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[Flame Lord]

Thats not really true though...

All of that is story progression for sure, but none of it led them to the realization of who the "real" killer was. Most of the evidence they used to find him out was found after Naoto's (being able to inconspicuously deliver a letter, Nanako trusting them and letting them in, Adachi's reaction to Namatame's notebook).

Even then though the brilliance of Persona 4's story is that all of that might be solved but the 'real' twist has existed right in from of you from the very beginning, the reveal of Izanami is absolutely brilliant and unlike the 'true' villian of Persona 5 is properly foreshadowed ahead of time.

I don't really see how you could say that, P5's villian is way more foreshadowed than P4's.

 

[Lynx_7]

Even then though the brilliance of Persona 4's story is that all of that might be solved but the 'real' twist has existed right in from of you from the very beginning, the reveal of Izanami is absolutely brilliant and unlike the 'true' villian of Persona 5 is properly foreshadowed ahead of time.

Have we really started calling P4's true final boss brilliant? It wasn't well foreshadowed at all in the original P4.

 

[Aselith]

Edit: NM you guys are on that semantic grind

 

[Serenitynow]

I think it is a good headline. /shruggie

I think it's a good headline for an opinion piece. The "Amirite" part specifically makes it clear that the headline in particular is hyperbole.

 

[silva1991]

Being better than the dungeons in 3 and 4 is not a great achievement.

No shit!

The fact that they are good and most actually praised them remains.

They are generally considered one of the high points of the game.

 

[Cobalt03]

Like stupid people, kotaku always thinks itself smart

 

[Novel Mike]

Have we really started calling P4's true final boss brilliant? It wasn't well foreshadowed at all in the original P4.

Yes it was and its foreshadowed better in the original. In the original when you shake hands with Izanami at the beginning (the gas attendant) the controller will rumble, its repeated when the twist is revealed calling back that scene from the very beginning of the game. Then you have the school trip where one of the P3 teachers tells you the story of Izanagi and Izanami. Izanagi being Yu's persona instantly made me think 'Then where is Izanami in this game?'

 

[Mattakuevan]

P5 is an amazing game, easily contender for goty.

I personally felt the story and characters were great. Not as good as 4 but still pretty great. Everyhing else was a major improvement for the series.

 

[psynergylover]

Major spoiler warning:



It's not meant to be a surprise.

Spoiler

The twist is that the party knew about it, and it's more of a red herring to the other twist in the game

I would say it was poorly executed as the gang didn't trust that person from the start, them turning the tables was expected and lessened the impact as it would've been better if the player didn't see

Spoiler

Akechi being the culprit from nearly the moment he walked in stage.

Persona 4 did a better job at at least throwing

Spoiler

Mitsuo and Namatame

at you to cover

Spoiler

Adachi's crimes

 

[Banana Aeon]

The story in both 4 and 5 are awful. I don't understand how anyone could say they were handled well in any way.

I have some form of a soft spot for some of the P5 cast where the P4 cast should stay in some sunken place forever.

P5 is easy to sink time into, where P4 had me questioning why I was even playing the game.

 

[PrimeBeef]

Nope, an opinion piece is something specific- it's an often knowingly controversial and polemical piece of writing which is usually trying to make a particular point.

A review is still an opinion.

 

[MaximumSpider]

After two full playthroughs, 195 hours and the platinum trophy, I don't agree.
I was a little sad to leave that awesome world behind. Would love to go back for DLC or an expanded version.

Yup, currently on my third playthrough on Merciless with 220 hours in. Love this game!

 

[LotusHD]

Welp... can't say I really disagree with anything they've said. That said, generally speaking, my issues were namely everything after the flash forwards ended. Some say the game sucks after the Kamoshida arc, but for me, I thought it was pretty good up to the 4th palace. Then it just got steadily worse for me, culminating to a point where I'm just wishing the game would hurry up and end during its final, which is the worst way to feel about a game, much less one I've spent so much time on.

I feel like there's a backlash from games that waste some people's time. Like "I played 100 hours for this??"

I dunno about wasting my time, but uhh, if I spend 90+ hours on a game, it is pretty disheartening if I beat said game and just feel meh about the whole affair. Just a lot of stuff could've been streamlined at the very least, that would've helped out a bunch.

