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[Kard8p3]

I expect some truly amazing dungeons from Skyward Sword and I expect it to have the best overworld of the 3D games based on what we've heard.

One thing I noticed in the Ghirihim scene before the boss fight is when he's talking about how Zelda should've already fallen into their hands he says they almost had her when that loathsome servant of the goddess snatched her away. It's interesting to me that he only mentions one goddess.

 

[watershed]

Same old same old, you say?

Eh, I don't want to get into a whole debate about TP. Let's just say it wasn't my cup of tea. In fact after I played it, and stopped before beating it, I wondered if I was just tired of the Zelda series. A real bummer as I love the Zelda franchise. But after playing OoT3D I am happy to say I still love the series and the gameplay and setting and music and just about everything else about it. After E3 I'm really looking forward to SS. but with TP there are just too many things that annoy me or wore on me as the experience dragged on.

 

[TheCongressman1]

It's interesting to me that he only mentions one goddess.

Well, they do have a single giant statue of a woman in Skyloft. So, no triforce, one god. This is going to be a very interesting story.

 

[Kard8p3]

Well, they do have a single giant statue of a woman in Skyloft. So, no triforce, one god. This is going to be a very interesting story.

Thing is the triforce is on the hylian shield. Other than that we haven't seen the triforce anywhere in the footage we have. Maybe in the final version the Triforce will be taken off the hylian shield.

 

[Luigiv]

The dungeons are the best part of the game. Some of the best dungeons in the series appear in this game.

As a long time Zelda fan, I disagree. I thought TP's dungeons were mediocre at best. They were oddly laid out, linear and overly combat focused. I simply do not understand people who liked TP's dungeon design.

 

[Kard8p3]

As a long time Zelda fan, I disagree. I thought TP's dungeons were mediocre at best. They were oddly laid out, linear and overly combat focused. I simply do not understand people who liked TP's dungeon design.

I thought snowpeak and the city in the sky were some of the best zelda dungeons. To each his own I suppose.

 

[Luigiv]

I thought snowpeak and the city in the sky were some of the best zelda dungeons. To each his own I suppose.

Snowpeak was ok, the Dessert dungeon was a little better but the rest were just rubbish (including city in the sky).

I mean how could you call the dungeons well designed when 90% small keys had to be used in the exact same room as you found them in? That's what iron bars are for!

 

[Poyunch]

I liked that Ocarina of Time demanded more of you when you're in the dungeons. Like how you had to line your arrow shot perfectly with a torch so you could shoot a froze switch while you're also on a rotating platform or how you have to goad an enemy to attack you so that it would walk over a switch that needed to be pressed so that you could walk through a door.

I can't remember any recent 3D Zelda doing that.

 

[leroidys]

Just have to chime in and echo what has been said. Twilight Princess had its faults, but the dungeons were the best in the series. I honestly think that (almost) every dungeon in the game is better than any Zelda dungeon that occured before.

 

[TheCongressman1]

Thing is the triforce is on the hylian shield. Other than that we haven't seen the triforce anywhere in the footage we have. Maybe in the final version the Triforce will be taken off the hylian shield.

Yeah... Either you get that shield after the Triforce is formed, they're going to take it off, or they overlooked a very obvious flaw. I very much doubt they wouldn't catch this.

 

[disco]

OT: Twilight Princess music was awesome. This reminds me of Jet Set Radio Future so much (3:32).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nBsNZxldIU&feature

 

[Izayoi]

MIDI doesn't "sound" like anything at all, because it isn't sound. But yes, there are small nuances in live recordings that even the best software instruments can't recreate. They can come pretty damn close, though.

Excuse me for being a little late, but wat.

 

[Nlroh]

I don't really get all that praise for TP dungeons. I know all of them were a little bit more polished than OoT or WW. The problem is that every one just gave me this deja vu feeling... and the fact that they were ridiculously easy didn't help.

I'm expecting much better dungeons from SS. I'm hyped for this game and now that I'm thinking about it: We've heard about the sword battles being more difficult but what about the dungeons themselves?

 

[mr_nothin]

Excuse me for being a little late, but wat.

