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I wouldn't enable Dynamic Contrast because it's equivalent to Dynamic Range Compression for audio. You're clipping information.


If Dynamic Contrast needs to be enabled, it just highlights the shortcomings of the TV honestly. Peak brightness just goes to show how far away the technology is from hitting 100% of HDR. The price of being an early adopter really. It's why the stopgap to calibrating HDR is to calibrate to the capabilities of the TV than the HDR standard because no TV right now exists that can hit it. Even this year's Sony ZD9, which is the closest to that standard in terms of peak brightness, is short. With that said, it's not that the TVs aren't tested personally. The technology isn't there yet and still in development, and buyers need to realize that's what investing in it now means. It's why DCI-P3 numbers sound nicer than BT. 2020. For example, the Samsung KU6300 doesn't even support WCG. Now look what happened this year for 2016 models :lol

I meant tested by reviewers etc, it's like they calibrate to old standards still, but I guess it's the panels that are probably not up to it, but yeah I agree, it is certainly open to interpretation from user to user as it's an open field at the moment, but I'm pretty sure it isn't meant to look as we're told from TV specialist reviewers, so tweaking is an necessity! Dull HDR with your new TV sir? Errrrrrrrr no thanks.

 

[f@luS]

People saying no for dynamic contrast on oled + games in hdr. Just try. It is needed. Without it it's far too dark or dull. I know without hdr it's always off for me obviously but I tried everything and both for Xbox one and now PS4, for hdr it has to be on. I spent days calibrating my tv so I know how the picture is supposed to look and I can achieve this with hdr game only with dynamic contrast. It looks exactly the same as my game mode Sdr settings minus hdr

 

[Geneijin]

I meant tested by reviewers etc, it's like they calibrate to old standards still, but I guess it's the panels that are probably not up to it, but yeah I agree, it is certainly open to interpretation from user to user as it's an open field at the moment, but I'm pretty sure it isn't meant to look as we're told from TV specialist reviewers, so tweaking is an necessity! Dull HDR with your new TV sir? Errrrrrrrr no thanks.

The standard is HDR or Rec. 2020. Even though there is no TV in existence that meets that theoretical standard yet, just think of it as a placeholder. There isn't much left to interpret aside from PQ EOTF 2048. The methodology to calibrate HDR10/Dolby Vision is still in development, but the standard to meet that hasn't changed. It's why if you wanted to calibrate current TVs for HDR10 today, they're calibrated based on the display's capabilities and 50%/75% of Rec. 2020 because no TV is capable of 100% of the Rec. 2020 color space yet. Otherwise, you'll introduce color clipping. Moreover, ever since Sony announced the PS4 Pro, you get threads like this where it's fairly evident many people don't bother to calibrate their TVs or understand why you should, but they're for these exact reasons actually that crop up in these threads: how should things look so there isn't confusion how to calibrate.

People saying no for dynamic contrast on oled + games in hdr. Just try. It is needed. Without it it's far too dark or dull. I know without hdr it's always off for me obviously but I tried everything and both for Xbox one and now PS4, for hdr it has to be on. I spent days calibrating my tv so I know how the picture is supposed to look and I can achieve this with hdr game only with dynamic contrast. It looks exactly the same as my game mode Sdr settings minus hdr

How are you calibrating exactly? Are you using HCFR? SpectraCAL? Test patterns from AVS HD 709? Disney WOW: World of Wonder? Spears and Munsil 2nd Ed HD Benchmark and Calibration?

 

[III-V]

The standard is HDR or Rec. 2020. Even though there is no TV in existence that meets that theoretical standard yet, just think of it as a placeholder. There isn't much left to interpret aside from PQ EOTF 2048. The methodology to calibrate HDR10/Dolby Vision is still in development, but the standard to meet that hasn't changed. It's why if you wanted to calibrate current TVs for HDR10 today, they're calibrated based on the display's capabilities and 50%/75% of Rec. 2020 because no TV is capable of 100% of the Rec. 2020 color space yet. Otherwise, you'll introduce color clipping. Moreover, ever since Sony announced the PS4 Pro, you get threads like this where it's fairly evident many people don't bother to calibrate their TVs or understand why you should, but they're for these exact reasons actually that crop up in these threads: how should things look so there isn't confusion how to calibrate.