 

[mobilesworking]

What I hate about this headline is not that it's clickbait but that it makes no attempt to engage readers who might disagree with the author's analysis. It invites those with an axe to grind to join the author's echo chamber. For everyone else, the headline provides an excuse to skip the article -- or worse, skip the article but blast Kotaku anyhow.

 

[MoonFrog]

What I hate about this headline is not that it's clickbait but that it makes no attempt to engage readers who might disagree with the author's analysis. It's an echo chamber for those who agree with the author's criticisms; for everyone else, it's an excuse to skip the article -- or worse, skip the article but blast Kotaku anyhow.

Not going to lie, I skipped the article. I'm just here because people are going to talk about P5 wrt P3, P4, air complaints and defenses of the games or a particular one, and so on and I have opinions on those things.

But yeah click bait title is going to drive me away from clicking the actual article .

 

[Dantis]

That's a really obnoxious title for a solid opinion piece.

A lot of what he says is true, but I still enjoyed it a lot.

 

[Shaanyboi]

I too am upset that someone said something mean about my videogame!

 

[PhantomThief]

Having never played a Persona game before,P5 is my GOTY.

 

[mrmyhthef]

I don't get how can people deride P5's dungeons for being long and tedious and at the same time praise Eridanus. At least they didn't give me a migraine.

Just in general I don't like Mario Maker-esque "pick a door" dungeon design. P5's dungeons kept that to a minimum meaning I thought they were actually fairly painless to get through.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Someone has a negative view of Persona 5. BURN THEM!

I haven't played the game, but this article corroborate almost exactly with the things I've heard about the game that makes me want to stay away.

Nier Automata was a much better use of my time this spring

 

[DalikSkywing]

Im not going to say it's a good game when those disgusting homophobic scenes exist.

 

[ChrisD]

I'm fine with someone not liking X or Y, but the Battle system was great. Don't know what they're saying with that point. It's what kept me going through the dungeons, the want to fight more enemies. I even went to Mementos for two hours straight one day just to grind. Not because I needed to, but because the battle system is fun.

 

[Sammy Samusu]

The lashings.

I was excited to play P5 but word of mouth has been terrible.

Hopefully they can fix the game for the re-release.

And for a 100h game they better fix iT real good.

 

[Toxi]

Persona 5 comes in like Garth Marenghi and makes it terrible.

Is it wrong that the main thing I got from this article is that someone remembers Garth Marenghi's Darkplace exists?

 

[Lifeline]

Lol that tile, people here seriously defending that clickbait shit.

 

[Bronetta]

Absolutely trash article. If Kotaku is willing to feature this garbage I say we should ban them here. No quality control at all.

The lashings.

I was excited to play P5 but word of mouth has been terrible.

Hopefully they can fix the game for the re-release.

And for a 100h game they better fix iT real good.

Have you seen the review scores? Its GotY for many people including mine. Persona 5 is the most successful Persona yet which brought in new users and its obviously not what they were expecting.

 

[The Greek Freak]

Persona 5 was shit but at least Persona has been good in the past unlike Kotaku.

Sad that the Gawker sites weren't permanently killed by Thiel/Hogan even if they suck themselves.

 

[Realeza]

Im not going to say it's a good game when those disgusting homophobic scenes exist.

Don't be fucking ridiculous.

 

[Muffdraul]

As someone who doesn't give two shits about Persona, they have my ax.

 

[Zukkoyaki]

The lashings.

I was excited to play P5 but word of mouth has been terrible.

Hopefully they can fix the game for the re-release.

And for a 100h game they better fix iT real good.

A few disappointed nerds on a forum =/= The general consensus. Usually those who were unsatisfied or disappointed in something are most willing to speak up about it.

P5 has its issues, but in reality the overwhelming majority of folks really enjoy it. Look at Uncharted 4. It was voted GAF's game of the year last year despite people complaining about it left and right.

