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[CoG]

This. People who complain about the price need to check CAG more often.

The problem is with charging any principle for online gaming, not the actual price. When you buy a game like MW2 on the 360 without having Gold, you're only getting 1/2 a game (or maybe 1/4 game in that case :lol). You kind of have to have Gold to get the full value out of the 360 and its games. Kind of silly.

 

[Phantast2k]

Why, exactly?

I'm genuinely curious. I only own a 360 so obviously it and its games are my preference, but I certainly don't hate the PS3. Such a sentiment seems so ludicrous to me. And it results in this kind of thread, where the only possible result could be tacit denigration of anyone who DOES pay for Live. All these threads could easily be renamed:
Pay For Live, What Are You...Stupid?[...]

As Galactic Fork already said, that's not really happening itt. You seem to be oversensitive in this regard which might have something to do with "I only own a 360".
However I think I can explain what makes people say stuff like "Pay For Live, What Are You...Stupid?". It's similar to when tech-savy folk hates on people who pay to have their wifi set up or even pay to have their hdtv connected to their consoles. Or when win users hate on mac users for being to stupid to deal with win hence paying the premium price.
They generally see it as wasteful spending. And w. s. is always looked down upon.

 

[krypt0nian]

me.

Well stop it, you dirtybird.

 

[Noshino]

I don't see why somebody not personally using Gold automatically makes it an insult to those who do. Actually a majority of the responses haven't insulted those who buy it at all, they merely reflected their own habits as gamers. What I find interesting is that you are seeing it that way. Gold doesn't make the 360, there are plenty of offline games that people can enjoy. Why does not wanting live suddenly make the 360 useless? Since that's what you're getting at. Not everybody plays online games.

Its funny, because throughout the thread it seems that the only ones getting upset are the ones that do pay for it...

This. People who complain about the price need to check CAG more often.

The complain is not that it is too expensive, but rather that you have to pay for it.

However I think I can explain what makes people say stuff like "Pay For Live, What Are You...Stupid?". It's similar to when tech-savy folk hates on people who pay to have their wifi set up or even pay to have their hdtv connected to their consoles. Or when win users hate on mac users for being to stupid to deal with win hence paying the premium price.
They generally see it as wasteful spending. And w. s. is always looked down upon.

I don't really think that's the case here. In those cases you have different choices, one more convenient than the other, but at a premium price. With the 360, you don't, and people get pissed about that.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

As Galactic Fork already said, that's not really happening itt. You seem to be oversensitive in this regard which might have something to do with "I only own a 360".
However I think I can explain what makes people say stuff like "Pay For Live, What Are You...Stupid?". It's similar to when tech-savy folk hates on people who pay to have their wifi set up or even pay to have their hdtv connected to their consoles. Or when win users hate on mac users for being to stupid to deal with win hence paying the premium price.
They generally see it as wasteful spending. And w. s. is always looked down upon.

Not particularly. Just discussing a general and obvious trend across several threads.

 

[Yama]

I have both consoles, completely prefer the Sony brand through out though wouldn't use the term fanboy, too level headed. However this is what I use/used (don't turn it on much anymore) my 360 for:

At first, a decent party chat. However since getting my PSP GO, we all simply Skype. Much easier. So I can securely take that one off of the list.

As a Biohazard fan, DEAD RISING hit home and seeing as it never came to the PS3 (or any console in a good form), it gave the system some worth.

Until now, finally... the 360 was home to all of the RPG's I wanted to play. Luckily that trend is now dying, but it still has some points for ToV in my book.

Fighters. Yes, the controller sucks, but I have two arcade sticks and never play fighters on a controller anyway. The net coding seems better, I encounter less drops/lag and some of the games (MvC2) came out earlier and run better. Being a big fighter fan, this at least makes me turn on the console. Also, the only Virtua Fighter we have online. Version C or not...

PGR4. Was a huge PGR2 fan, PGR3 was decent and PGR4 brought it home again. For me at least.

Left4Dead series. Plain and simp, though I could play it on PC...

BIOHAZARD 5, it's superior on the 360 if I like it or not and Biohazard is my middle name. Not to mention there was a Biohazard LE console (US), so it won a few brownie points from me there.