How are you calibrating exactly? Are you using HCFR? SpectraCAL? Test patterns from AVS HD 709? Disney WOW: World of Wonder? Spears and Munsil 2nd Ed HD Benchmark and Calibration?

he's right you know.

I bet there is about 20 GAF'ers know how to calibrate their monitors with HCFR or Spectral. I would hope about 10% have used a set-up disc to nail down the black level and contrast. Its really hilarious to hear armchair pros mouth off about what settings everyone should use.

no tv out there currently can be calibrated wcg color for HDR. even a TV that qualifies as wide color gamut only meets just over 90% of DCI P3 and maybe ~70% of rec2020. Think about that. You can't calibrate for color. Blue, you'll get close. Red, it'll look better than your str set, green? a long ways out.

This is a technology that is in its infancy. I am an early adopter b/c I was made a believer in HDR after seeing it. No doubt, I will be buying another TV within the next 5 years as this technology matures. True WCG, better contrast, sets with full array (and high element count) and 4k+ nits is going to level even the best sets today.

And I can't wait. HDR can look fantastic at 300-500 nits with quality HD feed and good mastering and wcg.

This game is really a fantastic use of HDR, not sure whats up with the OLED peeps. Maybe some folks who have both can chime in.

 

[mordecaii83]

I have to agree with f@luS, I've tried calibrating my OLED while in HDR mode and it's impossible to get it to look correct without using Dynamic Contrast. I'd be thrilled if someone could come in here and tell me I'm wrong and what I should be doing different, but I've tried everything I know to try and without Dynamic Contrast my image looks dull and flat compared to SDR content that is 100% correctly calibrated.

 

[D23]

Alot of users in Reddit and avsforums also have dynamic contrast on for hdr using the ks8000. Otherwise the picture just look dull and way too dark no matter what.

My question is does enabling dynamic contrast raises the input lag more?

 

[Pocky4Th3Win]

So today I decided to buy new HDMI Cables because I didn't know if the ones I were using were HDMI High Speed and man it made a difference, my picture is not nearly as dark as it use to be and the brights are so much brighter.

I bought the Rocketfish cables from Best Buy because anything more is a waste of money. Yeah I know for none employees they are also expensive so I recommend looking at monoprice for equivalent cables.

 

[f@luS]

The standard is HDR or Rec. 2020. Even though there is no TV in existence that meets that theoretical standard yet, just think of it as a placeholder. There isn't much left to interpret aside from PQ EOTF 2048. The methodology to calibrate HDR10/Dolby Vision is still in development, but the standard to meet that hasn't changed. It's why if you wanted to calibrate current TVs for HDR10 today, they're calibrated based on the display's capabilities and 50%/75% of Rec. 2020 because no TV is capable of 100% of the Rec. 2020 color space yet. Otherwise, you'll introduce color clipping. Moreover, ever since Sony announced the PS4 Pro, you get threads like this where it's fairly evident many people don't bother to calibrate their TVs or understand why you should, but they're for these exact reasons actually that crop up in these threads: how should things look so there isn't confusion how to calibrate.


How are you calibrating exactly? Are you using HCFR? SpectraCAL? Test patterns from AVS HD 709? Disney WOW: World of Wonder? Spears and Munsil 2nd Ed HD Benchmark and Calibration?

Disney wow + few other test I put on USB stick
You can search for my thread I have crazy issue calibrating sound on Xbox one (I bought it for uhd ) and spent days for video settings. So I'm saying again. Dynamic contrast for hdr is needed. By default on vivid setting for exemple there is no option for it as it's automatically activated and can't change it. (though other settings of vivid are overblown so it sux

D23 : not seeing added input lag with dynamic contrast. It's easy to test on PS4 as it's an ingame option not a system setting

 

[McSpidey]

From the sounds of things the problem is made worse by LG - they need to fix their OLED HDR mode so it doesn't require dynamic contrast to be turned on.

 

[Geneijin]

he's right you know.