Midi is just a trigger to tell a synthesizer to play a note.
Example of midi in a zelda game:
When Link's sword hits enemy -> Play Note C (Based on what time the hit occured, the note may be of different pitch)

Midi is just an interface, it's not an actual instrument. Only thing that holds Midi back from sounding good in Zelda games is the hardware and storage limitations. The hardware that Zelda games have been on are simply not powerful enough to articulate the quality of "live orchestra". The live recordings in zelda dont require much processing at all because it's just playing back a mp3/wav/etc file and not synthesizing or creating sound from scratch. "Midi" can, and does, sound amazing when used right.

Good synthesizers have dozens of uncompressed samples to choose from for any given note. C5 might have 50 different recordings at different velocities just so they dont have to pitch shift.....to get as close as possible to the original sound. Then it goes on to process other effects such as reverb/etc on the fly. Sample libraries are huge and a few VSTs (virtual instruments that I have) have 200gb+ sample libraries.

 

[Dr.Hadji]

I mean how could you call the dungeons well designed when 90% small keys had to be used in the exact same room as you found them in? That's what iron bars are for!

Because a lot of the "locks" in TP didn't have traditional "keys" to unlock them. Which is one of the great things about TPs dungeons. Weighted plates measured by moving statues, iron balls that need to be roll,flung, and caught, spirit balls guarded by Wall Masters, monkeys strung together to make swinging across caverns possible, and of classics like water levies.

 

[Luigiv]

Excuse me for being a little late, but wat.

He is correct, Musical Instrument Digital Interface isn't a sound format in and of itself.

 

[D-Pad]

Midi is just a trigger to tell a synthesizer to play a note.
Example of midi in a zelda game:
When Link's sword hits enemy -> Play Note C (Based on what time the hit occured, the note may be of different pitch)

Midi is just an interface, it's not an actual instrument. Only thing that holds Midi back from sounding good in Zelda games is the hardware and storage limitations. The hardware that Zelda games have been on are simply not powerful enough to articulate the quality of "live orchestra". The live recordings in zelda dont require much processing at all because it's just playing back a mp3/wav/etc file and not synthesizing or creating sound from scratch. "Midi" can, and does, sound amazing when used right.

Yep. It's amazing how many people use the word "midi" when describing "low quality" sound. Midi's not at fault here, people, and I can't stand the hate it gets.

 

[Izayoi]

Midi is just a trigger to tell a synthesizer to play a note.
Example of midi in a zelda game:
When Link's sword hits enemy -> Play Note C (Based on what time the hit occured, the note may be of different pitch)

Midi is just an interface, it's not an actual instrument. Only thing that holds Midi back from sounding good in Zelda games is the hardware and storage limitations. The hardware that Zelda games have been on are simply not powerful enough to articulate the quality of "live orchestra". The live recordings in zelda dont require much processing at all because it's just playing back a mp3/wav/etc file and not synthesizing or creating sound from scratch. "Midi" can, and does, sound amazing when used right.

Good synthesizers have dozens of uncompressed samples to choose from for any given note. C5 might have 50 different recordings at different velocities just so they dont have to pitch shift.....to get as close as possible to the original sound. Then it goes on to process other effects such as reverb/etc on the fly. Sample libraries are huge and a few VSTs (virtual instruments that I have) have 200gb+ sample libraries.

He is correct, Musical Instrument Digital Interface isn't a sound format in and of itself.

Learn something new everyday, I guess, but I feel like hairs are being split here. :<

Yep. It's amazing how many people use the word "midi" when describing "low quality" sound. Midi's not at fault here, people, and I can't stand the hate it gets.

That's not what I was describing it as at all, I just meant that I can tell the difference between something that's live and something that's been synthesized.

 

[mr_nothin]

Learn something new everyday, I guess, but I feel like hairs are being split here. :<

How so? When people scream out "we hate midi, please dont use midi because midi sounds like shit. use live orchestral recordings!" and it's not the fault of Midi, then the difference should be explained because its not the fault of Midi. It's just a little annoying.

