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La Mulana [WiiWare] NA/EU versions cancelled
- Thread starter VideoMan
- Start date
PixyJunket
Member
Explain.
Nigoro's game has failed to pass certifications several times. How is that the fault of Nicalis?
Most of the games I worked on went through publisher testing as well as internal testing before being passed on to certification. Although that said, it's a bit dependent on what the actual terms of their publishing arrangement are.
PixyJunket
Member
RuneFactoryFanboy
Member
This game was the sole reason I bothered to check the weekly Nintendo download press releases. I've had a Wii Points card sitting in my closet for years now reserved for this game. I've listened to the soundtrack sooooo many times hyping myself up for it. 
The possibility of a PC port doesn't console me much. Sitting at a computer desk to play this doesn't sound like fun and hooking my PC up to my TV would cost more money than I would be willing to spend to experience this game.
What a bummer.
The possibility of a PC port doesn't console me much. Sitting at a computer desk to play this doesn't sound like fun and hooking my PC up to my TV would cost more money than I would be willing to spend to experience this game.
What a bummer.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
There's also River City Ransom 2 in Japan, but I doubt the Miracle Kidz stuff makes it over. We didn't get Super Dodgeball either.
As I mentioned before though, Nintendo has an enormous VC backlog built up at this point (Megaman X2, Twinkle Star Sprites, Lufia, Power Instinct, Metal Slug 3, Double Dragon II, etc, etc). No clue why they're just sitting on those releases.
It's a dick move to announce the cancellation of a long delayed and long awaited release with a vague comment on Twitter, leaving even the developers puzzled at what's going on.
Why would you do that?
Member
That is true, but I would personally not jump to the conclusion so soon that Nicalis hasn't attempted to contact them first through official channels, especially since there seems to be a general aura of miscommunication between the two.
Personally, I can't blame Nicalis right now, unless more information is presented to me that proves their negligence.
At least Nicalis did not announce that they are going to make this announcement, so they are not worse than Siliconera.
I lol'd.
panama chief
Member
damn. i need to play the original.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
In reality this just makes Nicalis look worse. If there's an established language barrier with a business partner, one should be going out of their way to confirm understanding in sensitive matters before making that information public. That Nicalis didn't do this is mindblowingly unproffesional.
Look, I'm not one to hate on Nicalis, I seem to end up defending more often than not, but not with this. This is indefensible from all angles.
I note that testing isn't listed explicitly in the quote.
The point being: You don't submit a game until you're confident it's passed the various certification requirements. You might miss something, of course - happens to everyone. Who determined that the game met the requirements and could be submitted?
Having a second opinion on it helps immensely, too. That's one of the reasons why there's multiple phases of testing.
sixteen-bit
Member
lol, Nicalis is shady as fuck.
Agent Unknown
Member
AND they own Cave Story? Wow, that's horrible to know and the possible implications that come with it, ugh. I hope Pixel at least got a decent deal from that but outright letting them buy his baby is surprising and obviously now seems unwise.
I don't know much about La-Mulana's development thus far, but I can't help but feel there were issues on both ends with communication and progress. Sad situation all around, but it seems like Nigoro is still planning to self-publish on WiiWare in Japan so at least the game will be released on the system (hopefully).
In any case, a WiiWare release at this stage was never going to be a fruitful endeavour, so I very much hope Nigoro can turn it around and get the game on the 3DS eShop, with or without Nicalis. It'd do well there, and most of WiiWare's restrictive quirks will be alleviated.
In any case, a WiiWare release at this stage was never going to be a fruitful endeavour, so I very much hope Nigoro can turn it around and get the game on the 3DS eShop, with or without Nicalis. It'd do well there, and most of WiiWare's restrictive quirks will be alleviated.
Erm. La Mulana came out on WiiWare in Japan about a year ago. There were some bugs and they patched it a month after release, and they released DLC for it as well. That suggests it's not a Nigoro development problem.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Nigoro selfpublished the Japanese WiiWare version almost a year ago. Which makes this worse, the game is already done.
Edit: duckrolled! ;_;
That was my take on it too. The Japanese release makes it very difficult to sympathize with Nicalis on this one.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
It makes it seem like the cancellation is financial more than anything. Though Nicalis isn't really saying that.
Yeah it seems really dodgy.
nincompoop
Banned
Sounds to me like he simply cancelled it because he doesn't think it'll hit the sales threshhold.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-05-01-wiiware-sales-now-almost-non-existent
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-05-01-wiiware-sales-now-almost-non-existent
Criminal Upper
Banned
That's fine. But it seems the developer was never told that.
