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It's been 5 years since the last console ZELDA was revealed. Is it time for another?

Raide said:
After announcing Spirit Tracks, you really think they are going to announce another Zelda so soon?


I would rather Nintendo either

1) New IP's. Leave Mario alone for a bit, his ass is all sore. :lol
2) Old IP's they have not touched yet. i.e. F-Zero, PilotWings
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Well, we know that the larger of the two EAD Group 3 teams is working on a new Zelda game, so it's a question of when, not if.

We don't know what Konno's Group 1 is currently up to after Mario Kart Wii, so they might tackle one of the franchises you mentioned. Although Sugiyama (of Pilotwings and F-Zero X fame and someone who would presumable be involved with such a project) is with EAD Group 2 currently - at least afaik.
 
I still don't understand the TP hate. The best complaints I can think about it are the beginning and character designs. Second best console Zelda imo.
 
Zelda Wii using LTTP's art. Either will do:

28268_the_legend_of_zelda_a_link_to_the_past-v2.png


http://www.blogcdn.com/nintendo.*******.com/media/2007/10/zelda-players-guide-0-dsf.jpg

Actually, I prefer the bottom.
 
I guess we have to wait for a new console Zelda to come out before people stop trolling Twilight Princess?

People who put Wind Waker above it are nuts.
 
Jason's Ultimatum said:
Zelda Wii using LTTP's art. Either will do:

28268_the_legend_of_zelda_a_link_to_the_past-v2.png
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ugh, the least they could've done was set the zelda logo onto Multiply so it didnt have the white freaking BG.. or even just cropped it!

Bastards.
 
DeaconKnowledge said:
Come on. You Zelda bitching zealots don't know what the fuck you want. You say you want "different, but still Zelda" and then when Nintendo gives it to you you still bitch. What about Phantom Hourglass wasn't Zelda? What about Spirit tracks (that we know anyway; which is virtually nothing) isn't Zelda? Both games either had or look to have different elements while still retaining the core gameplay.
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looooool! How true...there's always something to bitch about when fans are concerned. So long as Nintendo puts their earplugs in for the development cycle of the real Wii Zelda, I'm sure it'll be everything we never knew we wanted, and then some....months later we'll recap and bitch, but it's expected.(for the most part, I've always been happy with Zelda games)

I really liked PH though, completely took me by surprise, and I'm looking forward to Spirit Tracks. With every change, there will always be devotees who would have wanted it this way or that, the same but new...Nintendo usually finds the perfect balance, I'm satisfied knowing that.
 
I'm on the side that thinks we'll see a new Mario announced before a new Zelda, I don't think Nintendo would announce (proper) new installments for both franchises at the same event, which presents the risk of one game getting more attention than the other.

Hell, I hope I'm wrong, but my gut instinct is just telling me that it'll be all about Mario this year.
 
Loxley said:
I'm on the side that thinks we'll see a new Mario announced before a new Zelda, I don't think Nintendo would announce (proper) new installments for both franchises at the same event, which presents the risk of one game getting more attention than the other.

Hell, I hope I'm wrong, but my gut instinct is just telling me that it'll be all about Mario this year.
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Even though TP could have realistically come out two years before Mario Galaxy and still came out a year earlier?
 
Starchasing said:
i have a little hope.... iwata always talks about how they must surprise fans ...

zelda, galaxy, prime, disaster... all started at the time of GC ... they have basicly old gameplay with new features added...

its time for new "hardcore" games that started to be developed for Wii day 0
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I cry for this generation. Galaxy has the same mechanics (jumping, platforming, ect.) but its gameplay (what manner the mechanics are used) is drastically different than previous entries in the series. Some stars have more in common with previous efforts than others but in general there is enough of a difference to call it fresh.

Thats is unless you're on of those reductionists who see everything in such broad strokes that everything can be everything. Its got Mario and jumping, same difference.
 
