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[EdibleKnife]

What's wrong with TB and Boogie, aside from taking a more centrist approach (which is a bit spineless, sure but not on the same level as a goddamn white supremacist)? I'm a bit out of the loop.

Evil succeeds when good men do (or say) nothing. No it isn't on the same level as being a white supremacist but shying away from calling a spade a spade especially when we're discussing racism, a powerful force that literally affects people's lives, it is rightly cowardly, pathetic and not something people should support.

 

[NandoGip]

Man, self-described "gamers" really have a problem with racism and sexism. It's pretty safe to say at this point.

edit: words

 

[Armaros]

It's a personal decision, but the call to dump an entertainment personality is relatively uncumbersome these days, as there's not exactly a lack of entertainment out there not produced by racist shitheads.

Someone's book or movie is not the same as a Youtuber that uses his personality for to sell himself.

 

[SomTervo]

People always make a big deal about stuff like this. This is how i know racism will never go away. people care too much about what someone says.

Unless you mean people agree too much with what JonTron says, in which case, yeah, I guess?

 

[Edzi]

I'm actually legitimately surprised he got away with saying the stuff he said.

But now I have to wonder where we go from here since it's clear that Jon "won" in a general sense. There was no real blowback outside of a few small articles and forum posts, and racists probably just feel more empowered than ever.

 

[SomTervo]

"Don't be racist" should be the centrist position. Trying to find the middle between "don't be racist" and "be really transparently racist" means you feel people should be racist.

Perfectly said, haha.

 

[Silver Arrows]

It should be also noted that Boogie trawled around the old GG threads here on GAF and continued his schtick of 'p-p-play nice everyone! listen to other viewpoints!' and when he didn't get his way, threatened to kill himself or some other form of self harm, and he was banned for his own safety.

though chances are I fucked up entirely in this line of events

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

At least with Ender's Game fans they don't have to look at Orson Scott's face while enjoying his book.

Yeah, and even then, Scott Card is uber-sketchy. People love to say "separate the art from the artist" but fail to take into account that the artist is a fucking talk show host. And that his opinion is "our white gene pool is under assault".

Boogie characterized JonTron's racist rant as "trying on a new hat"

..... what......

What does that even mean?

"He's trying the racism angle now on his show." Or - ?

It should be also noted that Boogie trawled around the old GG threads here on GAF and continued his schtick of 'p-p-play nice everyone! listen to other viewpoints!' and when he didn't get his way, threatened to kill himself or some other form of self harm, and he was banned for his own safety.

though chances are I fucked up entirely in this line of events

And then was given an award at the TGAs.

And no, you didn't.

 

[Neptonic]

When Colin said his shit many of his peers and former co-workers in the games press industry came out publicly and called him out on it.
Seeing YouTube people I want to like tribalistiticly deafend their own is kinda the worst. I'd wish they'd be more professional. I hope people I watch and really enjoy don't jump on this bandwagon.

 

[Toxi]

We're going to see gaming personalities keep pushing with more and more blatant racism. And as long as we don't reject them as a community, it will keep getting worse. We've already moved the Overton window to the point that worrying about the genetics of immigrants is "not that bad."

 

[L Thammy]

Unless you mean people agree too much with what JonTron says, in which case, yeah, I guess?

Maybe the people calling out racists are the real racists.
Maybe the liberals are the real dictators.
Maybe GAF is the real GameFAQs.
Maybe the sun is the real moon.
Maybe dogs are the real cats.
Maybe Super Mario Galaxy is the real Sonic the Hedgehog (2006).
Maybe...

 

[Oersted]

What's wrong with TB and Boogie, aside from taking a more centrist approach (which is a bit spineless, sure but not on the same level as a goddamn white supremacist)? I'm a bit out of the loop.

Condemning reporting and disliking racist remarks is not centrist. It normalizes racism.

 

[Yukinari]

Jon could at the very least publicly list his response video instead of making his viewers go to twitter to see it.

I know not all 3 million of his subs know about his political views but the ones that did didnt even see the video in their inbox.

 

[mattp]

Yo chums,

Your boi Jimothy Sterling dropped an article on Jontron being a smelly racist

http://www.thejimquisition.com/youtubers-say-the-darndest-things/

great article
but ugh the comments

 

[SomTervo]

Maybe the people calling out racists are the real racists.
Maybe the liberals are the real dictators.
Maybe GAF is the real GameFAQs.
Maybe the sun is the real moon.
Maybe dogs are the real cats.
Maybe Super Mario Galaxy is the real Sonic the Hedgehog (2006).
Maybe...

