Mammoth Jones
Member
Mostly rape and sexual assault with a minor. And they're mostly older.
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Let's talk about how to actually combat pedophilia
- Thread starter Emperor_Uriel
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Mostly rape and sexual assault with a minor. And they're mostly older.
Pretty certain this isn't an accurate statement.
Closet pedos who don't actively molest children are probably the freaks that just download child pornography onto their computer and further feed into the potential sex trafficking that is going on with children and minors.
They're all bad. Lock them up, shove them on the sex offenders list, end of story. Also, I concur with banning anime. It only makes more pedos.
They're all bad. Lock them up, shove them on the sex offenders list, end of story. Also, I concur with banning anime. It only makes more pedos.
Herr Schwarz
Banned
Yeah but this idea of conversion therapy is as ridiculous towards pedophiles as the idea it's a good one for gay people. (Re: Mike Pence).
There's no way we have the Science in place to create complete brainwashing and complete personality restructuring to that kind of level.
It'd just be torture chambers. It's a tricky problem in which you have to weigh in human rights considerations.
As someone who had been stalked and targetted/lured by a pedophile as a kid myself, they are the scum of humanity when they begin to target kids.
But for people that are pedophiles, realise its fucked up and are having to fight everyday in isolation to combat this affliction in their own private hell for the rest of their lives in must be a pretty hopeless existence and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
Mammoth Jones
Member
When there's actual evidence someone has molested a child they should be removed from society for the rest of their lives. I'm never going to budge on that position. Not an inch.
As for before that sure, try new shit. But once that line is crossed? Nope.
Sorry. I will never be impartial about this subject. Ever.
HazySaiyan
Banned
It may be different by country, I don't know, but at the very least there's very little funding and resources for people seeking help and the social stigma is so great that it's understandable why someone might not want to come forward. That in my opinion needs to change.
Nobody's advocating ignoring child abuse, it's about finding solutions to prevent it from happening? What's wrong with that? If you're going to put your feelings before actual solutions then you're doing nothing to actually help the situation. Victims need support, of course they do, but let's also work in making sure there's fewer victims in the first place, eh?
Don't you think it's inhumane to lock someone up in prison for life due to an urge they can't control? Wouldn't it be better to try and treat them if possible so that they no longer have that urge?
You keep repeating this. We get it. It also doesn't really deal with the problem as I said. It just deals with the aftermath. No one is doubting your disgust and hatred of child molesters and no on is saying you should feel otherwise but you don't even seem to think past,"Fuck em all" which does no one any good.
Aizo
Banned
Okay, hold up. This is incredibly stupid, even as a joke. I criticized anime on the previous page, but let's not pretend watching something turns people into pedophiles. There is no substantiated evidence that supports this theory.
An urge is not an excuse to commit a crime keep their fucking dick in their pants? There is no necessity to have sexual relations with minors, if they cant control the "urge" they have even more problems than just pedophilia, theyre also rapists.
There are no effective treatments :/
TheUzukiLives
Banned
I'm not saying all of them are innocent, just pointing out how dumb the law and categorizing can be when it comes to this stuff. It's easy to say "Lock them in a dank cell and melt the key!", but this is a complex topic that isn't exactly black and white.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
and some people have an uncontrollable urge to slit throats not really the greatest argument.
He said gives them chemical castration. A pedophile should take that.
Honestly, I don't think there will be a treatment to pedophilia, cause it's a sexual orientation.
And about urges... urges are controllable, always. If you don't, then you're fucked and deserve jail time. A big one.
But that not fixing the problem at all, like sex offender have low recidivism rates when compared to other crimes.
Aizo
Banned
They were talking about pedophiles who do not act on their urges.
At least I think they are. Urges must be controlled. Absolutely horrific and abhorrent to act on a sexual urge with a child. That sort of person should never have the opportunity to be anywhere near a child.
How would they be locked away for thoughts in their head?
It helps to read and comprehend a post before responding lol. He never said and he isn't talking about those act on the urges.
This is why this topic can't be discussed, too many people are emotional about it. Got one guy in this thread saying we shouldn't be talking about the urge factor and the pedophiles who don't commit a crime at all and focus on the ones that do.
Guess what, bud, if you don't focus on prevention, you are going to end up with more child rape/molestation and hurt children.
Maybe not now, but in the future there might be.
I know they're rapists. I'm not arguing they don't deserve to be punished.
I'm saying that locking them up in prison forever won't stop them from having those urges. Trying to treat them to the best of our ability might be able to allow them to be healthy and productive people.
HazySaiyan
Banned
Or you know, you could also help people with violent urges like that as well? That's not the greatest argument either
OP is all seen as far too easy. Especially getting young children to report to adults about what is going on. It is far harder then you think to do anything in the OP. It has to fall on adults to try and stop the abuse.
