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[Jibran#one]

It's literally painful to watch the comparisons of this with arkham Knight.
Except the resolution boost the game literally looks a generation behind arkham Knight

 

[Punished Miku]

It's literally painful to watch the comparisons of this with arkham Knight.
Except the resolution boost the game literally looks a generation behind arkham Knight

$70.

 

[Jibran#one]

Will wait for gamepass in 6-12 months for this. Hopefully better optimized then.

Can bet this lvl of failure, max 3 to 4 months it will be on gamepass for the subscription money

 

[FlyyGOD]

U guys were begging for next gen only games well here u go.

Next generation features being made to work on a last generation engine is a recipe for disaster for developers who aren't that competent. Just wait to buy it when the patch that lowers the resolution even further to get framerate stable.

 

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I like these devs. Origins was great and I love Batman AK, so I really wanted to give this game a shot, but not fully utilizing the GPU on PC is simply unacceptable. I can tolerate poor performance at launch, but not feeding the GPU enough instrusctions? I cant sanction this buffoonery.

I didn't watched the video yet, how does that traduce for pc users with less than a 4000-3000 series?

 

[Gamezone]

20 FPS, next-gen exclusive, and looks worse than Arkham Knight.

 

[Punished Miku]

Can bet this lvl of failure, max 3 to 4 months it will be on gamepass for the subscription money

This isn't a Gamepass game. This is a premium tier $70 experience for sophisticated consumers that only want the best. You can tell by the price that it's really high quality, right?

 

[SlimySnake]

I didn't watched the video yet, how does that traduce for pc users with less than a 4000-3000 series?

NX Gamer was getting 100% GPU utilization on his 2070 Super during combat but 70% while driving around. The game seems to be IO bound while driving.

 

[SlimySnake]

It's literally painful to watch the comparisons of this with arkham Knight.
Except the resolution boost the game literally looks a generation behind arkham Knight

Nah, Im playing AK right now and the rain really helps hide a lot of its shortcomings. the PBR materials here are much better. Buildings look better.

The shitty artstyle, the lack of rain really contribute to a much more generic atmosphere which is why it looks painfully dull. But there are a lot of improvements here that seem hidden because overall the game's artstyle simply isnt as good as Arkham Knights.

Here is what AK looks like without rain. You can see how the daytime lighting exposes the poor texture work everywhere.

 

[eastcoastkody]

didnt have Series S being the better version on my bingo card

 

[GymWolf]

NX Gamer was getting 100% GPU utilization on his 2070 Super during combat but 70% while driving around. The game seems to be IO bound while driving.

Only during driving the bike? what about during fast traversal on foot with batwings and wire hook??

 

[PontiusFeeb]

It has no business running so poorly when it looks so average.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Desperately hoping console gamers don't buy this lazy, unoptimized piece of shit game.

We must tell developers this isn't acceptable (native 4k/30 with rt and no performance mode-terrible decisions).

 

[playsaves3]

that wouldn't be an issue if they didn't run the game at native 4K instead of offering a lower resolution with the same features like Insomniac does

And no option for unlocked framerate in vrr

 

[SlimySnake]

Only during driving the bike? what about during fast traversal on foot with batwings and wire hook??

The video didnt feature those sections, but the combat sections in the DF video show drops on consoles. But they could be due to the high native 4k ray traced reflections causing the drops. Like I said, the GPU usage in the PC version is maxed out during combat so if there are drops during combat, at least the GPU is being utilized. Same is not true while driving.

 

[playsaves3]

Chances are their code may be too broken for that regardless. The game hits so many bottlenecks that it would still be restricted by CPU. Bare in mind these are really good CPUs in these consoles too. PC performance is very telling the state of its code.

Why does everyone keep saying the cpus are good they are very average and IMO mediocre it’s easily the worst aspect of the system

 

[Wooxsvan]

we knew this. its a horrible technical mess

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/gotham-knights-first-30-minutes-leaked.1643283/post-266746299

 

[RoboFu]

Imagine this game on last gen consoles.

i wish it was.

 

[playsaves3]

To be fair, i'd bet its cpu bottlenecks causing that 50fps. I have watched plently of unbelieveable 4090 benchmark vids and i simply dont believe a 4090 is being maxed at 50fps at times in this game, even if it were 8k or soemhting.

