mrmickfran
Member
Pls no.
Handhelds > Consoles
Handhelds > Consoles
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Is the handheld market in the West headed towards collapse?
- Thread starter Snakey
- Start date
You're not an Atlus fan, are you? They get away with charging $50 for their SMT titles.
Adam Prime
hates soccer, is Mexican
Kids are growing up on touchscreen controls. Kids never complain, "I wish this game had face buttons and a directional pad!"
That's only adults who complain about such things. Eventually the kids who grew up on touchscreen will be the ones making all the games... So yeah, I think the demand for button controls will diminish over "our" (NeoGAF 30-or something) lifetime.
That's only adults who complain about such things. Eventually the kids who grew up on touchscreen will be the ones making all the games... So yeah, I think the demand for button controls will diminish over "our" (NeoGAF 30-or something) lifetime.
jamesinclair
Banned
The 3ds is hurt by its failed launch.
No games.
Atrocious price
Load times
Missing features
3d gimmick
Steel diver $39.99
Garbage battery life
One stick
No alarm clock
No pictochat
Small screens
Low resolution
The first year was a disaster, and Nintendo took too long to respond. The New model addresses many concerns, but it was announced very far in advance and is hurting the holiday sales of the old model.
It's allot like the wii u.
When your first step out of the gate is to fall flat on your face with a "please understand" you kill your hype.
It's hard to fix that.
No games.
Atrocious price
Load times
Missing features
3d gimmick
Steel diver $39.99
Garbage battery life
One stick
No alarm clock
No pictochat
Small screens
Low resolution
The first year was a disaster, and Nintendo took too long to respond. The New model addresses many concerns, but it was announced very far in advance and is hurting the holiday sales of the old model.
It's allot like the wii u.
When your first step out of the gate is to fall flat on your face with a "please understand" you kill your hype.
It's hard to fix that.
At the same time this is also what drives the mass market. It's simple controls, you slide and tap. Nothing else to it. Plus simple controls means simple games that are easy to pick up and play, just the kind of thing to appeal to a mass audience.
SDCowboy
Member
I think it's only a matter of time (a short one) before we start seeing quality, handheld caliber, games on tablet/phone.
They have real controls that work well for plenty of real games. Your preferences don't dictate which games are real and which aren't.
JordanN
Banned
Handhelds were the last hope of AAA games on the go.
While mobile has better tech, no one would think of making an original Call of Duty or GTA for it unless it's a clone of an already existing mobile title like Clash of Clans or Puzzles and Dragons.
Its well worth it compared to all the free to play games out there.
SDCowboy
Member
Right, but there is no reason why handheld caliber games can't be made for mobile/tablet for most genres.
http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&ke...vptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_9prl58zwq7_e
Logitech, Steelseries, Ipega, Horii, Snakebyte, some better Power A models, and lots of miscellaneous smaller brands. There are some good ones in there.
Form factor doesn't matter to me, so the downward trend of portables doesn't bother me. I just want great games. The hardware is an obstacle getting in the way of enjoying a game that interests me.
They'll first try and see how supporting a single platform works out, think of how the new Smash is available for both hardware options. It's alot easier to focus on one ecosystem in terms of software support and marketing. We'll see how that goes before further speculation.
They'll first try and see how supporting a single platform works out, think of how the new Smash is available for both hardware options. It's alot easier to focus on one ecosystem in terms of software support and marketing. We'll see how that goes before further speculation.
Not so much quantifying as stating what's apparent; the DS sold like crazy and the PSP really well while coexisting versus the GBA selling very well in the amount of time Nintendo gave it. Stating the 3DS is selling poorly wouldn't really be accurate; it's certainly a healthy platform with a steady stream of games in the West. Yeah, it's down versus all their handhelds, but it's a return to form(that being, healthy sales and good game attach rates) for Nintendo relative to their new market space shared with tablets and phones, compared to their dominance in a booming market with the DS.
It's not me propping the 3DS and saying that it's sales are comparable to its predecessors as it is me saying that it's not the Wi//DS sales era for Nintendo anymore, when I said return to form. But saying handhelds are dying is waaaay too early. Dead things don't move a million copies in one market for their notable releases.
I don't think the problem will go away. I doubt there's a way to add a more complicated interface to a tablet or smartphone without sacrificing screen space, weight, etc.
Smartphones and tablets are incredibly powerful and have the processing power for complex games, but those games are basically limited to a screen that usually just accepts one input at a time, or has to cover the screen to add additional inputs, typically creating an impractical compromise.
Maybe that's just me, but those control overlays in more complex touch-device games are jarring compared to using a controller or physical buttons on a handheld, and any sort of add-ons for tablets/phones immediately make them look terrible and cumbersome.
Nakasan
Member
Thankfully, I disagree with this. I think it makes the assumption (again, I think, I apologise if I have that wrong) that we like button controls because we're used to them and not because they're inherently better.
My hope is physical controls will be able to stand on their own, outside of our nostalgia.