I bet there is about 20 GAF'ers know how to calibrate their monitors with HCFR or Spectral. I would hope about 10% have used a set-up disc to nail down the black level and contrast. Its really hilarious to hear armchair pros mouth off about what settings everyone should use.

no tv out there currently can be calibrated wcg color for HDR. even a TV that qualifies as wide color gamut only meets just over 90% of DCI P3 and maybe ~70% of rec2020. Think about that. You can't calibrate for color. Blue, you'll get close. Red, it'll look better than your str set, green? a long ways out.

This is a technology that is in its infancy. I am an early adopter b/c I was made a believer in HDR after seeing it. No doubt, I will be buying another TV within the next 5 years as this technology matures. True WCG, better contrast, sets with full array (and high element count) and 4k+ nits is going to level even the best sets today.

And I can't wait. HDR can look fantastic at 300-500 nits with quality HD feed and good mastering and wcg.

This game is really a fantastic use of HDR, not sure whats up with the OLED peeps. Maybe some folks who have both can chime in.

SpectraCal released an HDR10 workflow for 5.7.0. There's even a tutorial of how to calibrate for HDR10 by SpectraCal despite current display limitations. I've already mentioned how to calibrate for HDR10 with 50% and 75% saturation sweeps earlier, sited a reference, and why that's done for current TVs (to avoid the color clipping issue). I'm not ignoring the fact it's impossible to calibrate to Rec. 2020 right now because it is if you're trying to aim for 100% of Rec. 2020. What's the difficulty of understanding that? Just look at the current test patterns for HDR10.

Disney wow + few other test I put on USB stick
You can search for my thread I have crazy issue calibrating sound on Xbox one (I bought it for uhd ) and spent days for video settings. So I'm saying again. Dynamic contrast for hdr is needed. By default on vivid setting for exemple there is no option for it as it's automatically activated and can't change it. (though other settings of vivid are overblown so it sux

D23 : not seeing added input lag with dynamic contrast. It's easy to test on PS4 as it's an ingame option not a system setting

There are new test patterns for HDR calibration, but that's basically impossible without a colorimeter, spectrophotometer, and HDR test patterns like a Murideo Six-G, R. Masciola, or Samsung if you're ISF. There aren't really free consumer options right now for this unless you're willing to pay.

I have to agree with f@luS, I've tried calibrating my OLED while in HDR mode and it's impossible to get it to look correct without using Dynamic Contrast. I'd be thrilled if someone could come in here and tell me I'm wrong and what I should be doing different, but I've tried everything I know to try and without Dynamic Contrast my image looks dull and flat compared to SDR content that is 100% correctly calibrated.

Like I said above. You need new test patterns for HDR.

 

[Hurricane43]

EXCLUSIVE: PS4 PRO Gameplay (Infamous Second Son) UHD 2160p, HDR, BT2020 on LG 4K OLED TV [4K UHD]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW2zMWVn1So

 

[Wildstar75]

EXCLUSIVE: PS4 PRO Gameplay (Infamous Second Son) UHD 2160p, HDR, BT2020 on LG 4K OLED TV [4K UHD]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW2zMWVn1So

Sweet Jesus that looks good!

 

[SolidusDave]

Thanks to whoever suggested changing black level on LG sets to high instead of low if you have set the PS4 to wide or whatever. I have a LCD display, but local dimming solves the issue with grey looking blacks mostly (although local dimming can be visible, e.g. on the TLoU loading screen).
No more black crush in HDR


I think I adjusted the HDR mode settings to my liking now, seems to cover the whole range from darks to brights with natural looking colors. It looks now close to the non-HDR settings apart from the obvious benefits. HDR is subtle on my TV but still an improvement.
Also barely had to change ingame brightness in Deus Ex while R&C looks good right from the start (but has no slider anyway ), so I think I can use these settings for most games.

First Light (even with brightness cranked up) still looks like ass in HDR though, at least during the day and not using the neon powers.

 

[Summer Haze]

Sweet Jesus that looks good!

It's off-screen footage...

 

[airjoca]

On PS4:

RGB range full
HDR automatic
Deep color output automatic

On the TV:
On general settings, turn hdmi ultra HD deep colour on for the hdmi port the PS4 is using

I'm using HDR bright, dynamic contrast- low, color gamut - wide, Black level - high.

Think those are all the important settings.

So, these were the settings I used with 2nd Son on regular PS4 on my Oled.

