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Is it wrong to judge somebody for speaking with a vocal fry/uptalk?
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You probably want to stay out of Australia then.
maquiladora
Member
Uptalk is the worst.
Freyjadour
Member
Anecdotal but everyone I've met with vocal fry is exceedingly annoying or douche-y and I've yet to be alone in that impression. It's not just the vocal fry, so again anecdotal and maybe coincidental, but now it's irritating to hear.
But I grew up around deep southern accents and don't have one so what do I know.
But I grew up around deep southern accents and don't have one so what do I know.
Me too! There is a sense of pride about that isn't there?
Mass Effect
Member
I didn't know there were terms for it. Vocal fry is whatever, I don't really have an opinion on it, but uptalk I am not a fan of at all. Like I'm not going to make judgements about anyone based on it, but it personally annoys me. I can't not notice it. Though I will say it's a lot more tolerable with non-American accents. I'm also not a fan of southern accents despite living in the South for my entire life, and I try my absolute hardest to not have one.
It's okay though, because whenever I hear myself talk it makes me want to punch myself in the face, so I guess it balances out.
I think you're taking this a bit too literally.
Some people like to grossly exaggerate to make a point, but I think you knew this already.
It's okay though, because whenever I hear myself talk it makes me want to punch myself in the face, so I guess it balances out.
I think you're taking this a bit too literally.
Some people like to grossly exaggerate to make a point, but I think you knew this already.
the_batman
Banned
yeah, my brother in law is australian and i love him but the uptalk makes me wish a dingo had gotten to him as a baby.
ayo, girl, you single or something?
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
The lady in the uptalk example video starts talking through her teeth in the latter portion of the video. I hate that shit just as much. It's like they're trying to bite and chew on every word, like a weird form of mumbling. It's most common with upscale types, corporate and religious bullshitters, since it's probably a byproduct of trying to smile all the time while having no idea what smiling is except showing teeth. It's also the way of two faced backstabbers since it can turn really condescending and hostile on a dime while still being really subtle to keep appearances. English is a language with big vowels, so open your mouth and use your lips.
Vocal fry happens in both men and women, but women catch way more flak for it.
This American Life did a story on it in 2015. You can also hear how much Ira Glass do it at the tail end of the previous segment. So yes, it's wrong.
This American Life did a story on it in 2015. You can also hear how much Ira Glass do it at the tail end of the previous segment. So yes, it's wrong.
GreatestHits
Member
Speech can definitely be a 'tell'. I just wouldn't get too caught up in that being your assessment of another human being. We r complicated creatures and things aren't often what they seem.
As the father of satanism says though, "do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law, biyaaaatch" or something like that
As the father of satanism says though, "do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law, biyaaaatch" or something like that
ClivePwned
Member
its not wrong to judge these monsters.
oh wait, they just speak in an amusingly irritating way. nvm.
oh wait, they just speak in an amusingly irritating way. nvm.
the_batman
Banned
Ozzie Osbourne said that?
i don't think it's a speech disorder, just people subconsciously imitating other people.
Andrew Korenchkin
Member
If it's a speech disorder, you should be utterly ashamed of yourself.
I don't think it is a speech disorder.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
I like how Obama talks. Clear, confident, yet relaxed, like he's really sharing what he thinks and inviting you to be welcome in the discussion of it. Even if he's bullshitting it feels like your friend who is just fuckin with you. It's always the same, whether needing to be apologetic over some shit that happened on his watch or trying to educate dumbasses when he's really pissed, it's always a collected and confident yet calm and open feeling.
And I loooooove him for it. Chef John is amazing.
GreatestHits
Member
1-900-F-R-Y
Had no idea it was called vocal fry but yes, for whatever reason it really irritates me. It just sounds unpleasant and is like nails on a chalkboard. I try not to let it influence my overall opinion of a person but it definitely makes it hard to talk to them.
Whatsherface from Brooklyn 99 often does it and if she wasn't as funny as she is, it would make the show unwatchable for me.
Whatsherface from Brooklyn 99 often does it and if she wasn't as funny as she is, it would make the show unwatchable for me.
