best play they could make. I don't think it's necessarily so important for them to outsell Nintendo as it is for them to make the machine profitable. And they're going to HAVE to sell software to make up for the significant loss they're taking on each unit.

According to the last said by S. Yoshida, Sony is losing little by unit, if anything. I think Sony is definitely done with losing money on hardware, they're a business after all. It's quite impressive how much technology is crammed into the Vita for the money they're asking for it.

 

[Gravijah]

Call of Duty

fad vs fad fite

 

[Draft]

I think the tables have turned. The casual audience Nintendo was so successful courting with the DS has moved onto iPhones. The hardcore is underserved by that platform and the Vita seems to target them directly.

 

[Saint Gregory]

According to the last said by S. Yoshida, Sony is losing little by unit, if anything. I think Sony is definitely done with losing money on hardware, they're a business after all. It's quite impressive how much technology is crammed into the Vita for the money they're asking for it.

This has been mentioned a couple times but I haven't seen that interview yet. It would seem strange that Sony would continue to let the old quote about losing money for three years continue to circulate without correcting it (it's mentioned in the article this thread is based on for example) considering how detrimental that quote could be to investor confidence.

 

[KAL2006]

This 3DS vs Vita is great, fierce competition means both companies are going to work harder to impress us. I personally will buy both systems, Vita at launch as I am looking for a decent media player (don't have a smartphone) that can play videos (on that sexy big OLED), browse webs and have apps like BBC Player (Sony better deliver those things). So me really needing a media player automatically makes Vita viable for me, I also am hyped for Uncharted, LittleBigPlanet, SFxT and Hot Shots. I will buy a 3DS when the revision comes out as Vita should do me as well as my consoles for gaming, I must get a 3DS like every Nintendo system as I have to play the Nintendo franchises like Mario, however I am patient and will wait for a revision, hopefully by then 3DS costs lesss and the games I want go down in price.

 

[Skilletor]

You seem to be confused.

I said that 3D is a large plus and differentiates the platform which is absolute fact.

You came in and tried to dismiss 3D, the main feature of the system that has wowed people time and again. You ignore (or at least don't mention) the fact that it's the games that are holding the system back. You claim that this lack of sales (even though it is selling well) is because people don't care about 3D or even worse... they percieve that the performance won't be good enough (how you came to this conclusion I don't know).


1. I imagine the problems you have stated are completely overblown quite frankly, as all the reviews I've read said OOT is a better experience in 3D.

2. Is obviously not uncommon for games to have slowdown, be it the system not being able to cope of poor optimization.

3. You think people actually seriously care about the problems you claim exist, gaming would be dead if this were true.

1. I never dismissed 3D. I think Nintendo was banking on 3D + DS = IT PRINTS MONEY. It not selling, to me, means gamers weren't willing to jump on the gimmick as Nintendo hoped. I do not think 3D will be a deciding factor. It will be a plus to some, a minus to others, but I don't think it will be a selling point.

I never said that Zelda was a bad experience in 3D. I merely stated the fact that many games have graphical bonuses when played in 2D. This is a fact you then said couldn't be possible because you've never seen it, and you've played lots of PC games. :lol

2. That's true, but 3D is the culprit in many cases on this console. Flipping a switch immediately enhances performance.

3. I think lots of people care about a good framerate. I think many people care whether or not the 3D effect on the 3DS gives them a headache, or if it's worth it for the graphical trade off it has in many titles. I don't know if this will matter to the masses, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to point it out as a detriment to the system.

 

[neutralgamer02]

I don't get it. If you read articles, or even this thread, history isn't repeating itself. People were arguing in 2004 that the PSP would streamroll the DS. That isn't happening. If anything, people today are arguing that the 3DS will steamroll the Vita. Totally different. I thought the psp would beat out the ds in 2004. This time I am surprised at the anemic start of the 3DS and question if the Vita is even viable in the west. I wonder if either handheld will do as well as previously.

Honestly, I think the iOS has changed things. You can get a ipod touch for $199 which is cheaper than either handheld. The ipod touch is more popular than either of these handhelds. Teens don't think I want a 3DS. They think I want an ipod touch. Casuals wont think, I want a 3DS, they will say I have my iphone/android/whatever and I am fine with the casual games that come out for it. That takes a significant chunk out of the casual market for the 3DS that helped propel the DS into its amazing sales. I have no clue what nintendo will come up with to tap into the market again, but they better find it if they are expecting the type of success that the DS has.

When it comes to the Vita, I have no clue what to expect. I think it will do fine in Japan as the PSP has, and will be the one market that it may beat out the 3DS if things go right for it. The question is whether it can find a market in the west. I just don't know.

I actually prefer handheld gaming to console gaming. I got a gb pocket, gba, gbasp, and a psp. Will I be getting either handheld? At first, I thought no, I will just stick to gaming on my smartphone; showing just how much smartphones have changed things. Then with the shockingly low price of the vita, I thought I had to get one just based on the value. I don't know if it will do well here, but I will take a chance. I hope I wont be disappointed as I was with the psp, and luckily it seems that sony are correcting the mistakes that made psp this time around for the vita. Well shall see.

 

[test_account]

What can I say? I love Nintendo. I love handhelds. Given the way Sony have performed there is no reason for me to believe they GET handhelds yet because the PSP (aside from a tiny catalogue made up mainly of Square Enix stuff) was a complete disaster.

What do you mean with "complete distaster"? A device that has sold like 70 million units and has hundreds of games in its catalogue is not a sales disaster. The device itself is fairly sturdy and the battery life is not horrible, so it is not a hardware design disaster.