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[Md Ray]

Is it impossible to have two levels in memory, with limited objects and fidelity to fit them?

I don't think so. If a dev wanted, they could definitely make Rift Apart using hdd.

It wouldn't be as good but would work.

That's the whole point of the video.

When you put it that way, it makes it a pretty pointless vid then. Thanks for at least admitting that SSD is required to stream in this level of fidelity in mere seconds. You'd be waiting 20+ seconds for each level to load on an HDD.

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

Well they mentioned that they are not loading the entire level like in the Ratchet game on the PS4. So even then due to the speed of the I/O there isn't a necessity to load the entire level. Doesn't mean it isn't a lot of data though.

Yes it's in zones. The entire zone isn't needed either. The whole issue is the every frame is 14gb nonsense people think makes ultra fast storage necessary, but that's not the case.

 

[Md Ray]

Considering a 4 GB/s SSD is being stressed and performing slower, it means that the data requirements are for more than 4 GB/s.

That's a pretty good point.

 

[Md Ray]

The entire stage is not needed immediately after every Rift. Just what you can see at that moment. You have plenty of time to load the rest of it. I'm not arguing how Insomniac does it. I'm arguing like this video, that it's the only way to do it

And? You still need an SSD for it.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Yes it's in zones. The entire zone isn't needed either. The whole issue is the every frame is 14gb nonsense people think makes ultra fast storage necessary, but that's not the case.

Well you are reusing the same assets from frame to frame so you don't need to do a complete swap with each one.

But still if you want to be able to swap assets from frame to frame you still need an extremely fast I/O.

Like Mark said his objective was to store in memory the next second of gameplay. That's the main goal of having a really fast I/O.

Anyways it's at least a lot more sensible than that instant 100GBs comment. That's something that just isn't possible on any platform.

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

And? You still need an SSD for it.

To do exactly the same way as Insomniac yes. To have a virtually identical experience aside from initial from the menus load... No you don't.

Well you are reusing the same assets from frame to frame so you don't need to do a complete swap with each one.

But still if you want to be able to swap assets from frame to frame you still need an extremely fast I/O.

Like Mark said his objective was to store in memory the next second of gameplay. That's the main goal of having a really fast I/O.

They don't do that in this game or I'm guessing any other game this generation. They are never going to go thru 14gb a second for an entire game. If 90% of assets remain the same every second they only need 1.4gb/s. Single frames do not and will not require 14gb assets

 

[SlimySnake]

Because you have misunderstood from the beginning. Go back and read again. Or don't. Couldn't care either way.

Lets see your original post.

Ratchet has been marketed as a ps5 only experience. It's not.

Wrong.

It's been done and been possible for years.

Wrong again. TF2 was NOT loading data in and out of the SSD. They already had all the data in the VRAM. No other game is doing what Ratchet is doing.

Let's say each Rift in those transitions is 5gb, that's believable. That gives you 8 seconds to load 5gb. That's very reasonable for most any SSD.

There are SSDs that top out at 500 MBps. Even the Xbox's SSD is only 2.4 GBps. If the PS5 SSD is taking 8 seconds to load 5 GB, how on earth will a 2-10x slower SSD going to load it in the same amount of time? Magic?

This quote right here isnt just wrong, it's exceptionally foolish. You came up with a scenario that has no basis in reality (5GB per transition), call it believable even know the PS5 has way more than 5GB of VRAM available so technically you wouldnt need to have any loading whatsoever with the data already loaded in VRAM. Then you say it takes a 5.5 GBps SSD 8 seconds to load 5GB of data which should've been your first clue about just how clueless your argument really is, but then you finished it off by saying ANY SSD can do what the PS5's 10x faster SSD can do. I have never seen a post where literally every phrase makes less sense than the one before it.

With smart but time consuming optimization those 6 seconds scenes could have way less memory requirement because you don't need high res for things you actually can't in want way see the detail while playing even if you pause and look around.

The funny thing is that you are talking about something Cerny already covered in his Road to PS5 talk. Games already use the RAM to store data that isnt visible to the player. Some 30 seconds of it. You dont see it because of frustum culling with the GPU only rendering what the eyes can see. What the SSD is allowing them to do is essentially apply the frustum culling concept to the RAM and SSD with the SSD being fast enough to load what the eyes can see.