I can see what you're saying though, because the Wii still isnt powerful enough to sound too well when using Midi so the sound quality is going to suck compared to what live recorded orchestra is going to sound like.

That's not what I was describing it as at all, I just meant that I can tell the difference between something that's live and something that's been synthesized.

Well then you are saying what he said in a way. The samples that these "synthesizers" we speak of, are actually recorded live. Recorded hundreds of thousands of times.

Check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMivXY1gTFA

That is all Midi, if no one told you that it was midi and said it was a live recording...would you have believed it?

Imagine being able to play a Zelda game with just about the same quality as the live recorded stuff...but with the dynamics that midi brings. The music can dynamically change depending on what enemy shows up, when you hit him, when he dies. It can change tone when the sun starts to set or rise. There's tons of possibilities.

 

[Izayoi]

How so? When people scream out "we hate midi, please dont use midi because midi sounds like shit. use live orchestral recordings!" and it's not the fault of Midi, then the difference should be explained because its not the fault of Midi. It's just a little annoying.

I can see what you're saying though, because the Wii still isnt powerful enough to sound too well when using Midi so the sound quality is going to suck compared to what live recorded orchestra is going to sound like.

I wasn't dissing on MIDI at all, though. I was just saying that I can usually tell the difference between MIDI and live orchestra. That's not a diss, and I'm sorry if it was taken that way. Some of my favorite videogame music of all time is MIDI stuff.

That is all Midi, if no one told you that it was midi and said it was a live recording...would you have believed it?

No. As soon as the strings start you can tell it's not live. I used to play the violin, so that might have something to do with it. I dunno, I've just always been able to tell the difference. There's something distinctly... artificial about it. I can't quite place what it is, but it always seemed very obvious to me.

 

[mr_nothin]

I wasn't dissing on MIDI at all, though. I was just saying that I can usually tell the difference between MIDI and live orchestra. That's not a diss, and I'm sorry if it was taken that way. Some of my favorite videogame music of all time is MIDI stuff.


No. As soon as the strings start you can tell it's not live. I used to play the violin, so that might have something to do with it. Like I've said, MIDI doesn't make it bad or anything, it just makes it MIDI.

Fair enough,
EastWest isnt the BEST example anyways. Especially since it's years old and I just pulled any old thing off of youtube. I can find something that sounds like a real violin but that'll be too much. Real instrument players will almost always be able to tell all the subtle differences in details/nuances of real instruments and "synthesized" (even though its not really sythesized) instruments.

I'll leave it at this.

 

[Bruiserk]

Thing is the triforce is on the hylian shield. Other than that we haven't seen the triforce anywhere in the footage we have. Maybe in the final version the Triforce will be taken off the hylian shield.

I never noticed that, thanks for pointing it out. There is a lot of hype around this Zelda, I can't wait to play a game set BEFORE OOT. Gonna be fucking awesome to experience the story.

 

[Nostalgic Nightmare]

...I also have a soft spot for the Faron Woods theme.

I agree, this was the best music in that game.
TP was really a great game, I can't understand the hate. Alas, everyone has their own opinions.
What blows my mind is that until this E3 SS was probably the most lackluster Zelda showing to date. Blame it on the botched stage setup or the previous trailers, I was a bit worried, but
I have faith Nintendo will ensure the series will have that magic on the home consoles.

 

[farnham]

As a long time Zelda fan, I disagree. I thought TP's dungeons were mediocre at best. They were oddly laid out, linear and overly combat focused. I simply do not understand people who liked TP's dungeon design.

TPs dungeon are by far the best zelda dungeons

they are not as convoluted and tidious as the MM dungeons,
usually have perfect length,
they have a theme built around the dungeon that makes them very unique,
and they have great if not the best bosses in the end

 

[AbsoluteZero]

That's it, playing through Twilight Princess again beginning tonight.

Think I'll finally use that hardcover guide I bought so long ago.

 

[Bruiserk]

...I also have a soft spot for the Faron Woods theme.

What about dat Hidden Village?

 

[farnham]

What about dat Hidden Village?

or sacred grove

 

[Bruiserk]

or sacred grove

OH GOD YES. I was so happy to hear Saria's Song when I played this game.

