MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
So apparently it is unacceptable to you that someone likes FF13?
I ask the inverse.
I like XIII. It's everything afterwards that makes me hate the saga. Except for the GILGAMESH part.
So apparently it is unacceptable to you that someone likes FF13?
You criticize, you hate.
FF13 fan logic.
"It's good because I say so"
Who else will SE haters have to fixate on???
Maybe if SE made a good game there would not be a need for people to be so critical. ?_?
They made a good game. 2 in fact. It's called Type 0 and Bravely Default.
Sometimes I wonder if FF13 supporters will be the only ones happy when her story is finished and her time is over. Who else will SE haters have to fixate on???
Dissidia too, plus Let Us Cling Together.
Handheld Square are pretty beast.
That may be your opinion but from how I see it Aqua has a vastly superior range of emotion to that of Lightning. This not only helps her character but makes her relatable. It also helps with the whole 1 dimensional character and the "monotone" voice that you said Aqua had. (Lol if Aqua is monotone what does that make lightning).
Lets put cutscenes from the end of both XIII and BBS and let's compare. Obviously spoilers ahead:
Aqua
Lightning
Your interpretation is simply overanalyzing her. I didn't find her that different from start to finish.
I read your post but it does not convince me, her acting differently in a few scenarios does not mean she evolved her personality.
They are not facts as much as your analysis of her behaviour.
They made a good game. 2 in fact. It's called Type 0 and Bravely Default.
I tried to present and support why I like lightning by using direct evidence from the game.I didn't overanalyze its all there directly in the game. Lightning does change and evolve greatly.You don't want to see it.
Yes, yes, we see how she is flat, boring and underdeveloped.As quickly as I can :
Lightning:
Beginning of XIII : Apprehensive , Hasty , Regretful , Tense, Angry(Upon fighting Fal'cie)
Mid game: (...) She wants to cut him off but he helps her fight her Odin so she sees that she has to help.
She opens up to him about how she shut down serah and how she hates snow.He blames snow for the death of his mother so lightning tells him he is wrong.They go to palumpolum to meet his father.She tasks snow with protecting hope and tells hope to work with snow.They reconcile because of her.
She meets fang , confronts her then realises her own mistakes.she could have protected serah so it wasn't really fang's fault.She sees how Fang wants to protect vanille and feels closer to her.She APOLOGIZES to snow for being unfair to him the whole time.(Bed room scene)
She also helps fang fight bahamut and hope fight Alexander.She helps rescue vanille and sazh.Lightning is now well integrated into the group.Willing to fight for everyone.
End game : (...)
Do you see how lightning is flat , boring and undeveloped ?
Yes, yes, we see how she is flat, boring and underdeveloped.
First, let me point out that all the initial-game attributes you have pointed out revolve around her angry attitude. There's nothing behind that. That's about as much personality as Cloud shows in the first 10 minutes of FFVII. But there's a difference between Lightning and Cloud. By the time you reach Tifa's bar, you see a completely new side of Cloud's personality, that sharply contrasts with his cold attitude, and makes him more dynamic as a character. Lightning is, for a good portion of the story, the cold, angry soldier and nothing more. This is why Lightning feels boring and flat.
Second, the change in personality you have shown is minimal. Basically, based on what you said, Lightning's entire development revolves around a bitchy character becoming slightly less bitchy. She's willing to cool off her hot head, admit her own mistakes, and be nicer to a few members of the group. That's it. It's as basic and minimal as it gets. Cloud, too, had to admit some stuff about him when Tifa confronted him about their memories, and say sorry. In the first hour of the game.
It's worth noting that Lightning barely interacts with the cast, outside of Hope and maybe Snow. Vanille is the most important character in the story, but can you tell me, what are Lightning's view, opinions and relationship with her? Sazh pretty much has to deal with Lightning's bitchy behaviour in the beginning of the game, but outside of that, what more do we see out of their relationship? How does it develops? She stopped bitching about him. That was it. In fact, for most of the cast, Lightning's relationship can be summed into this: "don't bother me, I don't have patience for you all" to "I'll barely interact with you all, and only open my mouth to make the plot move forward or to make a motivational speech".
Cloud, in a gameplay sequence worth of 15 minutes in the Tifa's bar, shows more personality when interacting with other characters than Lightning for half the game. Present Tifa, childhood Tifa, Barret and the remaining avalanche group all lead to different behaviour from Cloud. And let's not forget half an hour later, with Aeris, and then with her mother. Lightning is pretty much the "angry bitch" to anyone, with different degrees of bitchering, and as the story moves on, with lesser degrees of bitchering.
Basically you're trying to convince us that Lightning is a good character, because through the entire game, she shows as much personality as Cloud did in one hour or two. And we barely knew Cloud's personality within that hour or two. Lightning is, without a doubt, an underdeveloped character.
And then there's the fact that Lightning completely went against her ideals at the very end of the game, for no apparent reason other than the writers wanting to hastily end the story somehow. But then again FFXIII's ending makes no sense.
Yes, yes, we see how she is flat, boring and underdeveloped.
