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Jeff Grubb: Devs Fawning over PS5. Haven't heard the same praise for XSX, but heard nothing bad

NoMoChokeSJ

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Agreed. What Microsoft is failing to capitalize on is showing people why their console is more powerful (in theoretical Teraflops, it is). Telling people they don't understand 120 FPS, and having no XSX exclusives at launch is not a good way to get your message across. Maybe their July event will change the perception? In comparison, Sony have been relatively quiet.
Seems like a double standards that MS has to prove something but Sony stays quiet and the fanboys gush. Neither company has shown why their console is a generational leap. And for me I am less concerned about sub-standard previous gen exclusives that get bumped up to a new gen exclusive. So much is rhetoric driven on these forums. With no E3 and the showcasing still in the future it seems awful early to paint either console as a failure or success.
 

cyber69

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Seems like a double standards that MS has to prove something but Sony stays quiet and the fanboys gush. Neither company has shown why their console is a generational leap. And for me I am less concerned about sub-standard previous gen exclusives that get bumped up to a new gen exclusive. So much is rhetoric driven on these forums. With no E3 and the showcasing still in the future it seems awful early to paint either console as a failure or success.
There is no double standard here. Not sure if you're aware of all the SSD memes regarding the PS5. Sony definitely has to prove their design choices are true to what they claimed in the "Road to PS5" video. Similarly, Microsoft has to show why 12 Teraflops matters.
 

NoMoChokeSJ

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There is no double standard here. Not sure if you're aware of all the SSD memes regarding the PS5. Sony definitely has to prove their design choices are true to what they claimed in the "Road to PS5" video. Similarly, Microsoft has to show why 12 Teraflops matters.
I'm well aware of the ssd memes. I also read through the entire Velocity architechture thread. There is definitely skepticism when MS claims are a concern. In fact a long standing history of this on GAF makes it pretty hard to debate. Beyond that, neither company has shown anything that warrants much enthusiasm, IMO.
 

Md Ray

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I mean is no one going to address the reality that Sony's SSD can just be removed from the system and replaced with a PC M.2 drive? I mean you're removing this crazy custom SSD that only Sony could ever dream of creating and replacing with an off the shelf part, and it will work just fine replacing it entirely, and I'm supposed to take all this off the wall PR seriously?
Huh? You can't remove PS5's custom SSD, or replace it entirely. That is false. The sole purpose of supporting M.2 drive on PS5 is to facilitate storage expansion. There's a separate bay in the PS5 to add the commercial M.2 drive (approved by Sony) to expand upon the existing 825 GB storage. And PS5's custom SSD supports 6 priority levels, whereas PC M.2 SSD supports only 2 priority levels, so these commercial M.2 SSDs need to be a bit faster than PS5's custom SSD in order to make up for the lack of priority levels so that games installed on that M.2 SSD don't run into some kind of issues.
 
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NoMoChokeSJ

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Huh? You can't remove PS5's custom SSD, or replace it entirely. That is false. The sole purpose of supporting M.2 drive on PS5 is to facilitate storage expansion. There's a separate bay in the PS5 to add the commercial M.2 drive (approved by Sony) to expand upon the existing 825 GB storage. And PS5's custom SSD supports 6 priority levels, whereas PC M.2 SSD supports only 2 priority levels, so these commercial M.2 SSDs need to be a bit faster than PS5's custom SSD in order to make up for the lack of priority levels so that games installed on that M.2 SSD don't run into some kind of issues.
Wonder how that is going to work. If the ssd in the PS5 is on a level of its own, how will aftermarket storage affect performance?
 

killatopak

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Wonder how that is going to work. If the ssd in the PS5 is on a level of its own, how will aftermarket storage affect performance?
Sony themselves will certify if the aftermarket SSD is equal or above the performance of the PS5 SSD. They will take into account the lower priority levels of those SSDs.

How it will affect games if it’s performance is significantly higher than PS5 SSD speeds, nobody knows but at least that will make compatibility with any kind of upgrade like a PS5 Pro a lot easier.
 

itsjustJEFF

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I suggest people start listening to Dev's and not Playstation/Xbox marketing bullet points. If you really want to look it up you'll find people praising both. They're well built systems. So what if some devs are liking the PS5's architecture more? Does that hurt your ego? Does it make you feel bad :messenger_persevering: They took two different approaches, what did you think was going to happen?

Also, does it really matter if either one of these consoles will have games that "have slightly better resolution" or "more triangles on the screen" or "REAL Raytracing" Is your life gonna suck if it's your console? I had a PS2. I accepted that the Xbox had way better graphics. I had a damn PS3. The Xbox360 had better looking games at the beginning of that generation. In the end did it really matter to me? Nope, not one bit, but then I again I'm not participating in the fanboy wars. Get over it you big babies.
 

Md Ray

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Wonder how that is going to work. If the ssd in the PS5 is on a level of its own, how will aftermarket storage affect performance?
Sony themselves will certify if the aftermarket SSD is equal or above the performance of the PS5 SSD. They will take into account the lower priority levels of those SSDs.

How it will affect games if it’s performance is significantly higher than PS5 SSD speeds, nobody knows but at least that will make compatibility with any kind of upgrade like a PS5 Pro a lot easier.
What killatopak killatopak said. ^^

Right now Sony is benchmarking as many aftermarket M.2 drives as possible in various ways, as well as doing compatibility tests to make sure those M.2 drive's architecture isn't too drastically different for the games to handle. Once the testing is done, they'll let us know as to which drives will physically fit in that dedicated M.2 bay, and which drives have benchmarked appropriately high enough to be comparable to PS5's custom SSD. So until then, we're told to hold off on that M.2 SSD purchase.
 
