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Joker ReviewS: Masterpiece Level

#Phonepunk#

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The endless whining about incels only makes me want to see this more and more.

Alienation is a real thing yet u see so many people basically doubling down “we need more alienation” so fuck incels and fuck people who feel alienated I guess let’s just openly taunt these people who we fear for being super dangerous lol. What a clown world solution.

Looking forward to another 0% elitist critics 90% audience movie.
 
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Movie was damn good in every conceivable way. Sure as shit is beautiful to look at too. Not anywhere near as gruesome as that other thread about the leaked clips lead me to believe. Phoenix was damn brilliant too. And I love the soundtrack.

Speaking of which, does anyone have links to those leaked clips? I'm curious to see what they are now that I've seen the fil1m.
No links and they're bad quality anyways, here's what the violent ones were...

The clips available include him shooting Robert DeNiro's character and stabbing someone to death in I think his apartment who's talking about keeping their stories straight, there's a dwarf witnessing this second one, we found them disturbing and hardcore for how real they were, not necessarily how gruesome.
 

brap

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Movie was damn good in every conceivable way. Sure as shit is beautiful to look at too. Not anywhere near as gruesome as that other thread about the leaked clips lead me to believe. Phoenix was damn brilliant too. And I love the soundtrack.

Speaking of which, does anyone have links to those leaked clips? I'm curious to see what they are now that I've seen the fil1m.
 

sol_bad

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Thanks guys

This is about the clips so don't read if you don't want to spoil.
Both clips are towards the end of the movie, it's actually a shame that they would spoil those 2 scenes. Knowing what happens to DeNiro before it happens will now have less impact because the movie makes you think Joker will do something else while on the talk show and you're not sure if he will or won't or what the fuck is going to happen in that scene.
 

jadedm17

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Okay, a lot of fun.... Slow to burn but that final act packs a punch. (And with sol_bad I do wish the trailers didn't give away so much end-game beats.)

Worth the money.

Bad : A lot of dramatic background music. It gets old personally.
Weird :
Why are we setting up anything in the Bat's universe? It's a fun nod but Joker is it's own thing, we're not gonna get .... ANYONE from that universe in a sequel, would we? I can't see it happening so I personally found it silly and pointless., more of a wink that anything valuable to Joker's arch or the story at hand.
 

Nikana

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Okay, a lot of fun.... Slow to burn but that final act packs a punch. (And with sol_bad I do wish the trailers didn't give away so much end-game beats.)

Worth the money.

Bad : A lot of dramatic background music. It gets old personally.
Weird :
Why are we setting up anything in the Bat's universe? It's a fun nod but Joker is it's own thing, we're not gonna get .... ANYONE from that universe in a sequel, would we? I can't see it happening so I personally found it silly and pointless., more of a wink that anything valuable to Joker's arch or the story at hand.
I think WB is just waiting to see how things go at this point are too afraid to announce anything long term after the Batman v Superman and Justice League mishap. The cut to the Wayne family being murdered and then again to young Bruce feels way too deliberate for it to not have any shared universe implications.
 
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sol_bad

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I think WB is just waiting to see how things go at this point are too afraid to announce anything long term after the Batman v Superman and Justice League mishap. The cut to the Wayne family being murdered and then again to young Bruce feels way too deliberate for it to not have any shared universe implications.
It was very weird and felt very forced. I mean, why the hell would the Waynes be walking around in a back alley when all these riots are happening because of Thomas. As amazing as the film is in my mind, it really is just about a man with a mental illness and the film could have been called anything.
 
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MayauMiao

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It was very weird and felt very forced. I mean, why the hell would the Waynes be walking around in a back alley when all these riots are happening because of Thomas.
Probably because of the riots on the streets and sidewalks, the Waynes thought it was safer to take the back alley which was empty when they first saw it. Made much more sense then the Waynes simply taking the back alley as shown in previous Batman movies.
 

sol_bad

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Probably because of the riots on the streets and sidewalks, the Waynes thought it was safer to take the back alley which was empty when they first saw it. Made much more sense then the Waynes simply taking the back alley as shown in previous Batman movies.
Them being in a car and being driven home while the riots are on would make more sense. Previous origin stories of the Wayne's murder haven't involved a city wide riot as far as I am aware.
 

