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[Stinkles]

If that's what we need 50GB for, I call this crap from the get go.
Lossless in a game is total bullshit. Lossless might be important for audiophiles, for videogames... can't believe somebody can fall for this marketing shit.

But doesn't listening to lossy audio make you vomit blood out yer nose? It does me. I couldn't listen to any audio recordings until this time last year.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

This is a PS3 game, a system that has a massive overhead for storage space for it's medium, a team, nah, one of the most talented and revered teams may and can use it how they want.....why the hell is this is negative issue again? Why the hell does it matter?

Hell, I'm just gaming in 5.1 audio myself, but this is a system that can offer more easily to those that can use it.

Better sound possibilities?!! More storage space means taking up more disc space? Using the most of what they are given? For real?!
OMGWTF?!!!

 

[OokieSpookie]

Not understanding what all of the pissing and bitching is about.
If you have are planning on getting MGS4 then great for you, it wont matter how much space they are going to use.
If you have a PS3, then great for you, no matter how much space they use you are covered.
If you do not and do not plan on getting MGS4, then what the **** does it matter to you how much space they use.

There are only two reasons for all of the bitching:
A) people who bitch just to bitch
B) people who are so sure that MGS4 is coming to the 360 not feeling so confident.

 

[Crackerman16]

Man, so much jealousy and trolling in this thread, it's not even funny... ok, maybe a little funny. But more sad than anything.

Some of you Xbots really need a new hobby, other than constantly flaming and trolling on message boards. You already have Halo and Gears. Just be happy with your shooters and let us PlayStation gamers have fun with ours.

 

[Speevy]

Wow, I missed a heck of a thread I'm sure.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Man, so much jealousy and trolling in this thread, it's not even funny... ok, maybe a little funny. But more sad than anything.

Some of you Xbots really need a new hobby, other than constantly flaming and trolling on message boards. You already have Halo and Gears. Just be happy with your shooters and let us PlayStation gamers have fun with ours.

Except it's not just the "Xbots" that do this. Check out the Gabe Newell thread, or the John Carmack thread, for an identical play, with the PS brigade playing the role the Xbots did here, and vice versa. And the Nintendo fans can be just as bad.

Pretty much any piece of news or commentary these days turns into fodder for this type of nonsense. I can't wait for a clear winner, no matter who it might be, so we can at least begin the long march back to sanity.

 

[Busty]

I have honestly no idea what's going on in this thread. What are people discussing, are posters seriously trying to suggest that Kojima is padding out a Blu Ray disc needlessly with sound files? That Kojima could compress (within reason) the entire MGS4 game into a DVD9 but doesn't as he simply can't bothered?

Are there posters out there that are trying to convince us that if MGS4 used, for example, very basic midi music files rather than 7.1 Dolby that the game would still fit on a DVD9? And not even a regular DVD9, a DVD9 with only 7.5 gig of useable space?

:lol - There....are... no... words.....

 

[disappeared]

I left for six hours to go to work, and I was really hoping that this thread would be locked up when I came back. At least Mr. Wednesday got what was coming to him.

 

[Crackerman16]

Except it's not just the "Xbots" that do this. Check out the Gabe Newell thread, or the John Carmack thread, for an identical play, with the PS brigade playing the role the Xbots did here, and vice versa. And the Nintendo fans can be just as bad.

Pretty much any piece of news or commentary these days turns into fodder for this type of nonsense. I can't wait for a clear winner, no matter who it might be, so we can at least begin the long march back to sanity.

Well, I generally don't troll Nintendo and X360 related threads. So I wouldn't know how badly PS fanboys go about their trolling business. All I know is, just about any PS3-related thread I go to, hoping to read some gaming "news," gets turned into a flamefest by a shitload of Xbots and Nintendo trolls, with PS fans on the defense/fighting back.

