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[LiquidMetal14]

I'm rather in the middle. Some of the stuff Kotaku does is noteworthy, other things turn me off. Those things I mainly catch here and observe from a distance. I like the staff overall though. Keep doing you.

 

[Einchy]

...What?
You think it's cool of corporations to refuse to engage with journalists in all cases, no matter what, and somehow that's the fault of the journalists? Especially if they do engage with the journalists of other media publications but only if they suck up to their PR agenda?

These are people who we're talking about, not some sort of PR machine that only sees human interaction as ones and zeroes. If someone keeps making my job harder (In this case Ubisoft's PR) by leaking stuff to the public, then why exactly should I then give them free games and release comments for their stories?

I don't think it's "cool" or not "cool", it's just logical that you're not going to have a professional relationship with a company that keeps doing things that hurt your PR plans.

In every other sort of business you're not expected to burn bridges and then have those pile of ashes be walkable, why do we expect that from game companies?

 

[Neo_Geo]

I don't really like Kotaku all that much, but this is really shitty behavior from publishers.

 

[Quonny]

Yeah, you can see it a lot in the reactions to this piece, too. Which is fine! Nobody has to read or love Kotaku. If you prefer websites that stick to the script and don't do what we do, that's A-OK.

See, this rubs me wrong.

You legitimately seem upset that you're getting blacklisted. But this is what you wanted, right? You want to be unbiased and do your own thing. By being blacklisted, you're free to post what you want.

I think it's utterly ridiculous that you expect to be in cahoots with a company while at the same time leaking things that directly damage them.

So what if they don't respond to questions? Tons of stories across the world have "refused to comment" clauses at the end. So what if you don't get free games? Your journalists can be free of any bias or pressure. So what if you don't get an interview at E3? Your site's focus is on the now, not the future.

I just don't get the attitude of "fuck them" when it seems like being blacklisted is something you'd want.

 

[gamechanger87]

What's more surprising is that many times the leaked stuff serves as a hype machine.

Anyway if you don't want shit leaked, then blame the employees and not the reporter. Its their job to report stuff.

 

[lifa-cobex]

Lol I didn't know this.

10 bucks says the comments section was filled with 'gotta go fast'

http://kotaku.com/5888677/how-i-achieved-greatness-on-a-sonic-the-hedgehog-themed-bed

 

[Prompto]

Bethesda because of the Prey 2 leaks?

Also the Fallout 4 leak from 2013, where everything was spot on.

 

[killroy87]

kotaku has been way better in recent years, but some of the non-staff contributors are awful and bring the site down immeasurably.

They have been much better. It's just a shame that they force an identity crisis upon themselves by counteracting each solid piece with two snack reviews and an article that's literally a snapshot of a tweet. Their need for a steady stream of content is what kills them

 

[Demoskinos]

As much as I generally dislike Kotaku I'm glad there are outlets that aren't afraid to fucking report shit if they have the actual credible information. Nobody should be beholden to these companies fucking stupid marketing plans.

 

[KurtSloane]

We were in a similar situation with one of those publishers for the past year, and it appears we just got a soft blacklisting from another major publisher. Typically what it does is make you double down on digging into them, coming away with a Fuck It attitude and rarely does it have the desired impact from publishers.



So you don't want there to be anything remotely resembling journalism for video games

Leaking announcements is not journalism, its hijacking some of the attention of that announcement.

Leaking details of underhanded dealings, employee treatment etc is worthy of bring called journalistic, leaking information shared in good faith about a new game or project is for clicks.


One is good, the other is bad.

 

[Gsnap]

I don't really see the problem with this on either side. If Kotaku gets their hands on leaks I don't see what's wrong with them publishing an article about them. I personally don't like it because I like the surprise of knowing things when they're properly shown off like at E3 or other places, but I don't see why when people give you info you shouldn't put out that info.

But, I also don't see why it's so bad for the companies to not want to do business with someone who leaks their stuff. I know I wouldn't.