MetalAlien

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Good movie. Not sure if they are actually going to run with this story or if it's a one off. Either way good movie and an original spin on the Joker. A bit hard to tell what's really happening and what is just in his head but multiple viewing should help that.

Kinda reminds me of Brightburn. Just this really out there take on things that strangely enough works!

EDIT oh and they were doing car searches at the Drive In (they never do that). Not sure what they were looking for though since I had my service pistol with me and they didn't seem to mind at all...lol
 
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sol_bad

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Good movie. Not sure if they are actually going to run with this story or if it's a one off. Either way good movie and an original spin on the Joker. A bit hard to tell what's really happening and what is just in his head but multiple viewing should help that.
Ending spoiler.
I was confused by the end scene in the asylum. Is it saying that the whole film was in his head? Was mostly everything real leading up to him being taken away by the police and he only imagined the ambulance hitting the police car and everyone cheering him on? Was the police car bonnet scene with the cheering crowd real and then it was a time jump to the asylum?
 

NutJobJim

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Off to see this tonight but am finding it difficult not to read the spoilers.
It's rare that I'm this excited for a film these days but I really can't wait for this.
 

MetalAlien

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Ending spoiler.
I was confused by the end scene in the asylum. Is it saying that the whole film was in his head? Was mostly everything real leading up to him being taken away by the police and he only imagined the ambulance hitting the police car and everyone cheering him on? Was the police car bonnet scene with the cheering crowd real and then it was a time jump to the asylum?
They always do that crap. Total Recall, Inception, Observe and Report. They think it makes it intriguing that the audience gets to decide what is real. Just lazy to me. Tell me a story, don't ask me to fill in the blanks.
 

Rock And Roll

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The critics fears the movie reflects more on them than the so called "incels", which is pretty much the vibe I get from the movie.
I got that from too. I got shades of Thomas Wayne being Trump and the protesters being the clueless people who don't even know what they're protesting about, just some vague shit. I'm not saying that's what the director was going for/implying but I do think the journalists saw a lot of themselves in the clown crowd and got offended.

Anyway, I saw it in theatres last night. I thought it was fantastic and better than Dark Knight. I'm not a comic book movie guy so this not being a traditional comic book movie made it much more enjoyable. The cinematography was gorgeous, I dug the score/soundtrack, the story and symbolism were well done and Joaquin was incredible. Highly recommend this movie to anyone who enjoys a good flick, not just comic book enthusiasts.
 

withincells

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I went to see the movie last night. A friend today asked me if the Joker was an incel, because that's what he heard from early reviews. I didn't know what he was talking about. He asked me if the Joker was a sexist and I was like...what?

You feel for him in the beginning because he's obviously mentally ill and suffers from a disability but this movie does not make the Joker a hero. You begin to see that he is a bad person and does some horrible things. You aren't rooting for him in the end.

It's by far DC's darkest movie and almost makes The Dark Knight seem tame in comparison. Jaoquin Phoenix should be a lock for an Oscar nom. The score deserves one too. It's an amazing film.
 

HeebieJeebies

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Great film, a splice of Taxi Driver and The King of Comedy (which I think is the GOAT acting performance by De Niro), only thing that irked me was the use of text to progress the plot, which I found too on the nose and used far too many times. Everything else was 10/10. Will probably watch it again at some point.
 
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NutJobJim

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I thought it was a brilliant performance from Phoenix and a well directed/shot movie but I also found it kind of uncomfortable viewing and not particularly faithful to the character from the comics.

