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LA Times: 'Many researchers taking a different view of pedophilia'

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P

Protein

Banned
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-pedophiles-20130115,0,197689.story


As a young boy, Paul Christiano loved the world of girls — the way they danced, how their spindly bodies tumbled in gymnastics.

In adolescence, as other boys ogled classmates, he was troubled to find himself fantasizing about 7- to 11-year-olds.

His desires remained stuck in time as he neared adulthood. Despite a stable home life in suburban Chicago, he was tortured by urges he knew could land him in prison.

"For having these feelings, I was destined to become a monster," he said. "I was terrified."

In 1999, Christiano was caught buying child pornography. Now 36, he said he has never molested a child, but after five years of state-ordered therapy, the attraction remains.

"These people felt they could snuff out the desire, or shame me into denying it existed," he said. "But it's as intrinsic as the next person's heterosexuality."

In the laboratory, researchers are coming to the same conclusion.

Like many forms of sexual deviance, pedophilia once was thought to stem from psychological influences early in life. Now, many experts view it as a sexual orientation as immutable as heterosexuality or homosexuality. It is a deep-rooted predisposition — limited almost entirely to men — that becomes clear during puberty and does not change.

The best estimates are that between 1% and 5% of men are pedophiles, meaning that they have a dominant attraction to prepubescent children.

Not all pedophiles molest children. Nor are all child molesters pedophiles. Studies show that about half of all molesters are not sexually attracted to their victims. They often have personality disorders or violent streaks, and their victims are typically family members.

By contrast, pedophiles tend to think of children as romantic partners and look beyond immediate relatives. They include chronic abusers familiar from the headlines — Catholic priests, coaches and generations of Boy Scout leaders.

Other pedophiles are "good people who are struggling," said Dr. Fred Berlin, a psychiatrist who heads the Johns Hopkins Sexual Behaviors Consultation Unit. "They're tortured souls fighting like heck not to do this. We do virtually nothing in terms of reaching out to these folks. We drive it underground."

Studying criminals

Some of the new understanding of pedophilia comes from studies done on convicted sex criminals at the Center for Mental Health and Addiction in Toronto, where researchers use a procedure known as phallometry to identify men whose peak attraction is to children.

A man sits alone in a room viewing a series of images and listening to descriptions of various sexual acts with adults and children, male and female, while wearing a device that monitors blood flow to his penis.

Like men attracted to adults, nearly all pedophiles respond most strongly to one gender or the other — females far more often than males.

In searching for causes of pedophilia, researchers have largely dismissed the popular belief that abuse in childhood plays an important role. Studies show that few victims grow up to be abusers, and only about a third of offenders say they were molested.

Scientists at the Toronto center have uncovered a series of associations that suggest pedophilia has biological roots.

Among the most compelling findings is that 30% of pedophiles are left-handed or ambidextrous, triple the general rate. Because hand dominance is established through some combination of genetics and the environment of the womb, scientists see that association as a powerful indicator that something is different about pedophiles at birth.


"The only explanation is a physiological one," said James Cantor, a leader of the research.

Researchers have also determined that pedophiles are nearly an inch shorter on average than non-pedophiles and lag behind the average IQ by 10 points — discoveries that are consistent with developmental problems, whether before birth or in childhood.




In a 2008 study, Cantor's team conducted MRI brain scans on 65 pedophiles. Compared with men with criminal histories but no sex offenses, they had less white matter, the connective circuitry of the brain.

The evidence also points to what Cantor explained as "cross wiring": Seeing a child sets off the same neural response that men typically experience around an attractive woman.

More evidence of brain involvement comes from scattered examples of men with brain tumors or neurological diseases affecting inhibition.

In one case, a 40-year-old teacher in Virginia with no history of sexual deviance suddenly became interested in child pornography and was arrested for molesting his prepubescent stepdaughter.

The night before his sentencing, he showed up at an emergency room with a bad headache. An MRI revealed a tumor compressing his brain's right frontal lobe.

When the tumor was removed, his obsession faded, according to Dr. Russell Swerdlow, a neurologist on the case. A year later he again became sexually fixated on children. The tumor was growing back.

Swerdlow and others said the case suggests that the man's attraction to children may have always been present — the tumor simply took away the man's ability to control it.

Strong impulse control may help explain why some pedophiles never break the law.
Click to expand...



Rest of the article in the link.
 
T

Tideas

Banned
if it becomes medical, are we going to see society start to accept it in the future like they're accepting of homosexuality now?
 
