Neko Mimi Mode
Member
Yep, you and everyone here who hasn't, needs to play XII IZJS now.
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Lightning Returns: FFXIII screenshots and extended Jump Festa trailer
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Yep, you and everyone here who hasn't, needs to play XII IZJS now.
This probably will be the case for every FF title to come. Spending 5 years on just one world/game is a terrible waste of resources.
Perfo
Thirteen flew over the cuckoo's nest
Exactly. From next-gen onward Final Fantasy will be made of one main title and two sequels following it. There's no other way, not if it wants to stay relevant in the AAA market of today and tomorrow.
A competent team made XII. They have tons of towns in that game too and they look fine in HD if you emulate the game
Also Mistwalker.
Mistwalker doesn't develop anything. They contract out all of their games. They just do art, story, music and lay out how they want the game to play. Feelplus made Lost Odyssey, the makers of Mindjack.
And The Last Remnant already had several HD towns near the beginning of this gen, and they were all pretty impressive and unique.
You guys just hold on to one comment, from one guy, and blow it way out of proportion. XIII-2 also had towns.
Hell, XIII also had towns.
Not to mention FFXIV had gigantic, gorgeous HD towns and they rebuilt them all again for ARR.
All we've seen of Lightning Returns is a huge town!
Are you guys going to still hold on to this ridiculous idea that they don't make HD towns, or can you trust your eyes and see the evidence right in front of you?
Let it go, geez ...
Exentryk
Member
Yeah. I'm afraid that that would be the case going forward. Versus 2 anyone?
Bullshit. The only reason why we are getting drowned by FFXIII sequels is the FFXIV situation. Otherwise we'd have FFXV instead of LR now and there'd be no FFXIII-2. You act like FF games always have huge time in between each title but that's simply not true. The only one that took forever was XIII and even to that we got a follow up pretty fast (XIV but that was, as we all know, completely unsatisfactory).
It's also not like Toriyama isn't pretty much creating a new world with every sequel to FFXIII. Look at the Cocoon and Pulse in XIII and how they changed in XIII-2 and now we have a completely new world with LR.
Damn! They got rid of the damage limit in IZJS?
That would so much fun doing insane amounts of damage.
Is IZJS only for Japan?
IZJS is fully patched in english for a while now... go play it !
We'd probably have FFXV, and Lightning Returns. Remember Toriyama did FFX-2. Toriyama's team isn't holding back XV in any way, and they wouldn't be making it anyway. You're missing the fact that literally every major studio out there is doing the same thing because HD development costs too much.
Mass Effect 1-3 (4th on the way)
Dragon Age 1-2 (3rd on the way)
Gears of War 1-3 (4th on the way)
Uncharted 1-3
Tales of Xillia 1-2
Elder Scrolls IV-V + Fallout 3-New Vegas
Assassin's Creed I, II, II-2, II-3, III
and on and on and on. Tons of trilogies, sequels, reused assets everywhere. They won't make something as cost intensive as FFXIII, or even more cost intensive if it's massively open world, and not reuse any of it. That time is over.
I too think we'll see pretty much all main line titles get direct sequels now.
Exentryk
Member
Great. Thanks.
FFXI - 2002
FFXII - 2006
FFXIII - 2009
Even FFXII had it's world exploited in other games with the Ivalice Alliance thing.
Delusibeta
Banned
...
I've no idea why you decided to use XCOM as an example. All XCOM proves is that there's still a market for a Tactics-style game (on PC at least, I dunno how well it did on consoles), which is pretty irrelevant when discussing turn-based JRPG battles seen in the likes of the Persona games or classic FFs.
Those other franchise mean nothing as that was the trend in the previous generation as well (well apart from Xillia, but I imagine that was just Namco trying to capitalise on the huge sales of Xillia).
Toriyama most certainly wouldn't be working on LR if there was an FF XV as most of his team would be working on it. Don't just assume that the same people on Toriyama's team will always stick around. People at Square move around quite a bit.
Ok I'l grant you the gap between XI and XII but it still doesn't change what I was saying at all. Don't forget square went through a merger and restructuring in that period and lost the 'father of FF', so XII was always going to take longer.