Maybe the Mona Lisa is the real

 

[Bahorel]

Jon could at the very least publicly list his response video instead of making his viewers go to twitter to see it.

I know not all 3 million of his subs know about his political views but the ones that did didnt even see the video in their inbox.

He's keeping it on the down low so that less of his subscribers realize who he is. He definitely knows his opinions aren't welcome.

 

[Anung]

Jon could at the very least publicly list his response video instead of making his viewers go to twitter to see it.

I know not all 3 million of his subs know about his political views but the ones that did didnt even see the video in their inbox.

He doesn't want people seeing it. This is sweeping it under the rug mode.

 

[grim-tales]

He wears an SS uniform in some his videos so I guess he himself isnt "seperating art from the artist"

I dont remember seeing that particular video, doesnt sound good. I remember one where he made fun of Hitler liking Disney and autotuned a speech with "subtitles" (to the tune of Hakuna Matata). At the time I thought it was stupidly funny, but it makes me look at his humour (?) in a new way.

Yeah, Jontron should definitely list his Statement video properly. I commented on it (saying I wasnt impressed with it) and got some insults back (others agreed though).

 

[ArchedThunder]

Funhaus coverage of this whole incident was utterly awful. They speak as if there is a discussion needed on what JonTron says. The guy is arguing that one race is vastly greater and more well-mannered than any other race. There is no debate or discussion needed. JonTron's views are completely ignorant and just quite frankly idiotic.

Also the thing that started this all of was a discussion on what JonTron says. It held up to such little scrutiny that his only defense was to claim that he didn't mean to say any of those things.

Very embarrassing though, glad I don't watch FunHaus.

? They spent a lot of the time talking about how JonTron's views are wrong, even if you give him the benefit of the doubt on somethings and then try to understand how these people even get their views in the first place.

 

[PlayALLtheGames]

I just questioned the amount the thread itself accomplishes, which is basically NOTHING

You've had people here say they used the thread to learn about the whole thing, so, your claim is demonstrably inaccurate.

 

[Samemind]

Wait, for real?

AFAIR, it happened once for a punchline.

 

[Nanashrew]

What's wrong with TB and Boogie, aside from taking a more centrist approach (which is a bit spineless, sure but not on the same level as a goddamn white supremacist)? I'm a bit out of the loop.

There is no neutrality when it comes to racism.

Boogie downplayed and attempted to normalize JonTron's racism like it was trying on a new hat, trying out new ideas. TB attempted to normalize and downplay JonTron's racism by deflecting to publications and media like Gizmodo who reported on JonTron's debate.

TB also made a second audio log where he was angry that no one listened to his previous audio log and it was full of deflection, complaints of "virtue signaling," and "what's the point of criticizing JonTron?" actual quote.


Their "neutrality" was silencing the people who are genuinely offended by JonTron's comments. They are silencing minorities through their "neutrality."

 

[Jumeira]

What is it with youtube personalities becoming shit lords?

Is it because they have no interaction with people outside of a message board or chat and get surrounded by shitbag trolls who are say awful things ironically..but then start to believe those awful things?

For the shit heads yeah I think so. They're not in a professional environment, they aren't held to a company code of conduct (outside of YouTube rules) and are simply personal commentators on a open platform. Speaking from the comfort of thier bedrooms as opposed to a studio with a varied crew of colleagues .

 

[Tiops]

AFAIR, it happened once for a punchline.

Yes, in his StarCade videos that had a production behind it.

 

[rakkadakka]

What is it with youtube personalities becoming shit lords?

Some people are just shitlords.

Youtube or not.

Celebrity and ideological echo chambers don't help the matter.

 

[Messofanego]

There is no neutrality when it comes to racism.

Boogie downplayed and attempted to normalize JonTron's racism like it was trying on a new hat, trying out new ideas. TB attempted to normalize and downplay JonTron's racism by deflecting to publications and media like Gizmodo who reported on JonTron's debate.

TB also made a second audio log where he was angry that "no one listened to his previous audio log" and it was full of deflection, complaints of "virtue signaling," and "what's the point of criticizing JonTron?" actual quote.


Their "neutrality" was silencing the people who are genuinely offended by JonTron's comments. They are silencing minorities through their "neutrality."

Haha sounds like TB, alright. These are all Youtubers, they defend their own. They'll deflect like politicians. Unless if it comes to stuff like rape or paedophilia, as evidenced by Milo.

