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Is it safe to assume that Nintendo's next console will be more powerful than Xbox one X?
- Thread starter too much eslim
- Start date
Stefan.North
Member
I wouldn't bet on it. Maybe a tad more powerful than base PS4
Afro Republican
Banned
No, at best it will be near equal. Even that's unlikely.
Oh you mean that extension that's not a new consoles that came out around 4 years after launch and you're post doesn't make anysense because the comparison is nonsense?
Oh you mean that extension that's not a new consoles that came out around 4 years after launch and you're post doesn't make anysense because the comparison is nonsense?
Doomsday
Neo Member
Most of their games are 1080p/60 so I don't know what you're getting at.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
My point is having more power doesn’t make console better, PS2 was they weakest system compare to both GameCube and Xbox but it still was considered best console because of it games. Same thing DS against PSP and again 3DS against PSVita.
To power doesn’t meant shit to me, Xbox series X can end up being most powerful console in next gen that basically useless if doesn’t have the game I care about.
Dory16
Banned
You forgot overpriced games with the majority of them being remasters from previous generations.
Afro Republican
Banned
PS2 also had a year headstart and had more retailer access due to the PSX which MS had to pay for directly.
And the PSP was ahead initially but fell behind due to price and piracy.
And the Vita had multiple problems.
This is a fake argument, Power does matter, Power is what Sony used to try and say the PS2 was among the best and it fooled many people despite the GameCube being stronger until later on, only the Xbox was obviously more powerful (to the average consumer) from the start.
Power does matter, there's a difference between power being an advantage and being THE most powerful being the ONLY reason to buy something and that's where you people keep getting mixed up on.
The PS3 was "more powerful" but it was hard to get that power unless the game was scripted and linear. The 360 was powerful enough to control the narrative for years despite technically being weaker. If the 360 had the graphics of the Wii that would have destroyed it and it would have been DOA. The Wii Itself basically has to leave the industry and it wasn't considered an actual contender, even Nintendo stated that.
But that market is gone, that's why the Wii U failed, so yes Nintendo will be getting further and further behind on their current trajectory and that will turn people off.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
For me it never did, I decide what system to get based solely on what games they have and will have in the future. Games is what selling both PS4 and Switch.
OutrageousFacts
Banned
So you made this thread to shit on Nintendo? Cool.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Because a lot of people don't know how to do it and it's not exactly an easy process. Hell, Im trying to figure it out.
ShadowWolf712
Member
Nintendo really seems to have found their golden goose in portable gaming. Unless and until they can manage to make a docked tablet with the power of the One X in it, I don't think Nintendo's going to give up the very specific desire it currently fulfills.
I'd say in a year or so though you may see them start to look into a Switch "Pro" or a straight 2.0 release that runs at least as strong as a PS4 or even a Pro, but how quickly they can do that will depend on how far mobile tech has evolved since them.
I'd say in a year or so though you may see them start to look into a Switch "Pro" or a straight 2.0 release that runs at least as strong as a PS4 or even a Pro, but how quickly they can do that will depend on how far mobile tech has evolved since them.
DoctorNefarious
Neo Member
Nintendo bowed out of console arm races after the Gamecube and it is has worked out great for them
Jad-Just_A_Dale
Neo Member
I don't believe it'll be very powerful, but that it will be better balanced and possibly offer some cut down tensor cores, an increased core count and a more efficient gpu that they'll have clock up to the power envelope of the current offering. That will allow for much better looking games, but things like A.I. and Physics will suffer. There are some strengths of the x86 platform that any ARM core from Nintendo will never be able to match. I feel like they should have waited on AMD or launched an AMD based Switch (A10 Micro-6700T) about a year sooner than their Nvidia offering. AMD's Discovery Tablet seems like it was a public, but silent signaling of what Nintendo had planned after they revealed to AMD that they weren't going to use their tech anymore. We could've been looking at a Switch Pro that would be powered by Ryzen & Navi, basically a cut down version of the next gen systems that would be performant enough to satisfy us and similar enough to make ports even easier to manage.
Woo-Fu
Banned
The only numbers Nintendo is interested in are 1st party software sales and review scores. Hardware is just a means to an end. Give it a hook if you can, but don't break the bank doing it(waggle, 3d, pseudo-tablet, handheld/console convertible, etc.)