G

God...frey Jones

Banned
I would believe it. I believe they are hard-wired at birth.

I at times have thought I have ephebophillic tendencies, but I've come to learn that isn't so unusual.

EDIT: I have never had trouble controlling it though.
 
P

Pai Pai Master

Banned
Tideas said:
if it becomes medical, are we going to see society start to accept it in the future like they're accepting of homosexuality now?
Click to expand...

I think it's pretty different. Sex and marriage between two homosexual adults is a ways off from an adult engaging in the same with a minor.

It should not be allowed, however we should definitely stop demonizing every single person to ever find themselves attracted to a child. Having a thought isn't a crime. They can be helped to understand and control their desires and society would be better as a whole.
 
T

ThoseDeafMutes

Member
Tideas said:
if it becomes medical, are we going to see society start to accept it in the future like they're accepting of homosexuality now?
Click to expand...

No, because prepubescents engaging in sexual activities is not equivalent to homosexuality. The reason pedophilia is illegal isn't because 'ew gross', it's because minors are incapable of giving consent, doubly so for those before puberty. There is also an added power dynamic going on, with the child being in a vastly less powerful position, and adults being authority figures by default. What might happen, though, is that people become sympathetic towards those who do experience strong attractions to children, rather than simple hate. Which seems much healthier to me. Pedophilia being a "medical thing" that is acceptable to have as long as you are trying to resolve it, and wouldn't bring society's wrath and disgust down upon you means that it will be identified more often, because they won't feel as much of a need to hide it and let it fester under the surface.
 
G

glaurung

Member
Another nail in the coffin of the modern society.

Yeah, let's legalize pedophilia. Soon zoophilia and then necrophilia. I mean, we all have these urges, right? RIGHT?

Fucking disgusting.
 
S

Sickboy007

Member
Valnen said:
It's sadly already legal with parental consent as far as I know. If anything even that should be banned.
Click to expand...

In most of the civilized world the lowest you can go with parental consent (and court permission in many jurisdictions) is 16. Hardly pedophiliac.
 
P

Pai Pai Master

Banned
glaurung said:
Another nail in the coffin of the modern society.

Yeah, let's legalize pedophilia. Soon zoophilia and then necrophilia. I mean, we all have these urges, right? RIGHT?

Fucking disgusting.
Click to expand...

Absolutely not what the article is advocating. You're completely missing the point.
 
T

Tideas

Banned
ThoseDeafMutes said:
No, because prepubescents engaging in sexual activities is not equivalent to homosexuality. The reason pedophilia is illegal isn't because 'ew gross', it's because minors are incapable of giving consent, doubly so for those before puberty. There is also an added power dynamic going on, with the child being in a vastly less powerful position, and adults being authority figures by default. What might happen, though, is that people become sympathetic towards those who do experience strong attractions to children, rather than simple hate. Which seems much healthier to me. Pedophilia being a "medical thing" that is acceptable to have as long as you are trying to resolve it, and wouldn't bring society's wrath and disgust down upon you means that it will be identified more often, because they won't feel as much of a need to hide it and let it fester under the surface.
Click to expand...

same issue here with gay marriage though. We argue "minor" can't give consent. But who are we to determine the mental state of such "minors".

If minors continue to grow up faster emotionally and mentally, can we not argue that minors are no longer minors after a certain age?

Society boundary are changing all the time.

We consider an 18 year old to be an adult, and a 17 year old to be a minor. Is the difference between the two that large?
 
T

Tideas

Banned
Antiwhippy said:
Are you implying that homosexuality is a medical condition?
Click to expand...

i'm implying that pretty soon we can have the medical field tell us that pedophilia is just something that someone's born with, and that they can't control it.

How they feel towards children is the same genetic factor that drives a man to feel the same for another man.
 
P

Pai Pai Master

Banned
Tideas said:
same issue here with gay marriage though. We argue "minor" can't give consent. But who are we to determine the mental state of such "minors".

If minors continue to grow up faster emotionally and mentally, can we not argue that minors are no longer minors after a certain age?

Society boundary are changing all the time.

We consider an 18 year old to be an adult, and a 17 year old to be a minor. Is the difference between the two that large?
Click to expand...

But you're talking about the differences between a 17 and 18 year old. Yes, there is not going to be a big difference. Society and the law needs to put an age down on paper though and the results may vary on a case-by-case basis.

But this is children we're talking about. The targets of pedophile sex offenders, and the object of attraction for those with pedophilic tendencies. Certainly not capable of consenting to a relationship with an adult, legal or not.

