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Let's talk about how to actually combat pedophilia

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As an educator who deals with the mental health and social development of children, seeing the particularly horrific Iceland case in the headlines made me feel the need to make a thread to discuss how we as a society can truly address this enormous issue. The guidelines presented below were informed by the widely-acclaimed abuse prevention program of organization Darkness to Light as well as peer-reviewed studies by Cushman (2005), Andrzejewski (2006), Newberry (2007), Stronach (2008) and several others. All are fascinating reads in their own right.

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Pedophilia
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Pedophilia is an extremely tricky problem to combat, largely because of the unparalleled level of emotion involved in cases of child abuse and the secretive nature of the crimes. One of the biggest problems is that there are few concrete facts and definitions associated with the problem out there, so let's get a few basic ones out of the way first:


  1. A pedophile is someone who desires explicit sexual contact with pre-pubescent children. This is defined as physical contact with the breasts, buttocks or genitals (clothed or unclothed), oral contact with a child on any part of their body, and/or coercing a child to perform explicit sexual acts on themselves or someone else.
  2. The "bathing suit area" refers to the area of a child's body that should always be deemed off-limits to the touches of others. The concrete rule must be: No physical contact between an adult and a child, or a child and another child, should involve the bathing suit area outside of a strict and supervised medical context.
  3. Most child sexual abuse is committed by people known by the child and their family. Parents, siblings, uncles/aunts and family friends are the most frequent perpetrators. "Stranger Danger" is a myth.
  4. "Grooming" is a term that refers to an older child or adult attempting to integrate themselves into a potential victim's life to facilitate an abusive scenario. It manifests as gift-giving, special favors, frequent unwanted touching, and continuous attempts to gain access to a specific child above and beyond what would normally be accepted. It does NOT refer to general gestures of friendliness towards a child or non-sexual, non-intimate physical contact UNLESS that contact is constant and causes the child distress.
  5. Secrecy is an enormous component of what allows these acts to go unreported. Pedophiles always seek to isolate their targets both physically and emotionally from their families and peers.

The solution, in my mind, is for both parents and educators to teach children in kindergarten the three R's:
  • Recognize that no one can touch where their bathing suit covers.
  • Resist anyone trying to touch them in that area. If it's an adult or an older child: run, kick, scream. If it's someone their age: call for an adult immediately.
  • Report to a parent or teacher anything upsetting that they did, or were asked to do, with the absolute assurance that they will not face any negative consequences for sharing. They must be aware that this applies even if they promised to keep it ”secret."
In addition, children should be taught that it's always okay to kindly ask someone to stop touching them if they aren't comfortable with the touch. This empowers children by recognizing their ability to consent to touch they enjoy while rejecting touch that makes them uncomfortable.

Equally important to combating this problem is emphasizing what sort of contact ISN'T a danger to children, and merely distracts us from the true threats. Just as we must enforce that the "bad touches" need to be reported and punished, we must also protect the legitimacy of "good touches." A parent kissing their child on the lips should never be the cause of controversy, as it was in June's David Beckham fiasco. Nor should we allow male childcare workers to be profiled and attacked by parents and coworkers for consensual contact that isn't sexually explicit (hugs, tickles and touches outside of the bathing suit area, etc).

Gentle, silly, affectionate and nurturing physical contact between children and the adults around them is a very important part of their social and emotional development, and viewing them with reckless suspicion benefits no one. Even if parents are uncomfortable with their children talking with strangers at the park, or engaging in consensual horseplay with a male teacher, they must recognize that these are minor personal issues with their own comfort and not actual threats to their child's safety.

With these concrete guidelines, the tactics abusers rely on will be far less reliable thanks to an informed child population and adults who evaluate actual threats more effectively.

What are your thoughts on these topics and the guidelines presented? Have you implemented similar guidelines within your community? If not, how do you think you could work towards doing so?
 
I firmly believe known pedophiles should be permanently segrated from society for life via prison. No second chances for that shit.

Teaching kids is very important. Also that other kids that were molested then act that shit out on OTHER children.

But yea education is key and empowering kids with the knowledge that they are allowed to say no to an adult.
 

njean777

Member
Actually listening to them would be a good start. Instantly throwing them to the sharks doesn't help things at all.

People forget not so long ago a grown man being married to 12-16 year olds was common. Not defending the behavior but just bringing up a point.
 

Ogodei

Member
As far as what the child can do, i think you've said just about everything that needs to be said.

