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[Pinko Marx]

No, no, no. That's not what I'm saying. Clementine is a Black person! Her race is Black. Her parents are Black. But even though her parents probably identify as Black people, they're not 100% Sub-Saharan African. Because rape of Black women was so common in the 18th and 19th centuries, most Black people are at least partially European. Some have a lot more European ancestry than others. This is why you have Idris Elba and you have Beyonce. Both of those people are still Black. Their race is Black. But Beyonce has some really old European ancestry, while Idris Elba probably does not. It's possible that somebody like Clementine's mother might be more European than SSA. But she's still Black.

Let's say that Clementine's father is 75% SSA and 25% European. Clementine's mother is 25% SSA and 75% European. This makes Clementine 50% SSA and 50% European. She's still a Black person, of course. But she's a Black person who happens to be about an equal mix of SSA and European. Race and ethnicity aren't the same thing at all. Race is a cultural concept, and all based on personal identity and societal rules.

Neither of Clementines parents are white. It's possible none of her grandparents are white. She is a Black person, but happens to have more European ancestry than most Black people.

Dude what the fuck.

 

[Valhelm]

You are basically saying black people can't have light skin unless they have a majority white dna. Do you know how ridiculous you sound. Look up the pictures of charles barkley and snoop dog and tell me based on their skin tone who has more sub-saharan dna. I GUARANTEE you would be wrong. Charles barkley according to dna is blacker than snoop dogg. DNA is not as simple as you are making it out to be.

Oh yeah, of course! The expression of traits and the presence of traits are not the same thing. But by and large, light skinned Black people are light skinned because of distant European ancestry. A sample of African Americans will be more light-skinned, on average, than a sample of West African people.

Your original statement was that her mother is probably 50% European, which is blatantly false. Most black people in the US have European ancestry due to slavery, regardless of how dark they are - you're right on that point. But the majority of black Americans are not more than 50% European, or even 40%.

My great great great grandfather was Cherokee Native American, and I also have white ancestors. However I don't looked mixed, whereas one of my brothers is light skinned.

When I said her mother might be 50% European, I didn't mean that one of her parents may have been white. But because of centuries of admixture (mostly rape), her mother has a significant amount of European heritage that she passed on to her daughter. They're both still Black. Race and ethnicity are not the same thing.

 

[Figboy79]

I totally missed that picture of her parents, but I always assumed she was Asian and something. The art style gives her a bit of an Asian look. But looking at some of the other screenshots of her, I can't believe I didn't realize she was just a light skinned black girl. Shame on me!

Her being black is pretty awesome, and it also makes it a bit more understandable (and sad) that she would latch on to Lee as quickly as she did, because he reminds her of her dad. It's really sweet, but heartbreaking as well.

 

[akidnamededdy]

I'm learning so much tonight.

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

People with access to the internet and tv haven't seen light skinned black people? Sad thing is, I can see that being true.

In the next episode Clementine needs to find one of the DNA ancestry kits, and put an end to this discussion

*clicks dna tests*
*Clementine reads dna test*
*Agitated, Clementine slowly looks up at the group*

"Still...not...Asian"

 

[LEGGZZZZ]

My friend's official stance is that he has never seen a black person with this skin tone.

By his admission, that is the skin tone exclusively of an Asian person.



And Clementine's skin tone. Asian only.

HAHAHAHA. This thread is amazing, apparently my older sister is Asian, despite the fact that I'm completely black and we have the same parents.

 

[Infinite]

Having read all 11 pages of this thread so I take it the question hasn't been answered. She's black

 

[NoPiece]

Your original statement was that her mother is probably 50% European, which is blatantly false. Most black people in the US have European ancestry due to slavery, regardless of how dark they are - you're right on that point. But the majority of black Americans are not more than 50% European, or even 40%.

from theroot.com, written by Henry Louis Gates, Jr

Exactly How "Black" Are Black Americans?

* According to Ancestry.com, the average African American is 65 percent sub-Saharan African, 29 percent European and 2 percent Native American.

* According to 23andme.com, the average African American is 75 percent sub-Saharan African, 22 percent European and only 0.6 percent Native American.

