cireza
Member
Only two. He also explains how to achieve this on previous hardware.
This guy, for information, implemented a double frame buffer on the MegaDrive for Sonic 3D back in 1995.
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Incredible Ratchet & Clankgameplay demo reveals PS5’s SSD difference
- Thread starter Lunatic_Gamer
- Start date
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This guy, for information, implemented a double frame buffer on the MegaDrive for Sonic 3D back in 1995.
Werewolfgrandma
Banned
No the section of the map takes all Ram. You can dump things and still have plenty of time to load them again if the player decided to turn around and go back.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Shots fired. I wonder if anyone can debunk this.
He creates a narrative based on the first sequence of the game and then says, "This can be done on the PlayStation 3!"
What he fails to realize is that this isn't the only way the SSD is used in the game. Blaizar Mines change instantly. The only thing remaining is the platform she's standing on while everything else is swapped out of memory.
Before anyone says, "they just loaded a different backdrop", James already responded to this accusation on Twitter months ago.
The video goes into detail about how he's wrong about the pocket dimensions, too.
So it wasn't hard to debunk this based on what the developers have told us.
Thirty7ven
Banned
This comment is what I agree with most.
Well this was the first game they developed where they didn’t have to impose hard limits on enemy types.
Technology is enabling new things all the time, it’s just that if we want to be reductive about it we will. At least it improves gameplay, but even then you can get someone to say the gameplay isn’t actually improved.
Anyway, bitter haters in every industry.
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Whitecrow
Banned
If the point of portals and dimensions is that you can jump between them in seconds, hence being able to use it as a gameplay feature, you cant achive the same results in a mechanical drive.
Doesnt matter how you spin it. The gameplay of the game can only be achieved in an SSD.
You wanna keep talking about how the guys says the trick of asset streaming in the background can be done in older hardare? OK.
The gameplay cant.
Darius87
Member
it couldn't be done on previous gen consoles, what he explains is totally different streaming tech from what is in R&C. saying two streaming tech is the same and don't affect game excpierence is nonsense.
Papacheeks
Banned
The thing you and others are not understanding is megadrive is rendering and using flat assets, flat plane models. Like the geometry alone in Ratchet needs a lot of VRAM, not counting all the character models and extra added level detail and assets being pulled through.
He may be right in terms of the demo which is a more on rail section. But the thing he's not talking about is asset density and amount of assets on screen at one time. Sure you def can make this on PS4 but I would have to believe asset quality/density and amount of assets on screen that are loaded into VRAM would have to be scaled back significantly and de-rezzed in their rendered quality to make it work smoothly on past gen.
Darius87
Member
https://www.theverge.com/22431256/ratchet-and-clank-rift-apart-ps5-interiew-tech-ray-tracing-ssd
when going thru portal between different levels you have to flush old and load in new assets at the moment when you're inside between two portals which takes 1-3 seconds, you can't do that in previous generations because what insomniac said in quote(bold).
cireza
Member
That's his point. The SSD does not enable this, it was possible before. Moving dynamically from one background to another is nothing new.
cireza
Member
The fact that you don't know the guy doesn't make him less an expert, and not the kind that brags about it. He has been posting great videos for years. This man simply explain things, he does not have a childish opinion to defend.
assurdum
Banned
So Nsomniac lie?
Md Ray
Member
Even the creators of the game can't debunk what he said? I have one question for you...
If Rift Apart's instant level switching/loading is possible with HDD on a PS4, then why does their Spider-Man game takes anywhere from 25 to over 30+ seconds to load on PS4/Pro, but near instantly on PS5 with an SSD? Surely if "no SSD is needed", then PS4 should be able to load Spider-Man and Miles Morales in 2 seconds, no?
Have you thought about that for a sec?
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cireza
Member
Of course they did to some extent. This was a PR move to sell the PS5. Are you that naive ?