Unless Nintendo has a Mario Galaxy-esque evolution in store for the next console Zelda, there is no need for it to exist. The world doesn't need Zelda 16: Same Old Shit any more than it needs another dozen Terminator movies made over the next 15 years.
 
DjangoReinhardt said:
Unless Nintendo has a Mario Galaxy-esque evolution in store for the next console Zelda, there is no need for it to exist. The world doesn't need Zelda 16: Same Old Shit any more than it needs another dozen Terminator movies made over the next 15 years.
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yes the world does ... even more so when every other game released now days is "same as" FPS.
 
DjangoReinhardt said:
Unless Nintendo has a Mario Galaxy-esque evolution in store for the next console Zelda, there is no need for it to exist. The world doesn't need Zelda 16: Same Old Shit any more than it needs another dozen Terminator movies made over the next 15 years.
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I don't get this. So does the world again not need Modern Warfare 2? Uncharted 2? Gears of War 2? These games aren't doing anything drastically different, but their still all are or going to be fantastic games. And fuck all if you think Twilight Princess is exactly like its predecessors. It's as much an evolution of the series as the aforementioned games are.
 
Prime Blue said:
I think the original trumps them:

--Huge classic Link pic--
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I'd love to see this style, cel-shaded, in a new game.

Beyond the graphics though, I'd really like to see a whole overhaul of the series before I bought another Zelda game. I didn't like TP at all.
 
It may have been five years since the last console Zelda but it only feels like two years since it was released thanks to all the times it was delayed.

Personally, I am all Zelda'd-out. Twilight Princess, for all its great art direction, felt seriously underwhelming. Dungeons and items really felt like I was just going through the motions.

Then again, there was that big huge announcement that TP was the last of the OOT-style Zelda games, so if they reveal something it's probably going to be in a completely new direction with a completely new gameplay style.

But yeah. My main problem is that Zelda has started to feel sort of bi-annual. That relates more towards the portable Zeldas, I guess, but it still feels like there's too many Zelda games nowadays, and the franchise just doesn't feel "special" anymore to me.
 
Then again, there was that big huge announcement that TP was the last of the OOT-style Zelda games, so if they reveal something it's probably going to be in a completely new direction with a completely new gameplay style.
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not this again
 
Yes it is definitely time, and I am of the opinion that they need to reboot the console series. They need too back to the games roots and restart from the very beginning, re-form the legend and create a consistent focus for the future of the series.

A lot of people say they have Zelda fatigue and I think thats because the game has lost its focus(or because its never had one) since Nintendo has been creating most Zelda games inside a bubble, removed and independent of all the other games. Because of that separation we are losing a sense of progression. We defeat Ganon only for him to return again in the next game and we see no connection or affect of our actions from the previous game(s), so it feels like we are retreading old ground with each new title only with a different coat of paint and a new gameplay attraction. Each entry into the series just becomes another Zelda game.

I want Nintendo to start at the beginning of it all, have a clean slate and really try to make the plot a driving force in the game that continues on through the next few titles. It doesnt mean making the series story centric with lots of cutscenes and dialogue. A simple story can be quite powerful if told correctly, something Nintendo has not always done, they have rarely put a lot of craftsmanship or care into their plots.

Take TP for example, it had probably the largest and most complicated plot in a Zelda game but failed almost completely because it often felt like a mishmash of random events, things were just spliced together and as a result often lost their meaning.

Meanwhile OoT and MM had far simpler stories but were focused and cohesive. They used simple cutscenes without much dialogue and rather used expressions and other visual cues to convey the emotions and feelings of characters or to advance the plot. As a result both games had a number of powerful scenes and were better overall for it. As well with MM it was a direct sequel to OoT, so it was able to build upon everything we knew from that game and use the connections we had made. We were continuing the story of Link in search of Navi. We had a vested interest and knowledge of the situation that would not have been possible if it werent an OoT sequel.