 

[Nostalgic Nightmare]

All good choices,
But if I have to be honest, the song "Dungeon" is the best, most atmospheric piece of music in any Zelda game.

Wind Waker - Dungeon

 

[Bruiserk]

All good choices,
But if I have to be honest, the song "Dungeon" is the best, most atmospheric piece of music in any Zelda game.

Wind Waker - Dungeon

I mean, as a stand alone piece of music I would have to disagree. In context it's great, but I prefer the songs that I can listen to outside of the game.

 

[Kard8p3]

One cool thing Yokota confirmed in the newest Iwata Asks is that he went back to past Zelda games, picked some of his favorite tunes, and put orchestrated versions of said tunes in Skyward Sword.

 

[ciD_Vain]

I think he Legend of Zelda series in general has outstanding music. When I hear music from Zelda, I instantly get a smile on my face, something that's hard to say for a lot of other game soundtracks I've heard. This is mostly due to my nostalgia with Zelda music as a kid so I'm kind of biased.

 

[Big One]

All good choices,
But if I have to be honest, the song "Dungeon" is the best, most atmospheric piece of music in any Zelda game.

Wind Waker - Dungeon

Eh naw, there are a bunch of tracks in Majora's Mask that beat this quite easily.

Last End sounds like something you'd hear from Twin Peaks.

 

[-PXG-]

Two cents:

Twilight Princess...Yuck...It was a step backwards. Nintendo went a from a brilliantly vibrant and unique style of Wind Waker, to the dull, drab "dark/gritty" next-gen, pseudo realism bullshit that was used for TP. I hated how the game looked. The art direction was all over the place and just terrible. The concept art and paintings were gorgeous, but everything that was in-game was just mind numbingly bad.

Link looked dumb and confused all the time. I liked the chain mail and details on his tunic, but I felt at times it was just too much and overly designed. I respect the attempt to give the Gorons more depth with their body paint and industrialized society. But rock nipples? Come on. The Zora's design was just boring. The change to make them look more human just seemed odd. Plus, everything had a brown or rust filter over it.

As for the game play, Hyrule Field was too big and there wasn't much to explore. Dungeons were forgettable in both visual design and how you went about exploring them. The plot was flat. I didn't care about anything or anyone. Ocarina was purely epic. Majora's Mask was twisted and bizarre. Wind Waker was both charming and had expressive characters. But Twilight Princess? Overall, the game wasn't interesting and just dragged on way too long. It was an odd attempt to capture what made OoT great, but focused too heavily on undoing the progress that was made with Wind Waker.

I thought Minda and Ganondorf played their roles accordingly and looked great. But other than that, personally, I see no reason in ever revisiting this game. It's horrendously overrated and vastly inferior to other games in the franchise.

Basically, as long as Skyward Sword isn't like TP, I will be happy. Majora's Mask and Wind Waker took the series in new, yet fitting, directions. Twilight Princess was a poorly managed, poorly designed rehash and a lackluster attempt to capture past greatness.

 

[Kard8p3]

Twilight Princess...Yuck...It was such a step backwards. Nintendo went a from a brilliantly vibrant and unique style of Wind Waker, to the dull, drab "dark/gritty" next-gen, pseudo realism bullshit that was used for TP. I hated how the game looked. The art direction was all over the place and just terrible. The concept art and paintings were gorgeous, but everything that was in-game was just mind numbingly bad.

Link looked dumb and confused all the time. His liked the chain mail and details on his tunic, but I felt at times it was just too much and overly designed. I liked how they made an attempt to give the Gorons more depth with their body paint and industrialized society. But rock nipples? Come on. The Zora's design was just boring. The change to make them look more human just seemed odd. Plus, everything had a brown or rust filter over it.

As for the game play, Hyrule Field was too big and there wasn't much to explore. Dungeons were forgettable in both visual design and how you went about exploring them. The plot was flat. I didn't care about anything or anyone. Ocarina was purely epic. Majora's Mask was twisted and bizarre. Wind Waker was both charming and had expressive characters. But Twilight Princess? Overall, the game wasn't interesting and just dragged on way too long. It was an odd attempt to capture what made OoT great, but focused to heavily undoing what was done with Wind Waker.

I thought Minda and Ganondorf played their roles accordingly and looked great. But other than that, personally, I see no reason in ever revisiting this game. It's horrendously overrated and vastly inferior to other games in the franchise.

I have to disagree but to each his own. For me it was one of the most enjoyable Zelda experiences.

 

[Code_Link]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzYBrUl926c

 

[Jaded Alyx]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzYBrUl926c

Um...anyway, thread needs more Temple of Time music.

 

[WillyFive]

Twilight Princess...Yuck...It was such a step backwards. Nintendo went a from a brilliantly vibrant and unique style of Wind Waker, to the dull, drab "dark/gritty" next-gen, pseudo realism bullshit that was used for TP.

That's not a step backwards. It's a step sideways. You can't compare two different things with two different aims.

I hated how the game looked.

Oh ok, that explains it.

As for the game play, Hyrule Field was too big and there wasn't much to explore. Dungeons were forgettable in both visual design and how you went about exploring them. The plot was flat. I didn't care about anything or anyone. Ocarina was purely epic. Majora's Mask was twisted and bizarre. Wind Waker was both charming and had expressive characters. But Twilight Princess? Overall, the game wasn't interesting and just dragged on way too long. It was an odd attempt to capture what made OoT great, but focused to heavily undoing what was done with Wind Waker.

I disagree with you there. I would argue the dungeons on Twilight Princess are the best in the series. Especially because of how great they looked and their visual design and atmosphere.

Twilight Princess was a darker version of Ocarina of Time. They were both epic, except Ocarina did it with time travel and Twilight Princess did it with scope. Same for Hyrule Field, it was very well created and was a wonderful sight to explore, even if it was at the expense of content. Same thing with Ocarina actually.

And I don't understand what you meant by "doing what was done with Wind Waker". Like what?

 

[ciD_Vain]

Two cents:

Twilight Princess...Yuck...It was such a step backwards. Nintendo went a from a brilliantly vibrant and unique style of Wind Waker, to the dull, drab "dark/gritty" next-gen, pseudo realism bullshit that was used for TP. I hated how the game looked. The art direction was all over the place and just terrible. The concept art and paintings were gorgeous, but everything that was in-game was just mind numbingly bad.

Link looked dumb and confused all the time. I liked the chain mail and details on his tunic, but I felt at times it was just too much and overly designed. I respect the attempt to give the Gorons more depth with their body paint and industrialized society. But rock nipples? Come on. The Zora's design was just boring. The change to make them look more human just seemed odd. Plus, everything had a brown or rust filter over it.

As for the game play, Hyrule Field was too big and there wasn't much to explore. Dungeons were forgettable in both visual design and how you went about exploring them. The plot was flat. I didn't care about anything or anyone. Ocarina was purely epic. Majora's Mask was twisted and bizarre. Wind Waker was both charming and had expressive characters. But Twilight Princess? Overall, the game wasn't interesting and just dragged on way too long. It was an odd attempt to capture what made OoT great, but focused too heavily on undoing the progress that was made with Wind Waker.

I thought Minda and Ganondorf played their roles accordingly and looked great. But other than that, personally, I see no reason in ever revisiting this game. It's horrendously overrated and vastly inferior to other games in the franchise.

Basically, as long as Skyward Sword isn't like TP, I will be happy. Majora's Mask and Wind Waker took the series in new, yet fitting, directions. Twilight Princess was a poorly managed, poorly designed rehash and lackluster attempt to capture past greatness.

The way you describe it, it seems you think this game is not only a horrible Zelda game, but a horrible game in general. I thought some of the best dungeons came from Twilight Princess, but in the end i guess it's all up to preference.

 

[MYE]

I thought Minda and Ganondorf played their roles accordingly and looked great.

LOL

 

[farnham]

Two cents:

Twilight Princess...Yuck...It was a step backwards. Nintendo went a from a brilliantly vibrant and unique style of Wind Waker, to the dull, drab "dark/gritty" next-gen, pseudo realism bullshit that was used for TP. I hated how the game looked. The art direction was all over the place and just terrible. The concept art and paintings were gorgeous, but everything that was in-game was just mind numbingly bad.

Link looked dumb and confused all the time. I liked the chain mail and details on his tunic, but I felt at times it was just too much and overly designed. I respect the attempt to give the Gorons more depth with their body paint and industrialized society. But rock nipples? Come on. The Zora's design was just boring. The change to make them look more human just seemed odd. Plus, everything had a brown or rust filter over it.

As for the game play, Hyrule Field was too big and there wasn't much to explore. Dungeons were forgettable in both visual design and how you went about exploring them. The plot was flat. I didn't care about anything or anyone. Ocarina was purely epic. Majora's Mask was twisted and bizarre. Wind Waker was both charming and had expressive characters. But Twilight Princess? Overall, the game wasn't interesting and just dragged on way too long. It was an odd attempt to capture what made OoT great, but focused too heavily on undoing the progress that was made with Wind Waker.

I thought Minda and Ganondorf played their roles accordingly and looked great. But other than that, personally, I see no reason in ever revisiting this game. It's horrendously overrated and vastly inferior to other games in the franchise.

Basically, as long as Skyward Sword isn't like TP, I will be happy. Majora's Mask and Wind Waker took the series in new, yet fitting, directions. Twilight Princess was a poorly managed, poorly designed rehash and a lackluster attempt to capture past greatness.

Lets say it like this

windwaker was prettier

but TP was the better game overall due to better dungeon design, purely more content and more unique characters

I thought Minda and Ganondorf played their roles accordingly and looked great.

this one i agree

best character the zelda series ever introduced

 

[Jaded Alyx]

best character the zelda series ever introduced

No, that would be Midna.

 

[Nostalgic Nightmare]

Two cents:

Twilight Princess...Yuck...It was such a step backwards. Nintendo went a from a brilliantly vibrant and unique style of Wind Waker, to the dull, drab "dark/gritty" next-gen, pseudo realism bullshit that was used for TP. I hated how the game looked. The art direction was all over the place and just terrible. The concept art and paintings were gorgeous, but everything that was in-game was just mind numbingly bad.

Link looked dumb and confused all the time. I liked the chain mail and details on his tunic, but I felt at times it was just too much and overly designed. I respect the attempt to give the Gorons more depth with their body paint and industrialized society. But rock nipples? Come on. The Zora's design was just boring. The change to make them look more human just seemed odd. Plus, everything had a brown or rust filter over it.

As for the game play, Hyrule Field was too big and there wasn't much to explore. Dungeons were forgettable in both visual design and how you went about exploring them. The plot was flat. I didn't care about anything or anyone. Ocarina was purely epic. Majora's Mask was twisted and bizarre. Wind Waker was both charming and had expressive characters. But Twilight Princess? Overall, the game wasn't interesting and just dragged on way too long. It was an odd attempt to capture what made OoT great, but focused too heavily on undoing the progress that was made with Wind Waker.

I thought Minda and Ganondorf played their roles accordingly and looked great. But other than that, personally, I see no reason in ever revisiting this game. It's horrendously overrated and vastly inferior to other games in the franchise.

Basically, as long as Skyward Sword isn't like TP, I will be happy. Majora's Mask and Wind Waker took the series in new, yet fitting, directions. Twilight Princess was a poorly managed, poorly designed rehash and lackluster attempt to capture past greatness.

So for you any Zelda game that strays from its intended original concept is the better game.
As the power of consoles has grown, why wouldn't you want Zelda or any game for that matter to mature with it? Games looked like cartoons because that was the best they could offer at one point. I found the WW to have plenty of forgettable characters, and the dungeons were no where near as good as TP. Just because Link's shipmates had the contrived dumbed down stooge pirate attitudes, the nose bubbling mucus, doesn't equate charm to me. I do think the game was fantastic though, and it was brilliant for other reasons. Want to talk mind numbing, lets not forget the triforce hunt. The way I see it, if you want the Disney-esque Zelda, they have been doing it on the handhelds for years. There is no shame in wanting something more graphically intense, defined and gritty for a game about a person delving into dark dungeons alone.
It has nothing to do with Psudo-realism/dudebro either. It's about making the game that it always tried to convey from the manual art etc. The power is there to do that, and I agree there was plenty in TP that could have been improved, absolutely. I feel it was a stepping stone forward honestly, and however unpopular that view is so be it.

