so it begins.
No it CANNOT. This is a limitation of the DISPLAY technology *NOT* the console. They cannot circumvent display limitations. It's impossible and they have not achieved it.Simple intuitive logic is often wrong. One of the great things about exclusive games on standardized hardware is what devs can do with it, so what is true for PC isn't necessarily true for console. Judder can be hidden or minimized in that environment.
And again, they know the tech, they built the game, so if they say unlocked 30-60fps = better experience, then that is probably the case. On an individual level, of course, ymmv.
I'd love to see this.Throw a "lock framerate" option in the option menu.
no. Motion blur has nothing to do with how screen process information. Also it wasn't camera because camera in GOW3 is rarely static and often change views (if for example QTE is used).
They simply put created game where they had framerate 40-50 FPS ALL THE TIME. No 30 fps drops always 40-50.
and now we are truly in dreamland. GOW3 was triple buffered supersmooth 40-50FPS game. No any sturrer.
Seriously, why do people here think they know better than the developers? They must have locked it at 30 to test?
No it CANNOT. This is a limitation of the DISPLAY technology *NOT* the console. They cannot circumvent display limitations. It's impossible and they have not achieved it.
There isn't screen tearing and there will not be. Don't waste their time with that question as it will muddy the waters in regards to the real issue. It uses triple buffering so it won't tear.I just tweet the guy and ask him to clarify about screen tearing, this would definitely be a deal breaker for me, those who had the same problem should send a tweet a las well, I they see that more than one person wants an answer we might get a quicker response
Technically speaking, it HAS to be triple buffered. Double buffing would result in a maximum framerate of 30 fps if it could not hold 60. Triple buffering is what allows for tear free framerates between 30 and 60 but it always produces judder.
So it does. Like I said maybe it's an encoding issue with the variable frame rate and the game itself seems smoother but the Giant Bomb comments don't seem to back that up. If you're insinuating that I'm a troll, just look up my post history.
How do you know is triple buffered? Any links to an article? And I'm not muddying the water, as a customer I have the right to know If the product will be up to my standardsThere isn't screen tearing and there will not be. Don't waste their time with that question as it will muddy the waters in regards to the real issue. It uses triple buffering so it won't tear.
I'm sure if the unlocked framerate was a problem the devs would recognize it and take measures.
What about GOW3? Either I'm immune to judder, or it was smooth as shit for the most part.No it CANNOT. This is a limitation of the DISPLAY technology *NOT* the console. They cannot circumvent display limitations. It's impossible and they have not achieved it.
I'll give the benefit of the doubt to GG and their engine. That footage from Brazil was super smooth, smoother than all the other footage shown to date, and no tearing that I could see. I ain't worried.
Since I'm not in reality land like you and I'm not a tech expert please elaborate on why triple buffer means no stutter. what does triple buffer has to do with stutter/judder?
Link please
Could someone explain what is this "judder" that people mentioned in this thread already ?
Sturrer i get
Variable framerate being problem for some people i get
Dropped or doubled frame being noticeable in high FPS i could believe that if it would be framerate less than 40-45 fps
So what is judder ?
See. You people have no imagination. This lets you get 60 fps if you look at the sky while moving.
I do that.
What about GOW3? Either I'm immune to judder, or it was smooth as shit for the most part.
Haha, that's cute.
Gotta say, for GAF being supposedly one of the most hardcore forums it always amazes me that so many people here can't even understand the most easy things and details about the technology behind their beloved games. So many people are just plain ignorant and therefore immune towards technical issues and shortocmings - good for them I guess but they should really stop claiming that more educated or sensible persons are automatically "elitists".
If GG decides for an unlocked framerate, I guess they really don't know what they are doing there. With an unlocked framerate an uneven experience will be GUARANTEED. You will have to adjust to different framerates in different playing sections and sometimes even within the same section. It is jarring. Like a poster before said, GOW with it's fixed camera is not as much affected by that decision as KZ:SF will be but even there it's quite bad. If you noticed it once, you just can't unsee and unfeel it.
Welcome to the arrogance of forum posters.
Actually, it is a general human trait, and if iirc my pscy classes correctly, and helps with survival. It can be accounted for on an individual level with practice in critical thinking and maturity, but in general everyone thinks they know enough about everything to always be right, or at least never be wrong.
I'm at work, but you can find it in one of the recent KZ preview threads.Link please
I will answer your question with question. Could you provide video of GOW3 that has noticeable sturrer ? I have 60Hz probably like your set and if you see it i should see it too.
Haha, that's cute.
Gotta say, for GAF being supposedly one of the most hardcore forums it always amazes me that so many people here can't even understand the most easy things and details about the technology behind their beloved games. So many people are just plain ignorant and therefore immune towards technical issues and shortocmings - good for them I guess but they should really stop claiming that more educated or sensible persons are automatically "elitists".
If GG decides for an unlocked framerate, I guess they really don't know what they are doing there. With an unlocked framerate an uneven experience will be GUARANTEED. You will have to adjust to different framerates in different playing sections and sometimes even within the same section. It is jarring. Like a poster before said, GOW with it's fixed camera is not as much affected by that decision as KZ:SF will be but even there it's quite bad. If you noticed it once, you just can't unsee and unfeel it.
Ahahaha I remember playing Unreal 2 like that back when it came out. I had an intel on board gpu and the pc was pure garbage. I got 10-15 fps throught the game and 60 fps while looking at the sky lolSee. You people have no imagination. This lets you get 60 fps if you look at the sky while moving.
I do that.
Whew, that's good. Thought I might be ignorant or uneducated for a minute.You are immune to judder.
If you played the game and didn't notice stutter how a youtube video will make you see it? also how triple buffer fixes stutter? I'd like to know.
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/40142006
51 minutes in.