Thirty7ven
Banned
I didn’t say he didn’t have programming experience, but a genius coder? This video alone says he’s anything but a genius.
cireza
Member
Lol. The guy is definitely an outstanding developer. Check his videos instead of being like this.
assurdum
Banned
Are you kidding? So they developed exclusively for ps5 just to sell hardware? So why Sony didn't the same for the other exclusive?
assurdum
Banned
Nsomniac indeed are just a bunch of cunts payed by sony right?
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Very interesting video. Usual PR hyperbole from devs to sell their games. I imagine it uses the SSD very well in the PS5 but it would probably be fine on any form of SSD.
I must admit that the portal stuff didn't impress me as much as I thought it would in the game. Its not used that often.
I must admit that the portal stuff didn't impress me as much as I thought it would in the game. Its not used that often.
MasterCornholio
Member
I don't think the developers lied about what they said. As for any form of SSD I doubt it would function well on the slowest SSDs on the market.
If you make some drastic changes in the way the game is built then you can even get it to run on a PS4. But I would doubt it would be the same experience.
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assurdum
Banned
Isn't it an hyperbole also said such game was easily possible in previous generation? When the same Nsomniac has said it was impossible to them to port on PS4?
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MasterCornholio
Member
Did the developers say on any platform or just last gen systems?
There's a pretty clear difference between the two.
Werewolfgrandma
Banned
I don't think you took my advice to watch the video again and this time without looking for some bad intent.
assurdum
Banned
He presumed everything is on the rail during the teleport but personally seems really ignore how Nsomniac achieved it. A lot of strawman chats. Something similar is possible to imitate in the past generation, I guess, I think he misunderstood what Nsomniac intended at all with not possible in the past, but I don't think everything it's loaded on the rail as he tries to sell.
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Whitecrow
Banned
They didnt even think about FF7R loading, 40 secs VS 2 secs.
People here are calling genius a guy for talking about background asset streaming.
Dont need to say more.
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Guilty_AI
Member
I mean, they are paid by sony indeed
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Schmick
Member
So the guy doesn't know what he is talking about?
assurdum
Banned
So Sony pays the others to make all cross-gen but for Nsomniac did the contrary to sell more ps5...mmm. Genial.
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Pal you're the biggest fanboy who has ever been or ever will be. Once again we have narrow minded individuals on this site who even faced with an industry veteran telling them an SSD is not needed, they still bury their heads in the sandI can't quite believe the ignorance on display.
Strange when industry veteran tell that XSS is a potential bottleneck, their opinion is somehow dismissed ("b...b...but they have yet to find out how the magical RAM saving features....").
Yet, this guy now "proves" how the SSD is not necessary, by giving his assumptions and with no real proof.
Anyway, that guy should also point out in his video, what the comprimises would be to port the game to last gen(s). It's not like the RAM amount, for example, is the same. Lower assets quality, longer loading times (maybe even midgame...), sub-30 fps, smaller environments, less effects.. etc.
Ah but wait, if he starts to list such compromises, people would start to argue that, indeed, the game is benefitting from an SSD....
Negotiator101
Member
I've never disputed the limitations of XSS but then again it's a budget console something the usual suspects conveniently forget. Like I said my opinion on this is based off an expert within this field, Insomniac are required to talk up the console its owner created, you decide who's opinion is more likely to be biased.
Strange when industry veteran tell that XSS is a potential bottleneck, their opinion is somehow dismissed ("b...b...but they have yet to find out how the magical RAM saving features....").
Yet, this guy now "proves" how the SSD is not necessary, by giving his assumptions and with no real proof.
Anyway, that guy should also point out in his video, what the comprimises would be to port the game to last gen(s). It's not like the RAM amount, for example, is the same. Lower assets quality, longer loading times (maybe even midgame...), sub-30 fps, smaller environments, less effects.. etc.
Ah but wait, if he starts to list such compromises, people would start to argue that, indeed, the game is benefitting from an SSD....