 

[megreotsugua]

Rachet & Clank Rift Apart can be made on a PS3 with a slow ass HDD. But it will have look like a PS2 game in order to pull it off.

It can be done on a PS4 with its slow ass HDD. But it will have to look like a PS3 game to fit everything in the memory.

 

[Md Ray]

To do exactly the same way as Insomniac yes. To have a virtually identical experience aside from initial from the menus load... No you don't.

On previous-gen consoles? No, wouldn't be happening without long loading screens between each rift. Do you agree?

 

[SlimySnake]

With rifts plastered all over literally every trailer and Twitter post I don't think it's unfair to assume that they are going to factor into the gameplay in a huge and game-changing way. The reality is that they are just a fancy tech demo. The Blizon levels were so frustrating to me as you could see that they could have used them creatively to have some neat puzzles but 95% of the puzzles were find the next crystal and hit it. There were also so few Blizon Crystals in the game (there is a trophy for hitting all 30) that you could have used a fade to black load screen and it wouldn't have broken the game.

I'm not dismissing the tech. I know that it has huge potential. I didn't pay £70 for a proof of concept or tech demo though - I bought a game and I got a competent one but one that I felt I had played a dozen times before. There's nothing wrong with a safe game but when it cost at least double what I have paid for anything else this year and was over in a few sessions I don't think it's crazy to feel ripped off when you see Mike Fitzgerald or whoever signing their own praises on Twitter like a modern day Peter Molyneux.

If you are watching from the outside then there's no harm in being excited by the tech but I do feel like I've just robbed blind to finance Insomniac's next game like a Kickstarter with extra steps.

Again, I have no issues with you saying the game didnt hit its potential. The problem I have is with you saying the marketing was misleading when everything they showed from the very beginning made it to the game with no downgrades. if anything we had an upgrade in load times in the portals, no hitches that we saw in the original reveal, and the blizon levels that werent even shown in the original teaser.

I am struggling to see how one can feel ripped off by reading a tweet of a developer who is just proud of the work he's done. molyenux did NOT deliver any of the features he promised. Mike Fitzgerald debuted the game with gameplay, not empty promises, and then delivered a better version of that gameplay. Disappointed I understand. Ripped off? Come the fuck on.

 

[MasterCornholio]

To do exactly the same way as Insomniac yes. To have a virtually identical experience aside from initial from the menus load... No you don't.

They don't do that in this game or I'm guessing any other game this generation. They are never going to go thru 14gb a second for an entire game. If 90% of assets remain the same every second they only need 1.4gb/s. Single frames do not and will not require 14gb assets

Well they would have gone with much slower SSD if that was the case. I'm guessing a 2.4GB/s SSD would be more than enough for your calculations.

 

[Seph-]

Christ there's alot of narratives here off of one video. Some people really should consider actually playing some games rather than well, whatever this thread turned into. Could Ratchet run on older drives. Probably, but that drop in fidelity and hell even the buffer likely needed for the next assets to load would be awful. Would likely change end results dramatically. No thanks ill take the product we have now instead.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

When you put it that way, it makes it a pretty pointless vid then. Thanks for at least admitting that SSD is required to stream in this level of fidelity in mere seconds. You'd be waiting 20+ seconds for each level to load on an HDD.

You can work around hardware limitations.

Ultimately question needs to be asked, if Dev's could do this in previous generation, why they didn't do it?

Answer is simple, it's a boring mechanic, aimed squarely at forum dwellers to showcase SSD can do something cool.

It could be interesting if used once or twice in entire game at special occassion. The way it's used in R&C, it's kinda meaningless.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Optimise better?
Every frame is not 14gb.
Also please let me know if you can confirm the 360° max sens time. Thanks

You're assuming they didn't optimize the best they could? It's Insomniac we're talking about. They are not an indie studio but are industry veterans and are fantastic at what they do. They are the only studio who have offered 4K+60+RT in both their games, which proves they have been optimizing as best as they could at this point of time.

P.S. R&C is in external HDD; I'm too lazy and busy to copy it back to internal at the moment. Can't make promises, but will try. But it won't be more than 1.5 seconds I doubt.

 

[arvfab]

He must know something, look at his past projects.

