I feel like I've read a lot of people saying he's losing subscribers, and out of pure interest, I've been watching his subscriber count in the last week and a half or so. It actually appears to have gone up by a few thousand. Cool, mass internet outrage changes nothing. That's at least somewhat comforting.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
JonTron Releases a Statement
- Thread starter LionPride
- Start date
- Status
Boogies defense is for Pewdiepie, Jontron, Colin Moriarty, Philip Defranco. So he's going after multiple media sources at once to defend his Youtube acquaintances. The trend for these "Controversial" YT celebs getting called out for their "opinions" is all because of an internet media "Hate Mob" that masturbates itself to the power to ruin their livelihoods.
Blabbing and faffing about not being prepared for a debate is standing for what he believes in?
Being disgusted at outright white nationalism is outrage culture?
Outrage culture? The guy was openly racist. Outrage is entirely appropriate. What he believes is absolutely disgusting.
"outrage culture" is a deflective term for "not accepting intolerance and toxic behaviours/beliefs". If you have any analytical integrity you'd never give the phrase a mention.
It's weird who he grouped together in that video. I feel like JonTron and PewDiePie were leagues above what Colin or Philip Defranco did. I could see people defending the latter, but the former are just plain in the wrong.
Mate, I agree that any outrage here was/is entirely appropriate. Read my previous post.
If this is true, im upset
I can't speak for this other guy. But him apologizing would not erase the fact that he has pretty bad ideas.
Why, sir, you do underestimate me. Whisper is the best Yokai butler and is VERY knowledgeable about all things!
So long as he has his Yokai Pad.
I mentioned it because it was what I thought the original poster was referring to. I was right. It has nothing to do with analytical integrity.
Poetic.Injustice
Member
Some Youtube personalities want it all: No executive oversight plus the freedom to air their heinous views to a mass audience, which would probably get them fired if they were in a corporate environment.
At least there is a very real method to keep checks and balances on them with their subscriber counts.
Fair enough. Personally I'd never have tried to justify or rationalise the statements of someone who thinks JonTron needn't apologise and uses terms like "special snowflake", but that's just me.
DorkLord54
Member
Pretty much. I mean, the dude admitted he thinks all black people are crooks, whites need to preserve their gene pool from dilution, Mexicans are both lazy moochers and cunning strategists who want to achieve Aztlan, Zaire is still the name of Congo-Kinshasa, etc.
There ain't a lot of room for interpretation.
I think the poster means people who know what he said, yet are completely fine with it.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
As someone thats unsubbed to jon after this, what do you mean by support? im not going to claim the millions of people who still watch his videos are all racists because thats a load of nonsense.
He's gaining followers from a new Audience, Like Nationalists, White Supremecists and whatnot who see him as "One of the good ones" to represent them in a niche community and spread their message.
Like the rep of Daily Stormer debating Destiny on behalf of Jontrons defense, because he's never heard or cared about Jontron....until he supported white supremecist beliefs.
KojiKnight
Member
YouTube really needs to start stepping up and policing their service better. Let him keep his channel, but by all means disable his ability to make money on your service at least.
ChamplooJones
Formerly Momotaro
If you have a mixtape let me know cuz this post is fire!
when did the left become so reactionary, lmao.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
So if they are aware, and still watch his videos, they're all racists? Im just trying to understand the logic here.
I agree with you, but I don't think the white nationalist, politically reactionary audience on youtube is so much niche. Its large enough that people pander to them.
Fahzgoolin
Banned
I realize this is probably a result of ignorance and/or inexperience, but the whole racism in culture debate feels super shallow from my end.
Genuine calculated racism seems to rarely make an appearance, but only pointed out due to Internet access. It almost feels like a self induced issue, where most people aren't racist, but racial misunderstanding and general disrespect for your fellow neighbor seems to be categorized as racism if the parties involved are of a different race.
My father works for a big name company and they frequently celebrate only people of color and has strange meetings where they separate races into groups when seating them to try to point out "disguised social racism." It feels like a cyclical problem by the nature of calling each other equal, but drawing attention to race in the first place. For many, it raises eyebrows and feels forced. In media and in the work place, diversity seems naturally present because we are all Americans, but suddenly we have people in droves claiming the opposite is true.
I say this from a personal perspective of not witnessing much genuine racism, but more of seeing the opposite. I can't be personally aware of all issues present in the culture, but Jon's response seemed at least fair in the message he was trying to say. I didn't follow much of his statements in the past weeks, so there's that too.
Genuine calculated racism seems to rarely make an appearance, but only pointed out due to Internet access. It almost feels like a self induced issue, where most people aren't racist, but racial misunderstanding and general disrespect for your fellow neighbor seems to be categorized as racism if the parties involved are of a different race.
My father works for a big name company and they frequently celebrate only people of color and has strange meetings where they separate races into groups when seating them to try to point out "disguised social racism." It feels like a cyclical problem by the nature of calling each other equal, but drawing attention to race in the first place. For many, it raises eyebrows and feels forced. In media and in the work place, diversity seems naturally present because we are all Americans, but suddenly we have people in droves claiming the opposite is true.
I say this from a personal perspective of not witnessing much genuine racism, but more of seeing the opposite. I can't be personally aware of all issues present in the culture, but Jon's response seemed at least fair in the message he was trying to say. I didn't follow much of his statements in the past weeks, so there's that too.
The Niche community I was referring to was the LP and Video Game commentary one.
Chie Satonaka
Member
All they care about is money.
