Support NeoGAF

[Herr Schwarz]

If it isn't a mental illness then I don't know what else to call it.

If it is genetics then hopefully as genetic modification becomes viable for humans we can find a way to edit it out of people.

Yeah and pray Mike pence isn't president at that point either.

The idea to edit things out of people is dangerous.

Possibly one of THE most dangerous.

There's a fundamental misunderstanding as to what a pedophile is or isn't.

You could re read this thread, replace the word pedophile with gay. And pretend were a Mike Pence/Hard Christian right forum. And a lot of posts would be apt.

Especially the notion of conversion therapy.

 

[kswiston]

Even if recidivism for pedophiles is around 10% instead of the 50-75% estimates, that is still too high. Especially given the rates at which these things are reported.

Child molesters ruin lives. Pedophilia doesn't go away. A lot of criminals can be rehabilitated, but child rapists are probably closer to serial killers than most criminals. If that urge will be there for the rest of their lives, why roll the dice on having them be able to control it? They have already demonstrated an inability to do so.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

You keep repeating this. We get it. It also doesn't really deal with the problem as I said. It just deals with the aftermath. No one is doubting your disgust and hatred of child molesters and no on is saying you should feel otherwise but you don't even seem to think past,"Fuck em all" which does no one any good.

I understand your point and I agree to a point. I'm all for giving it a shot even though I don't think it'll work. Ain't changing these mofos when they don't want to change.

If therapy will stop them from going down that path. Do it. If drugs will do the trick. Do it. Chemical castration works? Do it.

But once that line gets crossed I see no redemption for them at all. They should never be free to assault another child.

Even if recidivism for pedophiles is around 10% instead of the 50-75% estimates, that is still too high. Especially given the rates at which these things are reported.

Child molesters ruin lives. Pedophilia doesn't go away. A lot of criminals can be rehabilitated, but child rapists are probably closer to serial killers than most criminals. If that urge will be there for the rest of their lives, why roll the dice on having them be able to control it? They have already demonstrated an inability to do so.

Exactly. I wonder would everyone talking about limited jail time for these people let them come live in their homes? With their families? Around their children?

So why put em around other people? This thread is turning into weird like it always does when this subject comes up here.

 

[Teren_Kanan]

Not touching the core of the topic.

But Anime/Media creating pedophiles is literally the same thing as violent video games creating violent criminals.

Good Grief.

 

[Brakke]

Yes and no. A lot of people on the sex offender's list are there for things not at all related to sexual molesting children and there are a lot of cases of people ending up there for really arbitrary reasons and basically having their life ruined because the way the list is compiled and set up is very archaic at this point. Its a good idea that is not very well implemented in a lot of ways.

There's a crazy situation in Wisconsin where anybody under 18 is a child for purposes of being a victim but anybody over 17 is an adult for purposes of being a perpetrator. So if two 17 year olds have sex with each other, they're both guilty of sexual contact with a minor (usually just the boy gets charged in heterosexual pairings though, of course).

 

[Herr Starr]

They have been defined for me. As I said, I am using the same standard nearly every person you will meet in this world uses. Sexually abuse kids? Pedophile. Simple.

Well if you're not interested in learning or discussing anything but only wish to share your ill-informed opinion while being passive aggressive against those who disagree, then I see no reason in debating the issue with you. Feel free to be this thread's Donald Trump if you like, but you'll have to do it without me.

Sure, but only if you're comparing being arrested for things like drug use and theft to things like child molestation. In the "sexual offense" category, child molestation is high recidivism.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-heroux/sex-offenders-recidivism_b_976765.html

Released rapists: 2.5%
Convicted pedophiles: 10% to 50%

Thanks, that's exactly the kind of answer I was looking for. That's a surprisingly large disparity between those numbers.

 

[Ogodei]

The latest episode of Vice on HBO had a segment about the Dark Web and specifically about child trafficking. Followed an undercover agent on a couple operations to catch some really shitty people in the Philippines, props to guys like that who are able to keep their cool talking to people who want to literally sell you children, can't be an easy job.

One of the methods they talked about was using AI chatbots pretending to be children, and it seemed like they had a pretty good success rate of getting some kind of identifying information from these people, but they still needed to solve the problem at scale as currently they require human operators.

I saw that episode too. The bot is a good idea, but automating it to scale up would be a terrible idea. Imagine all of those YouTube videos that get content strikes for the wrong reasons, then we're moving on to ruining people's lives because of a false positive off of an AI.

