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[MickeyKnox]

Jesus Christ what the **** happened in this thread.
Are people actually complaining about tons of ultimate quality audio along with both Japanese and English language tracks on what is sure to be one of the most kick ass games ever?

 

[disappeared]

Jesus Christ what the **** happened in this thread.
Are people actually complaining about tons of ultimate quality audio along with both Japanese and English language tracks on what is sure to be one of the most kick ass games ever?

Yep. I think it's best not to think too hard about it though. What with the brain aneurysms and all that.

 

[Mojovonio]

Jesus Christ what the **** happened in this thread.
Are people actually complaining about tons of ultimate quality audio along with both Japanese and English language tracks on what is sure to be one of the most kick ass games ever?

This isn't a thread about Halo 3...

Spoiler

lol

 

[neojubei]

This isn't a thread about Halo 3...

Spoiler

lol

huh?

 

[Bad_Boy]

Kojima Quote from Gamepro (thanks to Darkon @ b3d)

On working with Blu-ray
"You may hear Blu-ray is huge, gigantic, 20GB or so, but that's not really that big to us. One basic [gameplay] frame with HD visuals and 5.1 sound takes up so much space that the capacity will become too small in no time."

On possibilities with the Wii
"Wii! [laughs] Yes, I want to do it. I'm saying this every day. But first, I have to face this giant that is called Metal Gear Solid 4, so until I'm finished with that, I can't do anything."

On 1080p and HD in MGS4
"We're not the ones who are saying we want HD. I'm not interested, myself, about HD at all. MGS games tend not to care about how clean the screen looks...we deliberately make the graphics look dirtier to give the atmosphere more life."

It's from a GamePro scan, but obviously I cannot post it.

I think it illustrates that the OP article quote may kinda be out of context (he actually says nothing about BD50).


edit:

really interesting quote on MGS sound..

With next-generation consoles, both cinematics and in-game sound will closely resemble those found in Hollywood films," according to Kojima. He fully expects gamers to "be surprised by the quality of sound coming into their ears--the sound will react to their conditions in the 3D world like never before." For example, in the scenario where a bottle falls off a table, hits a metal shovel, and then rolls onto a carpet, conventional sound processing would have the bottle make the same sounds regardless of the environment, or what it collides with. That same scenario on the PlayStation 3 might have the bottle make a metallic tink when it hits the shovel, and then create a muffled rolling sound as it travels across the carpet. If the room had its own sound variables, the bottles sound might get take on some echo if in a bathroom, or get slightly quieter if in a bedroom. Then you have to factor in on-the-fly surround encoding, which would make the bottle pan from front to back or side to side in your room, depending upon the way it rolled.

The Metal Gear Solid team flew around the world to capture specific sounds for environments in the game. The group actually lugged surround-sound audio-recording equipment to capture sounds from undisclosed locations all around the world. Kojima's team also recorded special sound effects just for the game, instead of using prerecorded, CD-based sounds.

The new audio-processing capabilities of the PlayStation 3 allow Kojima and his team to manipulate sound in a variety of different ways. Kojima says that, "With this power, we can give the player a better environment to experience, as the hardware can produce more sounds in real time based on where the player is in a room and what objects are in that room." Last year's Tokyo Game Show trailer emphasized the theme "No place to hide!" and Kojima, as sound director, will do all he can to envelop the player in the world of Metal Gear Solid. "In a battlefield with no place to hide, you will hear impending dangers all around you, in all 360 degrees

 

[Mojovonio]

"You may hear Blu-ray is huge, gigantic, 20GB or so, but that's not really that big to us. One basic [gameplay] frame with HD visuals and 5.1 sound takes up so much space that the capacity will become too small in no time."

Oh come on. Developers are fine with the space given, and he's bitching about it.

 

[TTP]

really interesting quote on MGS sound..

who's Tojima?

edit: ah u edited. but you missed one.

 

[neojubei]

"In a battlefield with no place to hide, you will hear impending dangers all around you, in all 360 degrees

Now you gone and done it.

 

[LJ11]

Kojima Quote from Gamepro (thanks to Darkon @ b3d)

It's from a GamePro scan, but obviously I cannot post it.

I think it illustrates that the OP article quote may kinda be out of context (he actually says nothing about BD50).


edit:

really interesting quote on sound..

That interview was posted on GAF several weeks ago.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136628&highlight=kojima

 

[Bad_Boy]

who's Tojima?

edit: ah u edited. but you missed one.

sneaky sneaky.

had to edit the kojima part a bit, It wasnt me who typed it. More of a copy and paste.

That interview was posted on GAF several weeks ago.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136628&highlight=kojima

Does it mean less now than it did several weeks ago? I think it's worth posting in this thread as well.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Yay folks 50GB for MGS4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! F*cking yeah!!!!