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Eliciel

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is the "No." referring to a potential Monetary Agreement or is it referring to anything else? Or did Tim Sweeney want to create this uncertainty what the "No." is referring to on purpose? Would it be the same for XBOX? If there is no agreement then why didn't they show it more neutral then for "ALL PLATTFORMS"? Simply, because it is actually running on a PS5 or is there more to it? Assuming that they are NOT in an agreement to represent this on a PS5 why do they restrict it being shown on a Playstation 5 and why do they stress it being run on a PS5??
An incredibly subtle answer with a variety of potential explanation. The kind of intangibility that Tim wanted to create I guess?

A lead that we shouldn't miss out following, because, hey, what else do we do until the 12th June (allegedly)???
 
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geordiemp

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is the "No." referring to a potential Monetary Agreement or is it referring to anything else? Or did Tim Sweeney want to create this uncertainty what the "No." is referring to on purpose? Would it be the same for XBOX? If there is no agreement then why didn't they show it more neutral then for "ALL PLATTFORMS"? Simply, because it is actually running on a PS5 or is there more to it? Assuming that they are NOT in an agreement to represent this on a PS5 why do they restrict it being shown on a Playstation 5 and why do they stress it being run on a PS5??
An incredibly subtle answer with a variety of potential explanation. The kind of intangibility that Tim wanted to create I guess?

A lead that we shouldn't miss out following, because, hey, what else do we do until the 12th June (allegedly)???
I think you know the answer, for politcs and NDA tim cant say Ps5 is just plain better can he, but he likes to play around that, and done it again already...below...

See the latest from PC people pushing the super fast PC SSD, he is brutal. Its not about SSD speed only, there are things called latency and bloated api abstraction layers that people just do not get at all its hilarious.






 
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RaySoft

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I think you know the answer, for politcs and NDA tim cant say Ps5 is just plain better can he, but he likes to play around that, and done it again already...below...

See the latest from PC people pushing the super fast PC SSD, he is brutal. Its not about SSD speed only, there are things called latency and bloated api abstraction layers that people just do not get at all its hilarious.






PC "master race" elitist are probably among some of the worst offenders at the numbers-game too. They just can't accept that something else may be better. In their defence, tho' it's probably due to lack of experience in that field;-)
 
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I also read through the entire Velocity architechture thread. There is definitely skepticism when MS claims are a concern.
I think the issue with that thread isn't what Microsoft said but how people are interpreting that information. I've seen claims from they it won't close the gap to Microsofts I/O solution is better than Sonys.

The issue is that Microsofts didn't really explain the tech as well as Mark did which is why there's so many debates over it.
 

Trueblakjedi

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I dont know exactly what did MS (Im not in detail of velocity engine), but Sony did also way to process this data outside of CPU. So they basically did highway from SSD to GPU(CPU) memory. I think MS did similar thing but I dont know how much CPU is involved.
CPU can be entirely bypassed as well.
 
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Trueblakjedi

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I’m throwing in the towel. Sorry Xbros, PS5 is just more exciting to me. Don’t care about the slight resolution advantage for XSX. Rich, detailed worlds is what I long for. I will also feast on Sony’s PS4 favorites that I’ve missed, on the cheap!
The issue is what makes you think that rich detailed seamless worlds aren't on the menu for XSX? Also what makes you think the advantages are slight? (I'm not a resolution snob by any means)

I myself am looking forward to PS5 in order to play the PS4 gems I missed out on this gen.
 

LordOfChaos

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Wonder how that is going to work. If the ssd in the PS5 is on a level of its own, how will aftermarket storage affect performance?
I imagine since the IO complex is on the SoC level, you retain most of the magic. The handling of decompression in hardware, the DMAC, the SRAM cache, the offloaded check-ins and so on are all still there with your third party M.2 drive, the drive just has to offer fast consistent performance.

If you're familiar with the Apple world, it's like the T2, which in models with removable flash sticks (iMac Pro, Mac Pro), the T2 remains on the system board, the flash is just dumb fast flash with the right number of lanes and so on, and that's all Sony really needs from a third party drive, except in this case it'll come with another controller. They also ask for a bit faster than the internal drive to cover less than 12 channel DMA and priority levels I guess.
 
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Handy Fake

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I imagine since the IO complex is on the SoC level, you retain most of the magic. The handling of decompression in hardware, the DMAC, the SRAM cache, the offloaded check-ins and so on are all still there with your third party M.2 drive, the drive just has to offer fast consistent performance.

If you're familiar with the Apple world, it's like the T2, which in models with removable flash sticks (iMac Pro, Mac Pro), the T2 remains on the system board, the flash is just dumb fast flash, and that's all Sony really needs from a third party drive, except in this case it'll come with another controller.
I watched through the Cerny talk again and the Chirno (sp?) video too, and from what I can gatherrrrr...

The expansion SSD slot ties directly to the improved IO, so that in itself isn't an issue. The only issue is aftermarket drives only have 4 (as I recall, possibly lower) priority levels so to account for that, aftermarket SSDs have to be 7gb-ish to have time for the IO to sort the reduced priority levels into the internal standard six.

EDIT:

"We can hook up a drive with only two priority levels, definitely, but our custom I/O unit has to arbitrate the extra priorities - rather than the M.2 drive's flash controller - and so the M.2 drive needs a little extra speed to take care of issues arising from the different approach," says Cerny. "That commercial drive also needs to physically fit inside the bay we created in PS5 for M.2 drives. Unlike internal hard drives, there's unfortunately no standard for the height of an M.2 drive, and some M.2 drives have giant heat sinks - in fact, some of them even have their own fans."
 
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