 

[Mik317]

Not finished yet (at the 7th palace boss)...but yeah while I am enjoying it immensely (unlike others in this thread I don't play games I hate for 85 fucking hours), it has its flaws. The Midpoint is just a drag and the characters start to act reeeeal stupid during said midpoint, the pacing issues and overly long dungeons and their various gimmicks over stay their welcome at this point too. Its going to be a major hurdle for a lot of people....but after that, the game picks up again big time (IMO).

I will say though, I prefer P4's cast to this one...it feels like you got more chances outside of SLs to hang out with them for one but they all also had stuff to do. Ryuji is relegated for the most part to yelling. Ann is just there for a bulk of the game and as previously mentioned Haru could easily not exist at all. Makoto and Yusuke are fine by virtue of being best girl and best boy respectively and Futaba's skills and "quirkiness" adds to her role. Morgana is "fine" I guess....I am hoping he does have a pay off in the end tho.

But the Dark Souls 3 reference earlier does come into play. Its more of the same Persona 3/4 formula with a different coat of paint, story, and some gameplay improvements (each which also brings some downsides with them IMO)...which is great for me (again 85 hours so far) but definitely shows its time to switch it up again...something I never thought I'd say when I started it.

 

[Abylim]

I feel the opposite.

It's the best RPG I have played in years. I loved nearly all of the characters, and the story seemed to have a perfect pace.

Feels like a step up from P4, and is my GOTY so far.

That being said, I get how things aren't for everyone. My dad has seen me playing this a lot and wants to try it out. hes definitely more of an fps kinda guy, but I guess we shall see

 

[Toxi]

Persona 5 was shit but at least Persona has been good in the past unlike Kotaku.

Sad that the Gawker sites weren't permanently killed by Thiel/Hogan even if they suck themselves.

What a shit post.

Kotaku has hosted plenty of great journalism on the industry.

 

[Shengar]

Lol that tile, people here seriously defending that clickbait shit.

"The game doesn't click with me but I need some validation to support my terribly articulated view that the game is bad"

======


Meh, the opinion piece is pretty trash in a way that the writer never ALWAYS compared Persona 5 to its predecessor without even considering the context of the game itself. It's bad because it doesn't resemble Persona 4 simplistic-but-great story and theme. Not only that, the writer failed the grasp the subtle nuances that shown throughout the story and character interaction, which if they do makes their complaint untrue. I do understand though if people couldn't catch what makes Persona 5 great because the story is deeply rooted in Japan's current state of their society.

tl;dr it's a Persona 4 rose tinted opinion piece on Persona 5.

What a shit post.

Jason Schreier has hosted plenty of great journalism on the industry.

Fix'd

Jason is a great journalist, but most of his peers are absolute lowest.

 

[Sammy Samusu]

Have you seen the review scores? Its GotY for many people including mine. Persona 5 is the most successful Persona yet which brought in new users and its obviously not what they were expecting.

Have you seen the review score for XIII? Or games that scored low and should have scored higher?

Reviews can't always be trusted.

You are right about newcomers. Didn't think of that.

A few disappointed nerds on a forum =/= The general consensus. Usually those who were unsatisfied or disappointed in something are most willing to speak up about it.

P5 has its issues, but in reality the overwhelming majority of folks really enjoy it. Look at Uncharted 4. It was voted GAF's game of the year last year despite people complaining about it left and right.

P5 sold a lot in the first month then dropped like a rock. You can tell that word of mouth wasn't good right from the start. People don't talk about it, and when they do, it's to drag it.

Compare that to games with good word of mouth like Splatoon, Xenoblade or even Persona 4.

 

[MaximumSpider]

Careful not to fall for it

 

[Thornton Reed]

Considering garth marenghi is the greatest thing ever made this must mean persona 5 is brilliant

 

[E_Darkness]

The piece actually has some valid points but people are just dismissing it because of the title. It's fine, it'll be okay when we get to Persona 10 and it's Persona 10/10.

 

[Zukkoyaki]

P5 sold a lot in the first month then dropped like a rock. You can tell that word of mouth wasn't good right from the start. People don't talk about it, and we they do, it's to drag it.

