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Is the handheld market in the West headed towards collapse?
- Thread starter Snakey
- Start date
SpinningBirdKick
Banned
Dedicated handheld gaming is dead.
Didn't you get the memo?
There is no way any sane developer or publisher that is not locked into agreements with a platform owner would even consider releasing a title on a handheld rather than a mobile/tablet. Successful games on mobile/tablet are making daily profits that handheld titles can only dream about,
Dedicated handheld gaming is finished, Nintendo may blunder on for another generation or so but we're never going to see it return to it's previous glory days. Dedicated handheld hardware and software is too expensive to compete with mobiles and tablets.
Didn't you get the memo?
There is no way any sane developer or publisher that is not locked into agreements with a platform owner would even consider releasing a title on a handheld rather than a mobile/tablet. Successful games on mobile/tablet are making daily profits that handheld titles can only dream about,
Dedicated handheld gaming is finished, Nintendo may blunder on for another generation or so but we're never going to see it return to it's previous glory days. Dedicated handheld hardware and software is too expensive to compete with mobiles and tablets.
And_Gignac
Member
Pricey software and smartphones. Nintendo would be in Samsung level if they had have the foresight of transforming the 3DS into a smartphone with a Google or Nokia parternship.
In Japan 3DS is about to outsell PS2 (1-2 years) so it´s not surprising that it covers most and also many different videogame demographics there.
Graphics Horse
Member
I don't think that's anything to do with delusion, do you really think they have a special place in their heart for Australia?
higgsboson1997
Member
What!? For me, it's the exact opposite. My backlog of 3ds games is massive.
TheGreyHulk
Member
It's not dead at all here. Its just that Nintendo isn't the only sheriff in town anymore. Apple and android are here to stay and have taken a huge piece of the pie for the young market.
It's so easy to give kids a tablet or phone now especially hand me downs. We have a spare iPhone 5 because the wife upgraded...that's an iPhone 5 that's still relevant and fully capable for use. It'll be my daughter's whenever she's capable of using it. It's that easy and many people do it...why buy a gaming handheld if you already have hand me down iPhones for free? Plus the youth love it. Its super portable and does more than just game.
Nintendo will be fine with handhelds here in the us, but they finally have fierce competition and its reflected in their same numbers
It's so easy to give kids a tablet or phone now especially hand me downs. We have a spare iPhone 5 because the wife upgraded...that's an iPhone 5 that's still relevant and fully capable for use. It'll be my daughter's whenever she's capable of using it. It's that easy and many people do it...why buy a gaming handheld if you already have hand me down iPhones for free? Plus the youth love it. Its super portable and does more than just game.
Nintendo will be fine with handhelds here in the us, but they finally have fierce competition and its reflected in their same numbers
That's my biggest problem with this. Had the situation been more or less the same as with the original Game Boy (a few interesting games, but most genres had similar but bigger, more fleshed out games on consoles) then it'd be disappointing but not something I'd lament or desperately want held on to. As is, consoles have become lame for JRPGs, strategy games rarely show up (though they've become more a PC genre in general), and handhelds had been an outlet for a certain type of middle ground game between AAA and small indie/cheap digital titles, and unfortunately that spot's been vanishing too.
EDIT: Although, I'd be kind of curious about the numbers for software versus before, and where. It has been speculated most of the casual audience has left and so we might be seeing similar software numbers, if not stronger outside of the casual stuff. Problem being that unlike consoles that dedicated base may not be large enough to justify continued development, except maybe into a digital-only approach. :/
Except they're not. You can look at Nintendo's own metrics, a good example being the average age of Pokémon buyers is rising while overall sales are slowing. They're not bringing in new kids and replenishing the audience.
Chittagong
Gold Member
It's already dead
In a few years the handheld market will barely exist, solely occupied by a cheap, first party supported only Nintendo / Pokemon device . I don't see Sony doing another handheld after PS Vita. And no publisher in their right mind will support a portable console.
The world has changed. Tablets have taken over the portable console use case. With games like Walking Dead, TWAU, Clash of Clans, Best Fiends, Vain Glory, Banner Saga and Spy Master tablet gaming is finally much more exciting than portables are, even for a more demanding gamer like myself. Add to that the ability to have all your games one touch away, integrated social networking, lower cost of games, bigger screens, better graphics... Tablet gaming is bound to flourish.