 

[-PXG-]

The way you describe it, it seems you think this game is not only a horrible Zelda game, but a horrible game in general. I thought some of the best dungeons came from Twilight Princess, but in the end i guess it's all up to preference.

Reverse that. It's a "good" game, but a mediocre Zelda game. At least to me.

TP was hardly dark. Compared to MM, it's very shallow. Link gets turned into a Wolf. Midna is an imp. Zant (and Zelda at the end) are Ganon's puppets. There was nothing deep (relative to the series that is) in that game, besides the hinted affection that Minda has towards Link at the end.

Majora's Mask was creepy and by far the darkest game in the entire franchise. The whole game was about the perpetual cycle of impending doom, , torment, suffering, dispair and hopelessness. Wind Waker was about a boy who was uninterested and reluctant to go on an adventure. His only motivation at first was to save his sister. Inspite of his overt jealously, I had sympathy for Ganon at the end of the game. Wind Waker shed a lot of new light on what seemed like a bloody thirsty killer. TP did nothing for me. It didn't take the series in a new direction.

It was half assed in the sense of trying to be more mature, but ended up being shallow, yet overwrought, by rehashing past mechanics with a horrendously unfocused and unappealing artistic style.

EDIT

I NEVER want to see a "realistic" or "mature" Zelda. I don't ever want it to be compared, at least visually, to Dragon Age, Elder Scrolls or the Witcher. Making it so would just dumb it down and blend it in with everything else. It would accomplish nothing besides, "Oh look, we took something that was once iconic and unique and made it homogeneous as fuck"

 

[Jaded Alyx]

unappealing artistic style.

...best in-game artstyle in a Zelda game yet. In my opinion of course.

 

[kunonabi]

For me TP was breath of fresh air. I was so let down by OoT that I skipped MM and Wind Waker. For me TP was a sign that the Zelda series could still be good and Skyward Sword is looking to truly fulfill that promise. Maybe if I had stuck with the series I would have felt burned out by it but it doesn't really matter now.

 

[-PXG-]

For me TP was breath of fresh air. I was so let down by OoT that I skipped MM and Wind Waker. For me TP was a sign that the Zelda series could still be good and Skyward Sword is looking to truly fulfill that promise. Maybe if I had stuck with the series I would have felt burned out by it but it doesn't really matter now.

When did you play OoT? Back in '98 or recently?

 

[decoyplatypus]

For me TP was breath of fresh air. I was so let down by OoT that I skipped MM and Wind Waker. For me TP was a sign that the Zelda series could still be good and Skyward Sword is looking to truly fulfill that promise. Maybe if I had stuck with the series I would have felt burned out by it but it doesn't really matter now.

I don't know how anyone could dislike OoT, let alone dislike it but consider TP a breath of fresh air. Half of TP is an attempt to capitalize on nostalgia for OoT. I mean, it's a good game, but nearly every single one of its virtues is present in the earlier game.

 

[Kard8p3]

I don't know how anyone could dislike OoT, let alone dislike it but consider TP a breath of fresh air. Half of TP is an attempt to capitalize on nostalgia for OoT. I mean, it's a good game, but nearly every single one of its virtues is present in the earlier game.

Yeah and that was the point. At that time everyone was asking for that out of the next Zelda.

 

[farnham]

I don't know how anyone could dislike OoT, let alone dislike it but consider TP a breath of fresh air. Half of TP is an attempt to capitalize on nostalgia for OoT. I mean, it's a good game, but nearly every single one of its virtues is present in the earlier game.

Oots controls are way clunkier then TPs controls

They refined the controls a lot in windwaker and TP perfected the control scheme imo.