I suppose I can list HALO 2 (played Halo 3 a bit, hated the MP. Inferior in every way to H2). While it was still popular I played it through B/C, though now I play on Vista.

Backwards Compatability. Mainly the Fatal Frame gams, the look and run fantastic on the 360. I'd own the console just for this.

So those are my reasons to turn on the console, however I have a ton more for the PS3, the 360 proves to have some worth in my collection. Ironically it's not for the typical games that people buy a 360 for, but that just shows their direction is little more broad now.

 

[Cheech]

I play Magic The Gathering on Xbox Live and I have met some of the most fun folks to talk to on that game. So in other words, yeah I have it and I think it's damn worth it.

It's weird, but that's a great game to play on Live. It's like a magnet for the most mature people Live has to offer.

Also, I'm hoping that the thread title change is somebody's NY resolution to keep Sony fanboys under control. I'm dreading this year with the ton of PS3 exclusives out of the chute, and then the inevitable FF13 comparison thread... *shudder*

 

[[Nintex]]

It's weird, but that's a great game to play on Live. It's like a magnet for the most mature people Live has to offer.

Also, I'm hoping that the thread title change is somebody's NY resolution to keep Sony fanboys under control. I'm dreading this year with the ton of PS3 exclusives out of the chute, and then the inevitable FF13 comparison thread... *shudder*

The Console Wars will be glorious and bloody this year.

 

[MechDX]

New year, same old stupid arguements!!

WOOHOO!!:lol

 

[truly101]

Going by the thread topic, I'm assuming there's some thinly veiled trolling in here somewhere. However, I have a 360 and pretty much never use my Xbox 360 gold subscription. But thats because I don't have any live friends and seldom play any multiplayer games. Same goes for the PS3 as well, I have like 4 friends. That being said, I love my 360 as much as my PS3.

 

[TriangularDuck]

Did not renew Gold. Definitely not worth the money, especially since they're cramming in stuff like Twitter and Facebook to try and justify the price.

Translation: Gold is not worth the money, especially because they're trying to add value to it. :lol :lol :lol

EDIT: I couldn't imagine not having Gold.

 

[Cheech]

5 years and you only have 500 achievement points? How is that even possible?

He probably reviews games for Eurogamer.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

Why, exactly?

I'm genuinely curious. I only own a 360 so obviously it and its games are my preference, but I certainly don't hate the PS3. Such a sentiment seems so ludicrous to me. And it results in this kind of thread, where the only possible result could be tacit denigration of anyone who DOES pay for Live. All these threads could easily be renamed:
Pay For Live, What Are You...Stupid?
Own A 360, What Are You...Stupid?
Enjoy Playing 360 Exclusives, What Are You...Stupid?

An OP can have the best intentions ever but on some level they have to know that all they're really doing is opening the floodgates for pages of "I wouldn't get Live for shit" or "The 360 just seems redundant to me".

Where does the hate come from? I know personally I have no inclination of starting a thread "Hey, If I Managed To Save Enough To Buy A PS3, Would There Be A Point?"

Because I would feel like I was trolling.

Yeah, I always wondered the same, because I can't really figure out why exactly would an individual hate a piece of plastic. I mean, is your life really that much fucked up that you start feeling so much emotionally attached to corporations who don't give a shit about you and their marketing ploys?

I, personally, don't like Microsoft, mostly because of their (IMO) monopolistic business practices, but I can't say I hate them or anything, because I know they are in all this for money and are just doing everything they can to make it. I can't say I like that, but you can't hate someone for that. Business is... business...

On the other hand, I actually regard Xbox quite highly (although I don't own an unit atm), mostly because it brought revolution to the console online gaming. Would I enjoy my Killzone 2 in the same way if MS didn't push Sony to develop a similar system? Maybe. But just maybe. Uncharted 2 mp? SOCOM? The list goes on and on. Healthy competition is very good and, if anything, MS really pushed the online space in consoles and for that we can all be thankful to them (at least I am).

 

[No_Style]

I've never paid for Live, I don't need it.