It's cool that they've got more sophisticated sting techniques, but automated rule enforcement systems haven't got a good track record and really shouldn't be expanded to the legal field.

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

I often times wonder what % of society has some sort of attraction to any age of minors, meaning both pedophilia or ephebophilia (Teenagers). Then I wonder how many actually act on that attraction. In total my question is, because I bet most of them are closeted about it?

 

[Jenov]

But that stat doesn't state whether or not they commited a act of pedophilia. And when the main problems with recidivism of pedophilia is that pedophilia isn't tracked by ucr.

They offer a secondary study result right after:

One long-term study of previously convicted pedophiles (with an average follow-up of 25 years) found that one-fourth of heterosexual pedophiles and one-half of homosexual or bisexual pedophiles went on to commit another sexual offense against children.

It's definitely a high recidivism rate, although the exact rate can vary based on a number of research definitions and methods, it's still anywhere from 10% to 50% -- which is horrifying when compared to other sexual crimes, like a convicted adult rapist (2.5%).

 

[Emperor_Uriel]

For the record, my goal in creating these guidelines is primarily to support the safety and well being of children and the adults that work with them. I give little thought to the plight of actual pedophiles, though there are some arguments in this thread that have piqued my interest.

I think we have to actually get beyond the "hysteria" of accusing every adult that has physical contact with kids of being a pedophile before we can even begin to consider how to help actual pedophiles permanently overcome their bizarre desires.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

There must be a way to seek out confidential help surely. I think asking society to change it's attitude just isn't going to work. It will never be viewed as anything but abhorrent.

 

[Korigama]

This I agree with, fuck anime.

Except JoJo's, that's fine.

The most recent episode from Part 3 of JoJo that aired on Toonami was definitely not fine (seems the blame lies with the production studio warping the source material in that case, though).

 

[TarNaru33]

I understand your point and I agree to a point. I'm all for giving it a shot even though I don't think it'll work. Ain't changing these mofos when they don't want to change.

If therapy will stop them from going down that path. Do it. If drugs will do the trick. Do it. Chemical castration works? Do it.

But once that line gets crossed I see no redemption for them at all. They should never be free to assault another child.

Do people who have this thought believe this with all rapists? From a logical standpoint I don't see the difference other than the lack of defense of the victim.

I believe in rehabilitation for all but the most heinous of crimes where one takes away any chance of the victim becoming better (murder and torture), but not as a standard as obviously context matters.

 

[Kthulhu]

Yeah and pray Mike pence isn't president at that point either.

The idea to edit things out of people is dangerous.

Possibly one of THE most dangerous.

There's a fundamental misunderstanding as to what a pedophile is or isn't.

You could re read this thread, replace the word pedophile with gay. And pretend were a Mike Pence/Hard Christian right forum. And a lot of posts would be apt.

Especially the notion of conversion therapy.

I'm not gonna argue bioethics in this thread. I'm just saying that if pedophilia is truly a result of a person's genes, then once we have the technology to edit genes in or out of embryos then we could prevent pedophiles from ever existing.

 

[QisTopTier]

And nobody's saying you should feel pity for those people, we're specifically talking about people who haven't committed any crime.

But this is basically a thread about people who commit acts of pedophilia and how it can be identified and ways to educate children how to protect themselves and adults to not over react and also identify when something is wrong.

It's basically turned into a feel bad for closet pedos instead of the victims of ones who act on their urges. This shit is wack.

The answer is therapy, yes they might get marked but oh well they themselves should know they are a potential bomb. Should a pedo in therapy be a school teacher or a bus driver? No most likely not. Should that stop them from getting a warehouse job, nah

Do people who have this thought believe this with all rapists? From a logical standpoint I don't see the difference other than the lack of defense of the victim.

I believe in rehabilitation for all but the most heinous of crimes where one takes away any chance of the victim becoming better (murder and torture), but not as a standard as obviously context matters.

A good majority of rape cases are torture....

 

[tcrunch]

I went through this thread and it seems to:

1. Still be stuck on the image of the pedophile as some stranger that swoops in and molests a kid, whereas the facts indicate that the perpetrator is usually the child's parent, sibling, or another close family member or family friend

2. Be WAY more concerned with the fate of perpetrators who have already committed child abuse or the day-to-day struggles of closet pedophiles than it is with the protection of children

I think the "three R's" and the differentiation of "good/bad" touching described in the OP is an interesting topic in its own right. Many parents refuse to even give their children a sex ed talk, but I think they could be convinced to do this sort of talk out of sheer self interest.