It's why I chuckle whenever somebody thinks this is the generation where Nintendo will give a shit about 3rd party support. They have their own game in every genre they care about and they want you to buy it, not some 3rd party offering. Pay lip service to 3rd party in interviews and then quietly do nothing to encourage it for the rest of the generation is probably a bullet point on a for-internal-use-only powerpoint presentation.
And hey, it seems to work great for them when it comes to consistent profitability.
It's why I chuckle whenever somebody thinks this is the generation where Nintendo will give a shit about 3rd party support. They have their own game in every genre they care about and they want you to buy it, not some 3rd party offering. Pay lip service to 3rd party in interviews and then quietly do nothing to encourage it for the rest of the generation is probably a bullet point on a for-internal-use-only powerpoint presentation.
And hey, it seems to work great for them when it comes to consistent profitability.
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The 2018 iPad Pro - the most powerful mobile device in history at that point - was allegedly on par with the Xbox One.
Given that Apple is a couple of years ahead of anybody else in mobile power at this point, I'd say that Switch 2 will probably be just a bit beyond the original PS4, but nowhere near PS4 Pro or Xbox One X. However, it won't be hamstrung as badly as the Wii was because it'll have the latest and greatest nVidia architecture, and all the modern engines will run on it pretty easily.
Given that Apple is a couple of years ahead of anybody else in mobile power at this point, I'd say that Switch 2 will probably be just a bit beyond the original PS4, but nowhere near PS4 Pro or Xbox One X. However, it won't be hamstrung as badly as the Wii was because it'll have the latest and greatest nVidia architecture, and all the modern engines will run on it pretty easily.
DetectiveBananas
Member
If Nintendo keeps the Switch separate from a stand alone console, then probably so. Switch takes over the handheld market from the 3DS , and then Nintendo makes a straight up console. But who knows...Probably happy as clams to keep dominating the hand held market 
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Azelover
Titanic was called the Ship of Dreams, and it was. It really was.
I have no idea.
I think it's gonna be a long time from now first of all. And, to them, delivering a secondary innovation is more important. If not literal innovation, then VALUE...it could be, but if that's all you care about, and you don't save room for being surprised. Then you should probably not think about that at all.
I think it's more important to focus on the here and now. When they announce something, that's when we start talking about it. It's pointless to do it now, that will only get you moving in circles. Trying to catch your own tail..
Power, power, power... tired, tired, tired...
I think it's gonna be a long time from now first of all. And, to them, delivering a secondary innovation is more important. If not literal innovation, then VALUE...it could be, but if that's all you care about, and you don't save room for being surprised. Then you should probably not think about that at all.
I think it's more important to focus on the here and now. When they announce something, that's when we start talking about it. It's pointless to do it now, that will only get you moving in circles. Trying to catch your own tail..
Power, power, power... tired, tired, tired...
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too much eslim
Member
How did you come to that conclusion? I was looking at the fact the switch is slightly weaker than the Xbox one.
Soapbox Killer
Grand Nagus
Wii U did that 5 years ago.
As for the question at hand. I expect the Next Switch to be based around a dock the is also an eGpu and with that in mind you could very well get close to an Xbox One X IN DOCKED MODE while retaining the portability factor and providing solid battery life on a 1080p screen. Entirely plausible for Holiday 2022
Grand Theft Scratchy
Banned
Nintendo consoles for the past couple console generations have never been as powerful as what Sony and Microsoft had to offer. So I would expect the Switch 2 to be more powerful than PS4/Xbox One, maybe even matching Xbox One X but not surpassing it. In any case, most people buy Nintendo consoles to play their exclusives where the emphasis is more on gameplay than graphics.
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Codes 208
Member
Tbf you could say that about the other two as well. Im pretty sure ive played more 60fps games on the switch than on xbox or ps4 who have prioritized rez over framerate
ptuck874
Member
Soapbox Killer
Grand Nagus
3-5 Tflops on a Nintendo Console in 2-3 years is absolutely putting up Xbox One X level visuals for damn sure.