I didn't find it uncomfortable because it's especially violent and I certainly didn't find it uncomfortable viewing because of any kind of 'poblematic message' bullshit. I found it uncomfortable simply because Phoenix plays the part of a person with severe mental illness so damn fucking well and severe mental illness is uncomfortable to watch in a person.

The film is just very bleak. There are no real jokes. There is no joy or happiness of any kind. It's just a bleak unsettling view into the mind of a dangerously mentally ill person with little/no support or help.

Maybe it's because it's an origin style movie but I also didn't really feel like this was The Joker that we know from the comics or have seen on screen previously.

This take does obviously share some superficial similarities with that character but rather than a manic agent of chaos who finds joy in murder and destruction, this version of The Joker comes across more like a tortured soul crying out for help. When he 'laughs' it sounds and looks more like crying and a man in pain.

I suppose that take does actually make a lot more sense but this character is very disturbing. Nicholson and Ledger were certainly far more 'likeable' in the role.

Overall I thought it was a brilliant film and performance but also not particularly enjoyable to watch. I didn't ever really feel like I was watching a film about The Joker either.
 

NahaNago

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I thought the movie was alright. I don't really get all the rave reviews. I thought Joaquin's performance was great and he made him really disturbing to see. I was expecting a lot more deaths in the movie based off the hubbub but was very minimal. It is pretty much just a more realistic version of Joker. I'd give the movie a rating of "B". It is pretty much a weak high budget artsy movie of the Joker. I have been thinking for a while that DC and Spiderman should focus on the villains more. Spiderman has so many villains and dc could easily make a lex Luthor , better cat woman, or mr. freeze, Just not this realistic artsy version but more of an over the top bloody kind.
 

Badenergytroll

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I hope they make other Batman villain films in this mold. I would love to see a "Riddler" or "Penguin" film with great actors playing the title characters. Hell, i would even be down with Arnold playing "Freeze".
 

Verdanth

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Really liked the dark and anarchic side the film shows and tells.

We all know it's just a movie, but there is a pretty real and solid message in it. And because of it, I don't think Hollywood will have the balls to give Joaquin Phoenix his goddamn Oscar. He will get the nomination only.

His performance is sublime, he really capture the Joker persona and the evolution of the character through out the movie is very well done.

Regarding the ending:

I prefer to assume most of the film really happened and he got busted in the end. Makes more sense in my head, while also making the impact on the viewer bigger in my opinion.
 
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sol_bad

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Reminder that critics are worthless.
Film critics are not worthless at all. Just because they don't always align with audience members doesn't make them worthless. I am someone that loves Rambo: First Blood and Joker.

I don't generally read actual reviews because I don't want my view or thoughts of a film tainted but I will look at aggregates on Rotten Tomaties, Metacritic and Letterboxd. As an example for myself, the trailers for Hustlers looked like absolute trash and hot garbage but due to the movvie having high critic ratings I was interested in seeing it and I was happy that I saw it. Sure the trailers made it seem much darker and more dramatic than the film actually is but it's still very entertaining with great actors and a good story.
 

Whitesnake

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Film critics are not worthless at all. Just because they don't always align with audience members doesn't make them worthless. I am someone that loves Rambo: First Blood and Joker.

I don't generally read actual reviews because I don't want my view or thoughts of a film tainted but I will look at aggregates on Rotten Tomaties, Metacritic and Letterboxd. As an example for myself, the trailers for Hustlers looked like absolute trash and hot garbage but due to the movvie having high critic ratings I was interested in seeing it and I was happy that I saw it. Sure the trailers made it seem much darker and more dramatic than the film actually is but it's still very entertaining with great actors and a good story.
Their sole job is to go see if movie’s good and write about it so the viewer at home knows if it is worth their time. Critics utterly fail in this regard, as they are swayed by things such as politics and financial gain. Look at the “rotten” reviews for Joker on RottenTomatoes. Every one is entirely about ideology and politics, very little to do with the actual quality of the film. Their opinion is now worth less than that of the average person.