Adults need to strike a more careful balance, because we definitely have a problem of moral panic with, in particular, innocuous adult male -> child interactions getting misinterpreted as attempted pedophilia. It's important for adults to recognize when a child is being made uncomfortable (and when they aren't), and ask them if they feel like anything bad is happening (which meshes with the idea that children are taught that it's always okay to tell a trusted adult even if they promised the predator to keep it a secret).

Of course, this only addresses the in-person acts committed and doesn't address the broader problem of internet pedophilia.
 

CGwizz

Member
Actually listening to them would be a good start. Instantly throwing them to the sharks doesn't help things at all.

People forget not so long ago a grown man being married to 12-16 year olds was common. Not defending the behavior but just bringing up a point.

What the fuck...
 

Sunster

Member
Actually listening to them would be a good start. Instantly throwing them to the sharks doesn't help things at all.

People forget not so long ago a grown man being married to 12-16 year olds was common. Not defending the behavior but just bringing up a point.

listening to them tell me what exactly?
 

njean777

Member
What the fuck...

It was common in Europe.

This topic is divisive. I think if you have somebody go to a therapist that hasn't acted in their feelings they should be helped without being reported. We do it for depression, OCD, Etc.

Now if the person has acted on their feelings and has abused or molested a child then that is the point they need to separated from society.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
Yea sure and once they reveal that shit they should be removed from society.

... you realize how fucked this is right? Not all pedophiles are actively going after kids because they realize their desires are not healthy and incredibly destructive and detrimental. Some do it with chemical castration, some join support groups or go to therapists but treating them like animals to be penned isn't really dealing with the problem. Like most things we should be taking this head on and actively trying to figure out how to help these people curb their desires instead of just destroying their lives for what could happen.
 

shaneo632

Member
I think the way we deal with paedophiles is pretty embarrassing as a society. People make it far too much of an emotional issue and tend to not think logically about it from a humanist perspective. I think we need to look at the mental health aspect rather than just calling for them to be chemically castrated or strung up as so many do.

Also paedophle and child molester shouldn't be conflated with one another.
 

Volimar

Member
Definitely need to make kids aware like that. The problem for society is that there's no really proven treatment. There's no reason for pedophiles to come forward and be ostracized if there's no real help for them. Even chemical castration isn't completely effective, and you can still mess a kid up for life without penetration. I'm afraid this is going to be a problem that society has to live with for quite some time.
 

Aizo

Banned
Scary, scary stuff.
Interesting part about parents reinforcing children recognize the sort of physical contact that is important to development. Men are often demonized for even being playful or affectionate towards children. I must admit that I'm often suspicious of men who are super playful with kids when a woman doing the same thing wouldn't bother me one bit. It's slightly for good reason, but it's also partially unfair.
 
listening to them tell me what exactly?

I think he's trying to say many adults won't believe a child when the child tells them that person is bad

Or something like that. I think we need to educate kids sure, i think many young children who are sexually abused are not necessarily equipped with the language needed to really talk about it
 
Listened to a thing on the radio a few days ago. They interviewed two guys in their twenties that admitted to having sexual thoughts about under age children. And how they recognised their tastes didn't change as they got older. They both knew it was extremely wrong to act on these impulses and wouldn't have contact with children. It was something they couldn't stop feeling inside them.

Was very interesting. Made me think that there are probably loads of people in a similar situation that don't act but still know they have these attractions.
 
encouraging them to seek help

i feel like shaming them via sex offender lists and ostracizing them from society is counterproductive. someone trying to kill these urges will be more likely to relapse if they are isolated

also anime should be banned
 

Sunster

Member
encouraging them to seek help

i feel like shaming them via sex offender lists and ostracizing them from society is counterproductive. someone trying to kill these urges will be more likely to relapse if they are isolated

also anime should be banned

but that offender list also informs and protects potential victims

as for anime, some things gotta change. but you can't really ban an art form. especially the most popular art form like, ever.
 

Aizo

Banned
stopping the sexualization of children in media is a good start.
Seriously. This shit upsets me so much. It's really bad in Japan :( Reading articles about how much schoolgirls are molested on trains, and how it is often much worse than grabbing their butt, is fucking disgusting and enraging. I think the sexualization in media is definitely not helping, no matter how someone feels about it. I don't see what good comes of it.

I've gotten into too many arguments about this on GAF. It typically ends with the other person getting banned...
 

Sapiens

Member
stopping the sexualization of children in media is a good start.


Are we serious here? It's the kids fault for being too sexy?

Here's how you solve it: If they are a first offender, they go to jail for as long as the law will provide.

