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IGN Posts Up More Project Cafe Hardware Power Rumors
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Smiles and Cries
Member
herzogzwei1989 said:
yeah I hear that a lot about the GameCube but as the pic above illustrates things get lost in the shuffle. I would like to see Nintendo pull off that kind of balance again they were on the right track but decided not to allow the Wii any significant power leap
really cannot wait to see what they went with this time
herzogzwei1989
Banned
BTW I think this pic is real:
Even if the other pics of Cafe prove to be fakes.
Even if the other pics of Cafe prove to be fakes.
Smiles and Cries
Member
herzogzwei1989 said:
MesserWolf
Member
ThoseDeafMutes said:
Brilliant pic!
BlackNMild2k1
Member
herzogzwei1989 said:
Since this pic surfaced the day before
http://i.imgur.com/zuH7x.jpg
I guess that would make that one real too?
But since I believe they were all done by the same person(s), I'm pretty sure they are all fake just like that story about the student contest site says. And I'm sure those kids won by a very large margin too.
From The Dust
Banned
I can see the logic of showing off the final design to developers. but it makes me wonder what the dev kit looks like. sure it's gonna me a very non-descreet box, but I still want to see one
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
That's correct. Except maybe for the raw fillrate, where a voodoo2 SLI setup would be faster, but that's before taking into account the TBDR nature of the PVR2DC. In every other aspect the DC graphics setup creamed the sst2, and the SLI configuration improved only the fillrate of the sst2 (maybe the trisetup rate too, I don't remember). Also, the SH4 had specialised FPU ops for doing matrix transformations, whereas the PII had just the integer MMX op set. The only FP vector tech in the PC domain at the time was K6's 3dNow which had just emerged (in 1998) and practically nothing was using it yet.herzogzwei1989 said:
AceBandage
Banned
Even if developers knew the final design, they wouldn't have little working models laying around.
And that design doesn't have enough airflow to accommodate a modern CPU and GPU.
And that design doesn't have enough airflow to accommodate a modern CPU and GPU.
I wouldn't mind the design if it had a more functional disc tray (in place of the camel toe), not as cheap-looking plastic and if it got rid of the etched Nintendo logo.ombz said:
To be fair, we haven't seen the other side. Not that it matters anyway, though.AceBandage said:
I'm not a fan of the design, it looks too bland to me. I would love to see one of the NES mockups
http://static.wii2blog.com/2011/04/Wii-2-Mockup-200.jpg
(dat size)
my favorite console design but I hate the controller
Edit:
Also I recall hearing (officially?) that it will be about the size of the xbox 360. That most popular 'leak' is more the size of the Wii.
http://static.wii2blog.com/2011/04/Wii-2-Mockup-200.jpg
(dat size)
my favorite console design but I hate the controller
Edit:
Also I recall hearing (officially?) that it will be about the size of the xbox 360. That most popular 'leak' is more the size of the Wii.
From The Dust
Banned
Jocchan said:
there are fakes of the back though.
AceBandage
Banned
Soda said:I'm not a fan of the design, it looks too bland to me. I would love to see one of the NES mockups
(dat size)
my favorite console design but I hate the controller
Edit:
Also I recall hearing (officially?) that it will be about the size of the xbox 360. That most popular 'leak' is more the size of the Wii.
IGN said it was the size of an original 360, but the style of the (S?)NES.
VGChampion
Member
F#A#Oo said:
Except ON was just a fan I believe. Nintendo is not releasing all these mock ups. Fans are.
From The Dust
Banned
I want to know more about th SNES inspired design. that's prolly the most intruging part about the console itself
AceBandage
Banned
I dunno, the OG NES was kind of ugly.
AceBandage said:I dunno, the OG NES was kind of ugly.
Ugly now, but no denying how iconic it is. It's kind of the same concept as cars, when they first come out you are totally baffled at how amazing it looks. Several years down the line of tweaks and polishing, you look back and wonder how you ever thought that car looked good compared to the newest model.
edit: also, no loading times :lol
NotGameboy
Banned
From The Dust said:
Source, please.
MadScientist
Banned
This is the reason why I don't think Project Cafe is a full step to a new console generation, or somewhere near that.herzogzwei1989 said:
A console like Project Cafe is probably able to run 360 and PS3 games at a higher resolution and with better performance, but that is pretty much it. That is a significant update for the Wii audience and a few hundered thousand hardcore players, but not enough to convince the mainstream PS3 or 360 audience to buy another console.
If it is not possible for Sony of MS to come up with a console that can run the Samaritian demo, they should better wait until that tech becomes available. Even then I think it might not enough considering how good current gen games like Uncharted, L.A. Noire, etc. look.
Perhaps that is what Nintendo is banking on: That Sony and MS will have to wait until more powerful tech becomes available while they upgrade the Wii audience and slowly convert the hardcore audience.
Also, the touch screen will make many games possible that weren't previously feasible on a console. Games from World of Warcraft to Civilization now can be converted without much sacrifice. I am really excited to see how that plays out and believe the feature is not yet getting the attention it should
From The Dust
Banned
Gameboy said:
based on the images from the fake presentation
Is kinda unfair to compare earlier gens/PC counterparts vs current gen/modern PCs. Right now, modern PCs GPU have virtually unlimited power budget. Before they were limited to the power draw of AGP and worse, PCI.MadScientist said:
Even without those limits, at the time of 360 release power consumption of high end GPU's looked like this:
Right now:
And that's without cards like 580. 590 and 6990, which have even higher consumption by a non trivial margin. Power budget have increased considerably.