Seriously no idea why all of the recent preview footage is like sub-20. I think somebody fucked up big time while encoding the media stock footage
God of War 3 has plenty of judder so you're immune to it. However, it was minimized by the use of an on-rails camera that didn't wildly pan around the scene. It becomes much more of an issue when you have full camera control.What about GOW3? Either I'm immune to judder, or it was smooth as shit for the most part.
All recent videos are free from tearing. If they were running an unlocked framerate without v-sync or triple buffering we would see CONSTANT tearing. It would never not be tearing.How do you know is triple buffered? Any links to an article? And I'm not muddying the water, as a customer I have the right to know If the product will be up to my standards
When your framerate does not divide evenly into your refresh rate frames must be repeated. At 30 fps on a 60 Hz display each frame is repeated twice. At 60 fps each frame is displayed just one time. If you display at 45 fps, however, the first frame will be displayed on the screen 1 time while the second frame will be displayed twice. It becomes worse when the framerate varies all over the place and you end up with repeating frames here and single frames there all out of order. The result is motion judder.Could someone explain what is this "judder" that people mentioned in this thread already ?
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/40142006
51 minutes in.
Seriously no idea why all of the recent preview footage is like sub-20. I think somebody fucked up big time while encoding the media stock footage
It's a huge deal for me, though. I absolutely cannot stand motion judder. It destroys otherwise beautiful visuals for me.I have no problems at all with this, I'm more than used to this with PC games. If it's consistently above 40 I most definitely prefer that than being chained to 30. People, as usual, are making a mess over nothing.
I can easily achieve a completely rock solid framerate in most PC games and never accept anything else (will tweak until I achieve a perfect 60 or simply lock it at 30 fps using MSI Afterburner).i'm not too worried, if it's constantly above 30fps it will probably feel pretty good. as long as it never ever dips into 20fps.
honestly, even most games that claim to be locked 30/60fps just aren't. i don't even remember when was the last time i played anything on my PS3 or PC that didn't have obvious framerate variability. and it's fine.
Whoa now, it will NOT be like that. The video was encoded (stupidly) at 26 fps producing severe image judder. The end results will definitely be better than that.I noticed horrible stutter in the new Eurogamer 9 min video. If it's like that (and that's not an issue with the feed) then I am taking my money of Killzone. I play with 120Hz on and it will be worse for me. Nice screw up, Guerrilla.
I am not talking about youtube. I am talking about direct feed 40-50 fps video (maybe gamersyde ?)
If you can "show" me sturrer. Slow down video or whatever you want. Sturrer is something that can be viewed and you can point sturrer in any video.
for the love of god GOW3 doesn't have fixed camera. It moves constantly and reacts to player movement and actions (like changing quick for QTEs).
Seriously, why do people here think they know better than the developers? They must have locked it at 30 to test?
Which is why we need G-Sync technology (or something like it) to become mainstream and appear in more than just crappy LCD monitors.Fluctuating framerates is one of the worst things that can happen to games because it destroys every attempt to deliver a throughout consistent experience and therefore a believable world. You are constantly taken out of immersion because the rendering engine reminds you that it's just a virtual game calculated by a CPU by introducing stutter.
I suspect they believe they are doing the hardcore a favor as higher framerates will produce less input lag even if the end result suffers from image judder. So they probably focused heavily on getting the latency under control. If they cap it at 30 fps latency will increase but I'd sooner take a little bit of extra latency over an inconsistent framerate.Developers frequently make bad decisions because their motives are not in line with hardcore gamers who actually care about frame rates.
Yep. I see the PC screenshot thread and drool realizing that I simply cannot achieve any of that while playing as it always leads to dips. Just not worth it right now. I drop details and remove AA until my framerate is rock solid *OR* I increase image quality and lock at 30. Consistency is key...at least until G-Sync and the like can eliminate this issue altogether.Still hoping that in the future devs will prioritize a solid 60 over extra eye candy. I routinely turn off SSAO or AA on PC games to ensure I get a solid 60 that never drops. I can barely tell I even changed anything in most cases, but the performance gains I instantly notice once I turn them any "extras" off.
This sort of appeal to authority stuff tends to crop up when it's someone favorite developer being questioned or what not.
You're ignoring all the examples of Guerilla messing up relatively simply things in the past. They've made plenty of objectively bad decisions from a tech standpoint before. The Renderer in Killzone 2, the net-code being terrible and having constant delay. They cleaned up those aspects in 3 but consistently made baffling design decisions for MP (this dates all the way back to KZ2 frankly). People make mistakes, huge companies with many people can make mistakes. We've seen it countless times, and to not acknowledge it is silly. Do I know better than that team? Not in general no, but that doesn't mean they will never make a sub par call due to pressure from on high or the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing.
Remains to be seen IF the unlocked framerate is an issue, but it's guilty until proven innocent after a fashion, especially with an FPS. That's not opinion, it's based on how display technology works and the fact that you're going to notice juddering much more from a first person view.
Welcome to the arrogance of forum posters.
Actually, it is a general human trait, and if iirc my pscy classes correctly, and helps with survival. It can be accounted for on an individual level with practice in critical thinking and maturity, but in general everyone thinks they know enough about everything to always be right, or at least never be wrong.
for example:
Because some people claim that smoother gameplay for most of the time with drops to minimum 30FPS is worse than playing non stop @ 30FPS.
I play PC games almost my whole life i can't simply grasp why people are so jaded over unlocked frame-rate. Especially of now most of people have minimum 60Hz tv sets and monitors that goes to 120hz. 1 frame added or not doesn't make that much of a difference in 50-60fps games and when game drops to less than 40 you have essentially ton of additional Hz to put frames as you want.
Now if you would have old 30Hz set then that would be terrible but almost no one now has 30Hz set.