This is how I feel. I use the 360 for exclusives and single player multiplatform titles that have the technical edge.

 

[vazel]

Yeah, I always wondered the same, because I can't really figure out why exactly would an individual hate a piece of plastic. I mean, is your life really that much fucked up that you start feeling so much emotionally attached to corporations who don't give a shit about you and their marketing ploys?

It's about the experience provided and precedents set.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=19108205&postcount=218
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=19108220&postcount=223

I, personally, don't like Microsoft, mostly because of their (IMO) monopolistic business practices, but I can't say I hate them or anything, because I know they are in all this for money and are just doing everything they can to make it. I can't say I like that, but you can't hate someone for that. Business is... business...

lol well of course I don't actually seethe with hatred. Feel better if I use the word dislike over hatred? If things get bad enough I'll just stop gaming on current gen consoles altogether no big deal.

On the other hand, I actually regard Xbox quite highly (although I don't own an unit atm), mostly because it brought revolution to the console online gaming. Would I enjoy my Killzone 2 in the same way if MS didn't push Sony to develop a similar system? Maybe. But just maybe. Uncharted 2 mp? SOCOM? The list goes on and on. Healthy competition is very good and, if anything, MS really pushed the online space in consoles and for that we can all be thankful to them (at least I am).

Online was always going to be the future of consoles that started with the Dreamcast's built-in modem.

 

[fastford58]

Yeah, I always wondered the same, because I can't really figure out why exactly would an individual hate a piece of plastic. I mean, is your life really that much fucked up that you start feeling so much emotionally attached to corporations who don't give a shit about you and their marketing ploys?

I, personally, don't like Microsoft, mostly because of their (IMO) monopolistic business practices, but I can't say I hate them or anything, because I know they are in all this for money and are just doing everything they can to make it. I can't say I like that, but you can't hate someone for that. Business is... business...

On the other hand, I actually regard Xbox quite highly (although I don't own an unit atm), mostly because it brought revolution to the console online gaming. Would I enjoy my Killzone 2 in the same way if MS didn't push Sony to develop a similar system? Maybe. But just maybe. Uncharted 2 mp? SOCOM? The list goes on and on. Healthy competition is very good and, if anything, MS really pushed the online space in consoles and for that we can all be thankful to them (at least I am).

It seems that the advent of the slim selling well and the PS3 actually being viable from an average consumer standpoint has opened the floodgates for 360 trolling. I've seen it everywhere I visit.

Actually, GAF is amusing because of the strict trolling rules. The stealth trolls here are priceless.

On topic: I had gold for a long time, but I went back to school and became busy so MP games have been put to the wayside in favour of compelling SP experiences.

 

[vazel]

Stealth trolls being the ones that don't like the same things as you, right? Why don't you accuse people of being a fascist next.

 

[brain_stew]

What i love about the frequency of these kind of 360 threads and this must be the 4-5th in the last few days, is the same characters pop up again and again to tell us for the hundredth time why playing on Live or Xbox isn't for them.

Its probably more down to the fact that the 360 is just a really shitty deal these days. It always use to be the console I recommend to friends but I just can't do that these days. You could let the accessory and Live prices slide when the console was so much cheaper and it had such a better library of games compared to the alternatives but between the PS3 finally delivering on price and games (after faultering for so long), PC games becoming stupidly cheap through insnae DD deals coupled with excellent deals on hardware its become stuck between a rock and a hard place for me. The fact that it basically indisputably has the least amount of compelling exclusive content has more than a little something to do with it.

Its just the way it is really, Microsoft did a lot of things right at the start of this generation but their fervent desire to drive down costs and push up margins has made it a less and less compelling platform over time whilst competing platforms have upped their game. Steam and the PS3 weren't anywhere nearly as attractive 2 years ago as they are now, but they've been firing on all cylinders lately whilst the 360 has remained stagnant, the change in general attitude was thus inevitable.