Yesterday, with First Light on the Pro, I had to change the black level on the TV to low. Don't know if it's a difference between Pro or regular PS4 or a difference between 2nd Son and First Light...

 

[Shane89]

There is DAY/NIGHT differences with infamous HDR

Someone know how to resize the previews?

 

[Shin-Ra]

Did SP add extra particle effects in First Light? I don't remember there being this much steam from the rooftop fan things at night.

 

[scitek]

I can't see shit with HDR on. Even with in-game brightness turned all the way up and my TVs gamma at 1.8, the blacks are crushed. Pretty sure the dusk/night settings are wreaking havoc on my set's local dimming, too.

 

[2blackcats]

I can't see shit with HDR on. Even with in-game brightness turned all the way up and my TVs gamma at 1.8, the blacks are crushed. Pretty sure the dusk/night settings are wreaking havoc on my set's local dimming, too.

This is a settings problem. If you go to one of the trouble shooting threads with your TV model number someone should be able to help you out.

 

[Me_Marcadet]

I can't see shit with HDR on. Even with in-game brightness turned all the way up and my TVs gamma at 1.8, the blacks are crushed. Pretty sure the dusk/night settings are wreaking havoc on my set's local dimming, too.

There's something wrong with the game, I don't have an HDR TV and the black are crushed to the point where I can't see anything in some instances. I don't remember the game being like that before. It's not my calibration because every other game and Blu-ray are fine. I think the game force the ps4 to full Rgb. I will test the game on my launch ps4.

 

[Geneijin]

Oh, since this thread was bump, to those with a LG OLED B6P, the latest firmware improved HDR10 tracking, so that could be why your image looked too dark.

The new firmware also fixes PQ EOTF tracking, or in other words how bright/dark HDR10 content is reproduced. This issue (or more likely, decision) also affected LG’s other OLED TVs to some extent.

Read more at http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1478257494#illiCEJKIKpWPUVD.99

 

[Deepo]

Yep, this is a newly introduced issue. I've played through it multiple times, and it certainly wasn't like this before. Might be different on the OG PS4 though, only tested the new version on the Pro.

Edit: I'm playing on the same TV as I played it on originally, so I doubt it's TV-settings related.

 

[2blackcats]

Yep, this is a newly introduced issue. I've played through it multiple times, and it certainly wasn't like this before. Might be different on the OG PS4 though, only tested the new version on the Pro.

Edit: I'm playing on the same TV as I played it on originally, so I doubt it's TV-settings related.

It must be a bug with how the game is communicating with the TV because while the problem is widespread, it's fine for the majority.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

Do we think First Light will get a Pro patch?

 

[2blackcats]

Do we think First Light will get a Pro patch?

It has one.

 

[leng jai]

I'm also getting insane black crush in First Light on the Pro and I'm not even using HDR. It happens on both RGB full and limited so I have no idea how to fix it.

 

[dogmaan]

I'm also getting insane black crush in First Light on the Pro and I'm not even using HDR. It happens on both RGB full and limited so I have no idea how to fix it.

Yup me too, my setup is PS4 Pro, 1080p display, Full RGB, and no HDR.

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

It has one.

jacknicholsonnodding.gif

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

Didn't this game always have extremely deep blacks anyway ? I seem to remember it always being pretty dark at certain times, with colours and contrast over saturated. HDR really makes the colours (especially the Neon) look amazing though.

 

[Kyoufu]

I'm also getting insane black crush in First Light on the Pro and I'm not even using HDR. It happens on both RGB full and limited so I have no idea how to fix it.

I have to set my TV's black level setting to high so that blacks aren't crushed as much.

 

[scitek]

Didn't this game always have extremely deep blacks anyway ? I seem to remember it always being pretty dark at certain times, with colours and contrast over saturated. HDR really makes the colours (especially the Neon) look amazing though.

Not to the point I couldn't even see the game. There's something wrong because it's happening with HDR off, too. The colors do pop, but the lack of any detail anywhere else on screen is bound to make that happen.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

Not to the point I couldn't even see the game. There's something wrong because it's happening with HDR off, too. The colors do pop, but the lack of any detail anywhere else on screen is bound to make that happen.

Maybe I'm remembering it wrong then, been a long time since I played it. Could be a bug with the update then.