I must say though I loved the socks off my Xperia play. If that had been accepted by SCE and also the general population I think there would have been no space at all left for dedicated handhelds.
YatÅkiri_Kilgharrah
Banned
If VR takes off, it's only going to exacerbate the idea of "controller-free" gaming
deltatheta
Member
People will carry them around if they anticipate needing to use them. I don't think anyone is carrying around a 3DS every day unless they're a StreetPass addict, but if you're going to take a long train ride, or meeting someone to play local multiplayer with, or have a free lunch break, you'll make room for it. The whole conceit of handhelds is that they're deeper experiences than other mobile games.
People have been saying that for a while. I think the biggest thing holding phone games back is the economic model. Controls are a red herring. There are plenty of 3DS games that would work just fine on a phone. But not if they had to be shoehorned into a freemium model or sold for $2.
Devilgunman
Member
Just a matter of time. Handheld gaming will migrate to phone in the near future, wheter you like it or not.
Coffee Dog
Banned
There will be, but only among a niche. Touch controls have a far smaller learning curve than buttons, so to 99% of gamers buttons are effectively obsolete.
I would agree with you if the mobile software market wasn't such a piece of shit. That's what Apple really screwed up by not giving games the respect Nintendo and Sony have given them. For the most part the mobile game market has nothing to offer dedicated users, and that's pretty much what dedicated handhelds have to fall back on right now. Other than Crossy Road I basically haven't played any games on my phone or tablet in like a year, choosing my 3DS over it every time. It's a shame too, because I think that last disadvantage of mobile as a platform wouldn't exist if developers could get away with selling $20 or $30 iOS and Android games.
I think that's correct for some titles, but man... Imagine Nintendo letting you buy each pokemon for $2.49 instead of having to go hunting for them, or giving you a perfect IV/EV pokemon for $3.49.
Or, Mystery box for $4.99, get 2 pokemon and a random mega stone.
Etc. etc. etc.
How is that? If anything, VR games have more complicated control demands than current controllers can provide, which is why people are making things like the STEM.
YatÅkiri_Kilgharrah
Banned
Their hardware's pretty reliable and power efficient. I 'd consider that to be sacred.
Making games for iOS and Android doesnt make sense for Nintendo. Unless you want half of their library to go up in smoke because those games dont work on mobile.
You just want them to make touch generation games when there are a thousand competitors on the phone market all trying to do their own thing?
Nintendo's a craftsman. They make their own things and they experiment with them. You cant do this on mobile. They intend to use mobiles to connect with consumers.
VR dude. Im pretty sure the pointless miasma of doom and gloom is gonna suffocate somebody on this forum one of these days
perfectchaos007
Member
People laughed when The N-Gage combined handheld gaming with a phone. Turns out, they saw the writing on the wall with cellphone gaming taking out handheld dedicated gaming in the future. Nokia was the prophet no one listened to.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
You do have a few of them now, but they're pretty much all ports (Dragon Quest, Phoenix Wright, XCOM, etc.)
I'm not saying that mobile devices can't have real games - I've certainly enjoyed games such as 80 Days and Superbrothers: Sword and Sworcery on my iPhone - but the necessity of having all touchscreen controls and especially the limited real estate of a smartphone (obviously things are easier on tablets) limit the feasibility of certain types of games.
That just sounds terrible. I'm assuming you don't think it does?
Portugeezer
Gold Member
The casuals/non-gamers fucked off to their tablets and smartphones.
3DS is still selling well. I hope Nintendo stays in the handheld business until it truly dies (if ever).
3DS is still selling well. I hope Nintendo stays in the handheld business until it truly dies (if ever).
ieptbarakat
Member
The draw of a unified portable device is killing the mainstream handheld market. Same reason there aren't as many watch wearing, camera lugging, mp3 player carrying people anymore. Most see their phones as the 'good enough' device.
To top it all off people are giving their phones to infants for them to play on and kids are getting smartphones at earlier and earlier ages every year. Which means the enthusiast handheld market is getting older without drawing as many younger people in, as you can see with the Pokemon age demographic being split in the middle for older and younger fans of the series, which should theoretically have a larger youth install base.
So whether it means handhelds will stop being made is uncertain, the market just won't be as big as they were in the 90's and early 2000's.
To top it all off people are giving their phones to infants for them to play on and kids are getting smartphones at earlier and earlier ages every year. Which means the enthusiast handheld market is getting older without drawing as many younger people in, as you can see with the Pokemon age demographic being split in the middle for older and younger fans of the series, which should theoretically have a larger youth install base.
So whether it means handhelds will stop being made is uncertain, the market just won't be as big as they were in the 90's and early 2000's.
YatÅkiri_Kilgharrah
Banned
Phones arent able to replicate the experience as they are.
Not to mention the vicegrip phones and tablets held on the market is trending down.
The 3DS was able to weather the worst of the mobile boom and come out with 45 milllion units sold worldwide.
Sure, but I think that publishers/developers want Android and IOS users to buy those games at a premium price and not at $0.99. If that doesn't change soon I don't think developers can make high quality handheld like games if they have to sell more than 10-20 million to make a profit (if I'm wrong then please tell me)
What is there to absorb?