First, let me point out that all the initial-game attributes you have pointed out revolve around her angry attitude. There's nothing behind that. That's about as much personality as Cloud shows in the first 10 minutes of FFVII. But there's a difference between Lightning and Cloud. By the time you reach Tifa's bar, you see a completely new side of Cloud's personality, that sharply contrasts with his cold attitude, and makes him more dynamic as a character. Lightning is, for a good portion of the story, the cold, angry soldier and nothing more. This is why Lightning feels boring and flat.
Second, the change in personality you have shown is minimal. Basically, based on what you said, Lightning's entire development revolves around a bitchy character becoming slightly less bitchy. She's willing to cool off her hot head, admit her own mistakes, and be nicer to a few members of the group. That's it. It's as basic and minimal as it gets. Cloud, too, had to admit some stuff about him when Tifa confronted him about their memories, and say sorry. In the first hour of the game.
It's worth noting that Lightning barely interacts with the cast, outside of Hope and maybe Snow. Vanille is the most important character in the story, but can you tell me, what are Lightning's view, opinions and relationship with her? Sazh pretty much has to deal with Lightning's bitchy behaviour in the beginning of the game, but outside of that, what more do we see out of their relationship? How does it develops? She stopped bitching about him. That was it. In fact, for most of the cast, Lightning's relationship can be summed into this: "don't bother me, I don't have patience for you all" to "I'll barely interact with you all, and only open my mouth to make the plot move forward or to make a motivational speech".
Cloud, in a gameplay sequence worth of 15 minutes in the Tifa's bar, shows more personality when interacting with other characters than Lightning for half the game. Present Tifa, childhood Tifa, Barret and the remaining avalanche group all lead to different behaviour from Cloud. And let's not forget half an hour later, with Aeris, and then with her mother. Lightning is pretty much the "angry bitch" to anyone, with different degrees of bitchering, and as the story moves on, with lesser degrees of bitchering.
Basically you're trying to convince us that Lightning is a good character, because through the entire game, she shows as much personality as Cloud did in one hour or two. And we barely knew Cloud's personality within that hour or two. Lightning is, without a doubt, an underdeveloped character.
And then there's the fact that Lightning completely went against her ideals at the very end of the game, for no apparent reason other than the writers wanting to hastily end the story somehow. But then again FFXIII's ending makes no sense.
Yes, yes, we see how she is flat, boring and underdeveloped.
First, let me point out that all the initial-game attributes you have pointed out revolve around her angry attitude. There's nothing behind that. That's about as much personality as Cloud shows in the first 10 minutes of FFVII. But there's a difference between Lightning and Cloud. By the time you reach Tifa's bar, you see a completely new side of Cloud's personality, that sharply contrasts with his cold attitude, and makes him more dynamic as a character. Lightning is, for a good portion of the story, the cold, angry soldier and nothing more. This is why Lightning feels boring and flat.
Second, the change in personality you have shown is minimal. Basically, based on what you said, Lightning's entire development revolves around a bitchy character becoming slightly less bitchy. She's willing to cool off her hot head, admit her own mistakes, and be nicer to a few members of the group. That's it. It's as basic and minimal as it gets. Cloud, too, had to admit some stuff about him when Tifa confronted him about their memories, and say sorry. In the first hour of the game.
It's worth noting that Lightning barely interacts with the cast, outside of Hope and maybe Snow. Vanille is the most important character in the story, but can you tell me, what are Lightning's view, opinions and relationship with her? Sazh pretty much has to deal with Lightning's bitchy behaviour in the beginning of the game, but outside of that, what more do we see out of their relationship? How does it develops? She stopped bitching about him. That was it. In fact, for most of the cast, Lightning's relationship can be summed into this: "don't bother me, I don't have patience for you all" to "I'll barely interact with you all, and only open my mouth to make the plot move forward or to make a motivational speech".
Cloud, in a gameplay sequence worth of 15 minutes in the Tifa's bar, shows more personality when interacting with other characters than Lightning for half the game. Present Tifa, childhood Tifa, Barret and the remaining avalanche group all lead to different behaviour from Cloud. And let's not forget half an hour later, with Aeris, and then with her mother. Lightning is pretty much the "angry bitch" to anyone, with different degrees of bitchering, and as the story moves on, with lesser degrees of bitchering.
Basicallyy you're trying to convince us that Lightning is a good character, because through the entire game, she shows as much personality as Cloud did in one hour or two. And we barely knew cloud's personality within that hour or two. That makes Lightning an underdeveloped character.
And then there's the fact that Lightning completely went against her ideals at the very end of the game, for no apparent reason other than the writers wanted to end the hastily end the story somehow.
Sorry, I haven't played VII so I can't compare between lightning and cloud.
Was XIII your first FF?
I call anyone who wants SE to fail SE haters. Losing money is not going to make SE 'revert' to making classic RPGs. The market for those games, as much as i hate to say it, has dried up. Look how many quality RPGs have been released here and barely break 100k. I root for SE to survive so that future gems may be realized.