@PixyJunket
Looking at the blog posts by the actual developer, it seems that it really IS entirely Nicalis' fault here. The US/EU version of the game was completed and delivered by the end of last year, but Nicalis just sat on it. Based on the comments they made today, obviously they sat on it because they didn't feel they could make money from the game on WiiWare and didn't want to release it anymore. It is likely they never submitted the master copy to NoA or NoE in the first place, and they kept the developers in the dark because they didn't want to say "yeah we can't sell WiiWare games anymore, too bad suckers."
Looking at the blog posts by the actual developer, it seems that it really IS entirely Nicalis' fault here. The US/EU version of the game was completed and delivered by the end of last year, but Nicalis just sat on it. Based on the comments they made today, obviously they sat on it because they didn't feel they could make money from the game on WiiWare and didn't want to release it anymore. It is likely they never submitted the master copy to NoA or NoE in the first place, and they kept the developers in the dark because they didn't want to say "yeah we can't sell WiiWare games anymore, too bad suckers."
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Aksys, Xseed or someone should swoop in and make this a $19.99 retail release. Add in all the dlc on disc too.
I can't believe we're somehow getting Xenoblade, Last Story, Pikmin 2, (probably) Pandora's Tower but not this.
I can't believe we're somehow getting Xenoblade, Last Story, Pikmin 2, (probably) Pandora's Tower but not this.
nincompoop
Banned
Aksys, Xseed or someone should swoop in and make this a $19.99 retail release. Add in all the dlc on disc too.
I can't believe we're somehow getting Xenoblade, Last Story, Pikmin 2, (probably) Pandora's Tower but not this.
Err, somehow I think releasing this at retail would be even less likely to make money than releasing it for Wiiware.
yikes, I really hope that's not true. if that allegation ever gets substantiated, I'm not sure I'd be willing to buy Cave Story+ on the eShop. Was looking forward to it too.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Not if we're looking at 4 figure sales. Though I tend to think that there's enough interest in the game that it'd make a return on WiiWare anyway, even now. Wii U could even help drive sales later this year if DSiWare on 3DS is any indication.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Yeah I think you're being crazy here.
Agent Unknown
Member
Trademark is not copyright.
Nigoro's tweet nudged the truth a little closer, but still, you should've just read this: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=37447401&postcount=69
I'll agree that Nicalis (Tyrone) using Twitter as a mini press release wire wasn't smart. But in the end...
PixyJunket
Member
You seem to be making a lot of presumptuous character accusations and definitive statements based on very little information, all of which appears to be coming from awkwardly worded comments from a Japanese developer's Twitter and blog where they have continually noted through both channels that they struggle with reading and writing in English. I think it would be wise to allow more information to come out before pointing any fingers beyond what we've actually been told, which is that NIGORO failed certification on multiple occasions. And that fact is coming form both Nicalis and from the NIGORO blog post you quoted.
The fact that the game is released in Japan is mostly irrelevant. Nintendo has different (and I believe stricter) certification processes for North American and European regions. For all we know, dealing with at least three different certification process could be what NIGORO was hinting at being frustrating to deal with in their blog post. In fact, that makes a little more sense to me than whatever their dealings with Nicals were, who probably just wanted to release the game.
Of course, this is just another chance for me to yell at Nintendo (and at Sony) to copy what Microsoft has been doing with XBLA. Mandatory demos on release date. Same date Worldwide release dates (unless licenses prevent this, ala Tetris). Those are two of the most subtle reasons XBLA has been as successful as it is. At least, I think, heh.
How does same date worldwide release date help the La Mulana situation at all? It'd have resulted in holding back the Japanese version until the others were completed, meaning *no* version would have been released.
The certification process isn't just about bug-squashing--Nintendo has very specific and occasionally bewildering protocols in terms of the way manuals should be worded, the nomenclature related to control explanations, even stuff like scrolling text. It's equally plausible that the international versions failed lotcheck due to errors/gaffes caused during localisation, ie issues caused/unchecked by Nicalis themselves.
Is there any proof either way? No, and we'll probably never get any, but the fact that Nicalis struggles to even get its own games through lotcheck--games that it has full control over, and can modify at its own leisure on its own timetable--suggests that they didn't handle La-Mulana any better. It's the publisher's responsibility to deal with these issues, and the publisher failed.
Is there any proof either way? No, and we'll probably never get any, but the fact that Nicalis struggles to even get its own games through lotcheck--games that it has full control over, and can modify at its own leisure on its own timetable--suggests that they didn't handle La-Mulana any better. It's the publisher's responsibility to deal with these issues, and the publisher failed.