Like many gamers I will miss console style controls on the go, but something has to give.
In a few years the handheld market will barely exist, solely occupied by a cheap, first party supported only Nintendo / Pokemon device . I don't see Sony doing another handheld after PS Vita. And no publisher in their right mind will support a portable console.
The world has changed. Tablets have taken over the portable console use case. With games like Walking Dead, TWAU, Clash of Clans, Best Fiends, Vain Glory, Banner Saga and Spy Master tablet gaming is finally much more exciting than portables are, even for a more demanding gamer like myself. Add to that the ability to have all your games one touch away, integrated social networking, lower cost of games, bigger screens, better graphics... Tablet gaming is bound to flourish.
Like many gamers I will miss console style controls on the go, but something has to give.
Yeah, that Pokemon/CoD picture is pretty close to reality, though I'd imagine it's actually more that Minecraft would fit in where CoD does given that seems to be THE big thing and it wasn't explicitly made for children in the first place, just happened to explode among them.sörine;143135800 said:
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Its dead jim. The literal only thing that doesn't make mobile gaming as good as handheld gaming is tactile controls.
I can see a tru 3ds successor, but its going to be a niche device and will be abandoned by the the market at large within 2-3 years of launching. The majoriy of will not be gaming on handhelds by 2020.
I can see a tru 3ds successor, but its going to be a niche device and will be abandoned by the the market at large within 2-3 years of launching. The majoriy of will not be gaming on handhelds by 2020.
nkarafo
Member
Thank god for that or else we will be stuck with touch screen controls only and shallow adobe-flash quality games.
……forgetit
Member
Didn't know Youkai Watch was a success in the west......
Admittedly I wonder how much of that is due to the selection offered so far. We're mostly seeing crappy controller add-ons that are grossly expensive and seemingly not marketed all that much, of course they won't take off in sales.
It's not just the west. The smartphone / tablet gaming market in Japan is larger than the dedicated market (hardware and software combined).
It was astonishing to watch the speed at which smartphones took hold and then dominated.
It was astonishing to watch the speed at which smartphones took hold and then dominated.
Some of the most original and creative games being released nowadays are smartphone games.
small44
Member
Didn't know Youkai Watch was released in West and smartphone are popular everywhere
I don't feel that way at all but then in the past several months I've bought Smash Bros, Persona Q, Fantasy Life, Theathrhythm CC, Legend of Dark Witch, Mighty Gunvolt, AA Trilogy, Harvest Moon LV, Pokémon AS, Picross e5, KORG DSN-12 and probably some other stuff I'm forgetting. YMMV obviously but a lot of content for 3DS (and Vita!) is still localized. I'd even say outside two key franchises (Dragon Quest and Kunio) pretty much everything I'm interested in on 3DS makes it's way over.
Perhaps you missed my original caveat, but it was outside Japan. Things are still okay(ish) in the Nihon.
Nintendo needs to hit it out of the park with their next handheld in this climate, that's for sure.
Price: Needs to launch at $199 tops, preferably $149.
Looks: Needs to look sexy, like the DS Lite did at the time. A decent screen, hopefully 720p.
Support for modern game engines: Needs to be decent under the hood and be able to easily run modern game engines, so mobile developers can bring their software to Nintendo device with minimum effort and minimum hassle.
First party software: They need big games day one, and a consistent release schedule after launch. The 3DS really failed in this regard which hurt sales potential significantly long term in overseas markets. The new development philosophy should help with this. Also, potentially lowering first party software prices.
eShop: Must be ready day one, support F2P games and heavy DLC, so must have adequate storage capacity.
Basically Nintendo needs to release a great machine day one. It can't have features missing like the eShop. Can't have features only fully realized two remodels later (3D). Must have consistent software output; the current 3DS release slate would be unacceptable for a new machine. Big first party titles day one, ideally launching in holiday season with stuff like Pokemon and 2D Mario. Must fully support F2P games and mobile software. Sleek design, an HD screen, and a price no higher than $199 day one.
