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Let Us Skip Boss Fights
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DarkConfidant
Member
But even if that's true, why not let people play whatever parts of the game they want?
A lot of people enjoy the challenge of a game, but would rather not keep replaying a single part. Maybe they feel differently about how they get "fulfillment" from the game.
Also, plenty of games are not focused on challenge anyway, except for maybe their boss portions.
Some are focused on immersion, others storytelling, and some are just about playing around with a mechanic like a toy.
I don't see harm in giving the people who might want that option the freedom to do so. Most people just stop playing the games anyway, so it's not like it's going to take some experience away from them. A lot, at this point, would rather just go to YouTube and watch the rest. It would only make the game better if it'd keep more people playing.
Wowfunhappy
Member
I think all games should come with some kind of "unlock everything" button combination a la the Konami code (but not literally the Konami code). Anyone who is really stuck can look up the game's secret code on the internet.
What I don't want is for this type of thing to be part of the game's built in menu. It's a bit too tempting and I don't want to see the option.
What I don't want is for this type of thing to be part of the game's built in menu. It's a bit too tempting and I don't want to see the option.
Gai Murakumo
Member
Should have used Tarkus just for the epicness.
I mean, at that point, why not just watch a long play?
Lord British
Member
If beating your shitty, boring-to-fight damage sponge boss is gating my progress and limiting my enjoyment of the game, I see no reason I shouldn't be able to skip. I paid my money, let me at level five. Whatever.
astroturfing
Member
why not..? they are not some holy untouchable works of art, they are just videogames. you SHOULD be able to have fun with them any way you like, like choosing difficulty, choosing from any of the weapons and equipment freely etc.. and yes skipping bosses or any enemies should always be an option for example from a pause menu.
yes i am kidding.
No one is arguing that devs should not be able to decide what kind of game they want to make. This is about persuasion, not coercion.
Suggesting a "skip boss fight" option is far from saying that every game should appeal to every player. It is saying that games should take additional, straightforward steps to make their existing content accessible and enjoyable to a wider audience.
Because people might want to play the other parts.
Linear games that you come to for the story (ie Uncharted) probably should provide a Story mode that lets you cake walk through the game one-shotting everything, and having puzzles spelled out for you.
In games that aren't linear, or where the challenge is the game - I think it's a bit much to expect.
In games that aren't linear, or where the challenge is the game - I think it's a bit much to expect.
Glass Shark
Banned
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Dusk Golem
A 21st Century Rockefeller
Hey everyone, this is Dusk Golem aka AestheticGamer. I have posted on NeoGAF since 2011, and have decided to resign. I have enjoyed posting about horror games here for years, but I no longer wish to support the site and will be leaving for good. I will still be around the internet, I go by AestheticGamer on YouTube, I make games on Steam as Yai Gameworks, and I plan to go by Dusk Golem on other forums. I'll be joining an off-set of the GAF community leaving to try other ventures like ResetEra (Official Twitter for that here: https://twitter.com/reseteraforum ). I hope some of you who read this may consider it, and I plan to try to expose more people to horror games in the years to come. Just not here.
I hope you all are having a good day, and know I always loved the community, and in the end it's the community I'm going to stick with, not the site itself. If you want to follow me, my official Twitter is here: https://twitter.com/AestheticGamer1
I hope you all are having a good day, and know I always loved the community, and in the end it's the community I'm going to stick with, not the site itself. If you want to follow me, my official Twitter is here: https://twitter.com/AestheticGamer1
I guess I just don't see this as some slippery slope where more options would seriously affect how games are designed.
In the latter, you are skipping some part of the content to see more of the content. I could totally see some people wanting to skip an annoying level that they've banged their head against for some time in Mario.
Ordinaryundone
Member
I find the concept that "I am bad at something, ergo it should be removed/skippable" to be chafing, mostly because it completely ignores any sort of artistic or design intent behind the difficulty and, basically, tries to level video games with every other medium when they should be trying to be their own thing and play to their own strengths, like player interaction and the ability to make people experience things like hardship or struggle via playing the game. Games aren't movies or books, and by saying "well, you can skip things in movies and books" both cheapens all mediums involved and ignores the fact that you aren't SUPPOSED to skip parts of a movie or book (unless it's some sort of weird avant-garde work).