With user review aggregation, critics have become obsolete. Why do I care what some yuppie glorified blogger thinks about a movie’s politics when I can get actual reviews from actual people?

Your single anecdote doesn’t really change this.
 
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MetalAlien

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Now that I thought about it more...

This movie definitely doesn't seem to be talking about alt-right incels. Seems more like Anifta crazies being inspired by the Joker killing the rich white dude.
 
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jadedm17

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I went to see the movie last night. A friend today asked me if the Joker was an incel, because that's what he heard from early reviews. I didn't know what he was talking about. He asked me if the Joker was a sexist and I was like...what?

You feel for him in the beginning because he's obviously mentally ill and suffers from a disability but this movie does not make the Joker a hero. You begin to see that he is a bad person and does some horrible things. You aren't rooting for him in the end.

It's by far DC's darkest movie and almost makes The Dark Knight seem tame in comparison. Jaoquin Phoenix should be a lock for an Oscar nom. The score deserves one too. It's an amazing film.
I rooted for him in the end.
And the music playing too much was my only real complaint : "eerie background music oooohhh" I get it.

To each their own.
 
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sol_bad

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They are when they're a bunch of dumb cunts that shit on a movie just because it doesn't agree with their political views or act like it's amazing because of their political views (star wars and avengers).
There are a lot of dumb cunts on this forum that whinge about Brie Larson and Captain Marvel because they don't match their views and people championing Rambo and Joker just because it makes the opposite political side upset. I wouldn't say those people are worthless though,
The same shit happens on both sides of the political barrier.

With user review aggregation, critics have become obsolete. Why do I care what some yuppie glorified blogger thinks about a movie’s politics when I can get actual reviews from actual people?
There are plenty of good movies out there that are rated well by critics and rated badly by audiences. Hereditary is just one example, great film but a large portion of the audience hates it. The Venom film is the opposite where it's a trash film and critics rated it trash, yet somehow audiences loved it. At the end of the day, if you are a film lover, you can't fully trust the critics or the audience.
 

kunonabi

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Saw it this afternoon and I thought was disappointing. The second half really let's the movie down unfortunately.
 

Whitesnake

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There are plenty of good movies out there that are rated well by critics and rated badly by audiences. Hereditary is just one example, great film but a large portion of the audience hates it. The Venom film is the opposite where it's a trash film and critics rated it trash, yet somehow audiences loved it. At the end of the day, if you are a film lover, you can't fully trust the critics or the audience.
That’s why you peek at the actual reviews and not just the numbers. Check a few positive ones, see what they liked about, check a few negative ones, see what they disliked about it, etc. I didn’t say user reviews wer infallible, they’re susceptible to brigades and what-not. But if you actually look at the ones that give reasoned reviews, you’re gonna get a way better diversity of opinion than the looking at critics reviews.

If critics rate a movie 14% and users rate it 88%, then I know for certain it’s a good movie. If the reverse is true, then it’s worth doing a bit of reading to see why people feel that way and whether it actually has to do with the movie or not.

you can't fully trust the critics
Then what good are they? What are they getting paid for?
 
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brap

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There are a lot of dumb cunts on this forum that whinge about Brie Larson and Captain Marvel because they don't match their views and people championing Rambo and Joker just because it makes the opposite political side upset. I wouldn't say those people are worthless though,
The same shit happens on both sides of the political barrier.
Yes, I'm sure people are mad at generic children's superhero film #3428976 because feminism or whatever. Breeeeee is an unlikable cunt and people were mad about the too many white males comment. If you think people are championing Rambo and Joker because of politics you're a brainlet and I'm sorry. Joker is a beloved character that tons of people love. People love Stallone and Rambo too. The audience score on RT isn't inflated because of right wing politics either. Your average person doesn't give a fuck about politics which is why most people can enjoy a marvel movie and a rambo movie.