Seems par for the course to me. Everybody made their choice. Now everybody has to live with the consequences. And we the people are exactly where we were before, with none of this really affecting us that much.

 

[Obliterator]

Yeah, you can see it a lot in the reactions to this piece, too. Which is fine! Nobody has to read or love Kotaku. If you prefer websites that stick to the script and don't do what we do, that's A-OK.

Keep leaking this shit out of whatever you get. This industry needs its doors blown open. Its all about a controlled message to make it seem like everything is successful and to strong arm sales to consumers.

Kotaku imo has done some crazy bad opinion pieces and click bait stuff in the past but Jason anything you do thats investigative journalism is the best in the entire gaming industry. No hyperbole. Keep it up man.

 

[Armaros]

See, this rubs me wrong.

You legitimately seem upset that you're getting blacklisted. But this is what you wanted, right? You want to be unbiased and do your own thing. By being blacklisted, you're free to post what you want.

I think it's utterly ridiculous that you expect to be in cahoots with a company while at the same time leaking things that directly damage them.

So what if they don't respond to questions? Tons of stories across the world have "refused to comment" clauses at the end. So what if you don't get free games? Your journalists can be free of any bias or pressure. So what if you don't get an interview at E3? Your site's focus is on the now, not the future.

I just don't get the attitude of "fuck them" when it seems like being blacklisted is something you'd want.

Maybe he is like that because the general gaming population on the internet demand 'journalism' but also demand that journalists handle their favorite gaming companies with kiddie gloves because they love their games.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

What really pisses me off is how game companies will show off new games and projects to the press, then PREVENT them from even talking about it.

That isn't how journalists are supposed to work. All these sites are under the boot-heel of games companies and their NDAs.

Embargoes of embargoes of embargos. Its fucking stupid.

Journalists aren't supposed to play nicey nice with big business. They are supposed to report to the public, all the good and all the bad, whether the big business likes it or not.

You're being unreasonable.
So you'd rather game companies don't show anything to journalists at all?

 

[ultron87]

Good work, Kotaku!

The fact that the publishers are just ghosting them seems kind of silly. Not even the courtesy of a breakup email? Ubi please.

 

[TwoDurans]

Any company is well within their rights to block whomever they want from receiving their official materials. For all we know this could be due to not wanting to be in business with Gawker Media, instead of not trusting Kotaku's "journalists".

 

[Rahvar]

That's just as bullshit a reason. Tons of big outlets leak info about new tech when it comes available (I mean how many "New iPhone leaks" have you seen?), and you don't see them getting blacklisted.

Actually Apple is reallt vindictive about leaks. The journalists/bloggera Apple favour work to keep in their favor.

Not a fan of Kotaku, if the companies blacklisted them because of repeated leaks I can understand it.
If the blacklisting is for low review scores? Thats some BS from 10 years ago.

 

[Glass Shark]

Getting blacklisted by a publisher is a surefire sign that you're doing something right. Kotaku is one of the few gaming sites that does actual "journalism" in the dictionary sense of the word.

 

[Vyse The Legend]

I'm rather in the middle. Some of the stuff Kotaku does is noteworthy, other things turn me off. Those things I mainly catch here and observe from a distance. I like the staff overall though. Keep doing you.

Until the online advertising model changes, it will always be this way, quality content sitting alongside Brian Ashcraft's cosplay post of the week. It's the nature of the beast, but I applaud Kotaku for, at least, trying to maintain some dignity with quality reporting.

 

[Balmung421]

Wonder if this will happen with more games journalism outlets. Seems that these game company PR folks would rather solicit youtube/twitch personalities for their marketing strategies, leaving sites like Kotaku behind.

Tony Hawk and Overwatch are two examples where I didn't see any games media get access to them as early as twitch people did, which I don't agree with.

The best part of games journalism is that they give us info that should be known publicly, but how they also serve as unbiased critics. It is still really hard for me to take these youtube/twitch people seriously when they review/cover a product because of how easy it is for them to be swayed/biased in some way (early access, free swag, etc).

Keep fighting the good fight, Kotaku. Love you guys.

 

[Lunar15]

Don't really care about whether leaking or blacklisting are right or wrong, but lol at Kotaku for trying to pass off "leaking news about upcoming video game" as the "truth" the masses need.

You really broke new ground when you told people Fallout would be set in Boston.

 

[serenewarfare]

Leaking announcements is not journalism, its hijacking some of the attention of that announcement.

Leaking details of underhanded dealings, employee treatment etc is worthy of bring called journalistic, leaking information shared in good faith about a new game or project is for clicks.


One is good, the other is bad.

No matter how you judge the idea of leaking something, it's still ridiculous that Kotaku is being blacklisted over it. Every industry has leaks, so why does the gaming industry get to throw their weight around when other industries don't?

Actually Apple is reallt vindictive about leaks. The journalists/bloggera Apple favour work to keep in their favor.

Not a fan of Kotaku, if the companies blacklisted them because of repeated leaks I can understand it.
If the blacklisting is for low review scores? Thats some BS from 10 years ago.

They are vindictive about the source of a leak from an internal perspective (FOXCONN and such), but the sites that report on those leaks are plentiful and those same sites are the ones invited and showing up to their keynotes.

 

[zeitgeist]

Getting blacklisted by a publisher is a surefire sign that you're doing something right. Kotaku is one of the few gaming sites that does actual "journalism" in the dictionary sense of the word.

Pretty sure that this idea is the sole reason why they posted this article. They want to seem hard-hitting but in reality, it's still just a game blog.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

What really pisses me off is how game companies will show off new games and projects to the press, then PREVENT them from even talking about it.

That isn't how journalists are supposed to work. All these sites are under the boot-heel of games companies and their NDAs.

Embargoes of embargoes of embargos. Its fucking stupid.

Journalists aren't supposed to play nicey nice with big business. They are supposed to report to the public, all the good and all the bad, whether the big business likes it or not.

This is how it works in every industry. You really think journalists get all their info right at the time of reporting? Yet somehow have time to write up articles, reviews and impressions in time for the general public reveal? This has always been the case.

With that said, I find embargoes on reviews, impressions, etc until the public RELEASE pretty scummy, but I differentiate reveals from releases and am more understanding on forced holding off of the former than I am the latter.

Again, I'll repeat. If this was a blacklist for review scores or negative articles that would be one thing, but for showing off pre-release WIP game screenshots (we all know how gamers react to screenshots regardless of the state of the game's development) or game announcements being held off until events (imagine an entire E3 conference leaked)? That's justifiable annoyance on the part of companies

 

[Moondrop]

Translation: activists who belittle their own readership shunned by game companies.

 

[Deasnutz]

Kotaku used to be more powerful and played better with the devs and publishers, there was some respect and good will. I do think the gawker co has squandered most of that with a negative/tabloid persona. At the same time, they are one of the more newsworthy gaming sites. I need more than gaming review to keep me interested.

 

[dan2026]

You're being unreasonable.
So you'd rather game companies don't show anything to journalists at all?

I'd rather not feel that journalists are forever under the boot of big business.

'Step out of line and we'll blacklist you!'
'We are going to show you stuff, but you can't report on it because WE say so!'

Like there is a constant threat in the air.

 

[jmizzal]

Blacklist Bethesda and Ubisoft? Good plan!

But there wouldnt be many threads, without all the Fallout 4 threads lol

 

[Maztorre]

AAA companies don't owe you anything. This is how legitimate journalism works. There is nothing that dictates you are entitled to press events or early copies. How could you, Kotaku, say in the same sentence that you "refuse to act as publishers' marketing arms" but complain that you don't have privileged access?

Games will release regardless, let your writing/reporting stand on it's own and not use privileged access as a crutch.