And not a single PS5 game....

 

[Heisenberg007]

Christ there's alot of narratives here off of one video. Some people really should consider actually playing some games rather than well, whatever this thread turned into. Could Ratchet run on older drives. Probably, but that drop in fidelity and hell even the buffer likely needed for the next assets to load would be awful. Would likely change end results dramatically. No thanks ill take the product we have now instead.

Yeah, that argument is stupid and can apply to every game.

• Flight Simulator: It could work fine on Xbox One. Just push down the graphical fidelity and run it at 480p.
• Red Dead Redemption 2: Just lower the graphical fidelity and remove the AI complexities, and it'll run just fine on Xbox 360 and PS3.

At what point, the essence of the game is lost, and it no longer is the version we are seeing right now.

 

[arvfab]

How did you come to that 1GB conclusion?

I would say it's a typical case of pulling it out of a body part placed between the legs and the back.

 

[itsjustJEFF]

Yeah, that argument is stupid and can apply to every game.

• Flight Simulator: It could work fine on Xbox One. Just push down the graphical fidelity and run it at 480p.
• Red Dead Redemption 2: Just lower the graphical fidelity and remove the AI complexities, and it'll run just fine on Xbox 360 and PS3.

At what point, the essence of the game is lost, and it no longer is the version we are seeing right now.

Keep pushing until someone admit new gen tech is not all that hot. Oh, but don't do this to my piece of plastic... it's special, it's different

I always figured it's posturing. Just a subtle way to downplay the "enemy" console

 

[sendit]

I've never disputed the limitations of XSS but then again it's a budget console something the usual suspects conveniently forget. Like I said my opinion on this is based off an expert within this field, Insomniac are required to talk up the console its owner created, you decide who's opinion is more likely to be biased.

 

[Md Ray]

You can work around hardware limitations.

Ultimately question needs to be asked, if Dev's could do this in previous generation, why they didn't do it?

Answer is simple, it's a boring mechanic, aimed squarely at forum dwellers to showcase SSD can do something cool.

It could be interesting if used once or twice in entire game at special occassion. The way it's used in R&C, it's kinda meaningless.

It's not just SSD at work here like I said in one of my prev posts. It's a combination of HW decompression in the I/O + the SSD that are doing the heavy lifting. You had none of these in previous-gen consoles, that's why they couldn't do it.



Why do you think previous-gen consoles often had long load times often lasting 30-40 secs and even longer? There's your answer.

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

Lets see your original post.



Wrong.



Wrong again. TF2 was NOT loading data in and out of the SSD. They already had all the data in the VRAM. No other game is doing what Ratchet is doing.

There are SSDs that top out at 500 MBps. Even the Xbox's SSD is only 2.4 GBps. If the PS5 SSD is taking 8 seconds to load 5 GB, how on earth will a 2-10x slower SSD going to load it in the same amount of time? Magic?

This quote right here isnt just wrong, it's exceptionally foolish. You came up with a scenario that has no basis in reality (5GB per transition), call it believable even know the PS5 has way more than 5GB of VRAM available so technically you wouldnt need to have any loading whatsoever with the data already loaded in VRAM. Then you say it takes a 5.5 GBps SSD 8 seconds to load 5GB of data which should've been your first clue about just how clueless your argument really is, but then you finished it off by saying ANY SSD can do what the PS5's 10x faster SSD can do. I have never seen a post where literally every phrase makes less sense than the one before it.


The funny thing is that you are talking about something Cerny already covered in his Road to PS5 talk. Games already use the RAM to store data that isnt visible to the player. Some 30 seconds of it. You dont see it because of frustum culling with the GPU only rendering what the eyes can see. What the SSD is allowing them to do is essentially apply the frustum culling concept to the RAM and SSD with the SSD being fast enough to load what the eyes can see.

You are missing the entire point. It has nothing to do with how Insomniac choose to achieve it. Do you know the phrase "there is more than one way to skin a cat"
How much data is moved when is not relevant.

On previous-gen consoles? No, wouldn't be happening without long loading screens between each rift. Do you agree?

100% disagree

You're assuming they didn't optimize the best they could? It's Insomniac we're talking about. They are not an indie studio but are industry veterans and are fantastic at what they do. They are the only studio who have offered 4K+60+RT in both their games, which proves they have been optimizing as best as they could at this point of time.