I will say this in XIII Lightning's defense. At least she is somewhat consistently angry.
That whole forced romance thing with Squall was a major ugh point for me in VIII. I miss the first half's overthinking cynical hardass who disliked being spoken about in the dreaded past tense.
To be fair, it doesn't look like they are reusing *that* many assets in LR (since it looks like a new world). Or at least from what we've seen so far. XIII-2 reused quite a bit, though.
I don't know how much money they can lose on a 1 year project with 90% re-used assets.
I call anyone who wants SE to fail SE haters. Losing money is not going to make SE 'revert' to making classic RPGs. The market for those games, as much as i hate to say it, has dried up. Look how many quality RPGs have been released here and barely break 100k. I root for SE to survive so that future gems may be realized.
I don't know how much money they can lose on a 1 year project with 90% re-used assets.
I want them to succeed very much with XIV, since they seem to have put in a mountain of work and management re-shuffling, as well as proving they are taking fan input and implementing it in the most logical way possible. Toryiama and his teams have done nothing of the sort.
I do not support what they are doing with XIII, I do want SE to survive.
Again you are holding on to the "angry bitch, emo" part like everyone else.The last scene in the game where she is unreasonably angry at all is when odin comes out to fight her.Lightning has deep interactions with Hope , snow and Fang.That being said , I do wish they did more to the group interactions in a more organic way.
Again I have explicitly stated that she drops the anger for a great portion of the game and that's not my interpretation , its there in the game.She also admits that her lashing out on everyone and fighting for no reason was a big mistake that won't do them any good. She attempts to motivate everyone sure why does that have to be bad now ?
The group sticks fairly well together by the end of the game.The only static and ridiculous character in XIII is snow.I would agree to that.The rest all have their fair share of development.Not the absolute best at all but its very much existent whether or not you(or anyone else) denies it.
Sorry, I haven't played VII so I can't compare between lightning and cloud.
Also I appreciate your thoughtful response.
I call anyone who wants SE to fail SE haters. Losing money is not going to make SE 'revert' to making classic RPGs. The market for those games, as much as i hate to say it, has dried up. Look how many quality RPGs have been released here and barely break 100k. I root for SE to survive so that future gems may be realized.
Okay but the fact is that unless LR is a mega worldwide hit, Toriyama is done with FF.
I enjoyed the XIII games for the most part, but I'm really just burnt out on everything XIII and want something else, preferably Versus.
No My first FF was IX but I didn't finish it because I lost the game.My first completed mainline FF was X.I went on to play FFIV,V,VII,IX,X,X-2,XII,XIII,XIII-2.
Sorry, I haven't played VII so I can't compare between lightning and cloud.
So which is it?
You're the only one who keeps bringing up the emo part. No one else has even uttered the word emo until now.
Sorry mistake.FFVIII.I never played VII,VI,II,III.
Heres the thing. Did XIII-2 not sell that high because fans did not want it or because the JP market crashed? Considering 13-2 is still the highest selling PS3 game since 13 speaks to me that in almost two years, titles in Japan are barely cracking 3 00k. Look at this week. SM. 4 barely makes 200k on 3DS. 3DS. What is going on with the market? A dramatic shift away from PS3 games and a movement to smart phones / cheaper games.
These two you should focus on fixing.
And how are other high profile JP games doing in the west? Exactly.
And how are other high profile JP games doing in the west? Exactly.
Heres the thing. Did XIII-2 not sell that high because fans did not want it or because the JP market crashed? Considering 13-2 is still the highest selling PS3 game since 13 speaks to me that in almost two years, titles in Japan are barely cracking 3 00k. Look at this week. SM. 4 barely makes 200k on 3DS. 3DS. What is going on with the market? A dramatic shift away from PS3 and sales.
We all know this is the last XIII game, and that they're announcing something else at E3. So why are people banging on the hate drum still? Let those that want to appreciate the game discuss the game, and wait 2 weeks for the hopeful reveal of the next one. What's done is done, and the end of your misery is in sight.
Filling every LR thread with complaining, about the exact same points ad nauseum, is just crippling any capability of discussion for those that care about the game. Yes people are mad with SE's direction but actively wrecking any thread about it, when you know a new game is coming, is just plain malice towards your fellow gaffers.
Like Metal Gear, Street Fighter and Moster Hunter? A lot better then the XIII games.
We're just really bitter at how Squeenix continues to waste their time with an inferior product. And then the Lightning fans become vocal and well that just reenergizes the haters.
It gets really annoying when the same handful of people enter a thread say they continue to hate the game and then mock people who like it. If you don't care about a game you could just not post in the thread.
Serious question : what are their western sales? Last I checked, games like MGR sold like 300k here.
It really seems that the west has turned largely away from JP games that aren't Nintendo backed
I absolutely understand this. Believe me, I do. I just fear this thread turning into the excessive vitriol that got the last thread locked, right when we were starting to have a pretty decent discussion.We're just really bitter at how Squeenix continues to waste their time with an inferior product. And then the Lightning fans become vocal and well that just reenergizes the haters.