There's no problem in the competency of the team that prevented them from adding HD towns (probably some of the same people worked on XIII that had worked on XII). It was a time issue, not a talent one. Besides, FFXII had its own share of problems during development and its development took ages.A competent team made XII. They have tons of towns in that game too and they look fine in HD if you emulate the game
FFXII's development was problematic. Matsuno & Co had way too ambitious plans for it (for one, the game was meant to have a completely seamless world, the story's scope was also huge, Matsuno didn't even have time to finish it before he left), plans that they couldn't possibly realize on PS2, plus they had to cut lots of things off the game. Its development started in 2001 and they spend a big part of the game's development time on the tools to develop the game. FFXII is one example of the roots of Square Enix's problems in game development, those just became even bigger as they entered the HD generation.Mario007 said:
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Man.. people really took that town shit seriously eh.
The vanilla version is still really good... In fact, I think playing it and then the IZJS version will make it even better.
Also, The Last Remnant had such gorgeous towns that I sort of want to replay the game now just to experience them again ):.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Vanilla 12 is absolutely fine, it's just if you want to differentiate your chars a bit you have to artificially limit where you go on their license board. Eventually though they're all the same. Even in zodiac I barely used the summons, the job boards (and the ultimate bow) were enough for me.
KingItachi
Member
FF has great music but pwn other games music nope.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Man, my face actually winced reading this.
Holding out for an HD Remake after FFX is eventually done
KingItachi
Member
Would love FFX-INT HD but that is a pipe dream.
There is a difference between the towns in Last Remnant and those in FFXIII and FFXIII-2.
In Last Remnant, towns had:
- Various shops
- Side-quests
- Units to recruit
- NPCs to talk to
In FFXIII/FFXIII-2, towns are literally just like every other area in the game, but have random NPCs standing around. XIII-2 has a few mini-games, and such but they don't feel like 'oh man, I've been traveling around in dungeons for the last 2 hours, good thing I just got to a town so I can re-stock on items and take on some new sidequests, upgrade equipment, etc'. It's just like, the difference between one area in FFXIII-2 and a town, is NPCs to talk to. It's a tacked on town, a band-aid trying to solve the problem with minimal effort.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
I liked it where towns had you able to go into every building at some point.
Not just something to look at.
Not just something to look at.
Meccanical
Member
Bingo.
I also liked it when towns where a part of a cohesive world and not some node on a choose your area list.
When you time traveled in Chrono Trigger you were not going to a town in "x era" but actually going to the WORLD as it was at that time.
HD Remaster of FFXII IZJS on PS3/360 and Vita would be greatest thing ever. It would be so easy to translate too, they didn't change too much. The game looks glorious on PS2 emulator.
Yes, this as well. It really makes a world feel disjoint by doing it like that. I get its a design choice, but that doesn't make it a good one.
I've been wanting to make that post for a while, but yours is much more convincing than mine would have been. THANKS!
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
With the exception of Rabanastre what do towns ever bring except a bunch of npcs that do nothing and a bunch of walls that you spam a button at to pick up some hidden potion? The towns in 13 (and I'm assuming 13-2) are there for the atmosphere/setting and just skip all the pointless filler that doesn't really add anything anyway. Being able to go into every building in Chrono Trigger isn't the reason it's a good game.. If they want to incorporate towns/buildings into the actual gameplay/dungeons, that's fine. But if they don't..they don't.. side quests from a list on a computer in the field or side quests from an npc in a town are the same thing.
Meccanical
Member
Exploration is filler huh.
I like how you have four screenshots of 'towns' in 13-2, and three of them are from the same place with different lighting.
Take it easy, nowadays that 'HD towns' line is used more in jest than in accusation.
You absolutely cannot say 'towns' in 13 are towns, however. They are not comparable to Rabanastre or Balfonheim or Bhujerba.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
What are you exploring lol. The towns have nothing in them. Rabanastre was beautifully done, I admit that. Towns in FF Tactics are perfect. List of some lore bits, list of some quests, shops. The meat of the town minus your "exploration".
Not to mention that these are meant to be.. RPGs.. atmosphere and immersion is important to at least some of us. If I accept a hunt from a job board and talk to the NPC who needs help, then go out and kill a monster, I find it much more satisfying than finding some weird stone structure thing on a field, reading a wall of text, then killing that monster. Maybe it's just me.
I get not wanting dungeons and towns is a design choice, once again, but it is still a poor one. It was also obviously made from time constraints and poor decisions.
Pointless filler to some, immersion to others.
This is why I find stuff like Persona 3 Portable to be bland and uninspired, menu-based towns are lame. They work in SRPGs, but they are immersion destroying in RPGs where you get to move around otherwise.