Because of the way XBLA has evolved my 20GB drive has become pretty damn inadequate but fuck if I'm going to pay a 500% markup just so I can spend some more money. I've said it before but my copy of Halo 3 is basically useless online these days, to get back into the multiplayer I'd have to buy a compeltely new separate game and take up a yearly subscription, yeah no thanks. Its shit like that which sours people from the platform. That the God damn dashboard has become slow as treacle and stuffed with ads with no way of getting rid of them, doesn't help endear me to the thing either.

Fwiw, I didn't bother replacing my PS3 after it was stolen, so its not as if I'm heavily invested in that platform, but stack the two against each other these days and its very hard to put the 360 on top. Cheaper accessories + a more diverse library of exclusives + similar hardware pricing + free online + more packed in the box, make for a pretty convincing argument.

I do expect that things will get shook up in 2010 with MS pushing Natal though, so all it not lost.


I know I'll get a bunch of "lol" smileys and fanboy accusations thrown at me for in reply to this post, but whatever, I really don't care. I'm just calling it as I see it and giving the opinion of one launch buyer that has become disenfranchised with the platform. I'm not going to sell it or anything, if that matters at all.

 

[Guileless]

I had a 360 and live for a couple of years and have been sans both for a couple while console gaming on PS3. Warhawk is great and the UT3 timed exclusivity was too. But the dual shock just doesn't feel right for shooters so i am getting another 360 and will pay for live again.

 

[Fortinbras]

I prefer playing games on the 360 because of the controller. However I won't renew Live. Also the German marketplace sucks ass and Microsoft's efforts here are a complete joke. I don't care about Facebook or Twitter. What I care about is the fact that I'm not able to export screenshots from Forza 3 without restrictions to keep the image quality. I mean I pay for Live, Forza 3 is a Microsoft game. Is it too much to ask for better image quality If I'm not allowed to save the pics to a USB drive?

Since the good parts of Live (like last.fm) stay US only I really don't get the point in paying money for the service.

 

[Averon]

I see that 2010 is off to a great start. :lol

 

[brain_stew]

Translation: Gold is not worth the money, especially because they're trying to add value to it. :lol :lol :lol

EDIT: I couldn't imagine not having Gold.

Restricting access to garbage services that are free on every platform under the sun to Gold only members isn't "adding value" its insulting your fanbase. They need to start delivering eclusive gaming services that justify the subscription charge not superfluous social networking shit that can be accessed for free on any mobile phone or a netbook. Give me proper dedicated server support, cloud saves and free access to certain DD games and then I'll start taking notice. What actual new gaming features has a Gold subscription delivered that it didn't at launch? You're still paying for the bare minimum standard of online gaming and that's the problem, other services are delivering more for free, that's the problem with the subscription charge.

 

[rvy]

I have no Live.

 

[elrechazado]

Its probably more down to the fact that the 360 is just a really shitty deal these days.

So your response to the fact that there are multiple threads in the last few days with the same people saying over and over that they don't like xbl is because in the last few days they've all realized what a shitty deal gold is, and are somehow compelled to suddenly make multiple threads about it? Makes sense to me....if those people have keyboard diarrhea.

 

[Scooter]

Not wanting to pay for P2P online makes you a Sony fanboy. Don't forget, you heard it first from the butthurt mod who changed the thread title.

 

[MechDX]

Restricting access to garbage services that are free on every platform under the sun to Gold only members isn't "adding value" its insulting your fanbase. They need to start delivering eclusive gaming services that justify the subscription charge not superfluous social networking shit that can be accessed for free on any mobile phone or a netbook. Give me proper dedicated server support, cloud saves and free access to certain DD games and then I'll start taking notice.

There is dedicated server support, it is just up to the publisher to implement it. Just like other platforms.

"Free access to DD games"....yeah because on the PS3 these games are all free?:lol

 

[jjasper]

My decision to renew will pretty much be based on the Halo reach beta and if a friend of mine ends up getting Crackdown 2.

 

[Arpharmd B]

The mod wasn't neccesarily calling out the OP.

There are quite a few people saying they "didn't renew after 1 month free trial".

Well, IIRC there are no such things as 1 month free trials, only 48 hour cards. Or at least, I've never seen one and I've had the console for 4+ years, primary console etc.