My ideal Zelda would be one that is inspired by the original Zelda concept art by Katsuya Terada and is focused on letting the player truly explore a mysterious but vast and rich world and to create connections with that world and the people in it that can and will be built upon in subsequent sequels in the series.
 
BrandNew said:
not this again
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Not that I doubt you
much
but do you have a source for saying that's bogus?

Because I think it was last year Miyamoto said something like "We are changing things but we have to be careful what we change", which is different from that "false interview" you claim, but similar enough.

Edit- He said it needs some "big new unique ideas". But he also said he doesn't expect it to change drastically (drastic meaning a first-person type change). Hrm.

At GDC 2007, Eiji Aonuma gave a presentation on The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess. At that time, he showed a brief snippet of an experimentation the Zelda team conducted -- it was Twilight Princess running in the first-person view. We asked Miyamoto if such a fundamental change could await players of Wii's next Zelda adventure.

"I don't necessarily think it will change that drastically, but I think that Zelda is a franchise that does need some big new unique ideas," he said. "And so the team right now is very focused on trying to find those ideas."
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Edit 2- 1up:

"What I've been saying to our development teams recently is that The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess was not a bad game, by any means. But, still, it felt like there was something missing," he said. "And while, personally, I feel like Super Mario Galaxy was able to do some things that were very unique, at the same time, from another perspective, certain elements of it do feel somewhat conservative." He commented, "this is something I've been talking to both of those teams about," and that "hopefully [the next Mario and Zelda] will feel newer and fresher than their most recent versions."
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Seems like it'll be a mix of new and old. SHOCK!
 
BrandNew said:
not this again
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Well, hey, excuse me princess for not going through and fact-checking every single thing I hear on the internet or spending my entire life on NeoGAF in every single thread on the board so I know what's fake and what's not.
 
Rash said:
The general formula was like Mario 64, in terms of how there are multiple worlds and 120 stars.

But, my big point is that it's not just Mario in the Mushroom Kingdom/Peach's Castle again. It's Mario in space, with a bunch of awesome concepts based around gravity. The creativity in an outer space setting is off the scale, and I think sticking to a more traditional design would've limited EAD Tokyo to a much greater extent.

I'm not talking about breaking from general formulas. In terms of Zelda, Majora's Mask was a copy-and-past of OOT's gameplay, but it did something completely different as well, and turned out to be an awesome and memorable game for it. Wind Waker is a game much more appreciated now than it was back then for what it did different from OOT in terms of style and presentation, even though the game followed a basic "beat three temples, get Master Sword, beat more temples, go to Ganon's Tower" model.

Twilight Princess mixes things up a little bit by not having a young version of Link, but the structure is still quite similar to OOT overall. The game felt like a better-designed OOT, and not much more. I enjoyed it, but I can admit how "safe" the game was. It just didn't have anything on the same lines as Mario Galaxy's space setting or gravity mechanic, Majora's Mask's time or mask mechanics, or Wind Waker's awesome style, story, and presentation.
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I love LOVE Mario Galaxy, but one could easily brush it off as 'Mario 64 in space'. It has the usual Mario cast, a hub world, same Mario 64 structure of repeating several of the same worlds, heck it even has the same BOSS structure where you fight Bowser 3 times throughout the game.

TP has the wolf form, which if you don't like is one thing, but brushing it off cause one could say 'TP is just OoT with a wolf' doesn't really cut it imo. Does it really matter that TP's location takes place in a land called 'Hyrule', even though geographically it is nothing like OoT's Hyrule? I swear, if the master sword was removed, and Hyrule was changed to a land called 'Retardia', TP would probably be remembered 10 times as fondly.


This seems to further bolster my assumption that what GAF considers a 'good' Zelda has the following priority list:

1. Story (and by 'story' I mean 'making sure there's no master sword after beating 3 temples')
2. Unique fresh Art Style (and by 'unique fresh art style' I mean the cel shaded style that's been used in 6 games and counting)
3. Gameplay


Going by this, you would think that PH would be the average Zelda spinoff fan's wet dream, since it achieves the first 2. Funny how that works out.

