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Infamous Second Son 1.05 patch now available.
- Thread starter CyberChulo
- Start date
Fnord
Member
Glad to hear that the 850c makes a noticeable difference. I've been biding my time for some hdr gaming content.
FarFromAnyGame
Banned
I got the KS8000, the same problem. HDR content look dim and washed out.
Can someone share their HDR Settings for KS8000? I have rtings.com settings btw.
Try AVS HD 709 if you want proper black and white levels.
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-display-calibration/948496-avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration.html
Robot Pants
Member
I have the 850c and when you are using the rec.709 color space and then using expert 1 to do the 10 point adjustment (I assume you are using a rtings.com calibration guide?) the picture can be calibrated to look correct. However if you are using HDR you'll want the color space to be BT.2020 and you'll want to stray away from Expert 1. Moving my color temperature to neutral and the color space to BT.2020 made a huge difference. From my understand you can't calibrate the BT.2020 color space as it has way too many colors. So using the expert 1 temperature which is calibrated for the rec.709 color space and NOT BT.2020 space is gonna look funny.
....what?
If you have a colorimeter and calibration software, you can calibrate at 50% or 75% saturation since no HDTV is within 100% of BT. 2020 yet.
The people complaining I hadn't tried by-passing the receiver are ignoring the fact the screenshots I posted come straight out of the PS4.
Nonetheless I've now tested directly connecting to the TV and the results are identical. My receiver handles HDR just fine.
Having tested further now the only way I've managed to get anywhere near a decent brightness is by maxing out Dynamic Contrast on the TV. If this is how developers are calibrating their games output they need to document it somewhere.
Nonetheless I've now tested directly connecting to the TV and the results are identical. My receiver handles HDR just fine.
Having tested further now the only way I've managed to get anywhere near a decent brightness is by maxing out Dynamic Contrast on the TV. If this is how developers are calibrating their games output they need to document it somewhere.
Nihilistic Monk
Member
I'll try that. I had to reset Deus Ex back to normal to get that looking ok.
At nighttime in Infamous, it's so dark as to be unplayable. Daytime seems fine.
Man, HDR should be hype. Instead, it's just a total shitshow. Shit looks dark. Wrong. Washed out. Every game has a different issue.
Also, for all these people that keep chiming in about game mode/HDR mode. For Samsung there is a FAKE HDR setting called HDR+ to make normal content look HDR in a fake way.
This is NOT to be turned on. The TV will flip to HDR (yes, even in game mode) and say "HDR content is playing" for series 7 and onwards.
Futurevoid
Member
Literally posted on the last page.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=222629887&postcount=224
Deus Ex for me on the KS8000 looks fantastic using the settings I posted above (PS4 Full, HDMI Black Level Normal)
Along with that, set the in-game brightness to 45. The loading pictures of characters will be oversaturated as hell but that's an issue with the game. The HDR implementation in Deus Ex isn't mind blowing but its a nice improvement over the standard game, IMO. Especially during the night time sequences in the hub.
This is a stupid question, but is your display calibrated? Doesn't sound like it if you're enabling Black Level Enhancer or Dynamic Contrast for example.
.
If you have a brightness issue, you need to balance your brightness, contrast, and backlight settings appropriately. And if it already is calibrated properly, then it's a limitation of your TV cd/m2.
Ooooo, I've got a B6 and can't wait to try this out. What r your settings?
Also, how bad is the lag?
Nihilistic Monk
Member
Literally posted on the last page.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=222629887&postcount=224
Deus Ex for me on the KS8000 looks fantastic using the settings I posted above (PS4 Full, HDMI Black Level Normal)
Along with that, set the in-game brightness to 45. The loading pictures of characters will be oversaturated as hell but that's an issue with the game. The HDR implementation in Deus Ex isn't mind blowing but its a nice improvement over the standard game, IMO. Especially during the night time sequences in the hub.
I just set my TV to the same settings as you. it looks better, but it's still ridiculously dark at night in Infamous.
The in game brightness set to full kinda sorts it out. it's bright enough then. Especially with dynamic contrast enabled.
I don't think Infamous HDR implementation is all that. Think a lot will depend o the games.
Hoping that PS Pro does some magic sauce with the outputs or a test thing that makes this all easier, but knowing Sony I'm 99.9% sure it freakin' won't.
...my TV is fine. You actually can't raise the brightness on an LG OLED by more than 1-3 points without losing the black level.