Zannegan
Member
I don't think that Gamespot forum post is anything like factual. For instance, iirc, the GPU inside the Switch is theoretically capable of up to 500Gflops (like-for-like, not half precision), but it's not hitting max clocks even when docked, and certainly not in portable mode.
The switch is closer to 25% of the base XBox 1's power. In terms of raw grunt, it's a lot closer to the Wii U, though with a lot more modern features and with NVidia's (at the time) performance per TF advantage. Maybe call it 1/3 of what the XB1 can do to be generous.
Unless they go with an actual console again, you can expect up to a generational leap between hybrids, nothing more. It's not really worth comparing them to the competition to set your expectations (it's certainly fair to compare to determine value for you as a customer). Historically, it just doesn't pan out.
For me, something on par with the PS4 in raw grunt but with more modern features would be really nice for a hybrid. *shrug*
Alternatively, if you want to believe a mix of random rumors, what they *might* do, is create a console-console at about the PS4 Pro's power level (just powerful enough to maybe get downports)called the "Switch 2," while they wait for the portable tech to mature, then put out a hybrid of about the same power docked 2-4 years later.
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Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule
Member
What is the very best performing mobile chip now in December 2019? that is what u should expect for Switch 2 on 2022.
tkscz
Member
That depends on what Nintendo goes with hardware wise and what you consider "as powerful". Most companies with mobile divisions have one focus, mobile phones. Mobile phone GPU technology seems much better than it actually is, as it doesn't HAVE to be that good. Most engines scale down to get games that normally require more power to run on SIGNIFICANTLY less power. So if Nintendo went with anything like a SNAPDRAGON, don't expect it to come close to the OneX on any level.
Then you have Nvidia and AMD. Their mobile efforts tend to be broader than just phones. When Nintendo were working on the Switch, they needed something in a hurry and just chose an off the shelf Tegra, which is something they've NEVER done before (but with the failure of the WiiU and the need for something quick, I can understand). However, the Tegra X1 was already two years old and ran no better than a Geforce 950 if you had to give it something to compare to. However, Nintendo can't repeat this with Nvidia. The Tegra series has stepped away from graphical processing and is focused solely on automation. So going with Nvidia (or AMD) would mean a costume chipset.
With Nvidia, they could do a costume version of the Orin chipset. Now this chipset has not been released, but Tegras tend to double performance over previous models (in this case the Tegra Xavier) while lowering power consumption. If you were to double the FLOPs from Xavier to Orin, you'd get 2.8TFLOPs, which, for most people here, would say that it wouldn't compare to the OneX. However, there is more to hardware than just how fast it can operate floating points (look at the history of AMD and Nvidia Graphic cards as proof of that). The Xavier chipset is the first Tegra to support Tensor cores. These are the chips partly responsible for the RTX series having ray tracing. If the next Switch uses the chipset that comes after Xavier (Orin) then it would mean it would have built in ray tracing, something the OneX doesn't have and cannot do. We also have to take into accounting that by 2020-2021, Nvidia will have die shrunk down to 7nm (for reference, the Switch's chips are at 20nm), allowing for more cores, more performance and less power consumption and less heat. This may allow for FLOPs anywhere from 3.2 to 5TFLOPs. Again, in pure numbers that sounds awful, but working with the tech inside it, it would allow the Switch 2 to produce better looking shader/lighting effects than the OneX.
AMD doesn't really have a mobile competitor to Nvidia, but AMD is known for making more costume chips than Nvidia does. AMD is also working towards having 5nm chips by 2021, which would work much better in APU format for a mobile device than 7nm tegra would. However, there is no telling what kind of effect 5nm would have on floating points when compared to 7nm. Could be something small like a stable 5TFLOPs, or something crazy like a theoretical max of 9TFLOPs.
There is also the question of RAM and storage. NO mobile RAM now or by 2022 compares to the speeds and bandwidth of GDDR5. LPDDR5 doesn't come close and that's the FASTEST mobile RAM around right now. Nintendo could go with NVME storage to close that gap some, but unless someone makes a low powered version of GDDR5, GDDR6 or HBM2, I see memory speeds and bandwidth being an issue no matter what.