I cry for this generation. Galaxy has the same mechanics (jumping, platforming, ect.) but its gameplay (what manner the mechanics are used) is drastically different than previous entries in the series. Some stars have more in common with previous efforts than others but in general there is enough of a difference to call it fresh.

Thats is unless you're on of those reductionists who see everything in such broad strokes that everything can be everything. Its got Mario and jumping, same difference.
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Heh. It truly is interesting to me to see that everyone has their own idea of what makes a game 'fresh'.
 
DjangoReinhardt said:
Unless Nintendo has a Mario Galaxy-esque evolution in store for the next console Zelda, there is no need for it to exist. The world doesn't need Zelda 16: Same Old Shit any more than it needs another dozen Terminator movies made over the next 15 years.
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image.jpg


What the fuck, dude?
 
Enduin said:
My ideal Zelda would be one that is inspired by the original Zelda concept art by Katsuya Terada and is focused on letting the player truly explore a mysterious but vast and rich world and to create connections with that world and the people in it that can and will be built upon in subsequent sequels in the series.
Click to expand...

I think part of what needs to be done is to get rid of this whole temple with puzzles structure and make it more...organic. TP did this well with some stages like the Yeti Mansion and Arbiters Grounds but it really needs to be expanded to the whole game. Link should explore places which happen to have puzzles not these huge structures clearly built to be huge puzzles...

Take for instance the change from the hookshot to longshot. Instead of there simply being natural surfaces that could be hooked on you have preset targets. I want to have to figure out which surfaces I can hook onto, not have them blatantly obvious and placed in front of me
 
If Retro is making anything remotely Zelda related, it'll probably be along the lines of Link's Crossbow Training rather than an actual full fledged main line Zelda. Miyamoto mentioned last year that the Zelda team was reassembled, afterall.
 
I think Zelda's potential is damn near tapped out.

Not sure where they could really go with this because Spirit Tracks doesn't seem that inspired of an idea as it is "Hey it's Link and he's on a train!"
 
The Experiment said:
I think Zelda's potential is damn near tapped out.

Not sure where they could really go with this because Spirit Tracks doesn't seem that inspired of an idea as it is "Hey it's Link and he's on a train!"
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So how would you rate Spirit Tracks on a 1-10 scale, since you already know everything about the game and have played it? MM was probably first described as Zelda with masks...
 
Zoramon089 said:
I think part of what needs to be done is to get rid of this whole temple with puzzles structure and make it more...organic. TP did this well with some stages like the Yeti Mansion and Arbiters Grounds but it really needs to be expanded to the whole game. Link should explore places which happen to have puzzles not these huge structures clearly built to be huge puzzles...

Take for instance the change from the hookshot to longshot. Instead of there simply being natural surfaces that could be hooked on you have preset targets. I want to have to figure out which surfaces I can hook onto, not have them blatantly obvious and placed in front of me
Click to expand...

Few things about this post.

I think you're right in that Zelda temple design needs to be more organic, but I thought Twilight Princess did this very well. Other than the Forest Temple and the Water Temple, every other one had a purpose to exist in its surroundings more so than just "a temple." Mines in Death Mountain. A prison for the deadly criminals. A mansion in the snowy mountain terrain. An old area of worship that connects to the heavens. A city in the sky. A city in the Twilight Realm. Hyrule Castle. Really, Twilight Princess took a huge step in the right direction in terms of temple design.

Also, the longshot acted EXACTLY like the hookshot. You could hook onto targets, gratings, vines, wood, etc. They both did the same thing. Only the longshot did it much better; adjustment of slack, dual longshots, wall-jumping, etc.
 
Zoramon089 said:
I think part of what needs to be done is to get rid of this whole temple with puzzles structure and make it more...organic. TP did this well with some stages like the Yeti Mansion and Arbiters Grounds but it really needs to be expanded to the whole game. Link should explore places which happen to have puzzles not these huge structures clearly built to be huge puzzles...