On top of that, you'd get the people whining about "liburuls taking away people's ability to make money" or whatever goofy shit they whine about.
Jon won. He put out a non-apology apology, the shit he says remains in the ether, he gains subs and a whole new alt-reich following, continues to make money, and nothing actually changes. I'd at least take a small measure of satisfaction from him losing sponsors, but it doesn't even seem like that happened.
That's the world we live in. His bigotry is rewarded, and the people he marginalizes will continue to lose.
I can't even be mad about it anymore. I'll tell my people to stop watching his bullshit, and keep it moving. That's all us decent people can do. Keep aware, spread the word, and move on.
Same shit different day.
Not statements, only his first one, and it was necessary. People were taking it the complete wrong way, assuming that he supported what Jon was saying. He wasn't. Nonetheless he got banned anyway. Silly.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
I wish jontron could see this
grim-tales
Member
Of course. But imo at least he should have said "I said some horrible things, and I was wrong. I am sorry", but he didnt even really say that.
The gaming community at large is probably at least 70 percent comprised of them or people sympathetic to them. Step into any competitive online shooter or MMO and look at the chat if politics is mentioned. Best case scenario you get "I don't talk about politics" which is of course a statement in itself.
Businesses should disavow racists and not allow them to use the platform. Seems pretty straightforward.
Im having a tough time trying to understand this post.
Are you trying to say "Racism" needs to be categorized by it's extremes?
And that since you haven't witnessed it before means that it's not genuine?
ForsakenLotus
Member
Most people have opinions on political issues while simultaneously being either somewhat ignorant on the subject or very ignorant, and I'm including myself here. I also find that a lot of times a person might not have considered certain aspects of their opinion or just didn't understand the issue enough to be aware of some negative elements of a position they take - again, I admit this sometimes describes me.
So with that being said, it has to be pretty difficult to voice opinions in a society that is becoming far less forgiving and extremely critical of any social or political statement, and it must be even more distressing that labels get attached to a person and subsequently parroted around the internet to the point where the assumption is that the label is accurate.
I only have a cursory idea of what JonTron said, so this isn't meant as a defense of what he said or his response to the backlash. I just felt like saying the discourse in this country has become so toxic, especially after Donald Trump somehow became president, and that I wish people were more willing to accept that a person may state an opinion that you find troublesome or reprehensible because of your beliefs or understanding of the issue without the need to categorize them as an objectively bad person. It's possible that after making a statement and seeing the backlash, they may realize why their stance was wrong. It's possible they aren't a horrible person but have some views that don't align with your morality.
Sometimes it seems like a liberal-minded witch hunt and I don't think it helps society grow but rather just further polarizes the country. And I say this as somebody who considers himself pretty progressive; but part of being a progressive, fundamentally, should be an openness to ideas and the desire to try to understand different points of views. Even if somebody is seemingly wrong in what they believe in some areas I find it a better strategy to be constructive rather than vitriolic, at least when the person in question doesn't seem like a villainous caricature but just a complex human being who is like the most of us pretty ignorant or misguided about a lot of things in life.
So with that being said, it has to be pretty difficult to voice opinions in a society that is becoming far less forgiving and extremely critical of any social or political statement, and it must be even more distressing that labels get attached to a person and subsequently parroted around the internet to the point where the assumption is that the label is accurate.
I only have a cursory idea of what JonTron said, so this isn't meant as a defense of what he said or his response to the backlash. I just felt like saying the discourse in this country has become so toxic, especially after Donald Trump somehow became president, and that I wish people were more willing to accept that a person may state an opinion that you find troublesome or reprehensible because of your beliefs or understanding of the issue without the need to categorize them as an objectively bad person. It's possible that after making a statement and seeing the backlash, they may realize why their stance was wrong. It's possible they aren't a horrible person but have some views that don't align with your morality.
Sometimes it seems like a liberal-minded witch hunt and I don't think it helps society grow but rather just further polarizes the country. And I say this as somebody who considers himself pretty progressive; but part of being a progressive, fundamentally, should be an openness to ideas and the desire to try to understand different points of views. Even if somebody is seemingly wrong in what they believe in some areas I find it a better strategy to be constructive rather than vitriolic, at least when the person in question doesn't seem like a villainous caricature but just a complex human being who is like the most of us pretty ignorant or misguided about a lot of things in life.
RTJamerson
Banned
Kudos to him for not backing down even if his views are alienating or wrong. It would be even worse if he just pretended he didn't mean it and give an insincere apology.
capitalCORN
Member
My Poe's Law detection circuit broke again
I think a large portion of that though are young gamers who mostly speak from ignorance, say awful things because they believe they are funny, or just reflect the opinions of parents or authority figures. I think most older gamers aren't as racist or generally hateful.
Kudos to Trump and Bannon, too, then I guess.
Vincent Grayson
Member
I have always wondered why the Irish went from being hated to just another group of white people.
themagicalkitsune
Member
Oh boy, the juniors are coming out of their caves.
Rushersauce
Banned
Zeyphersan
Banned
I loved this man before. Now, even more
JonTron is the hill they choose to die on for some reason.
excelsiorlef
Member
I mean youtube is under no requirement to let avowed racists make money using their tools and platform.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
If you actually familiarized yourself with what he said you'd understand the how and why of that particular toxicity and how your argument, as well meaning and well-intentioned as it might be, is only promoting that toxicity further.
The discourse is different than it used to be because people who otherwise did not have as much of a voice or presence in our culture suddenly are able to speak loudly and clearly when they feel they're being marginalized.
this is considered "toxic" by some.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked