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Kotaku: XB1 Slim 2016, More Powerful XB1 Scorpio/VR 2017, iterative boxes from now on

Papacheeks

Junior Member
Jan 30, 2013
5,740
381
545
Watertown, NY
This is the start down the road of games as a service.

Mark my words when Xbox 2 get's leaked or rumors hit on what specs it has and all that jazz. There will be talk of a revamped xbox live subscription or something new all together that will get implemented for all the xbox/PC devices for games as a service.

When that shit get's announced I'm done.
 

justsomeguy

Member
Sep 14, 2013
5,418
0
375
UK
It's everyone ok with this?! This is still a fucking terrible idea imo, especially for devs.
Go look at the NEO threads where plenty of devs said they thought it is a fineidea.
edit1: 'fine' rather than 'great' idea

edit2: a few sources:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1213419
On the NEO rumours:
I will be happy to move forward if this thing is real as I see it as a benefit for me as a dev and a consumer if they do this right. A lot can change for the worse to make this a no-go but right now I'm satisfied and not worried for the extra bit of legwork. Once I get my tools up to snuff I'll be golden.
Personally, I think if iterative consoles means we get to build-up a digital library with our platform holders that will follow us for years & years to come, then i'm all for it.
 

Tunesmith

formerly "chigiri"
Oct 16, 2004
9,638
0
1,420
In 2030 someone will announce a non-iterative console again with a shelf life of 5 years allowing a solid development foundation and will be heralded as an innovative genius.
 

Asd202

Member
Jun 18, 2013
11,412
0
0
32
Poland
Well I don't think it's too surprising. With PC they can get away with not doing heavy optimization due to all the hardware configurations. With this iterative change, Sony and MS will likely be pushing for a fully optimized version for each console. I wouldn't be surprised if the revisions are not used to their full potential.
I expect that for 3rd party games actually. Only first party will use the console to the full potential just like it is now.
 

FunkyDealer

Banned
Mar 9, 2015
4,723
0
0
Hmmm... I'm having mixed feelings about this. Yeah, I'd love a more powerful Xbox and I'm willing to pay a bit more for it. But I don't want fucking two-year cycles.

I hope MS/Sony will clarify how often they plan on putting out new models, but I don't count on it.
 

PdotMichael

Banned
Feb 9, 2011
20,737
0
540
In 2030 someone will announce a non-iterative console again with a shelf life of 5 years allowing a solid development foundation and will be heralded as an innovative genius.
Ford proved that's not what the market wants like 100 years ago.
 

KennyLinder

Member
May 11, 2007
7,885
0
0
NA
Mobile is a pain too, especially Android. And just because you think it's no different to those doesn't mean it won't be a nightmare. I look forward to even more games with unoptimised frame rates.
Android sucks because there are so many versions. iPhone is a better example as its multiple FIXED platforms. Developers will have to have scalable games, where I imagine (if they're smart and sensible) they will build for base, then to extra little bits and pieces for the more powerful version.
 

El_Chino

Member
Jan 22, 2012
8,447
0
580
Hmmm... I'm having mixed feelings about this. Yeah, I'd love a more powerful Xbox and I'm willing to pay a bit more for it. But I don't want fucking two-year cycles.

I hope MS/Sony will clarify how often they plan on putting out new models, but I don't count on it.
Doesn't it say 5 year cycles in the article?
 

Boke1879

Member
Apr 25, 2013
22,005
0
0
Illinois
Go look at the NEO threads where plenty of devs said they thought it is a great idea.
Some devs will dislike it and some will like it. One thing is for sure. They'll all conform and deal with it. EA already said they aren't worried about iterative consoles, and their engines are more than capable of supporting them.
 

SEGAvangelist

Member
May 18, 2007
15,533
63
1,305
This is the start down the road of games as a service.

Mark my words when Xbox 2 get's leaked or rumors hit on what specs it has and all that jazz. There will be talk of a revamped xbox live subscription or something new all together that will get implemented for all the xbox/PC devices for games as a service.

When that shit get's announced I'm done.
Uh. Games as a service has been a thing for a long time. Many of the most popular games are that already.
 

Rellik

Member
Nov 22, 2015
7,598
46
300
All this NEO/Scorpio talk can hold on, not even ready to wrap my head around it lol....I'm more interested in the "XB1 Slim" or whatever it is.