The Steam reviews are going to be glorious with this game.

People really overrate that card in raw performance it’s it featureset like dlss 3.0 that makes it stand out not it’s raw raster

 

[Klosshufvud]

Why does everyone keep saying the cpus are good they are very average and IMO mediocre it’s easily the worst aspect of the system

Games generally aren't CPU-reliant. We went from notebook 1,6 Ghz netbook Jaguar cores to desktop-class high-performant Ryzen cores. Do you know what PC games you could run off a Jaguar CPU and then a Ryzen 2700 CPU? It's more than just night and day. Considering how most devs hit 60 fps via dynamic resolution solutions, I would say with confidence that GPU is generally the limiting factor in these games, not CPU. Gotham Knights is a rare exception due to its extremely poor coding which chokes itself all over the place.

 

[Lumpyoatmeal]

Here is what AK looks like without rain. You can see how the daytime lighting exposes the poor texture work everywhere.

These are gameplay captures (no cutscenes) on the PC using the photo mode. Man AK assets still look better than some of these games shipping on the market, the difference gets even wider when AK animates in motion.

 

[deriks]

Just look at GPU usage, amateur job.

A RTX3050 doing 39 frames at 1080p... I don't think that this is a hardware problem, guys

 

[Black_Stride]

People really overrate that card in raw performance it’s it featureset like dlss 3.0 that makes it stand out not it’s raw raster

The card is doing near double the performance of a 3090 in raw raster.
You are gonna tell me thats just down to feature set such as DLSS3?.........unless that feature set includes being an absolute beast in raw raster.
This is number one bullshit.

 

[DJ12]

Ok but the example you've quoted shows Series S running 5~6 FPS faster than a much more powerful console.

9/10 people will take a more performant version of the game, not the one which has barely noticeable RT.

Ahem....

1440p30 on Series S
2160p30 on Series X/PS5

Ray Tracing only on X/PS5 but it doesn't look much better if at all.

I could beat Usain bolt in a 100 meter race if I only had to run 45 metres. Does that make me Barry Allen?

U guys were begging for next gen only games well here u go.

Pfft what next by these trolls, wanting a current gen only game done by a competent developer...

 

[Rush2112]

This is an "action game" apparently but some reason the combat sucks. Whats the fuckin point then?

 

[SlimySnake]

Ahem....

I could beat Usain bolt in a 100 meter race if I only had to run 45 metres. Does that make me Barry Allen?

lol yep. Less than Half the resolution. No RT reflections. Like come on, this is so disingenuous i cant believe someone would resort to making that argument.

 

[OZ9000]

These are gameplay captures (no cutscenes) on the PC using the photo mode. Man AK assets still look better than some of these games shipping on the market, the difference gets even wider when AK animates in motion.

The game holds up so well due to the stylised appearance and post processing.

I do miss these effects in games nowadays. Cyberpunk 2077 looks so bland and boring on comparison for example.

 

[SLB1904]

Picturized: Series S holding back the generation.

I never understood why people assumed that the Series s would hold the generation back. That's like saying the GTX 1080 is holding back pc gaming. Devolpers use scalable engines . I think this engine is a last generation engine with next gen bells and whistles slapped onto it.

you 2 using this trash fire unoptimized garbage, as some kind of evidence that the weak series s isn't holding back developing is hilarious.
also, this game dropped last-gen consoles is was developed there.
but anyway this argument is stupid anyway, time will tell if the series s was a good idea or not

 

[01011001]

you 2 using this trash fire unoptimized garbage, as some kind of evidence that the weak series s isn't holding back developing is hilarious.
also, this game dropped last-gen consoles is was developed there.
but anyway this argument is stupid anyway, time will tell if the series s was a good idea or not

I use one of the most demanding games Cyberpunk 2077 as evidence, running at 900p60fps on Series S

 

[Corndog]

Switch is getting down ports of some games when it's possible. While series s version has to be always made and it's the lowest common denominator. This console will hold entire 9 gen aside PS5 and pc exclusives, no matter what you think about it this is reality.

How will it hold them back? Please elaborate.

 

[Bojji]

How will it hold them back? Please elaborate.