PixyJunket
Member
Because there would be ONE certifications process to pass, not three.
You're really coming off as desperate trying to find or flat out make up fault with Nicalis in this. The game NIGORO actually got released past the certification in Japan still had bugs which needed addressed in a patch. On NIGORO's blog they've stated they submitted the international version of the game for certification at least three times. Nicalis stated on this cancellation that the issues are with NIGORO and not in their responsibilities as publisher. Here it is again, since it seems to be continually ignored.
It's certainly possible that Tyrone is full of crap. If he is, it will likely come out through NIGORO's blog and I'll be happy to direct a lot of rage towards him and Nicals for whatever they did. But until that actually happens, anybody throwing stones is doing so on complete fabrication and assumption.
When they say they submitted the game for international certification they're talking about sending the master to Nicalis. They're not actually handling any of that stuff directly when it comes to the international versions--that's one of the services expected from a publisher, and one of the primary reasons you'd even bother with one. They'd work with Nicalis when it came to fixing issues or implementing changes, yes, but it's up to Nicalis to identify what needs to change and to make sure everything is to protocol before they submit, something they are utterly hopeless at doing even with their own products. If Nicalis asserts that it wasn't their responsibility to facilitate that stuff then I assert that they're full of crap.
Now, were there issues in communicating precisely what changes needed to be made to NIGORO? Were there differences in opinion RE: how to handle the DLC, as implied by Nicalis' statement? It's plausible--probable, even--that both of these things were occurring. However, lets assume that NIGORO squashed every bug and made every exact change requested of them by Nicalis--do you think that would have guaranteed the game would pass certification? Do you trust Nicalis to even be capable of pinpointing why the game was failing lotcheck in the first place, given their track record? I absolutely don't.
I'm sorry if I come off as being crazy or whatever, but Nicalis seems to take a long time with anything they release, regardless of the developer behind it, and the last interview thread we had made the Nicalis guy come off as a real jerk. So pardon me if I'm not being particular kind to them for the way they handled this.
iamaustrian
Member
they should release a 3DS version then. It should sell fine.
but it's Nicalis so euros will never get to play it anyway
but it's Nicalis so euros will never get to play it anyway
GrotesqueBeauty
Banned
Well, whatever happened this is some bullshit. I was really looking forward to playing this. Not to go into the whole comfy couch thing, but my computer isn't really set up in a way that's conducive to long play sessions, besides which a classic controller is a better option than anything pad I can use with my computer. And something about playing this one on my CRT just seemed appropriate. Bummer.
Didn't see this posted here yet... NIGORO's response to the situation:
http://indiegames.com/2012/05/nigoro_interview.htmlWas there an agreement to publish in NOA and NOE by a certain deadline?
I think the deadline was not fixed in particular. We have an agreement that we submit the game when it is finished. I say later, LA-MULANA had lot checks with Nintendo several times. When the problems are pointed out, we passed to Nicalis the fixed master data by about few weeks each time.
So, fixing the game for distribution in US and EU markets was your responsibility?
Fixing the game was in our charge, and we have left Nicalis to submit the game to NOA and NOE. We have a contract with Nintendo Japan, and Nicalis have contracts with NOA and NOE. Therefore, we have no way to check the progress of LA-MULANA English version for WiiWare directly.
Did anyone neglect their duties as developer or publisher?
We have responded quickly and in good faith, while we are puzzled that the matters pointed out received through the lot check of NOA / NOE is different from Nintendo Japan. I believe Nicalis had a sense of responsibility as a publisher in good faith, too.
Unfortunately we wanted to release DLC, but we were supposed to cancel the DLC because of a number of factors and Nicalis's request. If there is a person who has neglected their duties, it would be us. We are sorry that we could not publish any information for several months because of the contract and circumstances with Nicalis.
It has happened like this, and we should have talked to fans about it all sooner. In this regard we want to apologize obediently. We must keep an NDA (non-disclosure agreement) with Nintendo and Nicalis, naturally, so we could not speak details even if you wanted to talk about it.
Fans seem really excited about PC release, though.
In order for us to succeed as an indie game developer in the future, overseas sales are essential. In recent years downloadable content and indie games have begun to attract attention in Japan, the population of Japan is much less than in North America firstly. Also it sold a indie game in Japan, to acquire the sales equivalent to the development fund is very hard.
Indie game developers continue to work in Japan without also considering overseas sales is difficult. In order for us to distribute the games to gamers overseas from now on, we want gamer overseas to know details of indie game scene in Japan. We must open up the export market so Japanese indie games will be accepted.