Meccanical
Member
Sure, whatever you say.
badcrumble
Member
This post makes me sad.
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
Another problem with the towns in XIII games is that they're just another battleground, whilst in previous FF's they act as a nice breakaway, a place to explore, find interesting things and learn new things about the world.
LR's town will have battles and this is disappointing to hear.
LR's town will have battles and this is disappointing to hear.
Meccanical
Member
This thread has made me realize that FFXIII is the JRPG for people who don't actually like JRPGs.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
And thus the illusion of a world in FF is lost.
I prefer the term weak-minded casuals with the lack of a coherent vision along the lines of Toriyama but that would be rude.
Also:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbGTAibbRMM
It's silly to pretend only the first town was well done.
It's getting to a point where it isn't about defending XIII, but attacking genuinely well created things in other game to justify them being done poorly in XIII.
Basically, if you hate Hiroyuki Ito's RPG design philosophy, you would love XIII:
Funny how everything Toriyama directed is basically everything I dislike in the FF franchise or from SE in general.
Meccanical
Member
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
I'm not defending FF13, I'm trying to break down the "no towns!!" argument that's been going on for years. Towns add atmosphere and world-building is what I'm assuming most of you are getting at with your /sad posts. 13 and 13-2 employ towns in that exact manner. What it seems like you guys are really getting at is "all the old games had npcs and buildings, these should too!" to which I can reply "fine, but what gameplay elements did those really add?".
And, as I'm guessing from Meccanical's post, that's where you concede the point.
And, as I'm guessing from Meccanical's post, that's where you concede the point.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
A game isn't about taking from other things, but the vision you are trying to illustrate yourself by what you as the developer can create. XIII series is clearly one dimensional in this regard, it isn't about making it detailed. It's entire mold is in itself a one-trick pony.
You can see it once and never care to see it again.
Of course this can be entirely subjective if you appreciate that which is undercooked and subpar.
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XIII series is not the only offender. Type 0 is guilty as well. And you must consider "NOT MANY" FF titles have been released in years. Or do you not remember our so called 3 year and 6 year gaps?
You can see it once and never care to see it again.
Of course this can be entirely subjective if you appreciate that which is undercooked and subpar.
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XIII series is not the only offender. Type 0 is guilty as well. And you must consider "NOT MANY" FF titles have been released in years. Or do you not remember our so called 3 year and 6 year gaps?
Not at all, but if you can't see how Midgar or Rabanastre differ from the towns in XIII and XIII-2, there is not point in continuing down this road.
Hiroyuki Ito is the hero Final Fantasy needs.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Midgar is a linear path/dungeon set in a city.. it's as linear as any town section in 13. I've conceded Rabanastre as the shining example of game towns. Midgar is definitely not it, even if you can hang out at and play some mini games for a bit.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Sakaguchi also seems to think so, however Square seems to have other plans.
And this linear path was the entirety of XIII Disc 1. With the exception of a blob before getting back on the line.
Nope. Also Midgar serves the purpose of both a town and a field/dungeon, but does so correctly. Towns are meant to be a change of pace and play differently from the rest of the game, usually providing places to advance your party, talk to NPCs, shop around and all that. XIII is still just the same in towns as it is in fields, they provide no temporary change in pace or gameplay direction.
decoyplatypus
Member
I do think the proportion of interesting things to do (or hear from NPCs) vs. time needed to fully explore city was lower in FFXII than in previous FF games. Part of that may just be the transition to fully 3D environments and FFXII's attempt to make "to scale" cities. The result was often doors that went nowhere and NPCs who had no dialogue at all. FFXII also had the shops and interesting NPCs you'd expect, but it took more running around and pressing X to find them. I think KH (with Traverse Town) and DQ8 did a better job of translating the traditional jRPG town into 3D.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Towns are meant to be whatever the game designers want them to be, heh. I'm not anti-town by any means, it's just their absence doesn't really affect much when their value is so shallow - at least in these games. I'll take Dragon Age towns though..or Amalur. Or, of course, Rabanastre.
FFXII did have some neat ideas. If Versus expands on the overworld concept of FFXII, I'll be happy. That was my favorite part along with Yoshida's character designs. I'll take Yoshida's art over Nomura's any day.
Really, I think Versus is doing right by going the action route. I don't think FF can retain its worldwide appeal if it stayed completely turn-based.
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