* According to Family Tree DNA.com, the average African American is 72.95 percent sub-Saharan African, 22.83 percent European and 1.7 percent Native American.

* According to National Geographic's Genographic Project, the average African American is 80 percent sub-Saharan African, 19 percent European and 1 percent Native American.

* According to AfricanDNA, in which I am a partner with Family Tree DNA, the average African American is 79 percent sub-Saharan African, 19 percent European and 2 percent Native American.

And for our African-American male guests, there has been still another astonishing fact revealed about their paternal ancestry -- their father's father's father's line -- through their y-DNA: A whopping 35 percent of all African-American men descend from a white male ancestor who fathered a mulatto child sometime in the slavery era, most probably from rape or coerced sexuality. In other words, if we tested the DNA of all of the black men in the NBA, for instance, just over one-third descend from a white second or third great-grandfather. In my own case, he was my great-great grandfather, and he was most probably of Irish descent, judging from our shared y-DNA haplogroup.

 

[Spazznid]

Wait, she was the Redhead, right?

 

[PhoenixDark]

from theroot.com, written by Henry Louis Gates, Jr

IE not even close to half white. So hopefully we can throw that nonsense out and discuss things based on reality.

 

[KibblesBits]

Wait, she was the Redhead, right?

No?

Red hair is NOT exclusive to Whites.

 

[Valhelm]

from theroot.com, written by Henry Louis Gates, Jr

Exactly How "Black" Are Black Americans?

* According to Ancestry.com, the average African American is 65 percent sub-Saharan African, 29 percent European and 2 percent Native American.

* According to 23andme.com, the average African American is 75 percent sub-Saharan African, 22 percent European and only 0.6 percent Native American.

* According to Family Tree DNA.com, the average African American is 72.95 percent sub-Saharan African, 22.83 percent European and 1.7 percent Native American.

* According to National Geographic's Genographic Project, the average African American is 80 percent sub-Saharan African, 19 percent European and 1 percent Native American.

* According to AfricanDNA, in which I am a partner with Family Tree DNA, the average African American is 79 percent sub-Saharan African, 19 percent European and 2 percent Native American.

And for our African-American male guests, there has been still another astonishing fact revealed about their paternal ancestry -- their father's father's father's line -- through their y-DNA: A whopping 35 percent of all African-American men descend from a white male ancestor who fathered a mulatto child sometime in the slavery era, most probably from rape or coerced sexuality. In other words, if we tested the DNA of all of the black men in the NBA, for instance, just over one-third descend from a white second or third great-grandfather. In my own case, he was my great-great grandfather, and he was most probably of Irish descent, judging from our shared y-DNA haplogroup.

This is what I'm saying. Neither of Clementine's parents are white. I doubt any of her grandparents are white. But it looks like a lot of her great-great-grandfathers or great-great-great grandfathers may have been white.

 

[Guerilla]

The correct answer is who gives a shit. We're all humans, stop making everything about race ffs. I didn't give a shit when I played the game I still don't now.

 

[Pinko Marx]

The correct answer is who gives a shit. We're all humans, stop making everything about race ffs. I didn't give a shit when I played the game I still don't now.

Its easy to be like "I don't see color, we're all people on the inside." But its really really not that simple.
Also its an interesting topic of discussion.

 

[akidnamededdy]

Petition to have thread title changed to "Is Clementine from The Walking Dead...b-b-b-black?"

 

[charsace]

This is what I'm saying. Neither of Clementine's parents are white. I doubt any of her grandparents are white. But it looks like a lot of her great-great-grandfathers or great-great-great grandfathers may have been white.

The lengths some of you are going to...

You can find black people in Africa that look like her.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Since I've never experienced it not being from the US:

Is Black History Month actually historical and serious or is it mostly led by afrocentrists that believe in stuff like Black Athena and black people having ancient kingdoms up to India?

This thread summed up in one letter.

 

[gogosox8]

I always thought she was biracial(black and white). If she was white, I doubt people would think she's Lee daughter. Could also be black and Asian because of her light skin.

 

[stonesak]

Oh man, this thread is bringing back all sorts of memories.

 

[ISOM]

This is what I'm saying. Neither of Clementine's parents are white. I doubt any of her grandparents are white. But it looks like a lot of her great-great-grandfathers or great-great-great grandfathers may have been white.