The digital distribution only game is never "sold out" because it is a different from a physical package. Therefore, it can be expected to sell for a long period of time. So, we thought LA-MULANA must be exciting and perfect. We were encouraging the production without considering our profit...
I think that to get enough sales to fund our next games, sales in Japan only are not enough. We did our best in a situation where we didn't get income.
Unfortunately, the incident had happened like this, we hope you judge by whether LA-MULANA is exciting or not rather than to judge Wii or Nicalis and NIGORO. So, we have been developing the final part of the PC version with all our might, with nothing stop us anymore.
In conclusion, let me add a few words. If there was no offer from Nicalis, we would not have remade LA-MULANA. We are grateful to Nicalis even now. Before an offer from Nicalis came, we did not even know how to enter the consumer world. Because we have spent a lot of time in the making of the original LA-MULANA, we did not intend to remake it as our first consumer game.
Who will do the translation or localization of the PC version, and what languages and countries will La-Mulana (PC) be available in?
We are currently looking for cooperators or companies that can do translations in Japan. Anyway, we were only prepared for Japanese and English versions. The original LA-MULANA was made only in Japanese. Because volunteers translated it into English, LA-MULANA has spread throughout the world. Because we've come back to PC games, we will cooperate actively if there are volunteers who want to translate into another language as in the past.
We have already asked cooperators to translate the Japanese text into English for the new PC version.
Will La-Mulana sell on Steam or another distributor?
It is not decided yet. Of course, we want to sell on Steam. I hope we get a good offer from Steam... I have trouble in the situation that we can not manage the release date, although we want to released it abroad anyway.
We are looking for a reliable company that can solve the problem. For the WiiWare version, we had a hard time in collaborating overseas. We have contacted a company that can communicate quickly, can have a meeting if we need, and have good cooperation from overseas. I think that I can share this as soon as it's determined.
Will the PC version include the DLC (地獄
Because of WiiWare's size restriction, DLC is the only way we can release the Hell Temple. However we can use limitless bytes on PC, if we want. Although we can not say yet about details, we will publish the information at the official site in the near future. Please wait and see.
Do you want to publish future games with Nicalis?
I think it is difficult to be active in the consumer market for indie game makers, such as our small company. Since Nicalis has been also active in the consumer market, I think they will become one of the candidates as publisher if we make new consumer games in the future. However, I think we are the awkward developer for the publishers since we have a policy to make the game we want.
Speaing of small, what size is Nigoro now?
NIGORO as a game development team is composed of three people.
How many people work at the parent company, Asterizm?
Asterizm is composed of five people, including us. In addition to us, we have asked the people playing our game to debug. And we are familiar with Mr. Amaya, who developed Cave Story. We want to be friends with more Japanese indie game developers.
Is there a chance La-Mulana will come to Mac, iPhone, or Android?
Personally, I'm an old Macintosh user... but it would be more realistic to ask someone who is familiar with Macs to port the same product over time. About iPhone and Android, I think the game was made based on the assumption that porting gamepad controls to the touch device is not easy.
Are you developing or considering a game for 3DS/eShop or Vita/PSN?
I want to do so, if possible. It is very difficult for a game development team of three people to make consumer games. I should be very grateful if there is a publisher who says, "We want to port NIGORO's games to the consumers and publish them!"
What other things are you working on?
Since we had intended to devote sales of La-Mulana English version for Wii to developing the next game, we are currently not developing anything. However, we have continued to prepare for when the time comes.
On a lighter note, what fun Japanese indie games have you played recently?
I played Maou Monogatari Monogatari and Meikyuujou Hydra (Hydra Castle Labyrinth). And I played "Cave Story" thoroughly for a fan event named Doukutsu monogatari no Uragawa (it means "The inside of Cave Story") that I participated in. There are also other interesting indie games in Japan; I'm sorry I don't have the time I play them. These unnoticed masterpieces need to be introduced overseas so that the Japanese Indie game scene can flourish more.
*IndieGames spoke with Nicalis' Tyrone Rodriguez for additional comment. He didn't dispute any of the responses Nigoro provided here. When asked if both sides knew about the cancellation ahead of time, Rodriguez stated he couldn't reveal those details because of the NDA. However, he said that almost every week for the last few years they've kept in communication.
Hours Left
Member
I'm happy to see they are still open to other publishers helping them get the game on other platforms.
I PSN/eShop release would be amazing.
I PSN/eShop release would be amazing.
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