TL: DR - in terms of Floating points operations, Nintendo would need a custom chipset from Nvidia or AMD that had 7 or 5nm cores in order to compare, but it could be off set by the rest of the architecture, but could be bottle necked by the memory.
Then you have Nvidia and AMD. Their mobile efforts tend to be broader than just phones. When Nintendo were working on the Switch, they needed something in a hurry and just chose an off the shelf Tegra, which is something they've NEVER done before (but with the failure of the WiiU and the need for something quick, I can understand). However, the Tegra X1 was already two years old and ran no better than a Geforce 950 if you had to give it something to compare to. However, Nintendo can't repeat this with Nvidia. The Tegra series has stepped away from graphical processing and is focused solely on automation. So going with Nvidia (or AMD) would mean a costume chipset.
With Nvidia, they could do a costume version of the Orin chipset. Now this chipset has not been released, but Tegras tend to double performance over previous models (in this case the Tegra Xavier) while lowering power consumption. If you were to double the FLOPs from Xavier to Orin, you'd get 2.8TFLOPs, which, for most people here, would say that it wouldn't compare to the OneX. However, there is more to hardware than just how fast it can operate floating points (look at the history of AMD and Nvidia Graphic cards as proof of that). The Xavier chipset is the first Tegra to support Tensor cores. These are the chips partly responsible for the RTX series having ray tracing. If the next Switch uses the chipset that comes after Xavier (Orin) then it would mean it would have built in ray tracing, something the OneX doesn't have and cannot do. We also have to take into accounting that by 2020-2021, Nvidia will have die shrunk down to 7nm (for reference, the Switch's chips are at 20nm), allowing for more cores, more performance and less power consumption and less heat. This may allow for FLOPs anywhere from 3.2 to 5TFLOPs. Again, in pure numbers that sounds awful, but working with the tech inside it, it would allow the Switch 2 to produce better looking shader/lighting effects than the OneX.
AMD doesn't really have a mobile competitor to Nvidia, but AMD is known for making more costume chips than Nvidia does. AMD is also working towards having 5nm chips by 2021, which would work much better in APU format for a mobile device than 7nm tegra would. However, there is no telling what kind of effect 5nm would have on floating points when compared to 7nm. Could be something small like a stable 5TFLOPs, or something crazy like a theoretical max of 9TFLOPs.
There is also the question of RAM and storage. NO mobile RAM now or by 2022 compares to the speeds and bandwidth of GDDR5. LPDDR5 doesn't come close and that's the FASTEST mobile RAM around right now. Nintendo could go with NVME storage to close that gap some, but unless someone makes a low powered version of GDDR5, GDDR6 or HBM2, I see memory speeds and bandwidth being an issue no matter what.
TL: DR - in terms of Floating points operations, Nintendo would need a custom chipset from Nvidia or AMD that had 7 or 5nm cores in order to compare, but it could be off set by the rest of the architecture, but could be bottle necked by the memory.
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Come On Tars
Member
Next Nintendo might be Sega CD level
iHaunter
Member
They are definitely NOT 1080p/60. At least not any game that matters. BOTW had SEVERE performance issues and dropped below 15 fps constantly. Same with Pokemon Sword. Not to mention Sword looked like it was on Low Graphic settings.
iHaunter
Member
You can choose for many games though? On PS4 Pro I've gotten options to choose performance over graphics.
Xaero Gravity
NEXT LEVEL lame™
Can you name which are? Because I'm not entirely sure if that's accurate to be honest.
SuperGooey
Member
Nope. They're going old school. Switch 2 is will be 16 bit.
"that's all you'd ever need, baby." ~Shigeru Miyamoto
"that's all you'd ever need, baby." ~Shigeru Miyamoto
However, I'll still go for PS or Xbox because of their versatility, backward compatibility, and their consoles are quite solid over the past few years.
Soapbox Killer
Grand Nagus
Props on the solid breakdown.
Smash Ultimate, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, Splatoon 2, ARMS, Tropical Freeze of the top of my head. (Someone check my math)
vaibhavpisal
Member
Assume at your own peril.
XcloudTimdog
Banned
nah dont need it
Xaero Gravity
NEXT LEVEL lame™
I remember my first beer