Kotaku are not the party that did anything wrong here. They received information and reported it, that is the fucking core of their role as journalists.

Film studios do not blacklist newspapers from coverage because of negative reviews or leaked set photos etc. Bethesda and Ubisoft, however, are so desperate to control their messaging (since they are reliant on the bullshit hype cycle they have built to generate preorders) that they will throw a hissy fit when the press does something other than participate in the hype cycle.

 

[Bluenoser]

The thing that bothers me is that there are insiders leaking information like this in the first place. No one needs to be told how bad, not to mention illegal this is. Can we put the blame on Kotaku for running with it? Well, frankly yes. They are participating in an illegal disclosure of confidential information. There's a very good reason why most emails from anyone within a corporation comes with the following:

This e-mail message (including attachments, if any) is confidential and may be privileged. Any unauthorized distribution or disclosure is prohibited. Disclosure to anyone other than the intended recipient does not constitute waiver of privilege. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us and delete it and any attachments from your computer system and records.

The employees providing Kotaku with this information are in the wrong, and should be punished accordingly. Responsible journalists would seek out a statement from the company, and vet the information first before releasing to the public, but most of all, make sure they have permission to do so.

I like Kotaku, but what Stephen has just done is admit that his site is guilty of a lack of ethics at best, and a crime at worst.

 

[Into]

Excellent, no need to placate a online "rag" publication.

Anything sent to Kotaku is much better sent to prominent Youtubers and Twitch streamers, at least with them, your game will speak the loudest and not ideology or politics. Which are the last things you want associated with a product you are trying to sell to a wide audience.

 

[Lime]

Translation: activists who belittle their own readership shunned by game companies.

Belittle their own readership? When and where did they ever do that?

 

[Cartman86]

Figured this was the Ubisoft practice since the EGM AC1 review thing.

 

[FlyingSaucer]

As someone who used to dislike Kotaku but is profoundly glad to see how the site has improved itself these past years, I say congratulations to you Kotaku !

Something is profoundly rotten when companies punish you for being something better than merely their marketing arm.

 

[killroy87]

Don't really care about whether leaking or blacklisting are right or wrong, but lol at Kotaku for trying to pass off "leaking news about upcoming video game" as the "truth" the masses need.

Exactly. They keep leaning on this "we won't conform to the hype machine" argument, but that's not always what their articles are doing. Leaking company emails about a game in production that's so early it might not even get greenlit isn't "acting against the hype machine", that's just straight up sticking your nose where it doesn't belong to leak information that will potentially benefit absolutely no one (except your site).

 

[IcyStorm]

I hate leaks, they're awful.

If I was working on a game Id want to present it to the public when its ready and not when some dumb Kotaku "journalists" think its ready.

So fuck em, honestly.

Like when they leaked the Fallout 4 voice actor documents, spoiling us on the setting and more of the game years before it was even announced.

Does it make a difference that you knew it was set in Boston a couple of years before Bethesda made it clear it was set in Boston at E3 several months before the game's release?

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Lazy way to dismiss Kotaku.

Translation: activists who belittle their own readership shunned by game companies that respect gamers.

Respect? lol

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

Why is this a surprise after the "Scrolls" incident?

I guess more like a moment of me forgetting about that as it wasn't fresh on my mind and then I saw that and was like...wel damn, now I remember how lame this company can be.

 

[Jarmel]

I don't need evidence. It is my opinion that Kotaku is basically 'tabloid game journalism' and don't view this blacklisting as all that big of a deal. Have they had a few good pieces? Yeah sure I admit that.

But things like National Enquirer and the like have had good pieces but we still consider them tabloids at the end of the day.

What the fuck is this?

 

[Lime]

Excellent, no need to placate a online "rag" publication.

Anything sent to Kotaku is much better sent to prominent Youtubers and Twitch streamers, at least with them, your game will speak the loudest and not ideology or politics. Which are the last things you want associated with a product you are trying to sell to a wide audience.

fucking lol. Keep humping that status quo

 

[Real Hero]

Excellent, no need to placate a online "rag" publication.