If they offend twice, somehow, they get castrated and put in jail forever.

Done.
 

Tagyhag

Member
Zero tolerance for those who act on their urges, maximum sentences.

But, to those who haven't committed any crimes, they should receive free counseling and whatever psychiatrists believe will help them get cured.

Yea sure and once they reveal that shit they should be removed from society.

Dude, I hope you never hold a position of power. You're scary as hell.
 

Carnby

Member
Actually listening to them would be a good start. Instantly throwing them to the sharks doesn't help things at all.

People forget not so long ago a grown man being married to 12-16 year olds was common. Not defending the behavior but just bringing up a point.

Dude, you're begging for an avatar quote.
 

Sylas

Member
... you realize how fucked this is right? Not all pedophiles are actively going after kids because they realize their desires are not healthy and incredibly destructive and detrimental. Some do it with chemical castration, some join support groups or go to therapists but treating them like animals to be penned isn't really dealing with the problem. Like most things we should be taking this head on and actively trying to figure out how to help these people curb their desires instead of just destroying their lives for what could happen.

I think he's saying that they need to get locked away once they've acted on those urges. Or at least I hope that's what's being said because I agree 100% on that front. If someone acts on that, I'm not sure I care much about their rehabilitation.
 
Scary, scary stuff.
Interesting part about parents reinforcing children recognize the sort of physical contact that is important to development. Men are often demonized for even being playful or affectionate towards children. I must admit that I'm often suspicious of men who are super playful with kids when a woman doing the same thing wouldn't bother me one bit. It's slightly for good reason, but it's also partially unfair.

I do it too from time to time, but I've learned to catch myself. Part of the problem is that we as a society still get repulsed by the idea of older or unattractive men being nurturing towards kids the way we're used to moms and grandmas being.

Ironically, I've found fighting for the rights of men in a typically female profession to be a pretty feminist cause. It's basically the equivalent of female business leaders being called "bitchy" for being assertive in the way male leaders are expected to be.

At some point, the law itself really needs to address this sort of gender profiling. Anything that doesn't violate the above stated guidelines should not cause an issue for the alleged "perpetrator."
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
but that offender list also informs and protects potential victims

Yes and no. A lot of people on the sex offender's list are there for things not at all related to sexual molesting children and there are a lot of cases of people ending up there for really arbitrary reasons and basically having their life ruined because the way the list is compiled and set up is very archaic at this point. Its a good idea that is not very well implemented in a lot of ways.
 

Osahi

Member
Yea sure and once they reveal that shit they should be removed from society.

This is counterproductive I think. Sexual contact of any kind with kids is absolutely off-limits and 100% a disgusting act, but there are a lot of paedophiles who never act on their urges. To expell someone for something he actually has no say in (it's more a sexual orientation than you might realize) would be disgraceful, and force people into silence/hiding and less inclined to seek help.

I think we have to except some people will have those urges and not immidiately condemn them for it when they don't act on them. We have to urge these people to get help, as to avoid one day they would act on it.

The stigma on paedophilia makes this very difficult though, and I think it will take decades before maybe paedophilia as an orientation isn't considered a crime anymore in the public opinion. (Again, sexual acts with children is, and always will and should be considered abuse, and be met with the most severe punishment possible)
 
Actually listening to them would be a good start. Instantly throwing them to the sharks doesn't help things at all.

People forget not so long ago a grown man being married to 12-16 year olds was common. Not defending the behavior but just bringing up a point.

um, naaaaah brah. what in the actual fuck?
 

Aizo

Banned
also anime should be banned
Genuinely, though, a lot of anime is made that should really set off many alarms for the creative team that maybe they're making something atrocious.

My friend asked me to hunt down an indie manga once for him, and the things I saw in some of those shops would really disturb you. There was a porn anime of a little girl playing in the shop that made me have to leave and give up finding the comic for my friend. Couldn't deal.
 
Yea sure and once they reveal that shit they should be removed from society.

Exactly. I'm always a believer of the rule of what victim over criminal. I would rather have an outcome where the victim feels safe than give a second chance to a scum. There should be a service for those who have the thoughts to help them before they commit a crime. Dream would be all child porn is removed from the internet but that's an impossible task unfortunately.
 
Are we serious here? It's the kids fault for being too sexy?

Here's how you solve it: If they are a first offender, they go to jail for as long as the law will provide.

If they offend twice, somehow, they get castrated and put in jail forever.

Done.

How do you solve those that are pedos that are closeted is what people are saying.

How do you create outreach to people that are conscious of their desires?