 

[f@luS]

I'm also getting insane black crush in First Light on the Pro and I'm not even using HDR. It happens on both RGB full and limited so I have no idea how to fix it.

Indeed looks much darker than before. Hdr or no, tv and ps4 limited or full

 

[SolidusDave]

There is DAY/NIGHT differences with infamous HDR

Someone know how to resize the previews?[/IMG]

You should not be able to see the differences on non-HDR monitors. The fact that you do in your screens means something is messed up with the game.
edit: would actually be interesting to have people who say it's fine for them post such comparison screens. As I'm highly suspecting the black crush is there as well...


First Light got another patch, I may try it later to see if HDR was fixed (only says bug fixes).

 

[Kyoufu]

It's not a great HDR master by Sucker Punch. There are a lot of brightness/contrast issues all over the place. Images which suddenly lose detail depending on your camera angle. Not good.

 

[BarringGaffner]

It's not a great HDR master by Sucker Punch. There are a lot of brightness/contrast issues all over the place. Images which suddenly lose detail depending on your camera angle. Not good.

You could say the exact same about the SDR version.

It looked pretty at times but the brightness/glows/contrast are way off... so this really doesn't surprise me.

 

[leng jai]

As far as I'm concerned this game is basically broken half the time with how crushed the blacks are depending on the scene.

 

[Shadowman16]

So - regarding the black crush problem on inFAMOUS that myself and some other people are having, I got an email response back from Sucker Punch regarding the issue:

"Dear
Thank you! We at Sucker Punch are constantly striving to improve our quality and integration with the gaming community, and your report will help us do that.

We would like to inform that we investigated the brightness issue that surfaced after the PS4 Pro patch, we successfully determined the cause, and we are currently working on a new patch that will expose the legacy brightness/contrast behavior, as a user choice. Our goal is that, by doing this, we will be able to accommodate the different brightness behaviors we are observing, depending on the brand and model of the TV being used.

We are finalizing the new code, and should have this new patch ready soon.

Thank you for your support!
Sucker Punch Team"



So basically another patch is coming that should fix things for those affected. Really pleased at the quick response, I loved my First Light playthrough even with the black crush (I played with my TV settings to improve the issue, but it didn't completely fix it) so a complete fix would probably prompt me to replay it (and Second Son) again as the improved frame rate is such a big improvement for the game for me.

 

[Shin-Ra]

Great news, hopefully no more can't see shit captain in shadowy areas.

 

[RedlineRonin]

Interesting thread.

I just picked this up yesterday and started playing through. Playing on Panasonic 55ST60, so 1080p, no HDR. My set has been professionally calibrated. The blacks are still crushed to hell and back, so the note above from SP makes sense as to it not being intentional.

Really think the game looks impressive; very contrasty and punchy look to the colors.

 

[BradleyLove]

Picked up a Pro at the weekend and First Light is exhibiting a weird problem. Basically Fetch will start running towards the camera on her own. Really annoying. So far it's only First Light that exhibits characters moving of their own accord, so that doesn't suggest a dodgy controller.

Anyone have any experience like this?

 

[airjoca]

Picked up a Pro at the weekend and First Light is exhibiting a weird problem. Basically Fetch will start running towards the camera on her own. Really annoying. So far it's only First Light that exhibits characters moving of their own accord, so that doesn't suggest a dodgy controller.

Anyone have any experience like this?

That happened to me as well. You should try Paragon, I had the same problem there.

I exchanged the controller due to the fault, and instead of Fetch running down on her own, she'd run to the right. So I said F it, I'll keep it as it is since most games don't register the input.

Dead zone sensitivity is very low on Infamous I guess.

 

[Geneijin]

So - regarding the black crush problem on inFAMOUS that myself and some other people are having, I got an email response back from Sucker Punch regarding the issue:

"Dear
Thank you! We at Sucker Punch are constantly striving to improve our quality and integration with the gaming community, and your report will help us do that.

We would like to inform that we investigated the brightness issue that surfaced after the PS4 Pro patch, we successfully determined the cause, and we are currently working on a new patch that will expose the legacy brightness/contrast behavior, as a user choice. Our goal is that, by doing this, we will be able to accommodate the different brightness behaviors we are observing, depending on the brand and model of the TV being used.