YatÅkiri_Kilgharrah
Banned
Monster Hunter clones and the Otaku market
No, Nokia was getting ahead of themselves. They didnt have the gumption to execute on their idea anyway. The thing they made? You literally had to take the battery pack off to put a game in . The hell is up with that?
Apple made it convenient to game on phones
Dedicated handhelds arent going anywhere. Just like dedicated reading tablets arent going anywhere. Amazon has a thing or two for you folk.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Here's one big reason, OP.
MegaMelon
Member
That would be shit to be frank. It may also have the side effect of causing sales to be really good before dropping off the face of the Earth. Pokemon just isn't the type of game that would be able to survive on mobile, at least in the form we recognize it as.
Jesus Christ you hit the nail on the head. That's the whole irony of handhelds right there. Right now dedicated handhelds are shitty hardware with great software, mobile devices are great hardware with shitty software. Of course my current behavior suggest software quality wins out, but it's still a frustrating situation.
I don't know man. Hardware-wise it's possible, but I just don't think the market supports it from a price perspective. The prices people are wiling to accept for iOS and Android games are way too low. I think to get handheld caliber games on those systems we'd need handheld-level prices, or at least what handheld game prices used to be. Right now the best examples we see are ported to mobiles from other platforms like PC and console. I want to see somebody like Capcom or Atlus attempt to sell an original iOS game for $20 and have it be just as good as a new Ace Attorney or Shin Megami Tensei. Maybe just try to launch iOS and Android versions day-and-date with 3DS versions. I think they'd have to be convinced dedicated gamers would follow them to tablets. They'd have to go in realizing the casual mobile users won't buy those games and that they'll mainly appeal to the existing niche. The problem with that however is app store top charts.
Discoverability on mobile has become fucked which is a whole problem of its own. Niche games don't have a place on mobile (which is what dedicated handheld games are outside Nintendo 1st party). Not to mention Apple allows huge numbers of just egregious clones onto its platform. If Apple had the same respect for video games Sony or even Microsoft has going on, games would probably have been their own entire store instead of a convenient accident out of their software store. Shit, Apple doesn't even really consider games to be art or legit media, which is evident through their ratings policies for games.
Maybe that's how Google could get a leg up, or Amazon, or hell even Microsoft -- by taking steps to make their mobile platforms good places for high-quality portable games. Amazon's trying to get its 1st party development going but I feel like companies would have to do more than that. Microsoft would have to care as much about mobile gaming as it does about Xbox, and put the same amount of design effort into it. Any of the three would probably have to court Japanese developers, who are making basically all the handheld-caliber games. If one of them could convince Capcom or somebody to do a brand new Monster Hunter-quality game on Android or Windows 10 or whatever, it could be a start.
SuperDowns
Banned
As long as they remain profitable then Nintendo (maybe Sony) will continue adding them.
Reallink
Member
3DS is almost 4 years old and still has a list price of $200 for the SKU's most people would want to buy. By no stretch of the definition or imagination would I describe that as being "positioned very well in price point". It's ridiculously expensive for being this far into the cycle and for what it is HW wise. It's a straight up horrible value. Even $249 in 2011 was easier to swallow as at least the technology was somewhat cutting edge.
HeartlessNobody213
Member
It's no surprise really. I guess it's a popular opinion but I personally wouldn't miss them. The last dedicated handheld I owned was a Gameboy Advance SP.
Succinct Verbosity
Member
It's not that the competition is more intense, but because both Applae and samsung provide beautifully designed portable products with a decent amount of (underutilized) power. Maybe if Nintendo relaunched the Gameboy line with a portable more in tune with the market then we'll see growth again.
Dude, I love their handhelds and games on them. Why wish that it be gone? It's an important part of their company.
This is on point basically. The 3DS from a tech point is a horrible value, even $99 for the 2DS is a bit of a stretch for the hardware inside the device. Nintendo did a horrible job creating an economical device that could scale in cost easily, which is why we're seeing the New 3DS. Small revision to prop up the existing price because it can't get that much cheaper.
Dont know if I buy the comment of niche games not having a place on mobile. Digital board games seems to do well on those platforms and thats terribly niche. Of course budgets are small and people there seem willing to pay for those games.
Sadly Yes. I just realized that I have gotten more enjoyment out of my vita and 3DS than all of my consoles combined this year.
Nintendo had enough system moving portable franchises and Japan to keep it being a profitable endeavor but in the West? Nah. People enjoy their shitty mobile games now... And you can't beat free orcheap games
Nintendo had enough system moving portable franchises and Japan to keep it being a profitable endeavor but in the West? Nah. People enjoy their shitty mobile games now... And you can't beat free orcheap games
3DS is pretty old. How can you expect it to constantly sell millions when pretty much everyone has one?
Kind of ridiculous considering consoles are cheaper than good phones and tablets.
Kind of ridiculous considering consoles are cheaper than good phones and tablets.