I sympathize with anyone who has an actual disability that keeps them from fully enjoying something, just like how I feel for a blind person who can't see a movie or a deaf person who can't hear a song. But that is just the nature of the medium, they aren't designed to be all-inclusive because the foundations of their design aren't all-inclusive to begin with. That said, any steps that can be taken to help these people are appreciated in the long run.
I sympathize with anyone who has an actual disability that keeps them from fully enjoying something, just like how I feel for a blind person who can't see a movie or a deaf person who can't hear a song. But that is just the nature of the medium, they aren't designed to be all-inclusive because the foundations of their design aren't all-inclusive to begin with. That said, any steps that can be taken to help these people are appreciated in the long run.
benicillin
Banned
Agree. I know people who enjoy playing games a lot but struggle on bosses and don't have the desire to proceed because it's not fun for them anymore, but if I helped them get past the boss they'd be happy to keep playing because it's enjoyable.
Not everyone has the desire to bash their head against something they're having a hard time with, and many may not have the mechanical skill to continue.
More options is better for everyone.
Not everyone has the desire to bash their head against something they're having a hard time with, and many may not have the mechanical skill to continue.
More options is better for everyone.
They sort of do?
But in order to skip boss fights or shortcut the difficulty of them you need to learn maps, mechanics, and enemy patterns in order to make it work. So skipping boss fights in a Souls game is still effectively rewarding you by learning how the game works.
IdreamofHIME
Member
What games even have traditional boss fights nowadays?
Pretty much just niche games catered to an audience that wants that kind experience. Pretty selfish to demand they change their style to suit your needs, when you're not the audience they even want.
Pretty much just niche games catered to an audience that wants that kind experience. Pretty selfish to demand they change their style to suit your needs, when you're not the audience they even want.
Avallon
Member
The boss is there to gate your progress. That's the reason you shouldn't be able to skip.
What does paying money have to do with anything? Are you entitled to a game's source code because you "paid money?"
Destiny? Mario games?
Lord British
Member
Just don't use the option. "Let us skip boss fights", not "remove all boss fights".
Who cares? Let me do anything I want. Ship every game with a fully-unlocked level select and toggle for God Mode. Why not? It's optional. I'd very rarely use it.
Dusk Golem
A 21st Century Rockefeller
Hey everyone, this is Dusk Golem aka AestheticGamer. I have posted on NeoGAF since 2011, and have decided to resign. I have enjoyed posting about horror games here for years, but I no longer wish to support the site and will be leaving for good. I will still be around the internet, I go by AestheticGamer on YouTube, I make games on Steam as Yai Gameworks, and I plan to go by Dusk Golem on other forums. I'll be joining an off-set of the GAF community leaving to try other ventures like ResetEra (Official Twitter for that here: https://twitter.com/reseteraforum ). I hope some of you who read this may consider it, and I plan to try to expose more people to horror games in the years to come. Just not here.
I hope you all are having a good day, and know I always loved the community, and in the end it's the community I'm going to stick with, not the site itself. If you want to follow me, my official Twitter is here: https://twitter.com/AestheticGamer1
I hope you all are having a good day, and know I always loved the community, and in the end it's the community I'm going to stick with, not the site itself. If you want to follow me, my official Twitter is here: https://twitter.com/AestheticGamer1
The current trend AAA games typically put less emphasis on boss fights and more emphasis on giving closure to stories and enemy waves by the end anyway. The idea of the skill check boss is usually, you guessed it, in games where you're meant to perfect your skills. And the audiences that play those respective types of games don't always interact with one another.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Terrible article, and the last thing we want is for games to get even easier than they are. This is the equivalent of participation awards for sports.
You've convinced me mate, now I'm all for it!
Glass Shark
Banned
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Like, I understand the feeling of being left out of the discussion because you couldn't get past the Bee level in cuphead or you got stuck on Smough and Orenstein in Dark Souls. The feeling of, "well this is where my journey ends" can be pretty tough, especially if you want to keep experience what's beyond those stages and want to discuss them with your peers.
But there really is a point where for certain games, this means stopping playing and just watching. For a more narratively focused game, I can understand that. Something like the Naughty Dog games or even a Gears of War, a skip could be fine if you're engaged in what little story these games actually care to have. But if you're skipping engagements, chances are the next engagement you get to is going to be just as hard, if not harder, followed by an even harder engagement, and so on, and so on, and so on.