 

[Speevy]

I have honestly no idea what's going on in this thread. What are people discussing, are posters seriously trying to suggest that Kojima is padding out a Blu Ray disc needlessly with sound files? That Kojima could compress (within reason) the entire MGS4 game into a DVD9 but doesn't as he simply can't bothered?

Are there posters out there that are trying to convince us that if MGS4 used, for example, very basic midi music files rather than 7.1 Dolby that the game would still fit on a DVD9? And not even a regular DVD9, a DVD9 with only 7.5 gig of useable space?

:lol - There....are... no... words.....

I haven't read the thread, but a couple of your facts are wrong.

For one, the Xbox 360 game disc holds 7.05 GB. Not 7.5.

Also, Metal Gear Solid 4, Lair, etc. are in the ballpark of next generation games, so it's not inconceivable that you could either use multiple discs or find a more efficient way to squeeze stuff on a disc. Either way, the Xbox 360 looks to be having no trouble getting its own support, last gen storage aside.

 

[Deadly Monk]

An artist is never happy with what they have, especially in the gaming production world.

It wouldn't matter what system he's working on, he's wanted more power and space just like any other game designer. It won't change in the next console cycle. More power, more expectations, more space needed.

It doesn't matter, most of you are buying this game regardless. I'm surprised more developers aren't complaining. 1-2 years ago you couldn't get a developer to not say "Well, there were a few things we realy wanted to do but couldn't because of hardware limitations..."

 

[Doom_Bringer]

No sir, this forum is done with you. Toodles!

:lol :lol

nice

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Wow, a 50GB game. There will probably be a sickening amount of cinemas with dialog with all of that space. I say bring it on. MGS's storylines are sometimes eccentric yet entertaining and comical at the same time.

 

[neojubei]

Kojima complains about disc capacity: "OMG lazy developer!!!1"
Carmack/Newell complain about multi-threading, RAM, developer tools, and anything else dealing with console development: "OMG geniuses!!11"

So true. I've always thought developers should welcome new technology instead of complaining that it isnt what they are used to. To grow meaning overcoming challenges. Kojima made leaps and bounds on what he did on the ps2.

 

[Busty]

I haven't read the thread, but a couple of your facts are wrong.

For one, the Xbox 360 game disc holds 7.05 GB. Not 7.5..

Thanks for the heads up. I didn't realise that it was 7.05 GB. I stand corrected.

Also, Metal Gear Solid 4, Lair, etc. are in the ballpark of next generation games, so it's not inconceivable that you could either use multiple discs or find a more efficient way to squeeze stuff on a disc. Either way, the Xbox 360 looks to be having no trouble getting its own support, last gen storage aside.

I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at. At no point did I say that the DVD9 was obsolete or that the 360 was having trouble getting it's own support. You can read my post again but I assure I make no such point in it.

The point I was making was that MGS 4 looks to be a very ambitious project from what I've seen and read. With Kojima talking about filling up a Blu Ray fairly quickly my point was that people were raging against something that clearly wasn't the case. I doubt that Kojima would merely pad out a disc simply to enforce Sony's format policy.

I think that this sort of argument exists for arguments sake. No one wants a conclusion, people want the argument.

 

[Wollan]

MGS3 had the best comedy bare none in a game for me. You can't just jump in an expect to laugh but how the dialog builds over time and knowing the persona of Snake, there was a ton of times I was laughing really hard. Like all good games, you wish you could have a savefile for each of those particular moments.

 

[Speevy]

Both hardware and storage medium have one thing in common in that they both require a complex understanding of what kinds of games were and weren't meant for the target system.

If Kojima ever wants to make an Xbox 360 game, hopefully he will pay it the same regard.

 

[DieH@rd]

Not understanding what all of the pissing and bitching is about.
If you have are planning on getting MGS4 then great for you, it wont matter how much space they are going to use.
If you have a PS3, then great for you, no matter how much space they use you are covered.
If you do not and do not plan on getting MGS4, then what the **** does it matter to you how much space they use.