 

[CannonFodder52]

Hmm. I've been very critical of my friend who wants to continue staying subbed to Johntron. Yet I separated my opinion of Morrissey from his music. I don't really listen to his solo stuff, but was the lead of The Smiths, a band I don't plan on separating from.

Morrissey (solo career post The Smiths) – Bengali In Platforms lyrics

I think I'm a hypocrite. I'm surprised no one called me out for this, with this avatar in this thread.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

What's wrong with TB and Boogie, aside from taking a more centrist approach (which is a bit spineless, sure but not on the same level as a goddamn white supremacist)? I'm a bit out of the loop.

Boogie characterized JonTron's racist rant as "trying on a new hat"

I was a bit sad to find out Boogie was a piece of shit. He seems like a genuinely nice, positive guy from his videos, but I won't support someone who tries to normalise or brush aside racism.

There is no neutrality when it comes to racism.

Boogie downplayed and attempted to normalize JonTron's racism like it was trying on a new hat, trying out new ideas. TB attempted to normalize and downplay JonTron's racism by deflecting to publications and media like Gizmodo who reported on JonTron's debate.

TB also made a second audio log where he was angry that no one listened to his previous audio log and it was full of deflection, complaints of "virtue signaling," and "what's the point of criticizing JonTron?" actual quote.

Their "neutrality" was silencing the people who are genuinely offended by JonTron's comments. They are silencing minorities through their "neutrality."

If I could be bothered I'd like to go through TotalBiscuit's history and see what he has criticised in previous videos and then point out what a fucking hypocrite he is. I can't be bothered though and I don't want to give him the views. I can't bear his fucking pseudo-intellectualism, and his defence of JonTron was especially galling because he blamed literally fucking everything except Jon.

 

[Marquis]

? They spent a lot of the time talking about how JonTron's views are wrong, even if you give him the benefit of the doubt on somethings and then try to understand how these people even get their views in the first place.

Maybe I missed it so please let me know if I did, but to me the whole FunHaus podcast at least just get going in circles when discussing JonTron. Nobody flat out stated his views were just idiotic and racist. Everybody on the podcast were tip toeing through JonTron's statements and didn't really seem to oppose him at all. Like for instance they go on to speak about how JonTron wasn't prepared to go on a 2 hour podcast to defend his views and they almost seemed to be making an excuse for him. I wasn't expecting a character assassination but I defintely wanted them to oppose him a bit more then they did.

 

[ArchedThunder]

Maybe I missed it so please let me know if I did, but to me the whole FunHaus podcast at least just get going in circles when discussing JonTron. Nobody flat out stated his views were just idiotic and racist. Everybody on the podcast were tip toeing through JonTron's statements and didn't really seem to oppose him at all. Like for instance they go on to speak about how JonTron wasn't prepared to go on a 2 hour podcast to defend his views and they almost seemed to be making an excuse for him. I wasn't expecting a character assassination but I defintely wanted them to oppose him a bit more then they did.

It seemed pretty clear to me that they opposed his views.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

It should be also noted that Boogie trawled around the old GG threads here on GAF and continued his schtick of 'p-p-play nice everyone! listen to other viewpoints!' and when he didn't get his way, threatened to kill himself or some other form of self harm, and he was banned for his own safety.

though chances are I fucked up entirely in this line of events

A number of people called him out in acting all nice and virtuous on gaf whilst his idea of "neutrality" was to go around casually using slurs and stuff like f*g on 4chan at the same time to "fit in and adopt their culture" as he described it himself.

The weirdly suicidal shit that got him banned mostly resulted from him being so horrified at the thought people might judge him over stuff like that (or heavens forbid, think he's homophobic or something similar) that he ... yeah.


It seems Boogie tends to deeply deeply relate to the idea of a fellow gamer being judged for saying things they "might not mean that way" based on how his short stay at gaf ended, so I'm not too surprised how much empathy goes out to Jon from his side.

 

[Silver Arrows]

A number of people called him out in acting all nice and virtuous on gaf whilst his idea of "neutrality" was to go around casually using slurs and stuff like f*g on 4chan at the same time to "fit in and adopt their culture" as he described it himself.

The weirdly suicidal shit that got him banned mostly resulted from him being so horrified at the thought people might judge him over stuff like that (or heavens forbid, think he's homophobic or something similar) that he ... yeah.


It seems Boogie tends to deeply deeply relate to the idea of a fellow gamer being judged for saying things they "might not mean that way" based on how his short stay at gaf ended, so I'm not too surprised how much empathy goes out to Jon from his side.

Thanks for describing it better then I did. I remember the old GG thread, but I never really saw what Boogie did, just going off hearsay.