P.S. R&C is in external HDD; I'm too lazy and busy to copy it back to internal at the moment. Can't make promises, but will try. But it won't be more than 1.5 seconds I doubt.

Quotes of them saying how much faster the io was then expected kinda proves my point. They designed a game to work with a much slower io then what they got so they didn't waste time optimizing the io end of it. The rendering is optimized very well. Insomniac is an incredibly talented studio.
Also thanks but don't worry if it's a hassle.

 

[Seph-]

Yeah, that argument is stupid and can apply to every game.

• Flight Simulator: It could work fine on Xbox One. Just push down the graphical fidelity and run it at 480p.
• Red Dead Redemption 2: Just lower the graphical fidelity and remove the AI complexities, and it'll run just fine on Xbox 360 and PS3.

At what point, the essence of the game is lost, and it no longer is the version we are seeing right now.

It's basically insanity in itself. It's become less about games and more about dragging the other down or finding any little thing to fit your narrative because you love a piece of plastic more.

 

[Md Ray]

100% disagree

Then explain why Spider-Man games take 30+ secs to load on PS4, but only ~2 seconds to load the level on PS5? You've been dodging this question multiple times.

 

[Negotiator101]

You are aware I didn't create the video that debunked Insomniacs SSD claims right?

 

[arvfab]

You are aware I didn't create the video that debunked Insomniacs SSD claims right?

Somebody did a video to debunk Insomniac SSD claims? Where? Haven't seen one.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Quotes of them saying how much faster the io was then expected kinda proves my point. They designed a game to work with a much slower io then what they got so they didn't waste time optimizing the io end of it. The rendering is optimized very well. Insomniac is an incredibly talented studio.
Also thanks but don't worry if it's a hassle.

No, the I/O is helping other SSDs utilizing their full capacity (say, 4 Gb/s). Otherwise, without the I/O, a 4Gb/s wouldn't have performed at the full 4 Gb/s, as it also doesn't in PS4s and PCs. There are bottlenecks in I/O that the PS5 doesn't have. Mark Cerny talked about it in detail.

I think you're missing one important point. From Insomniac's perspective, they did the best they could at this point in time, but a console's or engine's capabilities are never fully pushed at the start of the generation. When Insomniac started developing Rift Apart, in their own words, they didn't even know what the PS5 specs would be. They just knew that the SSD and I/O is the focus and will be incredibly fast.

They didn't design it to work with a much slower SSD. That's the best they could do based on their current state of the game engine and their understanding of the PS5 at this point in time. With time, they will learn new techniques, understand the system better, and push the boundaries more.

Many people in this thread are presenting it in a very negative way, as if Insomniac and/or Sony duped their customers. These engines and games will continue to push boundaries. We will see better games going forward that would push the PS5 way more than Rift Apart. At least, I hope so. Otherwise, what's even the point. Rift Apart isn't the end. It's just the beginning, and it's a fucking fantastic beginning.

 

[Schmick]

And not a single PS5 game....

So?... doesn't mean that a man who has been in the industry for thirty years wouldn't be able to explain how it could be done.

Let's get one thing straight.... I'm not attacking the game. The game looks great. I want to play it. I have issue with several posters discrediting a developer who has been in industry as long as he has. His thinking behind how R&C could be done might be different to the way Insomnia has done it.

 

[SlimySnake]

Why do you think previous-gen consoles often had long load times often lasting 30-40 secs and even longer? There's your answer.

No one can explain how we went from 30 second load times to sub second load times.

One would think that after seeing games in action and then after PLAYING these games, we would finally be done with this argument but apparently seeing isnt believing anymore. Everyone has their own version of the truth nowadays.

 

[arvfab]

So?... doesn't mean that a man who has been in the industry for thirty years wouldn't be able to explain how it could be done.

Let's get one thing straight.... I'm not attacking the game. The game looks great. I want to play it. I have issue with several posters discrediting a developer who has been in industry as long as he has. His thinking behind how R&C could be done might be different to the way Insomnia has done it.

The problem is, the video creator only has assumptions, no proof.