I don't even know why you are caring so much to try and diagram her racial history. It doesn't matter. She has a black family and is black.

 

[Zen]

She's blasian. Her mother looked blasian so she could have been a mix of White/Black/Asian, much like Clementine.

I always thought she was biracial(black and white). If she was white, I doubt people would think she's Lee daughter. Could also be black and Asian because of her light skin.

If anything she's a hypothetical mix of black white and potentially Asian. Her mother looks like she could have been ether part white or Asian. Clementine is also one of the few characters in the game with eyes that conform more towards Asian shapes. So given that and the ambiguous appearance of her mother, I'm inclined to say she's of the Alex Vance variety if not as evenly split.

 

[gogojira]

Yes.

 

[MWS Natural]

Not sure why you guys are saying this. I'm Black and I hadn't the slightest clue she was supposed to be. Hell, I'm still having difficulty seeing it. And I am well ensconced in my nubianness. Best friend is black *hey-oooooo*. My girl is black. Portraits of black jesus adorn my bedroom. Just watched best man Holiday last weekend. I have failed you, apparently. And to the people saying it shouldn't matter, it doesn't change my perspective on the game. It's just really, really freaking cool. Not every day you see strongly developed Black female characters in games. Only ones that come to mind are AC Liberation, carmelita fox and the koopa girl.

That's ok bra, there is always one.

 

[PhoenixDark]

This is what I'm saying. Neither of Clementine's parents are white. I doubt any of her grandparents are white. But it looks like a lot of her great-great-grandfathers or great-great-great grandfathers may have been white.

Thus she is likely 20-30% white at the most. Just because someone is light skinned does not mean they're half white. It's not how genetics work. There's a lot of variety in this stuff.

I know plenty of black chicks who look like Clementine.

 

[Retro_]

Not every day you see strongly developed Black female characters in games. Only ones that come to mind are AC Liberation, carmelita fox and the koopa girl.

I can't

 

[striferser]

She's black,

Though to be honest i don't really care about her race.

 

[FourMyle]

Since I've never experienced it not being from the US:

Is Black History Month actually historical and serious or is it mostly led by afrocentrists that believe in stuff like Black Athena and black people having ancient kingdoms up to India?

Why would you even assume the latter when you are so obviously ignorant about the subject?

 

[Dark Octave]

My friend's official stance is that he has never seen a black person with this skin tone.

By his admission, that is the skin tone exclusively of an Asian person.



And Clementine's skin tone. Asian only.

Holy shit I'm Asian!

 

[Kimaka]

This is what I'm saying. Neither of Clementine's parents are white. I doubt any of her grandparents are white. But it looks like a lot of her great-great-grandfathers or great-great-great grandfathers may have been white.

That's not something you can determine based off of skin color. You can't say that X has more European ancestry than Y because they are light skin. Black people have a wide variety of skin tones even within the same family.

 

[Black-Wind]

Hmmmm. If she's Black, fine. Whatever. But I don't think it's "ignorant" that people didn't realize it. Even with all the so-called context clues. Certainly doesn't look like any of the Black people I know.

1- She is black. That's a factual statement. The game- game characters shows this and the game creators made it clear.

2- Well I'm black ... grew up in Chicago (famous for our population ... as well as some shitty things). Trust me when I say that "black" is a rainbow.

It's interesting ... I make jokes about having "Black-dar" to my friends but it's strange seeing just how differently I see "black people" compared to other people. I have grown up around tons of Clementines ... slanted eyes are by far not a Asian exclusive feature. Native Americans/ Inuits/ Hawaiians and yeah, certain African ethnic groups along with parts of Europe also have this feature. Sooo she can have her canon black parents and we can leave it at that IMO cause the range of "black" runs far deeper than SLJ.

 

[breakfuss]

I certainly don't want to be lumped in with people who refuse to accept that she's Black (if there are any), but I take exception to the notion that everyone should have known. That's disingenuous as hell because she can clearly identify as a number of things. Of course people come in all different shades...no one is dumb enough to say otherwise. My confusion wasn't limited to her complexion, though.