When the perpetrator is the child's parent or family member (again, most cases are like this and NOT some person crawling out of the basement to kidnap kids), how do you prevent THAT kind of child abuse? Should the Three R's be mandatory teaching in kindergarten?

 

[Kyzer]

Generally we don't lock those people up for life and call it a day.

These people are obviously ill. They should be in a mental health facility if they need to be anywhere for life, not a prison.

For raping children..?

Yes we do...?

 

[Mammoth Jones]

They offer a secondary study result right after:

One long-term study of previously convicted pedophiles (with an average follow-up of 25 years) found that one-fourth of heterosexual pedophiles and one-half of homosexual or bisexual pedophiles went on to commit another sexual offense against children.

Jail for life. No parole. There should be no more math for this equation. I'm not saying the jail needs to be a torture dump. Give em some modern amenities but they should NEVER be free to be around children.

It's basically turned into a feel bad for closet pedos instead of the victims of ones who act on their urges. This shit is wack.

Agreed. Completely.

 

[Beefy]

For the record, my goal in creating these guidelines is primarily to support the safety and well being of children and the adults that work with them. I give little thought to the plight of actual pedophiles, though there are some arguments in this thread that have piqued my interest.

I think we have to actually get beyond the "hysteria" of accusing every adult that has physical contact with kids of being a pedophile before we can even begin to consider how to help actual pedophiles permanently overcome their bizarre desires.

The only way you are going to stop paedos is to have adults being aware of the signs that is something wrong with a child. There is no way you put anything on a child to get them to stop a paedo abusing them.

That and paedos/ molesters should be able to get help with their issues if they haven't commited a act. Castration could be a thing.

Soon as a paedo etc abuses/ rapes a child they should be locked up for far longer then they do and should be castrated.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

Wait so pedophilia is only attraction to prepubescent children? So, say, sex with a 14 year old is not an example of this? What you call that?

 

[Quonny]

Wait so pedophilia is only attraction to prepubescent children? So, say, sex with a 14 year old is not an example of this? What you call that?

Ephebophilia.

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

Wait so pedophilia is only attraction to prepubescent children? So, say, sex with a 14 year old is not an example of this? What you call that?

ephebophilia/ Hebephilia

Its still against western social values but the human race has a long standing issue with forcing not totally developed people to marry adults.

Made some edits because I didnt know shit about this stuff.

 

[hodgy100]

I understand. But I don't view pedophilia as a sexual orientation. As to how someone gets like that I just don't think we're ever going to "cure" or "treat" pedophiles. So my priority isn't sympathy or understanding for them. It's not even "how to achieve the goal that best for them AND the kids". It's "what do we do to keep these nasty motherfuckers from touching kids. Full stop". That's my priority in the conversation. Sorry. Not sorry.

I'm all for there being a place for them to be provided help. I just think that help should come with four walls and guards.



I'm more concerned about the victims than them. Sorry.

By permanently ostracizing them you are making things worse for the victims and potential victims because you force paedophiles to closet themselves and then them being unable to manage their urges because seeking help gets them cast out from society they commit a horrible act on a child.

So well done your plan to tackle this issue would likely cause more child abuse not less.

 

[TarNaru33]

A good majority of rape cases are torture....

That is why I said "not as a standard as context matter" because rape can be considered torture especially since the perpetrator derives pleasure from it, which is the worst part.

Its just I do believe people can recover from rape to live a happy life despite that scar. Those who are murdered can't, it is over for them and those who suffer serious torture likely won't recover either.

 

[Joni]

Wait so pedophilia is only attraction to prepubescent children? So, say, sex with a 14 year old is not an example of this? What you call that?

Hebephilia

 

[Phased]

Yeah and pray Mike pence isn't president at that point either.

The idea to edit things out of people is dangerous.

Possibly one of THE most dangerous.

There's a fundamental misunderstanding as to what a pedophile is or isn't.

You could re read this thread, replace the word pedophile with gay. And pretend were a Mike Pence/Hard Christian right forum. And a lot of posts would be apt.

Especially the notion of conversion therapy.

The gay comparison is way out of left field and just wrong.

What two consenting adults do is nobody's business. Children cannot give consent, so your argument doesn't hold any water.

 

[Beefy]

That is why I said "not as a standard as context matter" because rape can be considered torture especially since the perpetrator derives pleasure from it, which is the worst part.

Its just I do believe people can recover from rape to live a happy life despite that scar.

Can and will are different things. Not everyone recovers.

 

[ModBot]

We are not going to allow a discussion where users advance arguments like "Ephebophilia is different than pedophilia".