Anything sent to Kotaku is much better sent to prominent Youtubers and Twitch streamers, at least with them, your game will speak the loudest and not ideology or politics.

That's because most youtubers won't understand the basic concepts of ideology or politics

 

[Ombala]

Respect to Kotaku there is nothing worse then sites that bends over to publishers.

 

[Fhtagn]

People keep conflating two separate aspects of this story:

1. Kotaku isn't getting promos from these companies any more.

2. Kotaku isn't recieving a reply to any questions/story follow up, blacklisted from talking to devs or anyone, regardless of the story.

I'm pretty sure Kotaku don't give much of a shit about the first one. The second one on the other hand is childish bullshit.

 

[kuroneko0509]

The thing that bothers me is that there are insiders leaking information like this in the first place. No one needs to be told how bad, not to mention illegal this is. Can we put the blame on Kotaku for running with it? Well, frankly yes. They are participating in an illegal disclosure of confidential information. There's a very good reason why most emails from anyone within a corporation comes with the following:

This e-mail message (including attachments, if any) is confidential and may be privileged. Any unauthorized distribution or disclosure is prohibited. Disclosure to anyone other than the intended recipient does not constitute waiver of privilege. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us and delete it and any attachments from your computer system and records.

The employees providing Kotaku with this information are in the wrong, and should be punished accordingly. Responsible journalists would seek out a statement from the company, and vet the information first before releasing to the public, but most of all, make sure they have permission to do so.

I like Kotaku, but what Stephen has just done is admit that his site is guilty of a lack of ethics at best, and a crime at worst.

This, NDAs exist for a reason, and if you're violating that in any way, that's speaks to your professional integrity and merit.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

Translation: activists who belittle their own readership shunned by game companies.

Publishers' press releases can be read directly on gamasutra (among others) if that's what you're looking for in gaming coverage.

 

[DeepEnigma]

That's because most youtubers won't understand the basic concepts of ideology or politics

LOL

 

[tuxfool]

The employees providing Kotaku with this information are in the wrong, and should be punished accordingly. Responsible journalists would seek out a statement from the company, and vet the information first before releasing to the public, but most of all, make sure they have permission to do so.

I like Kotaku, but what Stephen has just done is admit that his site is guilty of a lack of ethics at best, and a crime at worst.

You think that they don't?

Lol at asking permission.

 

[serenewarfare]

People keep conflating two separate aspects of this story:

1. Kotaku isn't getting promos from these companies any more.

2. Kotaku isn't recieving a reply to any questions/story follow up, blacklisted from talking to devs or anyone, regardless of the story.

I'm pretty sure Kotaku don't give much of a shit about the first one. The second one on the other hand is childish bullshit.

Shh... keep your logic out of this mob.

 

[Griss]

If I was a large publisher I think I'd want to blacklist Kotaku just for the Gawker association alone. They're my least favourite series of sites online, I absolutely can't stand them and would not want to support them in any way whatsoever.

 

[LTWood12]

Excellent, no need to placate a online "rag" publication.

Anything sent to Kotaku is much better sent to prominent Youtubers and Twitch streamers, at least with them, your game will speak the loudest and not ideology or politics. Which are the last things you want associated with a product you are trying to sell to a wide audience.

I can't tell if this is spot-on parody or if you're actually serious.

 

[inky]

Are there any signs it's hurting Bethesda's business?

Kotaku had the vast majority of the Fallout 4 leaks, yet that game seems to be doing fine.

I don't think there are any signs, no.

I did point out that Bethesda management is notoriously shitty, so expanding a bit on that to make it more clear what I meant, stuff like the Prey 2 development issues painted them in a bad light. They are also notoriously litigious, so my guess is they don't have a lot of patience and are aggressive towards protecting themselves. This might just be another example of that.