There are only two reasons for all of the bitching:
A) people who bitch just to bitch
B) people who are so sure that MGS4 is coming to the 360 not feeling so confident.

+XP for you.

 

[Speevy]

I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at. At no point did I say that the DVD9 was obsolete or that the 360 was having trouble getting it's own support. You can read my post again but I assure I make no such point in it.

The point I was making was that MGS 4 looks to be a very ambitious project from what I've seen and read. With Kojima talking about filling up a Blu Ray fairly quickly my point was that people were raging against something that clearly wasn't the case. I doubt that Kojima would merely pad out a disc simply to enforce Sony's format policy.

I think that this sort of argument exists for arguments sake. No one wants a conclusion, people want the argument.

You didn't say DVD9 was obsolete. I did. Now assuming that, I took on your assumption that asking a developer to work around limitations was laughable. Outdated hardware and storage mediums have existed in nearly every generation of console gaming. Sony's forward-thinking approach is unprecedented. However, as strong a market performer as the PS2 and PS1 were, the PS3 is just one console. So the challenge will have to be met, and I should hope (given his comments on exclusivity and giving the target platform special consideration), that Kojima realizes this.

Laziness doesn't factor in. But there's usually a way to get a respectable version of any game onto a platform, if history has taught us anything.

 

[Busty]

Both hardware and storage medium have one thing in common in that they both require a complex understanding of what kinds of games were and weren't meant for the target system.

If Kojima ever wants to make an Xbox 360 game, hopefully he will pay it the same regard.

I could not agree more. I made this point in another thread. Kojima's using the space because it's there. If MGS4 was made (exclusively) for the 360, ground up it would be a very different (for better or worse) game.

Friend of mine (who owns a 360) says that he thinks MS will win the console wars as their choice of using DVD9s means that they are wanting to create shorter, more dynamic games, he used Gears Of War as an example.

Personally I don't agree with his theory, but I can see where he's coming from.

 

[Pureauthor]

I can't wait for a clear winner, no matter who it might be, so we can at least begin the long march back to sanity.

Yeah, until the next console (or heck, until the next handheld) launch. Whee.

 

[TTP]

*tries to be funny*

Behold the advantage of having 50GB at your disposal!

Spoiler

*fails*

 

[Speevy]

Yeah well, just try to send Snake a Fizzlybear and see what happens.

 

[Wollan]

Snakes suck. They require a friggin toad to have sex and then their offspring is only worth 300. Useless.

 

[Speevy]

Roarios make lots of babies because they're double-stuffed.

 

[Crackerman16]

/thread end.

 

[davepoobond]

I could not agree more. I made this point in another thread. Kojima's using the space because it's there. If MGS4 was made (exclusively) for the 360, ground up it would be a very different (for better or worse) game.

Friend of mine (who owns a 360) says that he thinks MS will win the console wars as their choice of using DVD9s means that they are wanting to create shorter, more dynamic games, he used Gears Of War as an example.

Personally I don't agree with his theory, but I can see where he's coming from.

i think your friend is on to something...however its not to say that the PS3 can't do the same kinds of games x360 does (shorter, more dynamic games), it'll just be harder to do the "longer, more involved" games like MGS4 on the x360 because of the lack of disc storage even if you use multiple discs without sacrificing things.

 

[LAMBO]

I'd love games to use real life HD video for static things like far off mountains, sky, oceans. BR would help.

 

[TTP]

i think your friend is on to something...

Honestly that was the most stupid thing I've ever heard.

What does actually favour MS and the 360 is the current "multiplatform climate" with devs having to make games that work both on a Core pack and on the PS3. Which means common denominator wins. Which is why MS will never stop pushing core packs. Which is why MS will never ship an HD-DVD 360.

 

[Wollan]

That means Sony 1st/2nd party will just separate themselves even more from the norm showing a quality divide.