The same for Biohazard 5 & DMC4 also!!!!!!!!

but changing the disc in the middle of the game is hard

 

[LJ11]

Does it mean less now than it did several weeks ago? I think it's worth posting in this thread as well.

I don't disagree. I just find it interesting how that thread only reached 2 pages, but a more sensationalized story caused this thread to balloon to 9 pages.

 

[Grayman]

Sound so good they take away our MGPO sound radar and make the player do it on our own? We can dream.

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

This on the other hand, technically has NOTHING to do about the 360...

1st reply of this thread:

"But DVD9 is more than enough for next gen!"

I doubt it was an "Xbot" who wrote that.

 

[Piper Az]

wouldn't a 50 GB Blu-ray cost more than the 20 GB? Would that affect the MSRP of the game or would either Sony or Konami eat the cost?

 

[MickeyKnox]

wouldn't a 50 GB Blu-ray cost more than the 20 GB? Would that affect the MSRP of the game or would either Sony or Konami eat the cost?

short answer, no.

 

[TTP]

short answer, no.

I'm curious to read the long one.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

I'm curious to read the long one.

Blu-ray has 2 different media available right now.

The differing track pitch of the Blu-ray disc makes its pickup apertures differ, however - 0.65 for HD DVD vs. 0.85 for Blu-ray - thus also making the two pickups technically incompatible despite using lasers of the same type. HD DVD discs also have a different surface layer (the clear plastic layer on the surface of the data - what you get fingerprints and scratches on) from Blu-ray discs. HD DVD use a 0.6 mm-thick surface layer, the same as DVD, while Blu-ray has a much smaller 0.1mm layer to help enable the laser to focus with that 0.85 aperture.

Herein lies the issues associated with the higher cost of Blu-ray discs. This thinner surface layer is what makes the discs cost more; because Blu-ray discs do not share the same surface layer thickness of DVDs, costly production facilities must be modified or replaced in order to produce the discs. A special hard coating must also be applied to Blu-ray discs, so their surface is sufficiently resilient enough to protect the data a mere 0.1mm beneath - this also drives the cost up. The added benefit of keeping the data layer closer to the surface, however, is more room for extra layers (ie, 100gb, 200gb).

 

[THE DUCK]

Since he is saying HD isn't important and the look is grainy, there should be plenty of room for the game on even a dual layer dvd. He proves himself wrong, and takes some sony fanboys on a ride. Keep throwing out the xbot posts....they are humorous.

 

[Yoboman]

Since he is saying HD isn't important and the look is grainy, there should be plenty of room for the game on even a dual layer dvd. He proves himself wrong, and takes some sony fanboys on a ride. Keep throwing out the xbot posts....they are humorous.

:lol

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

Since he is saying HD isn't important and the look is grainy, there should be plenty of room for the game on even a dual layer dvd. He proves himself wrong, and takes some sony fanboys on a ride. Keep throwing out the xbot posts....they are humorous.

:lol

 

[davepoobond]

Since he is saying HD isn't important and the look is grainy, there should be plenty of room for the game on even a dual layer dvd. He proves himself wrong, and takes some sony fanboys on a ride. Keep throwing out the xbot posts....they are humorous.

you're back again? :lol

 

[MickeyKnox]

Since he is saying HD isn't important and the look is grainy, there should be plenty of room for the game on even a dual layer dvd. He proves himself wrong, and takes some sony fanboys on a ride. Keep throwing out the xbot posts....they are humorous.

http://olinooo.ytmnd.com/

 

[Y2Kev]

I have a delicious 24-styled gif I want to use in this thread but I wish not to spoil the show for people. The episode it draws from has aired, but I will restrain myself.

So everyone stop acting stupid so I won't have to use it.

 

[dark10x]

can assure you that there is no way that MGS4 could not have been made to fit onto a regular DVD

When will that barrier be crossed, though? You are essentially suggesting that there is no reason why any game this generation should ever have to cross the 7gb barrier. Do you really believe that to be the case?

There is another issue with the DVD9 and that is layer changing. The crew behind Just Cause commented on this as well, actually. There is a penality for layer changing during data streaming, so you have to be very careful with how you place your data. You end up with two 3.5gb areas that must be organized properly in order to avoid damaging performance. The format places huge limitations on developers. There seems to be a risk that some games may end up suffering performance wise as a result of the layer changing issue.

I'm sure most games will fit within the limitations of the format, but I don't believe for a second that only lazy developers will need to exceed those limitations.

 

[elostyle]

When will that barrier be crossed, though? You are essentially suggesting that there is no reason why any game this generation should ever have to cross the 7gb barrier. Do you really believe that to be the case?