Been waiting for that to jump in seeing what's coming down the pipe this year on the One...super excited, esp. with the rumored 2 TB hard drive and *hopeful* internal power supply.
If they're reducing the size, no way they make the power supply internal. Especially after everything they went through with the RRoD.

It would be nice, though.
 

Clear

Deer/Dur
Feb 2, 2009
10,914
5,076
1,245
Iterative hardware revisions retaining software compatibility is a good thing, but it places a lot of pressure on having a library of exclusive software to draw people into the ecosystem in the first place.

I just don't see MS to be up to maintaining that given their track record over the last few years.

My feeling is that by trying to fight a war on all fronts simultaneously, they are going to end up an also-ran on all of them.
 

Azcyatl

Member
Jan 6, 2016
50
0
0
For what i know of info abou this, the company currently is struggling on how they will tell people about what games will be compatible with which hardware. The "scorpio" model will have 1 or 2 titles exclusive to the more powerful hardware, so the challenge is telling people the clear message of this system is a Xbox One too, but is not the same system as the first model.

Think about it like the mess that Nintendo made in order to differentiate the Wii U from the Wii. And now add the challenge of telling people that they can also have like a "virtual" Xbox One on their PC to play their digital games.

Also the "scorpio" model introduces the free sync technology of AMD, so it will one of the first systems to have an alternative to eliminate the dreaded out of sync problems.
 

martino

Member
Apr 25, 2013
4,558
2,093
640
France
This is the start down the road of games as a service.

Mark my words when Xbox 2 get's leaked or rumors hit on what specs it has and all that jazz. There will be talk of a revamped xbox live subscription or something new all together that will get implemented for all the xbox/PC devices for games as a service.

When that shit get's announced I'm done.
My dream...games as service is end of hardware exclusive and put competition on quality of content ...

Good imo
 

cartographer

Member
Feb 21, 2015
2,821
0
0
Doesn't it say 5 year cycles in the article?
It says not five years.

Sources say that instead of one hardware revision every five years or so, as has been the case with previous console cycles, Microsoft plans to move towards an incremental model, with more frequent hardware releases and games that are both forwards and backwards compatible across both Windows 10 and different Xbox models.
 

Will0827

Member
Apr 7, 2015
159
0
0
So now how long until Sony releases a Playstation OS with a couple of hardware partners and those machines which will essentially be PC's dual boot PSOS and windows and that will be the one machine dream many im sure would like.
 

SneakersSO

Member
Aug 20, 2015
3,165
1
325
Eh.. The Xbox One was The Homer. The Scorpio sounds like a welcome course correction for the Xbox brand.
Wait - the Scorpio is literally an Xbox 1 with a better GPU, according to this article. Heck, the article even mentions it would have the same memory solution the current X1 has (ESRAM). So its not a course-correction, so much as its a homer with a better engine.

The graphical capability of the X1 was not its major market problem.
 

otakukidd

Member
Nov 4, 2013
844
0
0
Do we seriously have to go through this on every single one of these threads. Some people love it and some people hate it. The others are on the fence.
Yep because "Some people love it and some people hate it. The others are on the fence"
 

Omnistalgic

Member
Mar 20, 2012
10,662
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0
Jersey
I think they feel power in the device is a big reason why they lost this generation. When all 3rd party games look better and perform better on PS4.
That's just a slice of the pie though man. Many factors why people are choosing PS4 over X1. And none of these rumors address hardly any of them besides PC running Windows essentially becoming Xbox platforms. Then again it's likely to be tied to Windows store and people on PC like to do their own thing, use steam etc....

Interesting stuff tho, like to see new hardware
 

Rellik

Member
Nov 22, 2015
7,598
46
300
For what i know of info abou this, the company currently is struggling on how they will tell people about what games will be compatible with which hardware. The "scorpio" model will have 1 or 2 titles exclusive to the more powerful hardware, so the challenge is telling people the clear message of this system is a Xbox One too, but is not the same system as the first model.

Think about it like the mess that Nintendo made in order to differentiate the Wii U from the Wii. And now add the challenge of telling people that they can also have like a "virtual" Xbox One on their PC to play their digital games.

Also the "scorpio" model introduces the free sync technology of AMD, so it will one of the first systems to have an alternative to eliminate the dreaded out of sync problems.
If true, the bolded is going to cause trouble amongst the fanbase.
 