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Not been following the conversation, but are you talking about Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart and the SSD? In that case, we do have an official confirmation from Insomniac.Pal you're the biggest fanboy who has ever been or ever will be. Once again we have narrow minded individuals on this site who even faced with an industry veteran telling them an SSD is not needed, they still bury their heads in the sand
This tweet confirms two things:
1. An SSD is needed for Rift Apart. And not just any SSD, but a high-speed SSD is needed.
2. Below-spec SSDs were 15% slower in stressed areas.
Negotiator101
Member
TBiddy
Member
No, it confirms that "below-spec" SSDs works and that in very specific areas, the loading were "up to 15% slower". I don't doubt that the game would run terribly on an HDD, but the tweet in question doesn't say anything about that. It's not really detailed in any way.
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Bernd Lauert
Banned
Why do you call one an industry veteran and the other "this guy"? The guy is an industry veteran too.
Strange when industry veteran tell that XSS is a potential bottleneck, their opinion is somehow dismissed ("b...b...but they have yet to find out how the magical RAM saving features....").
Yet, this guy now "proves" how the SSD is not necessary, by giving his assumptions and with no real proof.
DForce
just dropped a (imo) solid debunk, I wonder if someone can debunk the debunk.
assurdum
Banned
Nsomniac already did some page ago via Twitter. They laughed about it. I bet all my balls most of you even knows who was him until now.Why do you call one an industry veteran and the other "this guy"? The guy is an industry veteran too.
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basically as everyone with a brain said thousands times ....you can have r&c type of game on every console .....100ms loading against 85ms....HUGE limitations i see..
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assurdum
Banned
I see huge limitations here too.
Unknown?
Member
Lol. About the same as yours.Unbiased opinions I see
Whitecrow
Banned
If you think having 1 or 2 minutes of transition from map to map instead of 2 seconds offers the same gameplay, then yes, he knows what he is talking about.
If not, then no, he did an embarrasing video.
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Gamerguy84
Member
The game and how it performs is the experience. Try to put it on a HDD and it gets crucified for being too ambitious and it "runs terrible"
Industry veterans say that the XSS is a bottleneck for the generation, for new gaming experiences. Something the usual suspects conveniently forget.
Again, this expert within this field only provides assumptions, Insomniac (you know, also experts and creators of the game) - while surely biased - provided proofs.
Could Rift Apart be ported to the previous gen? Probably. Would it be a different gaming experience? For sure.
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lol....15 ms more into the portal I'm sure no one can accept it ....lol
you are forcibly blind
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Kazza
Member
That's really disappointing to hear. From all the hype, I just assumed that you could do the warp pretty much anywhere (which could lead to some interesting gameplay/tactics), but having the warps as glorified cut scenes is very underwhelming.
I remember the Sonic CD devs talk abut how they initially wanted to have instantaneous time travel, but eventually had to insert transition screens to allow for loading due to hardware limitations. Looks like the same is the case with Ratchet.
Werewolfgrandma
Banned
Question for people who own the game. At max sensitivity how long does it take to do a 360?
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
You obviously haven't played the game. There are areas in the game where you are constantly traveling to different dimensions, and even puzzles are a part of that dimension-hopping. Imagine waiting for 1 minute for the dimension to load in a dense section where you have to do it 20 times.
"our game does rely on high-quality storage."
And it couldn't be any clearer than this.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Never tried it that way, but I'd imagine it'd be ~1-1.5 second.
But the experience would be a different one, with longer loading times, maybe even level/game design changes just to make it work!
It's like saying, FS2020 is nothing special, as there is a flight simulator working in the browser https://www.geo-fs.com/
Guilty_AI
Member
...so sony paying the salary of a team of devs they own is somehow a crazy conspiracy theory?
So Sony pays the others to make all cross-gen but for Nsomniac did the contrary to sell more ps5...mmm. Genial.
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