I had a dream last night where I was driving along and came to a little town in the middle of nowhere. I parked outside a mall, and suddenly this gigantic trailer drove in and parked there too. It was around 50 meters long, 10 meters high, and was shiny black with "Iwata" in red letters. Out stepped Iwata and a few others. He drove around Europe in his mega-trailer to personally show the Café to people before E3. They just stood around waiting for people to come, and eventually a small crowd gathered. Iwata started to make a speech, when suddenly two crowds of protesters came in from the sides. They were protesting each other, and completely drowned out poor Iwata. We then followed him up a small road in order to find a quiet place for him, and on the way we passed a famous audio recording studio called "Mario Kart". He was not amused. I woke up before he showed the Café, but at least I got an autograph.
GPUs are limited to 300W power draw to stay within ATX specifications. Console GPUs draw less power as well due to being integrated in the mainboard instead of having a separate PCB, not needing their own power connector, sharing RAM with the rest of the system instead of having their own supply, removing uneccesary features like video decoding etc.Lonely1 said:
Those charts are a bit misleading as you can't measure the power draw of a GPU separately and a power supply's efficiency varies quite a lot depending on load.Lonely1 said:You know why I meant by virtually in cursive... That limit doens't apply to multi GPU's solutions.
Back in the day PC GPUs were svelte and offered very few extra features such as video decoding, tesselation, power saving states etc which all require extra transistors and components. Console manufacturers can save quite a bit of die space, transistors and heat output by removing these unecessary features which wouldn't have been possible in the past as these things didn't exist.Lonely1 said:You know why I meant by virtually in cursive... That limit doens't apply to multi GPU's solutions.
And what does that affects the original argument of comparing GPUs vs Consoles across generations, since that has always been true?
MadScientist said:
I thought Epic said they used SLI on the Samaritan demo just to bruteforce the development of it, and that the target was a single 580. Maybe with a transistor reduction a future Sony/MS console can target that.
The real question now is whether Cafe will include a harddrive, and if it will be upgradeable. I wouldn't count on many PC ports if it wasn't that way.
Shin Johnpv
Member
Mr_Brit said:
Except for the fact that they're not. We already have cards that draw more than 300 watts of power at peak. The 580 draws in the range of 330 - 360. Then there's the 6990 which if you enable the extreme bios and run it at full speed, at peak you're looking at a card that can draw up to 450 watts. Being on a separate PCB, and having its own ram isn't going to drop a 580 from using 330 - 360 watts to the ideal range of <100 watts. That stuff just doesn't add that much more to its total draw.
Shin Johnpv
Member
ElFly said:
I don't remember them saying that. I remember reading they said by cutting some things out, faking other things, and doing some optimization they could get a close approximation running on a 580, but not the full Samaritan demo the way they had it.
VGChampion said:
Hmmm...I dunno...was it proven to be fan made? I know there was an interview that went around where he said he had lost alot of the work and what was released was only a portion...
In this day and age I would not be surprised if Nintendo has people creating mock ups...
herzogzwei1989
Banned
blu said:
Yes. The SH-4 crushed any Pentium II in floating point performance in 1998. The PowerVR2DC was superior to Voodoo2 SLI in almost everyway. It wasn't until Voodoo3 and TNT2 in mid 1999 that Dreamcast was surpassed.
True. Then throw out half the pixel shaders as you are targeting fixed 1080p, no need to drive 2560x1500 screens, or multiple screens or wasteful AA (implement a custom efficient MLAA). Then dump all the ram except some embedded for the frame buffer, as that'll be shared with the CPU.Mr_Brit said:
Etc etc you could probably get a 560 level GPU down to an acceptable level to put in a console.
Then drive it at low level, not direct x crap designed to cover all cases and I think i'd be happy for ps4/xbox 720
herzogzwei1989
Banned
Another thing, and this probably comes out of left-field, no matter what Rx7xx GPU the Cafe's GPU is based on, this will be the first time that Nintendo's console has some of the old Lockheed Martin Real3D tech in it. Remember GameCube and Wii both use ArtX tech. It wasn't until after the ATI acquisition of ArtX that ATI then acquired a major chunk of Real3D. In the early 2000s (IIRC) ATI took over Real3D's Orlando office. It became ATI's Orlando design center. Many of the former Real3D engineers have been working on ATI's GPUs for a decade now. None of this made it into Wii's Hollywood GPU because Hollywood is merely an overclocked Flipper which is tech from 1999. Real3D was great, they provided Sega with their tech for the Model 3 arcade board and before that, the Model 2 board under Martin Marietta before Lockheed took over. The raw power and sheer image quality that Real3D provided Sega was second to none. The Real3D/Pro-1000 GPUs in Model 3 were actually superior to Dreamcast in some ways. It's great that Cafe will have combined tech from the former Real3D, ArtX and all of ATI/AMD.
herzogzwei1989
Banned
Here's a rather negative article on Cafe, for you haters out there.
Nintendos Project Cafe: Too Little Too Late?
Nintendos Project Cafe: Too Little Too Late?
AceBandage
Banned
herzogzwei1989 said:
The fuck...
Also, another article written by people that have no idea what console tech actually does.