He failed to tell any compromises necessary to make the game run on a PS4. He also omitted some other parts in the game, where switching between dimensions happens on the fly, triggered by the player.

Also, only because he is a veteran of the industry, doesn't mean he cannot be wrong. I'm not discrediting him, but people - because it fits their agenda - are giving him more credit than the creators of the game.

 

[Schmick]

The problem is, the video creator only has assumptions, no proof.

He failed to tell any compromises necessary to make the game run on a PS4. He also omitted some other parts in the game, where switching between dimensions happens on the fly, triggered by the player.

Also, only because he is a veteran of the industry, doesn't mean he cannot be wrong. I'm not discrediting him, but people - because it fits their agenda - are giving him more credit than the creators of the game.

There are 2 portals: local and global.

Local portals are yellow in color and you use them as you see fit by moving in other sections of the same area/level.

Global portals are purple and you don't "interact" with them: you are a passive passenger and they have whole level loading behind.

The magic is not in the portals, but in the fact that since you can stream high quality assets in real time, you can keep the geometry and graphic quality very high all the time.

So the portals that allow players to move between dimensions isn't like how Garani described it then. Guarani mentioned that portals activated by players are those that allow movement across levels/areas not dimensions.

 

[sendit]

You are aware I didn't create the video that debunked Insomniacs SSD claims right?

If you believe the `genius coder`. You should also believe that he debunked XSX Velocity Architect with the SSD being one of the key pieces of the workflow. Why do we even have SSDs in these next gen systems? I say we revert back to mechanical drives.

Additionally. You probably also believe he debunked RTX IO and DirectStorage.

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

Then explain why Spider-Man games take 30+ secs to load on PS4, but only ~2 seconds to load the level on PS5? You've been dodging this question multiple times.

That's totally irrelevant to streaming textures.

No, the I/O is helping other SSDs utilizing their full capacity (say, 4 Gb/s). Otherwise, without the I/O, a 4Gb/s wouldn't have performed at the full 4 Gb/s, as it also doesn't in PS4s and PCs. There are bottlenecks in I/O that the PS5 doesn't have. Mark Cerny talked about it in detail.

I think you're missing one important point. From Insomniac's perspective, they did the best they could at this point in time, but a console's or engine's capabilities are never fully pushed at the start of the generation. When Insomniac started developing Rift Apart, in their own words, they didn't even know what the PS5 specs would be. They just knew that the SSD and I/O is the focus and will be incredibly fast.

They didn't design it to work with a much slower SSD. That's the best they could do based on their current state of the game engine and their understanding of the PS5 at this point in time. With time, they will learn new techniques, understand the system better, and push the boundaries more.

Many people in this thread are presenting it in a very negative way, as if Insomniac and/or Sony duped their customers. These engines and games will continue to push boundaries. We will see better games going forward that would push the PS5 way more than Rift Apart. At least, I hope so. Otherwise, what's even the point. Rift Apart isn't the end. It's just the beginning, and it's a fucking fantastic beginning.

The video has nothing to do with any of this though. It's about from a gameplay experience it's nothing new. Not only that but nowhere in the game is 14gb of data required per second. Again I'm not arguing what Insomniac did, I'm arguing if it was required to deliver a similar experience. No one yet has even commented anything relevant to if it's required for something similar.

 

[xellos2099alpha]

I wanted a next gen version of the Effect and Cause level in Titanfall 2 where you were warping between dimensions on the hoof leading to potentially new and previously impossible gameplay as old systems couldn't keep up with the constant loading.

I got a tech demo that only let you change worlds when the game wanted you to change worlds.

The few times it lets you use rifts outside of on-rails sections or cutscenes still don't let you change worlds at will but only when you hit the time crystals and those levels have level design so linear that you may as well be going in a straight line.

Whatever tech underlying the game may be impressive but there's no avoiding the fact that this is super basic game design. What's the point in having something previously impossible if it adds nothing to the gameplay and, in fact, limits you to on-rails or super linear level design?

I enjoyed the game and couldn't fault the gunplay as it is super fun but I definitely feel misled by the marketing. They could have done a better game without the rifts drawing on how great the PS5 is at streaming in data with much more creative level design but they went for a gimmick instead.