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Paedophiles that act on their urges and molesters should get far harder prison time then they do. They ruin lives, so fuck them.
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Paedophiles that act on their urges and molesters should get far harder prison time then they do. They ruin lives, so fuck them.
Why would this be a meaningful distinction in combatting pedophilia? Inappropriate touching would be combatted the same way in either case.
Aizo
Banned
I do believe that's the point. One user was saying they should be locked up despite not even planning to commit the crime.
You can say that about any crime, most much more forgiveable than pedophilia.
If a pedophile cant control themselves they should suffer the same fate as every other criminal who couldnt control themselves.
Then why even put in your 2 cents? This thread is about combating it, your way of handling it would keep it the way it is now.
Sunster
Member
what angers me most is that it is the victims who are acting to defend themselves and not the Japanese government. Looking into it people there basically say Japan is not really interested in dealing with it beyond giving girls a separate train car. which of course does very little considering how many people take the train there.
No its pretty black and white. Don't touch kids.
If they haven't acted on the urges, therapy and if they want chemical castration. If they have, then lock them up for life. Once you've harmed a child there's no going back and no rehabilitation and society should rightly shun you forever.
Rapists and other forms of sex offenses may have low recidivism, but convicted child molesters have pretty high rates from what I've read.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/pessimism-about-pedophilia
"One review found recidivism rates of 10% to 50% among pedophiles previously convicted of sexual abuse.."
It's not about empathy for pedophiles, it's about creating an environment where more pedophiles choose to seek help rather than constantly fight their urges alone.
Now I don't know how effectively this can be treated, but I'm going to assume that anything has a better success rate than just going it alone.
If you're only interested in locking them up after the fact then you're treating the symptoms rather than the cause, and children will continue to suffer.
"Lock them up" is the easy answer. It lets you sit up on your moral high horse and yell "pedos are bad" (no shit Sherlock) without doing anything to change the situation.
Obviously offenders should be locked up. Thats what already happens. You aren't arguing for change, so no change will happen.
Now I don't know how effectively this can be treated, but I'm going to assume that anything has a better success rate than just going it alone.
If you're only interested in locking them up after the fact then you're treating the symptoms rather than the cause, and children will continue to suffer.
"Lock them up" is the easy answer. It lets you sit up on your moral high horse and yell "pedos are bad" (no shit Sherlock) without doing anything to change the situation.
Obviously offenders should be locked up. Thats what already happens. You aren't arguing for change, so no change will happen.
Chairmanchuck
Member
I think Japan itself has a problem with underage girls.
Wasnt real CP legal till 2000 or 2001?
And instead of that you now have "fake" Idol CP with underage girls licking bananas, eating white icecream, bathing in really skimmy swimsuits and shit like that.
What I am wondering is, are those videos actually there to combat real pedophilia or if those videos actually have the opposite effect.
Thanks for responding! Very interesting topic.
I'm always interested in learning more and your op was very informative.
Prison is specifically intended for people that can't be in society because their urges are something society can't accept. Pedophilia is one of those urges. If they can't be rehabilitated, which it seems is largely the case, then containment is the appropriate response.
Generally we don't lock those people up for life and call it a day.
These people are obviously ill. They should be in a mental health facility if they need to be anywhere for life, not a prison.
Herr Starr
Member
Isn't the average 5-year recidivism rate in the US more than 75% already?
We should look at it as a horrible affliction some people have. By condemning the thought of it people are driven underground, away from help. The stigma should be attached to the act, not the urge, no different to how you'd address someone who has the urge to burn things when compared to an actual arsonist.
Sympathy shouldn't be seen as endorsement. Louis CK made an interesting point in comparing it to a curse - having your sexual desires irrevocably tied to a criminal activity is, if anything, something a rational person would never choose. It's a life of being viewed as the worst thing a person could be.
Aside from that I think pedophiles who act on urges, in any form, should live the rest of their lives in prison or under heavy surveillance. When you see how victims are impacted nothing less seems appropriate.
Sympathy shouldn't be seen as endorsement. Louis CK made an interesting point in comparing it to a curse - having your sexual desires irrevocably tied to a criminal activity is, if anything, something a rational person would never choose. It's a life of being viewed as the worst thing a person could be.
Aside from that I think pedophiles who act on urges, in any form, should live the rest of their lives in prison or under heavy surveillance. When you see how victims are impacted nothing less seems appropriate.
Karsticles
Member
They have been defined for me. As I said, I am using the same standard nearly every person you will meet in this world uses. Sexually abuse kids? Pedophile. Simple.
Absolutely is.
Is there help? The brief things I have read suggest that it isn't an alterable state. We think homosexuality is immutable, but it's not clear to me why pedophilia is regarded as a curable mental illness. Unless you are one of those individuals who thinks homosexuality is purely genetic, which is a claim with no supporting evidence.