1. People do talk about it
2. It's easy to think that if you only pay attention to the negative and ignore the positive (which there's a ton of in this very thread)

And lots of games with great word of mouth still sell poorly. Look at Yakuza 0 in the west. Nothing but adoration for it on here yet It's only sold around 100k total in the west since January. I say this as someone who also loved that game.

 

[Flame Lord]

Have you seen the review score for XIII? Or games that scored low and should have scored higher?

Reviews can't always be trusted.

You are right about newcomers. Didn't think of that.


P5 sold a lot in the first month then dropped like a rock. You can tell that word of mouth wasn't good right from the start. People don't talk about it, and when they do, it's to drag it.

Compare that to games withhold word of mouth like Splatoon, Xenoblade or even Persona 4.

So all the positive reviews don't matter for shit? Just the small amount of people bitching on forums? And of course the sales sank like a rock, it's still a niche JRPG, but the fact that it ever charted at all is pretty impressive.

 

[E_Darkness]

So all the positive reviews don't matter for shit? Just the small amount of people bitching on forums? And of course the sales sank like a rock, it's still a niche JRPG, but the fact that it ever charted at all is pretty impressive.

Sales sank fast because it sold through it's stock and wasn't available for like over a month later physical.

Spoiler

and that it is a niche rpg about anime highschool

 

[PK Gaming]

tl;dr it's a Persona 4 rose tinted opinion piece on Persona 5.

I like how the article opens with that fan-favorite P4 art. The article is about as unsubtle as it can get, though that doesn't mean the article doesn't have good points (they do).

 

[ToonLink]

I agree to an extent. I've yet to finish it despite getting it at launch. I've had to stop playing twice so far. The story hasn't kept my interest at all after around the middle of the second dungeon, and I only enjoyed the first and fifth dungeons. The rest just felt bland and were a chore to get through. Still, I want to finish it, hopefully soon. Despite my complaints there are a lot of things I do like about the game, and I want to see it through to the end. I'm definitely let down so far, though, and people saying the ending isn't great is a bit concerning.

I don't think the game is a 5/10 by any means, though.

 

[jschreier]

Hey just to be clear since many of you appear to be confused, Kotaku UK is an entirely different editorial organization than Kotaku, run by a different company. Although Kotaku UK licenses posts (and a name) from Kotaku, they are autonomous, with their own standards and editorial guidelines.

Their editor Keza MacDonald is also one of the best reporters in the field (you may recall she broke the Scorpio story with me), although she's been on maternity leave for the past year.

 

[RalchAC]

All of that is story progression for sure, but none of it led them to the realization of who the "real" killer was. Most of the evidence they used to find him out was found after Naoto's (being able to inconspicuously deliver a letter, Nanako trusting them and letting them in, Adachi's reaction to Namatame's notebook).



I don't really see how you could say that, P5's villian is way more foreshadowed than P4's.

Yeah, if he has played the previous entries and didn't catch it, it's his fault not the game's.

I mean, it's okay to like P4 more. Persona 4 is a game that's made to be loved, much more than Persona 5.

But saying characters are bad in P5 is wrong imo. I found the cast in 5 good and believable. Teens are whiny by nature, so give them a legitimate reason to be butthurt and see what happens. They saying stuff like "shitty adults" was quite believable to me. The game is rather juvenile at times, but that's the point. You can't have a bunch of teens fucked up by people in positions of power, that are given the power to change people's hearts and have them sitting and discussing for 5 hours the moral ramifications of doing the job with a cup of coffee.

When it comes to dealing with certain types of problems, teens just don't have the full toolset.

 

[Thud]

Yep, the only reason P4 'keeps you guessing' as to who the murderer is, is because the investigation group literally makes 0 progress until the last part of the game

That's because naoto and yu have to pull all that weight around. It's like everyone is okuyasu.

 

[HeeHo]

Man, I think P5 deserves more credit. My only major beef is that the there is a bit too much dialogue even compared to the previous games.

I think it easily has the best battle system, social link system, and even the demon fusing has improved. They also made an effort to make real dungeons this time even if they aren't the best by modern standards.

I enjoyed the aesthetics too way more than any of the previous games (especially the demons) with the calendar system. I did not think the overall story was great, maybe just good. There were some legit shockers that not even the previous games had.