 

[PS2 KID]

If Kojima needs a 50gb BD disc because he wants to try something new/different/more technical, let him. I mean he's Kojima. We're just along for the ride. As long as the game has plenty of Snake I'm satisfied.

Now imagine 2 50gb discs, first swapping PS3 game? :lol

 

[TTP]

That means Sony 1st/2nd party will just separate themselves even more from the norm showing a quality divide.

Of course. But will that be enough to push the system ahead of the 360? Will 3rd party publishers feel "challenged" enough to pursue those bounderies Sony keeps pushing back? This is everyone guess.

 

[dirtmonkey37]

I haven't read the thread, but a couple of your facts are wrong.

For one, the Xbox 360 game disc holds 7.05 GB. Not 7.5.

Also, Metal Gear Solid 4, Lair, etc. are in the ballpark of next generation games, so it's not inconceivable that you could either use multiple discs or find a more efficient way to squeeze stuff on a disc. Either way, the Xbox 360 looks to be having no trouble getting its own support, last gen storage aside.

I thought the 360's DVD9's held 9GB (I'm not arguing with you; in fact, you're most likely correct....just want to know if my previous thinking had any truth to it) on a dual-layer disc.....


7.05 seems a bit....small..

 

[momolicious]

wow, people got banned in this thread?

 

[Mar]

If they actually end up using 50gb, I'll be amazed. It wasn't long ago that games were a few K in size.

If the space is there ready to be used on the disc, why the hell not use it.

 

[DCharlie]

christ - the pressure on this game to sell not only itself but sony hardware (if it is remaining a PS3 exclusive) must be absolutely incredible.

I wish Team Kojima all the best.

 

[Wollan]

Personally I have serious doubts of this game making 2007. I mean, I don't even consider it when I think about what I should get this year. My two big xmas games will be Halo 3 and Naughty Dogs title (much more faith in that making this year even though a date hasn't been announced). If MGS4 gets released this year then more power to them but I give that a 40/60. Now, Sony mentioned Killzone for 2007 at CES which is kinda scary (though I'm personally not expecting that one either but I now consider it a possibility which I didn't before).

 

[Trakdown]

God, the bulk of this thread reads like that scene from Oliver Twist.

Kojima (as OT): Please, Sir, I want more.

Certain GAFfers (as evil headmaster): MORE??!!

 

[TTP]

Personally I have serious doubts of this game making 2007. I mean, I don't even consider it when I think about what I should get this year. My two big xmas games will be Halo 3 and Naughty Dogs title (much more faith in that making this year even though a date hasn't been announced). If MGS4 gets released this year then more power to them but I give that a 40/60. Now, Sony mentioned Killzone for 2007 at CES which is kinda scary (though I'm personally not expecting that one either but I now consider it a possibility which I didn't before).

hey, come on, 2007 is a whole 12 months worth! Don't scare me! I want MGS4 THIS YEAR, even if that means on 12/31/07.

 

[elostyle]

This discussion is futile because people have no real understanding of just how much a game's data can be pseudo-artificially enlarged to ease development. Of course having the ability to do so is a good thing. Just like getting a decent performance out of your graphics chip without having to involve the cpu is a good thing as well.
Data layout and organization are a significant part of game engine design and if you expect a lot of space to be available, you can efficiently cut corners by say - just as an example - put a copy of each used texture along each individual level that uses it even though they effectively become duplicates. Just look at the size of the downloadable content for oblivion and you get the idea.

I can assure you that there is no way that MGS4 could not have been made to fit onto a regular DVD (nonsense like lossless audio aside). It's a matter of effort, though I assume if your dev team has never worked on anything besides optical media, that's just the way they learned it. Doesn't mean it's the only way. For people working on GBA or Mobile games, it's a severe issue all the time. Different backgrounds, different solutions.

Yet, for some reason, not dealing competently with storage space limitation on high end platforms is less frowned upon on this message board than other development inconveniences/burdens - like having to spread out your code onto 7 mini processors with their own little address spaces.