Take for instance the change from the hookshot to longshot. Instead of there simply being natural surfaces that could be hooked on you have preset targets. I want to have to figure out which surfaces I can hook onto, not have them blatantly obvious and placed in front of me
Click to expand...

Totally agree, Ive posted the same desires in almost every Zelda thread. Creating a continuous plot will make the series feel important again for many cause despite using the same or similar gameplay mechanics and structures the game will still be building off the experiences and connections from the previous games. But even then getting rid of the temple structure that has been used in Zelda since the original is probably second on my list. I want an open and organic world without set structures specifically designed and placed in that world just for me to go to to navigate linearly to a final large room to fight a boss.

I want to be in a believable world where its not totally apparent that I am in a temple or dungeon type situation. And I want my actions to count for something more than just a tally mark in the games progression, I want retaliation and consequences for my actions instead of this domino effect the games have had where you just go from one temple to the other until you find Ganon. I only want a handful of items, maybe 4 or 5 that are introduced very early on and are used extensively in all aspects of the game and are modified and improved throughout it in order for us to experiment with them and master them.

This is something that Mario has always done well. There is a limited and simple set of moves that Mario has but the player becomes intimately familiar with them to the point where they can preform extraordinary moves and solve extremely complex puzzles. I want Zelda to do that and not throw a dozen items at us throughout the game with limited use.

Thats what I want in the next Zelda, a large and vast world that I am thrust into and am pushed through with a simple but meaningful plot and small cast of characters presented in the look and tone of the series original concept art. A world I can really dig into and explore with real rewards for experimenting with items in combat, exploration and puzzle solving. Theres about a zero chance for that to happen but one can dream.
 
I don't get the Zelda fatigue complaints either tbh. Granted, I seem to be way more lenient at games in general than most people here, but it's not like Madden and the like.
 
BrandNew said:
Also, the longshot acted EXACTLY like the hookshot. You could hook onto targets, gratings, vines, wood, etc. They both did the same thing. Only the longshot did it much better; adjustment of slack, dual longshots, wall-jumping, etc.
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Oh, don't get me mistaken, the longshot/double longshot is VASTLY superior to the hookshot, it's just that I don't remember there being targets for you to hook onto in Oot, it was always vines, gratings, etc (I could be mistaken, haven't played that game for a number of years).

I'd welcome the double long shot back I just wish the targets weren't so obvious. Seeing circular targets conveniently placed on walls was weird. Make them weirdly textured areas or something not so obvious

Enduin said:
I only want a handful of items, maybe 4 or 5 that are introduced very early on and are used extensively in all aspects of the game and are modified and improved throughout it in order for us to experiment with them and master them.
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This too. Maybe not as few as 4/5 but I definitely agree that Link just needs a few "key items", bomb, boomerang, hook/long shot, bow & arrow and for them to be used in unique ways and upgraded (of course he's still need another 4 or so new items unique to the game). I feel TP started doing this with bomb arrows but it could go further. I'm sure they could have allowed use of other one handed items while hanging from the claw shot
 
No.

Spirit Tracks is coming out this year. Next year Nintendo will show the new console Zelda, to some fanfare*.

*Unless, of course, they give it the reboot or return to its root concept that it needs. In that case there would be much fanfare.





Though I'm almost never correct in predicting what Nintendo will do.
 
Dascu said:
Fuck, now I want to play Twilight Princess again.
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Me too.

Regarding the talk of "organic" temples, I have to say I didn't realize the ice mansion was a dungeon until I was fighting the boss :lol
 
Ysiadmihi said:
Me too.

Regarding the talk of "organic" temples, I have to say I didn't realize the ice mansion was a dungeon until I was fighting the boss :lol
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So true, I thought it was the most unexpected dungeon design and execution in all of the 3D Zelda games. :lol

Also,
NOT TAKE MIRROR!
 
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