I had a gigantic amount of frustration with the 3.5 miniboss in Mario Vs. Rabbids and even on the optional easy mode, I wasn't understanding what I was doing wrong where I just kept wiping. Eventually, I figured it out on my 15th or so attempt and beat it with allt he fuck yous in toe, but everything after that point was just as hard, if not harder. I just figured out how to deal with it. If I had skipped that boss, I would have still been getting lit up by the mechanics the game set forth.
So yeah I get it, letting you just skip past the frustrating part seems nice, and makes sense for a lot of games, but for most games that aren't emulating movies or TV shows in structure and tone, the moment where you skip is usually the moment you stop playing and just watching the major beats until the credits roll. That's not what games are supposed to be about.
Oh....I'd say you can be bad at watching movies or TV shows.
I'd think for most games, not all, but most, if you're at the point where you just want to let the game play itself through a particular sequence, there's not going to be much beyond that particular sequence that you're going to want to engage with.
This is ultimately the most confusing part of the article.
Boss battles by and large don't exist anymore. I mean sure you have your occasional Nioh or Souls game, but that and few others are pretty much it on the AAA scene.
Interestingly, the Bioware writer who kept being mentioned I think pushed for having more alternative solutions to solve problems outside of combat and boss fights - the "skipping" part meaning more having more than one solution to solving something.
I love games like Deus Ex, Dishonored and Prey because they don't pigeon-hole you into straight combat encounters (Human Revolution did in its initial release, and it's probably one of the most derided elements of the game) - if you want to go at things more methodically, or without getting your hands dirty, it's entirely possible to do so.
I always think combat is the laziest solution to problem-solving in games; and the worst boss-fights only exemplify this by having enemies with enormous or invisible health bars you chip away over hours while dancing around one-hit kills. More options for engagement the better I say.
A game is a challenge you solve, it's not a passive narrative experience you just sit and watch.
Imagine buying a puzzle and having it come solved out of the box, you just look at it and put it away. Or let's play a game of Monopoly, but hey, you start owning all the territories on the board. Congratulations!
Stop trying to compare games to books, movies and TV. Games are not that.
Imagine buying a puzzle and having it come solved out of the box, you just look at it and put it away. Or let's play a game of Monopoly, but hey, you start owning all the territories on the board. Congratulations!
Stop trying to compare games to books, movies and TV. Games are not that.
GiantBreadbug
Member
Then improve the way you play the video game. Its rather inherent to the medium. Like literacy is to reading a book.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
It's hard to think of a recent game with great writing or exploration with hard boss fights that don't have an emotional connection to the narrative.
I mean, there's Thunderblight Ganon but you can play like 99.5% else of the game.
I mean, there's Thunderblight Ganon but you can play like 99.5% else of the game.
Holding games up to the same standards as movies or music is a weaselly and fallacious argument and you know it. There are games are based around skill and there are some that are not. There doesn't need to be a universal rule.
Well, i mean a movie might highlight important things in a scene - such as red being used in the Sixth Sense to indicate the presence of a ghost.
Wouldn't the movie be harder to understand if you can't see that red ?
starchild excalibur
Member
You're telling people how engaged they may or may not be if given the option to skip a boss fight? Come on, now.
The entire thesis of the RPS article in the OP is that it's about choice. For some of those people that legitimately reach an end point via hitting a boss that's too hard for them to defeat, I'd say an experience like that is way more likely to keep them unengaged by virtue of being able to progress.
Gamers have this notion that there's one right way to play games unless the "wrong" way acts as a signal that you're even more hardcore and skillful.
You having the option to skip bosses in Souls games? That's the wrong way.
Playing Souls games with a Guitar Hero guitar while blindfolded with one hand? Sure, that's the right way.
DarkConfidant
Member
Because you still want to play a majority of the game's content.
Other people are in the theater with you. You can skip any part of the movie at home, probably.
Folks just don't seem to understand this.
AgentLampshade
Member
I'll often load up a game FOR the boss fights. If the fights aren't interesting, or too difficult (or too easy) then it's a design fail and developers should use it as a learning experience. Design better bosses or decide whether your game even needs them, but don't neuter them. Lazy solution.
Glass Shark
Banned
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OrbitalBeard
Member
What makes games different is that they're not a passive medium like movies, shows, or books.
If a developer wants to make certain aspects of their game optional, great. But they should never feel forced to do so.
Play more Japanese games? Doesn't seem that different to me. Maybe it is just the types of games I gravitate to.
As for the topic, I'd love for cheat codes to make a comeback. It would be interesting to see how they would be distributed though.
Native skip options for boss battles conversely don't seem like the right answer to me.
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