Good luck Nintendo.
Price: Needs to launch at $199 tops, preferably $149.
Looks: Needs to look sexy, like the DS Lite did at the time. A decent screen, hopefully 720p.
Support for modern game engines: Needs to be decent under the hood and be able to easily run modern game engines, so mobile developers can bring their software to Nintendo device with minimum effort and minimum hassle.
First party software: They need big games day one, and a consistent release schedule after launch. The 3DS really failed in this regard which hurt sales potential significantly long term in overseas markets. The new development philosophy should help with this. Also, potentially lowering first party software prices.
eShop: Must be ready day one, support F2P games and heavy DLC, so must have adequate storage capacity.
Basically Nintendo needs to release a great machine day one. It can't have features missing like the eShop. Can't have features only fully realized two remodels later (3D). Must have consistent software output; the current 3DS release slate would be unacceptable for a new machine. Big first party titles day one, ideally launching in holiday season with stuff like Pokemon and 2D Mario. Must fully support F2P games and mobile software. Sleek design, an HD screen, and a price no higher than $199 day one.
Good luck Nintendo.
Felix Andrews
Member
Less successful is still successful, in this instance. I really wish people could get to grips with that notion, suits especially.
AtomskEater
Member
I really hope dedicated handhelds live on. I'm sure Nintendo will be more or less fine since they still have first party titles, Pokemon, etc, but the market for them has definitely shrunk since Gameboy and DS days.
If dedicated handhelds go away I want super competently done, good control, convenient remote play to become standard for home consoles. I can't do the whole 'stay looking at a TV screen' thing, love handhelds for the ability to move around the house, lie in bed, sit in different chairs etcetera.
...or, alternatively, more of the kind of games I like on phones. Or a phone designed around games that doesn't crash frequently or overwhelm me with adds and IAPs.
...or, alternatively, more of the kind of games I like on phones. Or a phone designed around games that doesn't crash frequently or overwhelm me with adds and IAPs.
Adam_Roman
Member
Handhelds will always be around as long as companies learn to market them properly and don't expect sales similar to those of home consoles if the company's not willing to provide a reason to buy said system.
Sony not marketing the Vita is the primary reason why it hasn't been selling well, not because nobody wants a portable. That's why nearly everyone with a Vita is happy with it, and anyone without one thinks it's a dead system. Contrarily, Nintendo's still releasing great first-party titles on 3DS and more importantly, advertising, so their sales are still doing pretty well.
The handheld market will never be as big as the home console market again, since smartphones have given the average person a way to play a $0.99 game when their bored instead of having to buy a $200 system with $40 games. But because video games will always be an existing market, I don't see any reason a portable system won't be able to survive in the future.
Also a little side-note, I feel like cross-buy and cross-play will be a big factor with the next generation of handhelds. Being able to keep my Binding of Isaac save with me across my PS4 and Vita, and using my 3DS as a controller in Smash Bros, were game-changers for me.
Sony not marketing the Vita is the primary reason why it hasn't been selling well, not because nobody wants a portable. That's why nearly everyone with a Vita is happy with it, and anyone without one thinks it's a dead system. Contrarily, Nintendo's still releasing great first-party titles on 3DS and more importantly, advertising, so their sales are still doing pretty well.
The handheld market will never be as big as the home console market again, since smartphones have given the average person a way to play a $0.99 game when their bored instead of having to buy a $200 system with $40 games. But because video games will always be an existing market, I don't see any reason a portable system won't be able to survive in the future.
Also a little side-note, I feel like cross-buy and cross-play will be a big factor with the next generation of handhelds. Being able to keep my Binding of Isaac save with me across my PS4 and Vita, and using my 3DS as a controller in Smash Bros, were game-changers for me.
nkarafo
Member
I'm willing to bet that the games you have in mind are restricted to the only genres that can work well with a touch screen only interface. Strategy, card games and point & click adventures.
ChiefofCitadelSecurity
Member
Father_Brain
Banned
It boggles my mind that people still believe this nonsense.
Vita failed because it was conceived and designed for a market that no longer exists (teen/adult males who want to play complex, console-style 3D games on the go). Sony could have spent five times as much on advertising and it wouldn't have mattered much in the end.