Yes. It's a lazy, thoughtless judgement that skips discerning the content of speech and just picks at one aspect of the form you've made a pet hate. It's in the same ballpark as looking down your nose at specific dialects, accents, or foreign-born speakers who don't have a grasp of the nuances of the language in the same way. Ya'll are capable of better. No excuses.
.... What? I'm somehow sexist that I don't like a certain technique or whatever it's called that's used by both sexes?
Or are you just pulling my leg here?
I am not sure why people are calling it a technique. I had no idea I was even doing it until I watched the video. I've of course seen news stories around about the prevalence of 'vocal fry' but since I don't really care about reality tv, and most of them were mentioning it being birthed there, I wasn't interested in the 'scandal'.
I've been speaking this way my entire life, it's not something I tried to do. It's how I talk.
But it definitely is making me self-conscious now that I know a lot of people consider me a 'vapid moron' automatically on hearing me speak.
I do agree that judging a person based solely on the way they talk is prejudice, and prejudice is ignorance in most if not all cases. But I'm just wondering why it might be sexist of all things. That's what threw me off when I read that post.
I believe it can be considered sexist because it's mostly women that are called out for the vocal fry. In the link posted on this page, the This American Life program talks about it. The main host, who has a vocal fry, discusses all the emails he gets crucifying the women on the program for vocal fry, but he never even received one.
blame space
Banned
i can't judge these people because every time i open my mouth it's an unmitigated disaster.
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
I've never heard of this before. Ending a declarative sentence with a lowered pitch is the natural thing to do in both Germanic and Latin languages. I have no idea what the Normans have to do with it. This is a load of nonsense.
I strongly doubt you spoke that way as a child. I definitely think it is something learned. Though I don't think you decided to talk like that one day.
Puppet Shadow
Member
People tend to grow out of using uptalk as they get older. It's most common in late teens, though some still have it in their 20's. If you're still doing it in your 30's, the winds of maturity have left you behind.
Best of luck.
I imagine if you asked anyone I've known my whole, they would say my way of speaking has changed little since I hit my teens. Aside from losing a bit of my home state accent, I don't think it has. I'm mid 30s too, so it isn't as if I just hopped on this 'trend' as a teen.
I found an interesting article on vocal fry and sexism, pointing that a lot of men who are known for distinctive speaking voices have it, yet women are vilified for it.
http://www.dailydot.com/via/vocal-fry-99-percent-invisible-womens-voices/
http://www.dailydot.com/via/vocal-fry-99-percent-invisible-womens-voices/
What a petty way to make yourself sound more "mature" and superior to someone else.
Zepp Twofist
Member
I tend to get stuck on it if I'm listening to a podcast or something where somebody is talking like that. It detracts from the content. I don't make any judgement about intelligence based on the speech patterns because plenty of idiots speak perfectly normal so why give them the benefit? I might subconsciously make judgements about maturity, but most of all it is annoying to listen to.
It's possible I suppose. I would still considering it a bit of an outreach to condemn people who do find it annoying as sexist.
Your question made me curious, so I did a bit of looking and found the article I linked a few posts above. It makes an excellent point about perception of women who have vocal fry vs men who do.
Even goes to say that people aren't consciously sexist when condemning vocal fry in women, and it's more of a societal issue.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Uptalker haters can eat shit. Fuck off we're full.
Puppet Shadow
Member
You saw who I was quoting, yes?
So, were you mocking them or making a legit statement about "maturity"?
SomedayTheFire
Member
yes, i think it's wrong to mock people for how they talk and usually it's just to reinforce previously held biases.
I didn't even notice this before, but I'm British and it seems to be prevalent in American girls only.
My girlfriend is half American, kind of has the accent, but I think her French side causes more of an uptalk if anything (like she gets progressively higher in pitch). It might also be because she works in hospitality so she's tuned herself to speak in a super friendly way (rather than the straight flow authoritative voice).
My girlfriend is half American, kind of has the accent, but I think her French side causes more of an uptalk if anything (like she gets progressively higher in pitch). It might also be because she works in hospitality so she's tuned herself to speak in a super friendly way (rather than the straight flow authoritative voice).
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