We are finalizing the new code, and should have this new patch ready soon.

Thank you for your support!
Sucker Punch Team"



So basically another patch is coming that should fix things for those affected. Really pleased at the quick response, I loved my First Light playthrough even with the black crush (I played with my TV settings to improve the issue, but it didn't completely fix it) so a complete fix would probably prompt me to replay it (and Second Son) again as the improved frame rate is such a big improvement for the game for me.

I found this out by chance yesterday, but the black crush may be dependent on the PS4, the display, and TV settings. Discretion: if a display isn't calibrated to Rec. 709, then the picture won't be the same reference. More so if image processing is enabled like Dynamic Contrast to jack up the brightness of the picture. A few other settings of mine for reference are Warm2, Gamma 2.2, Black Level: High, and all image processing off like Dynamic Contrast. With all that said, I found:

If I have HDR enabled on an OG PS4, I'll get black crush. If I disable it, I don't get crushed blacks.

If I have HDR enabled on a PS4 Pro, I don't get crushed blacks. But if disable HDR, I get black crush.

I tested two areas specifically. The rooftop near the space needle (?) where you can see a billboard ad with Squatch Java, and the rooftop diagonally across the Squatch Java billboard, which is directly across from the Maki: love & sushi restaurant. I think this is the black crush some people are referring to.

Anybody noticed the same thing or is it just me and I'm mistaking these areas of black crush for something else or I wrongly calibrated my LG OLED55C6P?

 

[BradleyLove]

That happened to me as well. You should try Paragon, I had the same problem there.

I exchanged the controller due to the fault, and instead of Fetch running down on her own, she'd run to the right. So I said F it, I'll keep it as it is since most games don't register the input.

Dead zone sensitivity is very low on Infamous I guess.

Hmmm, I see. I never had this problem on my OG PS4. I'll try with my OG DS4 and report back.

 

[airjoca]

I found this out by chance yesterday, but the black crush may be dependent on the PS4, the display, and TV settings. Discretion: if a display isn't calibrated to Rec. 709, then the picture won't be the same reference. More so if image processing is enabled like Dynamic Contrast to jack up the brightness of the picture. A few other settings of mine for reference are Warm2, Gamma 2.2, Black Level: High, and all image processing off like Dynamic Contrast. With all that said, I found:

If I have HDR enabled on an OG PS4, I'll get black crush. If I disable it, I don't get crushed blacks.

If I have HDR enabled on a PS4 Pro, I don't get crushed blacks. But if disable HDR, I get black crush.

I tested two areas specifically. The rooftop near the space needle (?) where you can see a billboard ad with Squatch Java, and the rooftop diagonally across the Squatch Java billboard, which is directly across from the Maki: love & sushi restaurant. I think this is the black crush some people are referring to.

Anybody noticed the same thing or is it just me and I'm mistaking these areas of black crush for something else or I wrongly calibrated my LG OLED55C6P?

I noticed something on my end when going from OG to Pro: to avoid black crush I had black level set to high on my E6 when playing on OG PS4, but when I changed to the Pro, I felt something was off, and I had to set black level to low to get the equivalent picture I had on the OG. Weird.

 

[airjoca]

Hmmm, I see. I never had this problem on my OG PS4. I'll try with my OG DS4 and report back.

I tried with my OG DS4 and everything was fine.

 

[BradleyLove]

I tried with my OG DS4 and everything was fine.

Same here. OG DS4 is fine.

Think I'll take the pad back to the store and get a swap to rule out a faulty pad.

 

[Evolved1]

So I'm waiting to (re)play these games for quite a while now, hoping for the fix for the crush (it's really bad) but... we're still waiting apparently?

 

[BradleyLove]

Same here. OG DS4 is fine.

Think I'll take the pad back to the store and get a swap to rule out a faulty pad.

Got a replacement pad and it's fine. So not a problem with Infamous on the Pro. Phew.

 

[Shai-Tan]

So I'm waiting to (re)play these games for quite a while now, hoping for the fix for the crush (it's really bad) but... we're still waiting apparently?

oh, I guess that explains the horrible black crush I was getting on every setting? I fiddled with it for like an hour and it seems like it obliterates detail.