Again - look at the PS4 in-game screenshots I posted. this isn't a TV issue, all the TV can do is compensate for what the game is rendering.
The people who are saying this looks fine are most likely using their default TV settings which have Dynamic Contrast on.
I agree with this.
AGRacing
Member
I used HDR+ mode with the motion effects turned off. I've noticed the Playstation adjusts for the Warm2 color (you can see this in the Playstation home menu when HDR kicks in) so I leave that on. You could simply copy the contrast , black level and color in the game mode as well if that makes you feel better.
Note : You may need to update the software of the TV to see the HDR+ function in the menu. It wasn't there when the TV launched.
AGRacing
Member
I think it's important to note that HDR presets on TV's are usually designed for movies. For those saying the picture is too dark, I believe your room may be too bright. These settings are usually for watching a film in a darker room - and the detail in the dark spots are definitely there on my KS8000 while gaming, but hard to make out if I try to play during the day with lights on. Might want to play with brightness in those situations.
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
Last Light patch is live?
Futurevoid
Member
First Light and Second Son are both out, yes.
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
Did anyone post the patch notes of Last Light?
I don't expect to see the increased particle effects seen in PS Meeting on PS4. The only way to verify is to check on PS4 PRO obviously.
On PS4:
RGB range full
HDR automatic
Deep color output automatic
On the TV:
On general settings, turn hdmi ultra HD deep colour on for the hdmi port the PS4 is using
I'm using HDR bright, dynamic contrast- low, color gamut - wide, Black level - high.
Think those are all the important settings.
So it's not calibrated then? You never answered the question.
Also, I'm not just talking about your brightness setting or black level setting. I'm talking about your luminance levels which is why I specifically asked about brightness, contrast, backlight, and cd/m2 or nits as a possible limitation on your display.
GinoFelino
Member
And people downplay the importance of dynamic metadata HDR.... this just goes to show how essential it really is for HDR to succeed.
ronaldthump
Member
curious this. I didn't really even want a HDR tv and now I sorta want one to see how the visuals look. :/
And this is how it starts no?
And this is how it starts no?
Steve McQueen
Member
Dynamic metadata is expected with HDMI 2.1 right? Gonna wait I think. Seems I'm gonna regret buying a tv now. Sony should come up with a cheap and great game tv themselves,just like they did with this
( although is was quite expensive at launch )
Robot Pants
Member
Just wanted to pop in and say that First Light might look even better than Second Son. It might be because of only having neon powers
It's calibrated in SDR - there's no 100% agreed upon solution for calibrating HDR yet and I'm willing to use whatever settings make this work for Infamous SS in HDR mode so that question is irrelevant. I have the brightest (nits/cd/m2) HDR capable OLED TV you can get so if they've failed to calibrate the game for this TV the problem is them or the TV manufacturer's tonemapper. We're still so early in this HDR process I'm more than willing to throw LG under the bus for their HDR implementation in general (especially with things like this alleged HDR firmware update happening) - however what I'm talking about is just the game itself at this point as the issue is clearly visible in regular PS4 SDR tonemapped screenshots.
I was in a pitch black room testing at midnight last night. That said, I'm sure gamers would like to be able to play HDR games during the day too
Not that it should matter but just an fyi McSpidey has been working in the film/television/editing/compositing/3D space for close to 20 years now with experience in supporting folks like large effects houses and game devs, he knows how to not crush blacks and calibrate a display.
(He's also my brother and taught me everything I know about this side of technology before I became a game developer)
(He's also my brother and taught me everything I know about this side of technology before I became a game developer)
Infamous 2nd Son and First Light look perfect over here, even at night.
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
HDMI 2.1 and HDR with Dynamic Metadata may debut by just a firmware upgrade (or not).
Bog
Junior Ace
Probably not EXACTLY the right place for it, but how you liking that TV? I saw the B series just got a price drop, and I'm intrigued.
This is my experience too, the game exposure favours bright objects, like the sky. Adding brighter HDR just exacerbates this underlying problem.
Having tested much further I'm of the belief they've designed their HDR output mode to look similar to SDR's black level when using Dynamic Contrast on Max in HDR and off in SDR ...on LG E6 OLED at least.
My vote remains, game developers need to give more brightness controls over both black and white points. Infamous is the worst so far in regards to available in game HDR brightness calibration settings.