Right, wasn;t therer a level in Titanfall 2 and Dishonor 2 where you can trigger an item anything and you can swapto different time period as you want? It is a similiar concept to Rift apart but in much smaller scale.

 

[Md Ray]

That's totally irrelevant to streaming textures.

What? I'm talking about loading a save game from the menus. It takes 30+ seconds on PS4, but just 2 seconds on the PS5. How is this possible?

Stop sidestepping.

 

[Negotiator101]

If you believe the `genius coder`. You should also believe that he debunked XSX Velocity Architect with the SSD being one of the key pieces of the workflow. Why do we even have SSDs in these next gen systems? I say we revert back to mechanical drives.

I think you missed the point of the video, the claims that the SSD would afford gameplay not possible before (as the developer has claimed for Ratchet) is not true. Nobody is saying the SSD's are not better and more efficient etc. What the gentleman is SAYING is just that the SSD is not in this CASE doing something that couldn't have been done before without an SSD. I really don't understand all the defending going on, this takes nothing away from Insomniac or the PS5.

 

[Garani]

How much data is loaded though? It's completely not confirmed. I would guess around 1gb.

That figure is based on what data? You didn't work on the game, as far as I know, so how can you be so sure that the data pulled is 1GB and not 5, 9, 200GB?

So the portals that allow players to move between dimensions isn't like how Garani described it then. Guarani mentioned that portals activated by players are those that allow movement across levels/areas not dimensions.

I did not mention the gemstones that you hit to trigger change of dimension. When talking about portals, I was visualising holes, like in Portals My bad.

There are 2 planets where you are required to travel between dimensions to be able to traverse and get items. One is very cinematic, because it loads a whole open space in mere instants, with geometry that is significantly different between dimensions.

 

[Kenpachii]

He's right in this video.

The gameplay is possible on any console or game device really also PC. What insomniac claims is false.

However at the fidelity, that yet has to be seen so saying the endresult of what insomiac showcased with R&C not needing a SSD of its caliber can't be proven unless they showcase the data of how it interacts.
I would say r&C probably needs a fast SSD. but that's just a wild guess as i have no clue how much memory they do allocate to those area shifts.

What insomiac should have said was, we can move and jump and load through worlds at a fidelity unsean before which is only possible on the SSD of the performance what we see in the PS5.

But that's not what the video is about, or what imsonmiac is claiming, they are claiming new way of gameplay that couldn't be done before and that's false.

 

[Whitecrow]

Stop the bullshit.

FF7R went from 40 secs to 2.
Doesnt matter if R&C preloads or not. Doesnt matter if it's 2 seconds or 8 seconds.

If with that SSD it loads in 8 seconds, with a mechanical drive it could be almost 2 minutes perfectly.
And you cannot make R&C:RA gameplay with that.

So shut up already can you?

 

[mckmas8808]

You're pretty sure huh. I'm also pretty sure there was an interview with ex-killzone 2 devs saying that demo they made was never supposed to be shown to the public and that was entirely an arbitrary decision from management.

And well, the dev in the twitter indeed isn't lying. In fact, when going from one level to another in half life games you're also seeing one level being unloaded entirely from memory and another being pulled from the hdd/ssd or whatever storage is there, so yeah, he really isn't lying.

He's right in this video.

The gameplay is possible on any console or game device really also PC. What insomniac claims is false.

However at the fidelity, that yet has to be seen so saying the endresult of what insomiac showcased with R&C not needing a SSD of its caliber can't be proven unless they showcase the data of how it interacts.
I would say r&C can't look the way it looks without a form of SSD solution for sure, but that's just a wild guess as i have no clue how much memory they do allocate to those area shifts.

What insomiac should have said was, we can move and jump and load through worlds at a fidelity unsean before which is only possible on the SSD of the performance what we see in the PS5.

But that's not what the video is about, or what imsonmiac is claiming, they are claiming new way of gameplay that couldn't be done before and that's false.

Some of you guys have ZERO idea how games are made.

 

[Kenpachii]

Some of you guys have ZERO idea how games are made.

Sadly i do.

 

[dcmk7]

Moderators really need to take a look into this thread.

Same suspects shitting up another Sony / SSD thread.. *sigh*

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Stop the bullshit.