 

[R3TRODYCE]

Holy shit I'm Asian!

Lmao, same thing I just said.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

I have a big family, 12 uncles/aunts. My aunt in law also have 11 siblings. I saw a lot of her family and they are bright skinned and some a bit brown. Some of my aunts and uncles are bright. One was very spoiled and probably didn't stay outside a lot. My uncle which is average hollywood brown (black guy) mentions how his skin is bright under his shirt and his legs (tan line areas. Live in Mississippi). He picked cotton, but not as a slave lol, and other outdoor stuff so the sun must have beat him up often.

This is a picture taken at his house, my family members., lot of different shades. The aunt in law isn't in this but she looks white, but her mother and father are not white, they are black (brown, light don't even look mixed). Maybe she too never went out in the sun much. Also I'm not saying that the sun is what make black people brown but it we can get darker from it like everyone else.

 

[StoopKid]

Holy shit I'm Asian!

Lol the only thing I can think of now is tiger woods in the racial draft episode.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Yeah, her features and relatively light skin tone is what lead me to believe she was asian and black. I even thought her mom looked asian or at least part asian in that portrait. Honestly, I never really put much thought into it and just insinuated that. She still looks bi-racial to me, but whatever. I liked her as a character.

 

[Guerilla]

Its easy to be like "I don't see color, we're all people on the inside." But its really really not that simple.
Also its an interesting topic of discussion.

The game wasn't about race and I only bother about it when the creator wants to make a statement, otherwise I don't waste my time thinking who is what which imo is the right approach. And if by interesting you mean depressing I'll agree.

 

[Mr.Squirrel]

Making a character have features and characteristics of one race then having other stuff say she's another is confusing, even for people not ignorant of racial matters. The fact that so many other people in this thread had the same thought proves that her design is at odds with the writing.

Also, I always assumed people thought she was his daughter because it was a full grown man walking around with a little girl. It's a reasonable assumption.

It's not just Asian people who have eyes like that you know. Here's a young Nelson Mandela

 

[franknbeans]

Not sure why you guys are saying this. I'm Black and I hadn't the slightest clue she was supposed to be. Hell, I'm still having difficulty seeing it. And I am well ensconced in my nubianness. Best friend is black *hey-oooooo*. My girl is black. Portraits of black jesus adorn my bedroom. Just watched best man Holiday last weekend. I have failed you, apparently. And to the people saying it shouldn't matter, it doesn't change my perspective on the game. It's just really, really freaking cool. Not every day you see strongly developed Black female characters in games. Only ones that come to mind are AC Liberation, carmelita fox and the koopa girl.

Carmelita looks Italian to me. Maybe Sicilian....

 

[Angelus Errare]

I find it amazing that in this thread white people are allowed to be genetically diverse to the point where Beyonce is mistaken for one, but for some reason black people are not allowed to be genetically diversed and if you're even "brown" you're probably mixed. If you're light skin then it's obvious one of your parents is white and that's all there is to it. I hesitate to post a picture of my sister (who isn't half asian or half white). Because some of you might have an stroke when you see how light she is.

Also they're not called "Slanted eyes" or "asian eyes" jesus christ, some of the words you cats are typing is just....wow. They're called epicanthic folds and black people more so than many other ethnic groups get them because blacks are very diverse genetically. Our females routinely get them or alternatively the almond eye shape (which is born from bridge not fully developing, but developing more than in Asians).

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Not sure why you guys are saying this. I'm Black and I hadn't the slightest clue she was supposed to be. Hell, I'm still having difficulty seeing it. And I am well ensconced in my nubianness. Best friend is black *hey-oooooo*. My girl is black. Portraits of black jesus adorn my bedroom. Just watched best man Holiday last weekend. I have failed you, apparently. And to the people saying it shouldn't matter, it doesn't change my perspective on the game. It's just really, really freaking cool. Not every day you see strongly developed Black female characters in games. Only ones that come to mind are AC Liberation, carmelita fox and the koopa girl.

Nilin from Remember Me was black. I think she was a pretty good character. Her Mom was black and father was white and I didn't know Nilin was mixed when I first saw her until I met her parents.

 

[Phaethon0017]

Cannot believe this thread.