Low amount of memory, it only has like 8GB of memory allowed for developers to use and they have to fit their games into it. Some things can be scaled (like textures, shadow map resolution etc.) but some can't so developers are left with only 3GB more than on last gen consoles, that doesn't look like a generation jump to me.

All multiplatform games will be made with this limitation in mind so we won't know how would they look if developers had all of Series X memory to play, only PS5/PC developed games will be allowed to not be constrained by this.

 

[FlyyGOD]

you 2 using this trash fire unoptimized garbage, as some kind of evidence that the weak series s isn't holding back developing is hilarious.
also, this game dropped last-gen consoles is was developed there.
but anyway this argument is stupid anyway, time will tell if the series s was a good idea or not

Why would series s affect ps5 version?

 

[SLB1904]

Why would series s affect ps5 version?

why would the weaker hardware affect the stronger?
what kinda questions are these?
i swear if this was the other way around your narrative would different. always trying to defend the shitty decisions these corporate makes



this is what happens when you make a game without a trash in way
do you think this game would look like that if the switch was mandatory

 

[playsaves3]

The card is doing near double the performance of a 3090 in raw raster.
You are gonna tell me thats just down to feature set such as DLSS3?.........unless that feature set includes being an absolute beast in raw raster.
This is number one bullshit.

In like 4 games it gets double in most games it’s anywhere from 40-80% better

 

[playsaves3]

Games generally aren't CPU-reliant. We went from notebook 1,6 Ghz netbook Jaguar cores to desktop-class high-performant Ryzen cores. Do you know what PC games you could run off a Jaguar CPU and then a Ryzen 2700 CPU? It's more than just night and day. Considering how most devs hit 60 fps via dynamic resolution solutions, I would say with confidence that GPU is generally the limiting factor in these games, not CPU. Gotham Knights is a rare exception due to its extremely poor coding which chokes itself all over the place.

Raytracing is heavy on the cpu

 

[Iced Arcade]

1440p30 on Series S
2160p30 on Series X/PS5

Ray Tracing only on X/PS5 but it doesn't look much better if at all.

Constant stutters regardless of platform.

someone didn't attend Ians meeting.

 

[phil_t98]

Switch is getting down ports of some games when it's possible. While series s version has to be always made and it's the lowest common denominator. This console will hold entire 9 gen aside PS5 and pc exclusives, no matter what you think about it this is reality.

even though in that picture its got better FPS

 

[Black_Stride]

In like 4 games it gets double in most games it’s anywhere from 40-80% better

80% is near double the performance.....which is exactly what I said.

And define MOST where its only 40% faster.
List those games and tell me they arent CPU/API/Engine limited.

 

[playsaves3]

80% is near double the performance.....which is exactly what I said.

And define MOST where its only 40% faster.
List those games and tell me they arent CPU/API/Engine limited.

I’m not talking about cpu limited games like cod or tomb raider in my 40-80% claim.

 

[Black_Stride]

I’m not talking about cpu limited games like cod or tomb raider in my 40-80% claim.

So then what games are you including in your MOST being in the 40% range.
Cuz as I said 80% is near double performance, which is a massive gen on gen improvement, im legit shocked you would downplay that.

Also, 40 to 80% improvement is a huge huge margin borderline useless information.
In statistics the 40% or the 80% results are outliers, or something weird is going on with the test.
No one would realistically say ohh yeah we did a test the results were good/bad....because you either passed 40% or got 80%, that tells us nothing.
So pick what you are trying to say about the 4090 properly....cuz remember 40 is a failing grade, 80 is an amazing grade.

Techpowerup average the gen on gen increase at 72% and thats counting titles that just dont run well and are API/Engine/CPU limited.
Techspot average the gen on gen increase at 71% and they notoriously arent Nvidia fans.

In what universe is a ~70% on average increase in performance considered not that great?
How many generations of GPUs have you lived through that you think that isnt an absolutely monumental card, possibly Nvidias best gen on gen increase since like the 8800GT or something.

 

[Corndog]

Low amount of memory, it only has like 8GB of memory allowed for developers to use and they have to fit their games into it. Some things can be scaled (like textures, shadow map resolution etc.) but some can't so developers are left with only 3GB more than on last gen consoles, that doesn't look like a generation jump to me.