 

[The Wheel of Fortune]

I found the cast in 5 good and believable. Teens are whiny by nature, so give them a legitimate reason to be butthurt and see what happens. They saying stuff like "shitty adults" was quite believable to me. The game is rather juvenile at times, but that's the point. You can't have a bunch of teens fucked up by people in positions of power, that are given the power to change people's hearts and have them sitting and discussing for 5 hours the moral ramifications of doing the job with a cup of coffee.

When it comes to dealing with certain types of problems, teens just don't have the full toolset.

Exactly.

The Persona 5 squad felt powerless against the adults because they suffered from their decisions and couldn't do anything to battle against them. The fact that they acquired a power from who-knows-where to finally get some sort of justice doesn't automatically make them more mature or level-headed, they're still who they were before. Hell, it was refreshing to see such a well-constructed cast like that, even if it didn't reach the heights set by the Persona 4 cast.

And the characters are interesting and have a great group dynamic. They don't get as interestingly personal as Persona 4's, but they ar e a ton better than the cardboard cutouts of P3 (besides Junpei, he was interesting)

I don't know if it's nostalgia acting on me or something, but the characters from Persona 3 were a lot more interesting and complex to me because of the great way the story was presented. Shit dungeon aside, it's still a pretty good game.

 

[Lynx_7]

P5 sold a lot in the first month then dropped like a rock. You can tell that word of mouth wasn't good right from the start. People don't talk about it, and when they do, it's to drag it.

Compare that to games with good word of mouth like Splatoon, Xenoblade or even Persona 4.

Alright, since this sentiment has been expressed in a few threads on GAF, let's put that claim to the test. First, let's search for a game that had significant backlash against it, I'll go with Final Fantasy XIII. You can notice the user score is much lower than the critics average, which isn't the case for P5, who boasts a 9.0, putting it pretty close to its critical reception. I could bring up other sites with aggregate user scores such as GameFAQS (3.73[ PS3] vs 4.56), or MyVideoGameList which has them at 6.7 vs 9.4 respectively. In fact, you could also compare it to other critical/fan darlings such as Horizon, Nier: Automata, Nioh, and Breath of the Wild, and the only one who consistently ranked better than P5 on both critical and user reception was, unsurprisingly, Breath of the Wild. By all concrete metrics available, it's the second best received game of the year.

If we're going with more abstract measurements, then there's really no way to quantify this sort of stuff. There are going to be positive and negative posts about it, and that's that. I could tell you, from a purely anecdotal point of view, many people I know who tried the game loved it. The subreddit has a lot of activity, and there are plenty of fanart and cosplay to go around. So... is this about GAF, specifically? Well, you could argue the game has many critics here, but even then you also have many people who loved it, some listing it as their favorite, others not. NeoGAF GOTY nominations remain to be seen, but I would be very surprised if it didn't rank highly there. Bad word of mouth is certainly not how I would describe P5's reception, but I rest my case.

EDIT: Also, for whatever that's worth, Yahtzee, who notoriously hates everything JRPG not called Paper Mario and Earthbound, also liked the game. Dunkey expressed similar thoughts. I'm only singling them out because I've seen other people express similar thoughts.

 

[RalchAC]

Exactly.

The Persona 5 squad felt powerless against the adults because they suffered from their decisions and couldn't do anything to battle against them. The fact that they acquired a power from who-knows-where to finally get some sort of justice doesn't automatically make them more mature or level-headed, they're still who they were before. Hell, it was refreshing to see such a well-constructed cast like that, even if it didn't reach the heights set by the Persona 4 cast.


I don't know if it's nostalgia acting on me or something, but the characters from Persona 3 were a lot more interesting and complex to me because of the great way the story was presented. Shit dungeon aside, it's still a pretty good game.

The cast in Persona 3 is definitely different. It's been a while since I played it, but the dynamics were really different due to SEES existing since Mitsuru and Akihiko were in their first year of HS. They had more time to settle down and mature, as opposed to Junpei who wanted to be [InsertShonenMangaHeroHere].

I had my own grips with the game, but that's what I remember. I just wish they did a new version with P3P gameplay but FES graphics (or a remake).