 

[Edzi]

A number of people called him out in acting all nice and virtuous on gaf whilst his idea of "neutrality" was to go around casually using slurs and stuff like f*g on 4chan at the same time to "fit in and adopt their culture" as he described it himself.

The weirdly suicidal shit that got him banned mostly resulted from him being so horrified at the thought people might judge him over stuff like that (or heavens forbid, think he's homophobic or something similar) that he ... yeah.


It seems Boogie tends to deeply deeply relate to the idea of a fellow gamer being judged for saying things they "might not mean that way" based on how his short stay at gaf ended, so I'm not too surprised how much empathy goes out to Jon from his side.

I don't really know much about Boogie, but he sounds really pathetic based on this. I'll be honest, I never really paid attention to the controversy surrounding so many YT gamers before (I still don't really know what gamergate even was), but all this has kind of opened my eyes to how deeply messed up that community seems to be.

 

[Silver Arrows]

I don't really know much about Boogie, but he sounds really pathetic based on this. I'll be honest, I never really paid attention to the controversy surrounding so many YT gamers before (I still don't really know what gamergate even was), but all this has kind of opened my eyes to how deeply messed up that community seems to be.

That's what I saw when I first heard about the entire chain of events, and it certainly makes sense why he became the sort of compassionate schmuck to the alt-right denizens of Youtube gamer personalities.

Certainly doesn't mean he gets a free pass for being that, in fact, it makes it much more important to call him out for his coddling of hardcore racists like Jontron.

 

[The Technomancer]

A number of people called him out in acting all nice and virtuous on gaf whilst his idea of "neutrality" was to go around casually using slurs and stuff like f*g on 4chan at the same time to "fit in and adopt their culture" as he described it himself.

The weirdly suicidal shit that got him banned mostly resulted from him being so horrified at the thought people might judge him over stuff like that (or heavens forbid, think he's homophobic or something similar) that he ... yeah.


It seems Boogie tends to deeply deeply relate to the idea of a fellow gamer being judged for saying things they "might not mean that way" based on how his short stay at gaf ended, so I'm not too surprised how much empathy goes out to Jon from his side.

Yup this exactly

 

[aravuus]

A number of people called him out in acting all nice and virtuous on gaf whilst his idea of "neutrality" was to go around casually using slurs and stuff like f*g on 4chan at the same time to "fit in and adopt their culture" as he described it himself.

The weirdly suicidal shit that got him banned mostly resulted from him being so horrified at the thought people might judge him over stuff like that (or heavens forbid, think he's homophobic or something similar) that he ... yeah.


It seems Boogie tends to deeply deeply relate to the idea of a fellow gamer being judged for saying things they "might not mean that way" based on how his short stay at gaf ended, so I'm not too surprised how much empathy goes out to Jon from his side.

Like triggerhappytel said just above, he always seemed like a nice, warm guy in the few videos I watched from him.

Hopefully all of that neutrality bullshit is born out of naivety and not pure malice and he corrects his ways some day.

 

[glaringradio]

Well, after listening to that TB recording on SoundCloud, yikes, few more taps on the unsubscribe button.

Shame, but yeah, no matter what arena, if make your living doing something in a very public space you really have to consider things long term... and by that I mean if you're at all racist/sexist/anythingist in the first place, go find your own wee special public space to communicate that stuff from the start.

 

[Einchy]

People always make a big deal about stuff like this. This is how i know racism will never go away. people care too much about what someone says.

We were the racists all along.

 

[glaringradio]

People always make a big deal about stuff like this. This is how i know racism will never go away. people care too much about what someone says.

I mean, as insignificant as it sounds in relation to how many people there are in the world, but a person who has 3m YouTube subscribers and millions of followers on Facebook and Twitter isn't exactly "someone" anymore. They're officially a personality, and if you look back on the past 120~ years of our history, celebrities have a significant effect on the world.

 

[TI82]

The takeaway here is that often the people we find funny or entertaining have awful or horrible ideas. We've seen this so many times throughout history that I'm not surprised but I am upset because I really found jon to be one of my favorite comedians. :|

 

[grim-tales]

The takeaway here is that often the people we find funny or entertaining have awful or horrible ideas. We've seen this so many times throughout history that I'm not surprised but I am upset because I really found jon to be one of my favorite comedians. :|

I feel upset about it as well as I enjoyed his work and thought he was a funny, talented guy

 

[Breads]

Is that what happened here, though? It sounds like JonTron genuinely has these views. Saying that he does it for attentions risk reducing a hateful, actively harmful person to simply an irresponsible, greedy one.