All multiplatform games will be made with this limitation in mind so we won't know how would they look if developers had all of Series X memory to play, only PS5/PC developed games will be allowed to not be constrained by this.

Lower resolution means less memory needed. Even ps5 and series x don’t have that much ram. They get around this by having faster ssd speeds. So this is a minor problem. It can be handled just like pc does.

 

[FlyyGOD]

why would the weaker hardware affect the stronger?
what kinda questions are these?
i swear if this was the other way around your narrative would different. always trying to defend the shitty decisions these corporate makes



this is what happens when you make a game without a trash in way
do you think this game would look like that if the switch was mandatory

Two different devolpment environments. Wouldn't the Series X version be the version to suffer? I guess the Series s version is causing the pc version to suffer as well.

 

[ArtHands]

Really pathetic.
I don't understand why they won't drop RT on Series X and PS5 for 60FPS mode.
Also, why they are shooting for native 4K? Nobody told them that native 4K resolution is waste of resources in times when image reconstruction techniques are great option?

Screenshot is easier than video to show console gamers the graphics of the game.

 

[ZoukGalaxy]

From software level of incompetence here

At least everything else was great with FROM SOFTWARE...

 

[Physiognomonics]

The problem with XSS holding back next-gen is not strictly about graphical prowess, it's about the game design: the size of the world, logic, animation, number of polygons that can be put in one scene.

So any comparison like Gotham Knights running better on XSS (with reduced resolution and without RT) has nothing to do with it. But in the case of games having RT, the easiest solution is indeed to remove RT from the small Xbox (cause RT need a lot more memory) which could probably mean XSS is not holding back next-gen (or that game) in that case.

 

[Darlingcognito]

Come back to Ray tracing next gen please.

 

[01011001]

The problem with XSS holding back next-gen is not strictly about graphical prowess, it's about the game design: the size of the world, logic, animation, number of polygons that can be put in one scene.

the Series S isn't holding anything back in any of the examples you gave.

logic and animation are CPU dependent and the CPU is basically identical, slightly slower than the PS5's

world size is something that isn't held back by any modern CPU or GPU, on the fly data streaming systems have solved this issue years ago

the number of polygons can be adjusted down if absolutely necessary. you can reduce draw distance of unimportant objects, you can use lower LODs (a often used thing in Switch ports) and you can remove unimportant small detail if needed (the Switch version of Overwatch is missing multiple small objects in the maps for example)

the Series S isn't holding anything back. if a game runs so badly on Series X that it can't be scaled down to Series S, then it shouldn't be released in the first place.

in a world where Doom Eternal, Wolfenstein 2, and The Witcher 3 can run on a Switch there's no excuse for something running on a Series X not being doable on a Series S, which uses the same architecture, same CPU, same storage and a GPU that has 33% of the power of the bigger systems.

reducing the pixelcount of a 4K game down to 1080p means the 33% as powerful system only has to render 25% as many pixels as the big console, and that's before changing any other setting.

so if the ability to cut resolution down to 25% + the option to reduce a few settings is something that still is not enough to make your game work, then cancel it, because it deserves to be cancelled

 

[Lumpyoatmeal]

The game holds up so well due to the stylised appearance and post processing.

I do miss these effects in games nowadays. Cyberpunk 2077 looks so bland and boring on comparison for example.

It holds up because it’s Pixar.

 

[DaGwaphics]

lol yep. Less than Half the resolution. No RT reflections. Like come on, this is so disingenuous i cant believe someone would resort to making that argument.

LOL, more disingenuous is the arguments against that position, tbh. Of course the XSX/PS5 are doing more work, but users have no control over the settings used. The end result is whatever frame rates you get.

If the developer chooses a better target for XSS it's possible that the frame rate could be smoother, thus if that is something that is important to you than the XSS version is the best in that regard. We've certainly seen it go the other way plenty of times as well, it's all about the targets chosen for the platforms. You could have a console with the power of a 4090, but if the developer locks the only available mode to 8k with poor results, outside of screenshots, that might not be the best version.

 

[NightmareFarm]

Is there any good reason why the fps is so low(despite the PS3 looking graphics) or is it just crappy optimisation?