 

[elrechazado]

the butthurt mod

aww, someone is sad

also

 

[Kadey]

Thread title. :lol

 

[elrechazado]

The mod wasn't neccesarily calling out the OP.

There are quite a few people saying they "didn't renew after 1 month free trial".

Well, IIRC there are no such things as 1 month free trials, only 48 hour cards. Or at least, I've never seen one and I've had the console for 4+ years, primary console etc.

1 month free trial is what you get when you buy the console and sign up for silver. Every owner of a new 360 gets it.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

it expires this month, i refuse to pay full price for it.

so barring any 12 month card deals I won't have XBL.

They've had numerous deals, even lately, where one year is $30....

 

[brain_stew]

So your response to the fact that there are multiple threads in the last few days with the same people saying over and over that they don't like xbl is because in the last few days they've all realized what a shitty deal gold is, and are somehow compelled to suddenly make multiple threads about it? Makes sense to me....if those people have keyboard diarrhea.

Not Gold specifically but the platform as a whole. I'll fully admit it was the best value gaming platform at the start of the generation, that's why I bought it at launch afterall, but it hasn't evolved since then whereas competitors have stepped up their game. You can't stand still and not expect to be overtaken, what I'd like is a response to other platforms becoming more competitive, be that by making online multiplayer free or actually delivery genuine gaming features for that subscription charge, heck even sensible accessory pricing would do. Give me something to get excited about the platform again, just like Valve has been doing for their Steam platform in 2009, which is the gift that keeps on giving.

 

[NIGHT-]

XBL is pretty fucking awesome. I will gladly pay $40 dollars a year for it if the alternative is PSN.

 

[gofreak]

So your response to the fact that there are multiple threads in the last few days with the same people saying over and over that they don't like xbl is because in the last few days they've all realized what a shitty deal gold is, and are somehow compelled to suddenly make multiple threads about it? Makes sense to me....if those people have keyboard diarrhea.

I think he's talking about general 'mood' around 360 on the boards, not just Live. Or apparent general mood. I wouldn't say there's a general negative tone but it has risen to the fore in a number of threads in the last while.

But these things are cyclical. Ask any 'PS3 fan' circa 2006/2007.

I think he's right though about value/percieved value fueling any poor sentiment. It sure as heck fuelled poor sentiment around PS3 for a very long time. Was often used and recognised as justification for practically any negativity or trolling.

 

[Red Blaster]

Paying for Live forces me to use my 360.

 

[Arpharmd B]

Between Gears 2 being a broken piece of crap online , Halo ODST not having matchmaking, and Netflix coming to PS3 with no extra cost, i'm Silver only now.

This thread is pretty redonkulous and I'm pretty sure you will not be coming back to read this, but I'll post it anyway. Gears 2 post patch is pretty damn good. I didn't believe it myself, I traded up my Gears 2 copy last year because the online was soo beyond shit, but off a friends request (who swore the netcode was good), I got the GOTY edition and... he was right. It plays really great, matchmaking is quick and best of all they took out the smoke grenade knock-down bullshit. People actually use machine gun and play correctly! Seriously the latest patch is some kind of miracle (and how the freaking game should have been playing DAY 1).

 

[Scooter]

aww, someone is sad

The only sad people in this thread are the ones bitching and calling other posters names because they dared to mention that they don't want to renew their Live accounts.

 

[Sipowicz]

wait, this guy is a sony fanboy?

that explains a lot

 

[Haunted]

Oh we're posting our PS360 IDs now? me too me too!

 

[zombieshavebrains]

I've owned a 360 for about 2 years now. Had xbox live to play FIFA 09 and halo with friends. Haven't had live gold for about half a year now. Bought a PS3 that could do all the things i was using the 360 for (Netflix, DVD/Blu-ray, Winamp remote) for free.

 

[Archie]

My gold account runs out at the end of January and I don't plan to renew. I don't play games online anymore and use my 360 as a Rock Band and Trials HD box.

Sorta off topic, but does PSN bombard you with advertisements? (I don't own a PS3). I find it annoying that people play 50 dollars a year and are still forced to live with a flood of ads on the dashboard.