There is another issue with the DVD9 and that is layer changing. The crew behind Just Cause commented on this as well, actually. There is a penality for layer changing during data streaming, so you have to be very careful with how you place your data. You end up with two 3.5gb areas that must be organized properly in order to avoid damaging performance. The format places huge limitations on developers. There seems to be a risk that some games may end up suffering performance wise as a result of the layer changing issue.

I'm sure most games will fit within the limitations of the format, but I don't believe for a second that only lazy developers will need to exceed those limitations.

Sure, the barrier will be crossed for reasons I explained but also if a game chooses to use a lot of FMV I suppose. However, I doubt that it would be a limitation for a game like MGS4. There are other genres I'd expect to run into problems first - games like just cause or oblivion for example. Apparently the developers of the later were well aware of the fact and planned their data management accordingly.

Of course physical layout on the disc is another issue that can be problematic to deal with but PSP developers probably have dibbs on complaining about that one.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

It would obviously make it easier on a 50GB disk and that's probably the only reason he wants it, not because 'omg he's planning a new thing which video games have nevar seen!'

which is the most plausible explanation?

 

[dark10x]

There are other genres I'd expect to run into problems first - games like just cause or oblivion for example

Why, though? Those games re-use so much data to generate their worlds. Those games can get by with much less data due to the way it uses it. A game like MGS4 is going to be created with lots of custom environments and content. They aren't going to be piecing things together based on a handful of textures and models. There is a higher volume of unique content in a Metal Gear title.

In fact, I'd imagine games completely lacking in major story components may even become much larger. I'm sure they'll fit it on a DVD9, but something like UT2007 may actually end up becoming rather large. Gears of War was a large game and filled a DVD9, but only featured 5 unique environments. UT2007 is likely going to present a similar level of detail, but in a much greater quantity. If you have 20 unique packages (textures, models, etc) for a group of maps, that data could become rather large. UT2004 was already massive in size.

More unique content + the need to access that content at a higher speed demands larger media.

 

[Steroyd]

Pop Quiz how many megs do PS3 games in general use?
Motorstorm and Formula 1 i'm interested in particular.

Me being a typical European i can't figure out for myself (you hear that Sony), but I heard that EA used 11GB of data for Need for Speed Carbon.

 

[Borys]

Would it be freaking hilarious if MGS4 shipped on two 25GB Blu-Ray discs?

 

[mckmas8808]

I don't disagree. I just find it interesting how that thread only reached 2 pages, but a more sensationalized story caused this thread to balloon to 9 pages.

Now you understand why Foxnews reports the way they do. :lol :lol :lol

Sensational story with added twist equals 300% more viewers.

 

[rs7k]

I don't think the DVD format will be as limiting as the N64 with cartridges for example.

But in a few years, you'll see PS3 exclusives that are simply impossible to port on 360. MGS4 being one of them, FF13 likely will be one of them.,

That's good and bad for PS3 owners.

Either developers take advantage of the extra capacity if the PS3 market proves to be viable, or the vast majority of games are just port jobs from the 360 (more likely).

/thread

 

[Beer Monkey]

Ultimately the question is will the giant storage be used to create games that look/sound better than the competition, or will it be used for an unprecedented amount of cutscenes.

 

[Busty]

Ultimately the question is will the giant storage be used to create games that look/sound better than the competition, or will it be used for an unprecedented amount of cutscenes.

I imagine Blu Ray means that you can have both.......






Just as long as you can skip through the twenty minute cut scenes.

 

[TTP]

Ultimately the question is will the giant storage be used to create games that look/sound better than the competition, or will it be used for an unprecedented amount of cutscenes.

It'll be filled with hi-res hentai images. You'll be able to actually browse through all of the 75 different jap-softcore magazines that Kojima Team confirmed will be in the game.
Each mag will consist of 130 unique pages, with animating advertising (game is set in the future u know) fed straight in by the PSN.

 

[Lord Error]

How big is Resistance? 16-17GB or something like that? And that's a launch game. Why should anyone be surprised that a year after, one of the most high profile, high production games coming up, could end up being something like 2x size of that?

 

[bud]

How big is Resistance? 16-17GB or something like that? And that's a launch game. Why should anyone be surprised that a year after, one of the most high profile, high production games coming up, could end up being something like 2x size of that?

its obviously because devs are lazy

 

[elostyle]

Why, though? Those games re-use so much data to generate their worlds.

That's why they can get by. Exactly. A measure they took to ensure that they fit on the media. Such reuse of physical assets can have implications on the development process. My example was bad, what I meant is that these genre's would hit the barrier first if they didn't have a system in place. Level based games generally had no need for this ever since the introduction of the CD.