I suppose the actual blame for this tedious discussion is to be put on producers that look at the size of their data folders in windows and go tout nonsense like game x wouldn't fit on medium y due to its shear size (while their engineers are probably well aware that it could). Probably also on journalists for passing this stuff on without questioning anything.

 

[Wollan]

Yet, for some reason, not dealing competently with storage space limitation on high end platforms is less frowned upon on this message board than other development inconveniences/burdens - like having to spread out your code onto 7 mini processors with their own little address spaces.

That scenario will be met by any developer who will continue to work on cutting edge platforms for the future. Some are just trying to avoid it as much as possible for now while others dive right in.

 

[garrickk]

I thought the 360's DVD9's held 9GB (I'm not arguing with you; in fact, you're most likely correct....just want to know if my previous thinking had any truth to it) on a dual-layer disc.....


7.05 seems a bit....small..

I thought the 2GB are used up by formatting and encryption - it's about 20% of the data space "wasted" for that (which sounds high). I'm sure the Blu-ray discs have similar requirements. The 50GB storage space of a dual layer probably only yields around 40GB of real storage space.

 

[J-Rzez]

Except it's not just the "Xbots" that do this. Check out the Gabe Newell thread, or the John Carmack thread, for an identical play, with the PS brigade playing the role the Xbots did here, and vice versa. And the Nintendo fans can be just as bad.

I agree what you're saying in other threads... but that Newell thread on the other hand, of course Sony fans are going to enter it... It's about the PS3... It's discussed directly... This on the other hand, technically has NOTHING to do about the 360... MGS4 was never announced for the 360, and just slightly rumoured for... These people came in here saying Kojima is a lazy prick/idiot for wanting EVEN MORE from what Sony is pimping out there, Blu-Ray and storage it'll grant them... and why? Because they feel threatened that they won't get a port... (even though I'm sure they will eventually, well, maybe)... and they can't stand the fact that a Videogame Scene Icon that's 3rd party is giving the nod to Sony...

This thread is just outrageous with the wierdness...

 

[Mrbob]

IF MGS4 is multi disc, I don't care.

I somehow managed to play MGS1 on PS1 with two discs zomg.

Bring on the 8 disc X360 MGS4 port!

I thought the 2GB are used up by formatting and encryption - it's about 20% of the data space "wasted" for that (which sounds high). I'm sure the Blu-ray discs have similar requirements. The 50GB storage space of a dual layer probably only yields around 40GB of real storage space.

There is. DVD is roughly 9GB, and 2GB taken up by security. 7GB usable space.

 

[Scottlarock]

Am I the only one who LOVES multiple-discs? It felt so grand and epic when all of a sudden the screen with "Insert Disc 2..." appeared. It made the game feel so big(time).

I loved when playing a game 3-4 hours and I was still on disk one of a 3 game set rather exciting, knowing I still had two disks still... it made the game feel more epic, but in the same words D2 did suck with the swapping.

 

[jon61586]

Im just wondering does developing on the PS3=develping on the 360?

 

[Avalon]

Im just wondering does developing on the PS3=develping on the 360?

No.

 

[jon61586]

No.

Then why do people think that a set amount of Data on one system translates to that amount on the other? If Im not talking to you then you have no reason to respond other than to agree that development on the PS3 is so different that you can take raw data and automatically translate it to data on the 360. Just my 2 bits.

 

[Mojovonio]

so MGS4 is going to be 2 Blu-ray discs?

 

[davepoobond]

Parasite Eve II was the worst use of 2 discs i've ever seen. 3 hours into the game, you go into the 2nd disc...and if you don't want to play that last area that is only on the 2nd disc, you have to put the first one back in.

so MGS4 is going to be 2 Blu-ray discs?

a single blu-ray disc can have up to 4 layers (theoretically), but 2 layer 50gb discs are actually available for use. it can be up to like 200 gb or something.