The social stigma has to be great, because that stigma is the result of parental instincts to protect their children from harm. I can't even fathom a world where someone might walk up to me and, in a brief conversation, mention that he or she is sexually attracted to children, and I an unfazed by that. Certainly, that person would never even come to know my son. I would not want to be around that person anymore because it would provide that person with potential access to my son. Some people, I imagine, might try to walk a fine line and maintain some kind of social relationship with that person, but in my mind that person now opens him or herself up for harm to the child.
A person openly admitting to being a pedophile doesn't make that person less dangerous in my eyes. No more than any other kind of criminal. If someone were to tell me that they often think about raping my wife, I would not feel safer because that person has told me. I would also not feel as though that person is less likely to proceed with that action because I have been informed of it.
The unfortunate truth is that some people are broken, and we are unable to fix them. The sensible thing is to control them so that innocent individuals are not put in harm's way.
Simple question regarding disclosure: if you were hiring a teacher for a school you are the principal of, and the interviewee stated that he or she was sexually attracted to children as a matter of legal disclosure, do you think it would be appropriate to hire that person? I think anything other than a clear "no" is indefensible.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
That's what therapy is for, but if you are in an uncontrollable state and already did the action well quite frankly can't say I feel any pity.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1433662
Was a recent event and a shit show
Do you see what youre saying?
"We're talking about the innocent pedophiles, and its important to talk about pre treatment, because if we dont treat them, more children will be raped."?
Aizo
Banned
Sadly, it is usually only a couple train cars and only for certain rush hour traffic. I wish they had more train cars that were permanent safe spaces all hours of the day.
Luckily, the government was pushing laws to stop these maid cafes that advertise being able to hang out with high school girls. Many of these cafes were linked to sex trafficking. My Japanese female friend didn't think the cafes were creepy. I was like "What the fuck! The customers would be considered likely sex offenders where I come from." That idea had not even come to mind for her.
I think everyone goes too easy on men and their sexual urges in Japan.
Queen Vulpix
Member
While I live alone and don't see them except for holidays or when I go out with my mother and them I do have 2 younger sisters and their safety from people who could potentially harm them is something I certainly think about especially since my mother has become more lax with them then she was with me.
As for how to go about reducing it, I don't see any foolproof/easy way to go about doing so. Like many posters have mentioned in this thread educating kids to be aware and clamping down on the sexualization of children is certainly something that should be very prevalent. Is castration mandated for first time offenders? If not I feel should be for anyone who sexually abuses any child on top of whatever other punishment that is justified. Though with the ever growing internet it seems like there are more avenues for people like that to feed their bad desires now more then ever and I certainly give credit for how much the authorities are already able to do online.
As for how to go about reducing it, I don't see any foolproof/easy way to go about doing so. Like many posters have mentioned in this thread educating kids to be aware and clamping down on the sexualization of children is certainly something that should be very prevalent. Is castration mandated for first time offenders? If not I feel should be for anyone who sexually abuses any child on top of whatever other punishment that is justified. Though with the ever growing internet it seems like there are more avenues for people like that to feed their bad desires now more then ever and I certainly give credit for how much the authorities are already able to do online.
Sure, but only if you're comparing being arrested for things like drug use and theft to things like child molestation. In the "sexual offense" category, child molestation is high recidivism.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-heroux/sex-offenders-recidivism_b_976765.html
Released rapists: 2.5%
Convicted pedophiles: 10% to 50%
Are they mentally ill? And don't just kneejerk yes. If this is a biological need then they are not mentally ill and I don't see how that treatment helps them?
Herr Schwarz
Banned
Was expecting amirox thread. Now that was a shit show.
But that stat doesn't state whether or not they commited a act of pedophilia. And when the main problems with recidivism of pedophilia is that pedophilia isn't tracked by ucr.
HazySaiyan
Banned
And nobody's saying you should feel pity for those people, we're specifically talking about people who haven't committed any crime.
If it isn't a mental illness then I don't know what else to call it.
If it is genetics then hopefully as genetic modification becomes viable for humans we can find a way to edit it out of people.
Sunster
Member
and the fact that idols are not allowed to date because their male fans will get upset just tells me men in Japan have some issues to work through.
I really don't wanna seem like I hate Japan or something. I love it, its just Japan is a prime example of a place where the image of women seems to be catered to men's desires and I think that's kinda gross. I am not Japanese so if I'm off someone please educate me. I'm just working off passive observations.
Mammoth Jones
Member
No. I think it's inhumane to allow something new out that you know rapes children then act shocked they do it again.
That is essentially what I am saying, goes for most crimes. If you don't give people more likely to commit a crime an outlet then, obviously the chances of them committing is going to rise.
You can try to make it an emotional thing if you want though. That is logic.
Absolutely not, but you like to use your own definition of things, so I am done discussing it with you.
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