Piggus

Member
Mar 12, 2008
11,477
1
0
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www.gtagaming.com
Well it's happening PS4K and Xbox 1.5. If Sony plans to release it this year the new Xbox will be more powerful will be interesting to see though I don't think it will change much as the mindshare is with PS but we will see.
A consol coming out later doesn't guarantee it will be more powerful. The current system's architecture puts them in a more complicated position than Sony.
 

VinFTW

Member
Jul 19, 2014
5,271
2
0
Exactly gaming PC + PS4 is the way forward.
In the future, when you say "gaming PC" it will also mean "Xbox".

Which is really fucking cool. Basically turning Xbox from physical hardware into software, like Steam.

So they pulled a reverse Steam-box.

Kudos, MS. I like dis.
 

Boke1879

Member
Apr 25, 2013
22,005
0
0
Illinois
This is the start down the road of games as a service.

Mark my words when Xbox 2 get's leaked or rumors hit on what specs it has and all that jazz. There will be talk of a revamped xbox live subscription or something new all together that will get implemented for all the xbox/PC devices for games as a service.

When that shit get's announced I'm done.
Games as a service has been a thing for a long ass time now. These iterative consoles are a way to get you into their exosystem. Makes perfect sense from a business standpoint
 

SEGAvangelist

Member
May 18, 2007
15,533
63
1,305
For what i know of info abou this, the company currently is struggling on how they will tell people about what games will be compatible with which hardware. The "scorpio" model will have 1 or 2 titles exclusive to the more powerful hardware, so the challenge is telling people the clear message of this system is a Xbox One too, but is not the same system as the first model.

Think about it like the mess that Nintendo made in order to differentiate the Wii U from the Wii. And now add the challenge of telling people that they can also have like a "virtual" Xbox One on their PC to play their digital games.

Also the "scorpio" model introduces the free sync technology of AMD, so it will one of the first systems to have an alternative to eliminate the dreaded out of sync problems.
This looks like bad info. MS would be stupid to split the market that way, and Free sync is a dumb addition unless major TVs end up supporting it. TV companies still haven't even decided on an HDR standard with HDR 10 and Dolby Vision currently fighting it out.

Wait - the Scorpio is literally an Xbox 1 with a better GPU, according to this article. Heck, the article even mentions it would have the same memory solution the current X1 has (ESRAM). So its not a course-correction, so much as its a homer with a better engine.

The graphical capability of the X1 was not its major market problem.
I don't think they were referencing RAM. More like speeds of the blu-ray drive and HDD I'm guessing.
 

HariKari

Member
Jun 28, 2013
7,298
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0
Games as a service has been a thing for a long ass time now. These iterative consoles are a way to get you into their exosystem. Makes perfect sense from a business standpoint
Yeah, until you're competing with PC directly. Then the money in the hardware becomes more risky. If they go down this road, they'll be banking on locking people in to what their friends have.
 

justsomeguy

Member
Sep 14, 2013
5,418
0
375
UK
For what i know of info abou this, the company currently is struggling on how they will tell people about what games will be compatible with which hardware. The "scorpio" model will have 1 or 2 titles exclusive to the more powerful hardware, so the challenge is telling people the clear message of this system is a Xbox One too, but is not the same system as the first model.

Think about it like the mess that Nintendo made in order to differentiate the Wii U from the Wii. And now add the challenge of telling people that they can also have like a "virtual" Xbox One on their PC to play their digital games.

Also the "scorpio" model introduces the free sync technology of AMD, so it will one of the first systems to have an alternative to eliminate the dreaded out of sync problems.
Interesting if true. Especially a) the freesync, and b) The not everything forward compatible bit
 

Tatsumi Oga

Banned
Jul 17, 2015
4,149
1
0
That new Xbox better be a damn beast then. Do NOT make that mistake again MS.

I do wonder when in 2017 they will announce and release it.
 

Leflus

Member
Jun 4, 2011
3,164
0
0
Wait - the Scorpio is literally an Xbox 1 with a better GPU, according to this article. Heck, the article even mentions it would have the same memory solution the current X1 has (ESRAM). So its not a course-correction, so much as its a homer with a better engine.

The graphical capability of the X1 was not its major market problem.
The Scorpio sounds like a better version of the current Xbox One, yes. ...but not the Xbox One with Kinect, media focus and an always online connection. And sure, the inferior power level added to the weirdness of the initial reveal.
 

Instro

Member
Jan 14, 2009
24,478
1
705
30
California
I expect that for 3rd party games actually. Only first party will use the console to the full potential just like it is now.
Personally I think it's more of 50/50 for 1st party titles. Like I doubt From is going to do much beyond bumping resolution or fps if they were working on a Sony exclusive. Whereas Naughty Dog would probably push bigger on effects.
 