It's not the same issue because anyone deciding to engage in a normal adult homosexual relationship is certainly capable of making that decision for themself. Society needs to look out for those incapable of doing so, so of course we are not going to legalize child marriages and sex with minors.
 
G

glaurung

Member
Pai Pai Master said:
Absolutely not what the article is advocating. You're completely missing the point.
Click to expand...
Random justification for an inexcusable action is irrelevant.

Take a look at the pedophilia scandal bubbling around Saville and his cronies in the elitist mob. The media is already looking for justifications to say that pedophilia is normal and should be permitted. Fuck that, pedophilia should never be permitted. The fact that the elite now feel the pinch and are looking for an easy way out is the only reason these "studies" see the light of day.

I am sorry, this irritates me to no end. I will avoid this thread in the future.
 
A

abusori

Member
Tideas said:
same issue here with gay marriage though. We argue "minor" can't give consent. But who are we to determine the mental state of such "minors".

If minors continue to grow up faster emotionally and mentally, can we not argue that minors are no longer minors after a certain age?

Society boundary are changing all the time.

We consider an 18 year old to be an adult, and a 17 year old to be a minor. Is the difference between the two that large?
Click to expand...

Pedophiles aren't attracted to a 17 year old.
 
G

GregLombardi

Member
Very very interesting. Especially the tumor guy.

I'm glad society is trying to understand these things rather than trying to run away from them now.
 
S

SolKane

Member
Antiwhippy said:
Are you implying that homosexuality is a medical condition?
Click to expand...

His point was that orthodox psychology used to classify it as such (a mental disorder), but as more evidence has pointed to environmental and genetic factors, the scientific consensus and broader social understanding have changed to reflect a new understanding of homosexuality.
 
G

God...frey Jones

Banned
glaurung said:
Random justification for an inexcusable action is irrelevant.

Take a look at the pedophilia scandal bubbling around Saville and his cronies in the elitist mob. The media is already looking for justifications to say that pedophilia is normal and should be permitted. Fuck that, pedophilia should never be permitted. The fact that the elite now feel the pinch and are looking for an easy way out is the only reason these "studies" see the light of day.

I am sorry, this irritates me to no end. I will avoid this thread in the future.
Click to expand...

That this is a media conspiracy is a massive leap of logic.
 
A

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
Tideas said:
i'm implying that pretty soon we can have the medical field tell us that pedophilia is just something that someone's born with, and that they can't control it.

How they feel towards children is the same genetic factor that drives a man to feel the same for another man.
Click to expand...

Alright, I think I understand.

Thing is, it's not going to be accepted simply because it's still with minors. With homosexuality it's with two consenting legal adults.

Also when people are talking about minors in the pedophilia sense it's usually 6-12 year olds.
 
S

Suairyu

Banned
glaurung said:
Random justification for an inexcusable action is irrelevant.

Take a look at the pedophilia scandal bubbling around Saville and his cronies in the elitist mob. The media is already looking for justifications to say that pedophilia is normal and should be permitted. Fuck that, pedophilia should never be permitted. The fact that the elite now feel the pinch and are looking for an easy way out is the only reason these "studies" see the light of day.

I am sorry, this irritates me to no end. I will avoid this thread in the future.
Click to expand...
There wasn't any justification for any action in the article.

But don't sweat it. It'd irritate me to no end too if I couldn't read.
 
T

Tideas

Banned
abusori said:
Pedophiles aren't attracted to a 17 year old.
Click to expand...

again, if the proof comes out that it is genetics, how is society supposed to react then in a fair and civilized way?

Can we punish someone for something that they're born with and have no way to control?

I agree, they could be attracted to a 4 year old, or a 13 year old.

But it goes back to society definition of minors. a 13 year old can have a maturity sometimes greater than that of their 23 year old counterpart. when do we determine a person is able to give "consent"?
 
G

GregLombardi

Member
Tideas said:
again, if the proof comes out that it is genetics, how is society supposed to react then in a fair and civilized way?

Can we punish someone for something that they're born with and have no way to control?

I agree, they could be attracted to a 4 year old, or a 13 year old.

But it goes back to society definition of minors. a 13 year old can have a maturity sometimes greater than that of their 23 year old counterpart. when do we determine a person is able to give "consent"?
Click to expand...
Yes because everyone has the ability to control themselves. Society doesn't allow people to act on things they want to do because that is what is best for society as a whole.

Just because I want to have sex with women or with men, doesn't mean I run up to everyone I see and start having sex with them.