 

[brain_stew]

There is dedicated server support, it is just up to the publisher to implement it. Just like other platforms.

"Free access to DD games"....yeah because on the PS3 these games are all free?:lol

Sure, and the cost is entirely on the publishers back, none of that subscription fee goes towards facilitating dedicated server support, I don't think it'd too much to ask for the subscription to subsidise the cost of publishers setting up dedicated servers. They don't even deliver dedicated servers in their own games, when


As for the second point, well actually, that was one of the touted features of a potential PSN subscription fee and its precisely the right sort of thing that would make that fee justifiable. On the PC I can pay $60 for a years access to over a 1000 games (including many recent releases like Trine and UT3), so I don't see why a $50 fee can't give me a access to a dozen back catalogue XBLA on constant rotation.

 

[D4Danger]

Not Gold specifically but the platform as a whole. I'll fully admit it was the best value gaming platform at the start of the generation, that's why I bought it at launch afterall, but it hasn't evolved since then whereas competitors have stepped up their game. You can't stand still and not expect to be overtaken, what I'd like is a response to other platforms becoming more competitive, be that by making online multiplayer free or actually delivery genuine gaming features for that subscription charge, heck even sensible accessory pricing would do. Give me something to get excited about the platform again, just like Valve has been doing for their Steam platform in 2009, which is the gift that keeps on giving.

come on man :lol

Valve have spent the last 2 years copying almost every feature of XBL. Everyone has for that matter.

And to say XBL hasn't evolved is just beyond a joke. You either didn't use it in 2005 or don't use it now.

 

[Cartman86]

I pay for it, and I use it quite a bit to play with friends etc. I ultimately have no real problem paying 50 a year for it.

 

[brain_stew]

XBL is pretty fucking awesome. I will gladly pay $40 dollars a year for it if the alternative is PSN.

What is it exactly that PSN lacks that makes it so poor? Genuine question. I had no issues in my short experience with it, for all intents and purposes it was basically the same thing as Xbox Live at a fundamental level, maybe missing some extra fluff. Actually come to think of it, there was a real commitment to dedicated server support for first party titles, so if anything the core experience was better.

 

[Woo-Fu]

XBL is pretty fucking awesome I will gladly pay $40 dollars a year for it if the alternative is PSN.

There is no alternative. Live won't help you play Uncharted 2 MP and PSN won't help you play Halo 3 MP.

I'm not a fan of Microsoft's tax on multiplayer, fortunately the last time I needed to pay it was for Gears 2 and my interest in Gears2 waned before my free month of Live Gold did. 360 exclusives---particularly ones that I'm interested in buying---being rarer then hens teeth nowadays, I probably won't need Live Gold again.

End of November I got rid of most of my 360 stuff and used the proceeds to get a new DS Lite to replace my old one. I still have access to a 360 and had some fun playing Assassins Creed 2 on it just a couple weeks back.

 

[Sydle]

Love my Live.

I don't. I used to, but my credit card expired and MS have basically made it impossible for me to switch. I've literally rung up ready to sign up my number and pay them monies. But apparently because the old one was expired, my Xbox Live account is suspended. So its offline and will stay that way. Will probably try homebrew coding with it since Imma like to make the same crap 2d shooters on anything I can.

They tried doing this to me, too. I told the rep that is was unacceptable and to forward me to her manager immediately. Her tone changed and then it took about 2 minutes to sort out. I shouldn't have had to go through that discussion just to renew my account, so I definitely think their customer service sucks.

The mod wasn't neccesarily calling out the OP.

There are quite a few people saying they "didn't renew after 1 month free trial".

Well, IIRC there are no such things as 1 month free trials, only 48 hour cards. Or at least, I've never seen one and I've had the console for 4+ years, primary console etc.

If you're new to the service (or new to 360?) then I believe the first 30 days are free.

 

[Warm Machine]

I just keep thinking about how expensive it must be for MS and Sony for that manner to run the servers that keep their services afloat. MS costs must be far more as there are more consoles out there and likely more people playing online at any moment. $60 tops is worth it for the infrastructure that is pretty damn stable.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I'm sorry guys, all of this is my fault.

Forgive me? <3