Everyone has shitty views that is at someone else's expense. Self interest guarantees that.

Jontron could have kept his bigotry to himself like most media people do. To let it out into the ether for clicks... that's what people think he is doing. Much like Milo he is now seen as a posterboy of hatred/ redpilling and he will probably benefit greatly for it over time seeing as how the people who usually would call shit like this out refuse to.

It's easy calling out people you don't give a shit about but when your friends are on some deplorable shit? Nah... they get a free pass. That's what this has taught me and this why people are denouncing certain youtubers as frauds.

Like triggerhappytel said just above, he always seemed like a nice, warm guy in the few videos I watched from him.

Hopefully all of that neutrality bullshit is born out of naivety and not pure malice and he corrects his ways some day.

It could also be cowardice. They don't want to call someone out because that would alienate a cross section of their fans that could in turn cause people to dig into their past and expose their own wrongdoings to a wider audience.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

He still has the same amount of subscribers , its kind of crazy when you think about it, it didnt increase or decrease.

 

[TI82]

I feel upset about it as well as I enjoyed his work and thought he was a funny, talented guy

Yeah and don't get me wrong he is still a funny and talented guy. But also an ignorant shithead. We have to remember that people like Ben Carson do exist after all.

 

[Gun Animal]

He still has the same amount of subscribers , its kind of crazy when you think about it, it didnt increase or decrease.

it decreased and then it increased. His subscriber demographics are shifting. He's going to radicalize even more now that he basically fell headfirst into an echo-chamber.

edit: at this rate Jon will be rambling about the Roman empire and the benefits of the Feudal system by 2018

 

[grim-tales]

Yeah and don't get me wrong he is still a funny and talented guy. But also an ignorant shithead. We have to remember that people like Ben Carson do exist after all.

Yeah, that's true.... (on Ben Carson). Thanks BTW
Its just right now, I dont know if I can see Jontron's work the same way because of all this and I overthink his jokes and stuff, like when I saw the drugs PSA episode, I hadnt seen him look at those before. I was a bit like "Does that mean he takes drugs.. what?"
It's difficult for me to see the video personality as a "persona" if you see what I mean.
BTW I think I have some traits of ASC/Aspergers which makes it hard for me to read social cues sometimes (and other things).

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

The takeaway here is that often the people we find funny or entertaining have awful or horrible ideas. We've seen this so many times throughout history that I'm not surprised but I am upset because I really found jon to be one of my favorite comedians. :|

This is sort of a logical fallacy. Not every is going to be full-blown racist.

What happened on Destiny's stream with Jon was unique. It wasn't the norm.

 

[Edzi]

Everyone has shitty views that is at someone else's expense. Self interest guarantees that.

Jontron could have kept his bigotry to himself like most media people do. To let it out into the ether for clicks... that's what people think he is doing. Much like Milo he is now seen as a posterboy of hatred/ redpilling and he will probably benefit greatly for it over time seeing as how the people who usually would call shit like this out refuse to.

It's easy calling out people you don't give a shit about but when your friends are on some deplorable shit? Nah... they get a free pass. That's what this has taught me and this why people are denouncing certain youtubers as frauds.

You're giving Jon way too much credit. He genuinely seems dumb (and pretty arrogant), I think that's all there is to it.

 

[Fuchsdh]

I was a bit sad to find out Boogie was a piece of shit. He seems like a genuinely nice, positive guy from his videos, but I won't support someone who tries to normalise or brush aside racism.



If I could be bothered I'd like to go through TotalBiscuit's history and see what he has criticised in previous videos and then point out what a fucking hypocrite he is. I can't be bothered though and I don't want to give him the views. I can't bear his fucking pseudo-intellectualism, and his defence of JonTron was especially galling because he blamed literally fucking everything except Jon.

I don't think TotalBiscuit's problem is hypocrisy, it's that when it comes to this stuff he's myopic to a fault. Yeah, games journalism sucks terribly, but handwaving away misogyny and racism to talk about the issue you're personally more interested in just shows that you've got a pretty sheltered existence.

All the Youtubers' reactions to this and the Pewdiepie stuff, et al just reinforces that they're in a bubble in relation to what matters in the real world. So they close ranks even when their host includes some pretty repellent people with repellent ideas.

 

[plufim]

TB and Boogie defending JohnTron to me is about self interest. Right now youtube personalities aren't held accountable for their shit, it's the wild west. If JohnTron sees repurcussions then others will too, and both TB and Boogie have plenty of black spots on their name over coddling up to GG.