And that's why that poster talked about that kind of kid culture I guess.

No one is going to post in a sensible manner in terms of addressing prevention when others are going to completely combat drop on their posts without bothering for a second to actually understand what they're saying.

Just so you can prove some kind of moral superiority over an argument that was never there to begin with.

Good job I guess?
 

oni_saru

Member
OP, do you know the difference between a child molester and a pedophile?

I was once told that child molester =/= a pedophile because child molester are opportunists who are taking advantage of a situation while pedophiles have a biological desire for children

So a child molester is not necessarily abusing the child cuz he/she has an attraction to children. They're just taking advantage of a situation (ie being alone with someone)

Your post is very interesting and informative. However i was remembering what one training i did taught me regarding molesters vs pedophiles and am curious what you think about this distinction

Could i get your thoughts on this?
 

JonnyKong

Member
This is what I listened to on radio 1 the other day. Eye opening.

Yeah most definitely. I always assumed paedophilia most come naturally to somebody as naturally as homosexuality comes to others. It must be quite an awful, lonely and dark place for somebody who doesn't want to feel these attractions towards children, but can't help it, especially those that know they don't want to and won't ever act on their urges.
 
I do think that because the topic involves children things get far too emotional. For those who don't act on their urges I really wish there was better treatment for them. As far as I know there isn't even a lot of research done to find better therapy either. For those who act they need to be segregated and definitely put on watch lists. Without good treatment there is no way to protect ourselves
 
OP, you keep saying "pedophilia" when what you mean to say is "sex offenders." I'm of the firm belief that there are tons and tons of pedophiles out there who manage to keep their desires to themselves without ever harming anyone. The "solutions" you discuss have nothing to do with pedophilia, and everything to do with child abuse.

I think this deserves being pedantic about. We're never going to win this battle if we can't properly identify the perpetrators without alienating a huge amount of non-offending people. Research also seems to indicate that most child sex abuse isn't committed by actual pedophiles, which makes things even muddier.
 

Keasar

Member
I am of the controversial opinion that society needs to drop the extreme prejudice against them. Not that we shouldn't persecute actual offenders, but the problem is that people with pedophiliac behaviors cannot, as much as they want to, seek help from society. We have a tendency to react with extreme anger and hate at the mere mention of it and this drives them away from getting the help they need.

If they could admit that they are sexually attracted to children, and instead of immediatly ostracizing them from society we would offer them help instead, I think that would go a long way to combating the problem.

Far too many are afraid to come out with the problem and when they can't do that, there can't be any other outcome then that desire just grows over the years until they act on it.

If someone commits a sexual act with a child, I am all for persecuting them under the full extent of the law, but I wanna see this problem solved long term rather than we just react at when it happens. Often too late.
 

Sunster

Member
Yes and no. A lot of people on the sex offender's list are there for things not at all related to sexual molesting children and there are a lot of cases of people ending up there for really arbitrary reasons and basically having their life ruined because the way the list is compiled and set up is very archaic at this point. Its a good idea that is not very well implemented in a lot of ways.

it is very flawed and needs to be updated I know but there needs to be a list of offenders to protect children. molesters can't just return to society and be anonymous again.
 
OP, you keep saying "pedophilia" when what you mean to say is "sex offenders." I'm of the firm belief that there are tons and tons of pedophiles out there who manage to keep their desires to themselves without ever harming anyone. The "solutions" you discuss have nothing to do with pedophilia, and everything to do with child abuse.

I think this deserves being pedantic about. We're never going to win this battle if we can't properly identify the perpetrators without alienating a huge amount of non-offending people. Research also seems to indicate that most child sex abuse isn't committed by actual pedophiles, which makes things even muddier.
Sources?
 
Yeah, I'm in the mind that if they haven't committed anything yet and they are actively seeking for help then there should be a way to get them the help they need. But if they've already committed the act of violating a child then they should have the book thrown at them. In most societies we've come to the agreement that prepubescent children are off limits and it's a huge violation of the social contract so there's no excuse to act on those feelings. But then we get to the problem on how we deal with this. As someone who deals with depression, I don't talk to anyone about it out of shame and anxiety, I can only imagine it's 100x worse with someone that has those thoughts of kids, knows it's wrong and wants help dealing with it, but finds it hard to talk about it without people automatically disowning him.

I guess the best way to tackle this problem is to bring more awareness to the issue and convince people to seek help before they act on those feelings and educate others to not castrate pedophiles when they are actively seeking help. It's a tricky subject to handle.
 
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