 

[akidnamededdy]

I find it amazing that in this thread white people are allowed to be genetically diverse to the point where Beyonce is mistaken for one, but for some reason black people are not allowed to be genetically diversed and if you're even "brown" you're probably mixed. If you're light skin then it's obvious one of your parents is white and that's all there is to it. I hesitate to post a picture of my sister (who isn't half asian or half white). Because some of you might have an stroke when you see how light she is.

Surely that isn't the only reason you hesitate to post a picture of your sister on the internet.

 

[Figboy79]

I feel incredibly silly, because my oldest niece, who is black (and italian), also has somewhat "asian" features (eyes, mostly), but she's clearly black and not asian.

My younger niece (sister to above pic), also has very "asian" eyes as well, as does her twin brother. When they were in Japan, many people wondered if they were mixed.

How I didn't realize Clementine was black is now a source of shame...

 

[SystemBug]

omg this thread!!!

 

[Popparoks]

why is this a thread

 

[GraveHorizon]

"You're mistaken, there are not black people that have the skin tone of Asian people. Her skin is an Asian skin tone, identical to Glen's."

My friend in response to my affirmation of having seen and met black people with skin of that shade. He also claims I'm mistaken in said knowledge in the same way that he was mistaken in thinking he saw a ghost as a child. Which would mean...

I feel incredibly silly, because my oldest niece, who is black (and italian), also has somewhat "asian" features (eyes, mostly), but she's clearly black and not asian.

...this picture can't be real.

 

[lordchompy]

Thus she is likely 20-30% white at the most. Just because someone is light skinned does not mean they're half white. It's not how genetics work. There's a lot of variety in this stuff.

I know plenty of black chicks who look like Clementine.

I know plenty white chicks that look like Clementine; what does that prove?

For folks who who straddle the lines of race and ethnicity in terms of appearance or family background, "race" is often times a crapshoot that is determined by a person's environment. In regards to Clementine, this means absolutely nothing. Correct me if I am wrong, but clementine doesn't mention race at all throughout the adventure. So aside from Lee being a strong black lead who protects her, we don't know how she feels about it one way or another.

You also cannot just assign a percentage to how much "whiteness" or "blackness" Clementine has because aside from a photo, little is known about her parents. Being on the topic of which, the parents in the photo do not look very much like Clementine in my opinion, which almost renders the whole thing moot.

The bottom line is that Clem is of a mulatto background, whether it's from her parents or previous ancestors, and arguing beyond that doesn't serve her, the story, or us, for that matter, so why bother?

If she's black to me, asian to you, and white to someone else, what's wrong with that? She's the little girl who survived to all of us, and that's the most important thing.

 

[breakfuss]

1- She is black. That's a factual statement. The game- game characters shows this and the game creators made it clear.

2- Well I'm black ... grew up in Chicago (famous for our population ... as well as some shitty things). Trust me when I say that "black" is a rainbow.

It's interesting ... I make jokes about having "Black-dar" to my friends but it's strange seeing just how differently I see "black people" compared to other people. I have grown up around tons of Clementines ... slanted eyes are by far not a Asian exclusive feature. Native Americans/ Inuits/ Hawaiians and yeah, certain African ethnic groups along with parts of Europe also have this feature. Sooo she can have her canon black parents and we can leave it at that IMO cause the range of "black" runs far deeper than SLJ.

Dude, I totally get that. Haha. All I'm saying is that viewed through the lens of WD's art style it's easily understandable why people are confused. She just didn't strike me as a little Black girl. And it's not simply because she's light skindeded. Like, come on. That's insulting as hell. Next thing you know someone's going to try convince me Lena Horne is Black.

 

[Figboy79]

"You're mistaken, there are not black people that have the skin tone of Asian people. Her skin is an Asian skin tone, identical to Glen's."

My friend in response to my affirmation of having seen and met black people with skin of that shade. He also claims I'm mistaken in said knowledge in the same way that he was mistaken in thinking he saw a ghost as a child. Which would mean...



...this picture can't be real.

Lol. Time to call up "My Ghost Story," and give them these pictures! My story has to be told!

 

[Roto13]

Wait, whose niece is a ghost??