Exteromate
Member
Is there suppose a settings option in game (first light) to turn on HDR such of that of TLOU? Or is it automatic because my Vizio P is not recognizing HDR.
Shin-Ra
Junior Member
There's a Video - HDR Rendering setting right at the bottom of the options menu, but it enabled automatically at game boot for me.
Unknown?
Member
I have color space set to auto shouldn't it default to BT.2020? Also every elitist opinion I've ever heard has said to set color space to warm for a more natural look is this different for HDR? Even that review site said expert 1 was preferred but I guess it's all down to opinion?
It's already been decided that BT. 2020 and SMPTE 2084 are what is being aimed for. Even CalMAN already allows for HDR10 calibration at 50% and 75% saturation sweeps since no TV currently in the market can hit the theoretical 100% needed colorspace for BT. 2020 right now. The problem with just enabling HDR is that if you just enable it, you don't know how it affects your grayscale ramp until you track it yourself especially when UHD 2016 model TVs can barely do 75% of BT. 2020 like the Samsung KS8000 and Sony X800D, so you'll see apparent color clipping when measured if you're calibrating to 100% of BT. 2020. It could have results like crushed blacks in your case or be clipping black and white levels, but you won't know for sure until you measure it. There isn't even a cheap consumer calibration disc for UHD yet like Disney WOW: World of Wonder or the Spears and Munsil HD Benchmark and Calibration disc was for Blu-ray.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymDJtQ6JhPM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUAV41iFCIM
Some things are just intentionally dark like the Neutral Lighting setting for The Division most notably. It's beautiful and even lifelike, but it makes playing competitively in the Dark Zone a challenge sometimes because it can be really hard to see at night. It actually looks similar to what I'm seeing in First Light. Are you using an HDMI 2.0a cable for HDR and ruled that out yet?
Robot Pants
Member
I think so. My set tends to be more on the red side. So warm is too much. I also change my Hue to G2. Neutral looks better to me on my set so I go with that.
Now if you want a perfectly calibrated set for the 709 color space, then yea expert 1 is the way to go.
Exteromate
Member
Thanks, I just needed to restart the game. Lol
Kabuki Waq
Member
I just bought a ks8000 going by this thread it looks like it may have been a gen too early
Thanks, I'm aware of the state of HDR calibration and standards, including LG initially incorrectly calibrating their output to DCI P3 instead of 2020 then fixing it...and even the initial confusion about what the colour gamut setting does on LG OLED in HDR mode when receiving a BT2020 signal. I'm not talking about any of that though and as per my reiterated point re in-game screenshots it's not even part of the equation.
As per my continued point, followup points and other's posts, and even your final "Some things are just intentionally dark" comment - I agree and my point remains - the game is simply too dark and developers need to do better in terms of in game brightness settings, especially when it comes to HDR. I can't think of anything additional at this stage that would add value to this conversation so will leave until something changes.
Sure. Then it sounds like you're using the default settings and never bothered to calibrate your TV given your previous comment.
BigSoftieFF
Member
Nah, it'll be fine.I just bought a ks8000 going by this thread it looks like it may have been a gen too early
Since you refuse to let this go despite my assurances it's not relevant my statement on HDR calibration is that, from experience, I don't believe it's possible to properly 100% calibrate an LG OLED for HDR material to any standard at this time due to a combination of poorly implemented and standardised TV tonemappers, poorly mastered HDR metadata in both UHD disks/games (with games tending to be much more reliable on the whole) and a lack of necessary controls in the TV itself that don't cause significant undesired artefacts. The floors of this issue are still shifting, everyone is doing the best they can and mistakes are being made, and then attempts to compensate for these mistakes are making things worse. Eventually it will be sorted out, this discussion and my comments are part of that "working out" process - that's the only reason I'm participating in them, so everyone will have an easier plug and play experience in the future.
With all that said, no combination of settings on either the console OS, in-game brightness settings, or TV controls (even beyond black level) have any impact on my stance or the underlying issue of the game being too dark.
Karak
Member
I just bought a ks8000 going by this thread it looks like it may have been a gen too early
Well the 8000 is already a gen to early lol. Regardless of this. But this one works good for HDR. Better than the Last of Us for sure.
Yep. Dude even the reps I work with have bunkered down for a LONG road and say its early and they rep the demos lol. Even when I am consulting with devs this comes out. Your on the mark according to the folks actually doing this as of ...well about 4 hours ago when last I spoke to some of them lol
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