ClearData

Member
Jul 23, 2013
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I won't be able to afford a new Xbox so I'll be playing any relevant offerings on my Windows 10 PC. I think this strategy means that my PC would be functionally the same as having an Xbox games platform device.

I'll keep my current Xbox One for living room gaming and media, which it is already great at.
 

Omnistalgic

Member
Mar 20, 2012
10,662
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0
Jersey
In the future, when you say "gaming PC" it will also mean "Xbox".

Which is really fucking cool. Basically turning Xbox from physical hardware into software, like Steam.

So they pulled a reverse Steam-box.

Kudos, MS. I like dis.
couldnt Sony just make PS compatible with PC though?

I don't think that's how you take down Giants. Companies that do things first build brand awareness and produce loyal customers. Simply because MS is saying every Windows 10 PC that downloads this app is now an Xbox doesn't mean it's going to gain the same traction as something like stream.

It is the only way I'd ever get into MS ecosystem though that's for sure. I'm not going to spend a ton of money on consoles, so I usually just stick with one brand a gen
 

Papacheeks

Junior Member
Jan 30, 2013
5,740
381
545
Watertown, NY
Even Nintendo has done games as a service with Smash, Splatoon and SMM.
How is a retail game with added updates and DLC a games as a service? Games as a service are like Hearthstone, killer instinct, League of legends, heroes of the storm. Games as a service is you paying for the content not the content and the game.

If they EA access is games as a service, because you pay for access to old, new released games and it's yearly or monthly sub fee.
Games now may show signs of continuing content. But that's not a service, your not paying per month or whatever. Even season passes have and end date to when content ends.

If this is to work(which i dont support), game would have to be basically nothing, or 19.99, with you paying a monthly fee or one lump some for the duration of games life which could be forever.
Games as a service is you paying for a service that distributes games to you for a monthly or yearly sub.

Paying 59.99+ dlc+Season pass+amiibo's is extortion not a service.
 

otakukidd

Member
Nov 4, 2013
844
0
0
In the future, when you say "gaming PC" it will also mean "Xbox".

Which is really fucking cool. Basically turning Xbox from physical hardware into software, like Steam.

So they pulled a reverse Steam-box.

Kudos, MS. I like dis.
But people buying pcs to play xbox games instead of xboxs is a lot worse for Microsoft.

Edit:should explain better. They will make a crap load more money off games with Xbox user than a Windows user.
 

HariKari

Member
Jun 28, 2013
7,298
0
0
I don't think that's how you take down Giants. Companies that do things first build brand awareness and produce loyal customers. Simply because MS is saying every Windows 10 PC that downloads this app is now an Xbox doesn't mean it's going to gain the same traction as something like stream.
They'll carve out a niche by offering Xbox exclusive games but pushing beyond that will be hard. Same problem Origin has.
 

Gestault

Member
Oct 18, 2012
14,362
1
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So long as the tools for developing in that family of devices are robust enough to keep developers happy, I don't see too many downsides if the investment/energy makes sense from their end. Alongside attention to PC for first-party output, this'll be interesting to follow.

I'm more or less set with dedicated set-top consoles and a PC, and not a lot in-between, so I probably won't be as active in the mini devices unless they pull off something that feels really "gadgety" in a cool way. It's how I (happily) ended up with a PSP Go.
 

SneakersSO

Member
Aug 20, 2015
3,165
1
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I don't think they were referencing RAM. More like speeds of the blu-ray drive and HDD I'm guessing.
That makes no sense - the current bottleneck that exists, that the article references, is ESRAM & DDR3 integration, not the Blu-Ray drive to HDD read/write speeds.
 

...Scatter...

Banned
Nov 27, 2013
4,105
0
0
Florida, US
I look at iterative console generations as even less of a reason to "build a gaming rig" personally. Especially if it's beefy enough to run Occulus like a champ. Console gamers won't be as far behind the PC curve anymore as iterations will keep up properly. That comes with no driver issues, Xbox live, etc. My current non gaming PC runs Excel and browses the web just fine. Won't need to upgrade that until it dies.
 

bidguy

Banned
Feb 5, 2013
9,400
1
0
lol if anything scorpio is NOT 1.5 like neo .... "new and revamped architecture" points to a bigger upgrade