How big is Resistance? 16-17GB or something like that? And that's a launch game. Why should anyone be surprised that a year after, one of the most high profile, high production games coming up, could end up being something like 2x size of that?

I think I'm done arguing here. These threads apparently grow to fast for people to actually read stuff. I'm guilty of that as well.

 

[OokieSpookie]

Oh come on. Developers are fine with the space given, and he's bitching about it.

Who gives a shit?
What is it to you?

 

[Ynos Yrros]

Oh come on. Developers are fine with the space given, and he's bitching about it.

He's not bitching about it, there are 50GB BD discs for PS3, it's the space that's given to him. He doesn't bitch, he says that it's great that he can fill more space.

 

[Finaika]

The new audio-processing capabilities of the PlayStation 3 allow Kojima and his team to manipulate sound in a variety of different ways. Kojima says that, "With this power, we can give the player a better environment to experience, as the hardware can produce more sounds in real time based on where the player is in a room and what objects are in that room." Last year's Tokyo Game Show trailer emphasized the theme "No place to hide!" and Kojima, as sound director, will do all he can to envelop the player in the world of Metal Gear Solid. "In a battlefield with no place to hide, you will hear impending dangers all around you, in all 360 degrees

So does this mean MGS4 will feature regular Dolby Digital 5.1 or will it be the first game to encode the new Dolby stuff (Dolby HD)?

Its nice to see someone pushing sound in videogames to the next level though. Go Kojima!

 

[Shogmaster]

Isn't MGS4 a linear story driven game, no? So who care if it requires multiple DVDs?

BTW, a 26GB games still requires a BR50. Just because it requires BR50 doesn't automatically make it a 50GB game.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

So does this mean MGS4 will feature regular Dolby Digital 5.1 or will it be the first game to encode the new Dolby stuff (Dolby HD)?

Its nice to see someone pushing sound in videogames to the next level though. Go Kojima!

No, advanced codecs like True HD and DTS MA are for movies only. What the PS3 can do for games is uncompressed PCM - which is basically what you get from Tru HD and DTS MA once it's unzipped. You need a good amount of bandwidth for this.

 

[Lord Error]

I think I'm done arguing here. These threads apparently grow to fast for people to actually read stuff. I'm guilty of that as well.

I actually read (I think) all the relevant posts. Someone mentioned Resistance already, and someone else brought up Crysis as a response, but noone actually knows how big of a game Crysis is, how many different environments are there, etc.

 

[Steroyd]

Isn't MGS4 a linear story driven game, no? So who care if it requires multiple DVDs?

BTW, a 26GB games still requires a BR50. Just because it requires BR50 doesn't automatically make it a 50GB game.

From the sounds of it, it sounds like Hideo is making this less linear than the previous Metal Gear Solids

And you are true with that people are jumping to comclusions that it'll be a full 50GB game it would be funny if MGS4 used around 30-35GB and people who hate Hideo so much will go pwned because he didn't use the whole BD50 spec.

Only if he's asking for a 100GB BD disc then we know he's filling BD50 to the brim.

 

[fortified_concept]

Isn't MGS4 a linear story driven game, no? So who care if it requires multiple DVDs?

BTW, a 26GB games still requires a BR50. Just because it requires BR50 doesn't automatically make it a 50GB game.

5+ DVD game for the win! Every chapter and a different DVD. If the story is linear this time. I wonder how the case would look like...

 

[bud]

5+ DVD game for the win! Every chapter and a different DVD. If the story is linear this time. I wonder how the case would look like...

...

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Kojima is great and so is the PS3 and the X360. I like DVDs and maybe even Blu-rays but this thread...not good.

 

[Zombie James]

Pop Quiz how many megs do PS3 games in general use?

So far:

Tony Hawk Project 8 - 5.10GB
Madden NFL 07 - 7.08GB
Resistance: Fall Of Man - 17.53GB
Marvel Ultimate Alliance - 6.85GB
Untold Legends: Dark Kingdom - 8.27GB
NHL 2K7 - 7.86GB
Need For Speed Carbon - 11.5GB
Tiger Woods 2007 - 7.19GB
Fight Night Round 3 - 4.3GB
NBA 2K7 - 7.59GB
Call Of Duty 3 - 6.7GB
Full Auto 2: Battlelines - 3.55GB
Mobile Suit Gundam Crossfire - 3.96GB

 

[Lain]

It'll be filled with hi-res hentai images. You'll be able to actually browse through all of the 75 different jap-softcore magazines that Kojima Team confirmed will be in the game.
Each mag will consist of 130 unique pages, with animating advertising (game is set in the future u know) fed straight in by the PSN.

Finally a game that will fill all that space with worthwhile data! I can't wait for Team Kojima's Hentai Selection (in glorious HD)