The bolded may well be true, but that tends to be true of niche products. Which is what Vita is, not something that could have ever been a mainstream hit had Sony tried harder to awaken the ignorant sheeple to its magnificence.
cheetodust
Neo Member
This sums up how I feel too. Imo most of the people asserting that the market is dead and gone probably haven't picked up a 3DS or any dedicated handheld recently. The games available for it are outstanding and the quality of gameplay on a 3DS is not in any way comparable to mobile games you can play on your phone/tablet.
And anyways I'm not convinced that people would honestly embrace the death of games like Pokemon as we know them now, replaced with a cheap watered-down version for tablets. The market has changed for sure but that doesn't mean there isn't still a large amount of people who prefer deeper, higher quality portable games.
Saucycarpdog
Member
Well yeah you got that right but I don't see how that disputes Dave's claim.
Sammy Samusu
Member
Nintendo needs to push for western support too.
Japanese games can only take you so far, PSP had a great start thanks to all the western developed games.
Japanese games can only take you so far, PSP had a great start thanks to all the western developed games.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
The fact people haven't grasped yet that there's a mid-ground between "DS levels of success" and "market collapse" in three years is concerning.
Chittagong
Gold Member
So, basically a $149 Vita?
I feel it's the other way around - people who dismiss mobile / tablet games as shallow Flash games haven't clearly played Walking Dead, Vain Glory, Banner Saga or Spymaster. All of them are rich and deep games that are more immersive and deeper than many 3DS games.
I've been thinking. Maybe the future of hardcore handheld games really is as just an extension of core console gaming.
Nintendo's been implying its next cycle of hardware is just gonna be a handheld and console form factor that share the same library of software, so they'll be able to make games that run on both. This would be an answer to the problem of audiences with diverging preferences in where and how they play games. Nintendo right now is trying to simultaneously please an audience in Japan that mainly plays games on portable systems, and audiences in the west that prefer consoles. It's already having to make basically two versions of every game to satisfy these demographics. With this unified ecosystem approach they could simply make games people can play wherever they want, whether that be at home on a big TV or on a device they carry with them. It wouldn't be handheld games and console games anymore, but just games.
Nintendo's been implying its next cycle of hardware is just gonna be a handheld and console form factor that share the same library of software, so they'll be able to make games that run on both. This would be an answer to the problem of audiences with diverging preferences in where and how they play games. Nintendo right now is trying to simultaneously please an audience in Japan that mainly plays games on portable systems, and audiences in the west that prefer consoles. It's already having to make basically two versions of every game to satisfy these demographics. With this unified ecosystem approach they could simply make games people can play wherever they want, whether that be at home on a big TV or on a device they carry with them. It wouldn't be handheld games and console games anymore, but just games.
The breaking point is when 3rd party developers won't make compelling software for the machine. It becomes a chicken and an egg situation.
I'm not surprised 3DS numbers are down the month before the New 3DS launches, people are gonna hold out for that revision once it was announced.
Well shit, if only they had a cool uncle to buy them a couple of cheap 2DSes.
Well shit, if only they had a cool uncle to buy them a couple of cheap 2DSes.
MetalSlug
Member
I'm from the UK and I don't think I've seen a single person with a 3DS or Vita. Out of all my friends, I'm the only one with a 3DS.
deltatheta
Member
This is a great summary of what their stated strategy is. I'm not sure if it will work but I think it's the best possible path forward for them.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
It's the perfect midway, but the tech needs to be there I think.
gigantor21
Member
I won't believe the handheld market has collapsed until Nintendo puts out a good handheld that flops.
If even they can't manage decent sales at their best, the whole segment is as good as dead and buried.
If even they can't manage decent sales at their best, the whole segment is as good as dead and buried.
Most of their handheld games are polygon based 3D games nowadays, next gen has to look significantly better than stuff like 3D Land, MK7 and Pokemon X/Y.
But at the same time (presumably) without any direct competition and perhaps ditching stereoscopic 3D they can achieve a good balance between graphics and pricepoint, without worrying about how an Uncharted game may look on a successor to PSV.