FF7R went from 40 secs to 2.
Doesnt matter if R&C preloads or not. Doesnt matter if it's 2 seconds or 8 seconds.

If with that SSD it loads in 8 seconds, with a mechanical drive it could be almost 2 minutes perfectly.
And you cannot make R&C:RA gameplay with that.

So shut up already can you?

Not only that, assuming it's using at least 10GB of VRAM, taking 8sec means it neads 4x that VRAM, which is like 40GB, unless you wanna have extreme popins and the infamous Cyberpunk blurry mess, which is even less demanding storage-wise.

 

[dcmk7]

The gameplay is possible on any console or game device really also PC. What insomniac claims is false

 

[Garani]

He's right in this video.

The gameplay is possible on any console or game device really also PC. What insomniac claims is false.

However at the fidelity, that yet has to be seen so saying the endresult of what insomiac showcased with R&C not needing a SSD of its caliber can't be proven unless they showcase the data of how it interacts.
I would say r&C probably needs a fast SSD. but that's just a wild guess as i have no clue how much memory they do allocate to those area shifts.

What insomiac should have said was, we can move and jump and load through worlds at a fidelity unsean before which is only possible on the SSD of the performance what we see in the PS5.

But that's not what the video is about, or what imsonmiac is claiming, they are claiming new way of gameplay that couldn't be done before and that's false.

Yeah, like "let's hit that gem over there and have a loading screen for 30/60 seconds until I load a totally new level".

We haven't seen a major shift in gameplay yet, but this is the very first current gen game and developers need to understand how to leverage feature toward new gameplay. For example with a new Spiderman game, if it were current gen only, I wouldn't expect a different gameplay than what we have now: swinging in NYC is part of the experience.

 

[MasterCornholio]

You people are seriously calling Insomniac frauds after all the good they did?

Honestly I feel really bad for them given their recent track record.

 

[Kenpachii]

Instead of laughing u could make a argument why u think its so funny. But u can't because u have no clue how any of this stuff works.

U can preload data in memory or even render at the same time multiple worlds with absolute no complexity at all, u can then jump through the worlds one by one bye one and load the next one without effort even on a mechical HDD. hell there was this PC demo that demonstrated this exact thing in what? 90's?

Nobody here is talking about R&C fidelity being loaded while doing so. Its about the gameplay side of things which is factually false because gameplay wise its perfectly possible even if you have to drop fidelity massively.

Would R&C be possible on a PS3 with its fidelity it showcases hell no, fidelity is way to high and the complexity of the world also. How the memory and SSD interact is something we won't know until insomiac showcases us the data however. The game could very well use all 5,5gbps of the SSD that sony has in it, it could also very well only use a fraction of it. We don't know because we have no clue what the game really is doing and allocating.

You people are seriously calling Insomniac frauds after all the good they did?

Honestly I feel really bad for them given their recent track record.

I would call it bad wording. They weren't careful enough with choosing there words.

 

[Garani]

You people are seriously calling Insomniac frauds after all the good they did?

This is console warring for you.

 

[sendit]

I think you missed the point of the video, the claims that the SSD would afford gameplay not possible before (as the developer has claimed for Ratchet) is not true. Nobody is saying the SSD's are not better and more efficient etc. What the gentleman is SAYING is just that the SSD is not in this CASE doing something that couldn't have been done before without an SSD. I really don't understand all the defending going on, this takes nothing away from Insomniac or the PS5.

Loading is part of the overall gameplay experience, is it not?

If the system had large amounts of VRAM, everything could technically be loaded in to memory negating the need for an SSD or some specialized hardware de-compressors. The inital load would just be incredibly long. So yes, he technically is correct. However, having large amounts of VRAM is not financially feasible in a consumer device (everyone would complain about the price). Could Insomniac have done this in the past with lesser quality assets, probably.

 

[Garani]

How the memory and SSD interact is something we won't know until insomiac showcases us the data however.

He told you all about it in March 2020. You probably didn't pay attention.

 

[Kenpachii]

He told you all about it in March 2020. You probably didn't pay attention.

I explained just a second ago, how u can do something gameplay wise without even needing a SSD on another platform.

What cerny says in that video isn't relevant towards that, as he discusses there what happens when u do use there SSD on the PS5 which obviously is used in R&C because why wouldn't they.