Granted, people who can't control these urges will never, by society's standards, be able to have sex in a condoned manner, and I feel bad for them. But I still think it is the right decision for the kids.
 
H

Horseticuffs

Full werewolf off the buckle
glaurung said:
Another nail in the coffin of the modern society.

Yeah, let's legalize pedophilia. Soon zoophilia and then necrophilia. I mean, we all have these urges, right? RIGHT?

Fucking disgusting.
Click to expand...
Hey now, lots of states JUST got around to making necrophilia illegal, and now you want them to go through all the trouble to legalize it again?

On this subject I'm not surprised. Certainly, once we acknowledge that it's definitely medical and that they can't help themselves we must do what we can to remove the stigma so that they can get the help and support they need to control themselves, much like an addict.

I, sadly, have a hard time believing society can be that rational. Nobody benefits if these people are made pariahs and pushed out onto the perimeter where they are unable to make healthy connections with society and slip through the cracks.
 
T

ThoseDeafMutes

Member
Tideas said:
same issue here with gay marriage though. We argue "minor" can't give consent. But who are we to determine the mental state of such "minors".
Click to expand...

That is not the same issue as with gay marriage. Gay marriage is about whether homosexuals deserve the same legal rights as heterosexuals, all parties are already unambiguously capable of giving consent, and are not mentally harmed by it. Opposition to it is based around complete idiocy (it will destroy marriage) or religious arguments.

The 18 line is an arbitrary barrier chosen to be conservative. Not every country has it at 18. Some 17, some 16. Some countries don't even have one, although they usually aren't the most enlightened nations. Do you agree with baby fucking? If not, why not? Where exactly the line exists can be argued, but the range it can be argued to within is about 15-17, and pedophiles are attracted to people who have not sexually matured (usually much younger than this age).
 
P

Pai Pai Master

Banned
glaurung said:
Random justification for an inexcusable action is irrelevant.

Take a look at the pedophilia scandal bubbling around Saville and his cronies in the elitist mob. The media is already looking for justifications to say that pedophilia is normal and should be permitted. Fuck that, pedophilia should never be permitted. The fact that the elite now feel the pinch and are looking for an easy way out is the only reason these "studies" see the light of day.

I am sorry, this irritates me to no end. I will avoid this thread in the future.
Click to expand...

We're not saying that pedophilia should be permitted. But what do you consider pedophilia? Abusing a child or just having a thought in your head? Is it illegal to think something?

What the article is saying is that there are researchers who believe that some people with pedohilic tendencies, who may not necessarily be a danger to children in society, could be helped if they could understand why they have those tendencies, and that we shouldn't immediately label them as criminal sex offenders if they've ever thought about or fantasized about sex with a child. They haven't committed a crime just by thinking something, so we should be more interested in understanding and helping them before their status in society pushes them to do something they may not want to do.

If you're going to immediately label someone as a child rapist just because they thought a thought, then that puts far more attention on what that person could potentially do, instead of what they actually want to do.
 
M

Milchjon

Member
glaurung said:
Another nail in the coffin of the modern society.

Yeah, let's legalize pedophilia. Soon zoophilia and then necrophilia. I mean, we all have these urges, right? RIGHT?

Fucking disgusting.
Click to expand...

That's... not the implication...

No one wants to "legalize pedophilia", for reasons that ThoseDeafMutes laid out.

The research only leads to a more differentiated picture of pedophilia. The fact that it seems to be physiological might lead to less of a stigma (note: I'm not talking about sex with children, but the attraction itself), and therefore a greater possibility of pedophiles consulting experts.

The main implication of the research IMO is that you should feel bad for (non-child-fucking) pedophiles.
 
2

2San

Member
Really don't find this surprising and always assumed as much. I am surprised that researcher just now turning around.

One thing I never understood though. As a straight male. I also have long dry spells at times, but I never molest/rape anyone. Is there an explanation for the lack of self control?

edit: On the flip side there are a lot of rapist/molesters I guess. >_<
 
C

Carcetti

Member
glaurung said:
Another nail in the coffin of the modern society.

Yeah, let's legalize pedophilia. Soon zoophilia and then necrophilia. I mean, we all have these urges, right? RIGHT?

Fucking disgusting.
Click to expand...

More like decline in reading comprehension is the bane of modern society.
 
E

Emitan

Member
I've always felt sympathetic to pedophiles who don't act on their feelings. It must be awful to attracted to people and knowing it's a horrible thing.
 
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