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[CrocMother]

This is true on a fundamental level.

A society where you need to arm yourself for protection isn't a society, it's a social-darwinist warzone. Society implies protections, mutual trust, understanding, cooperation. Tell a man he needs to arm himself to be safe, you may as well be telling him to find a cave in the woods and never leave.

Many people are armed because they fear the government, much more so than other citizens.

The founding fathers didn't want a standing army but an armed populace, to take the monopoly of power away from government. That was a failure, but we still have the second amendment hanging around.

 

[Dude Abides]

This is core NRA philosophy - the solution to gun violence is more guns. This isn't some fringe idea.

 

[Amir0x]

I slept like a baby before and after I joined the NRA. If my membership ever lapses I'll sleep exactly the same, lmao.

That just means you're not a self-reflective person and refuse to be honest with yourself to do the right thing. You're responsible whether you own it or not.

It was started in New York to improve Union soldiers marksmanship during the Civil War. To shoot who? Confederate soldiers. You know...the people that wanted to keep my people in chains. Ironically gun control started to keep freed slaves from owning guns. But hey, let's not let a little thing like history make that soap box slippery. And give me a break, NRA members aren't the ones committing vast portions of gun crimes.

The NRA was founded in 1871. Civil War ended in 1865. It's in the damn logo. They simply used poor markmanship statistics from the Civil War to justify why people needed an organization to help them educate and better train with their weaponry.

And please, read this about its sordid past and then let it slowly dawn on you that you are so obsessed with your liberty to support a horrific organization that has indisputably led to the innocent deaths of thousands and undeniably supported racist gun policy for generations and whose board members still hold racist views and still push extremely dangerous legislation....

...that you allowed yourself to even be fooled into a fake history of the NRA.

This type of vitriolic nonsense is why you'll never see anything done regarding shifting gun policy (And convincing a broad amount of people) to something a tad more reasonable. You wail and moan about the NRA but to those hardliners...people like you that demagogue the issue give more to their specific cause than I ever could. Own that.

People must say the truth, whether it is hard to hear or offensive to hear.

The truth is that members of the NRA pay a membership fee. That membership fee regularly goes to support the very same hateful policies that lead to deaths like these, and support a group of board members who have said thinly veiled racist commentary on many occasions and use the money to lobby congressmen for yet more horrifically dangerous laws.

There is a 1:1 correlation. That is a fact. You actively joined an optional organization which contributes to untold pain and suffering.

Deal.with.it.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Thats vitriolic?

No, this is:

Basically if hell exists and Satan is real, he literally has reserved stadium seating for every member of the NRA.

Saying you need to be responsible? Nope. Its like some cop friends understanding that others make shit bad for them. The NRA makes shit bad for you, as a member, but instead you want to attack people for generalizing.

The reason you'll never see anything done regarding shifting gun policy, is because the NRA is strong lobby that controls our government, funded by you and others, as well as the Gun Lobby. Don't get it twisted that anything Amir0x, I, or anyone else says is what is in the way of gun control. Its literally just the NRA in the way.

As I've said before, you are a damn good poster on gaf. But the NRA issue is the only one where you're making little sense. Considering you understand the NRA's motivation to not change anything. Its just strange. As you're on point with everything else you speak about.

I'm well aware they're not really that great. I'd much rather have the NRA of the pre-1970's back. I can't and won't defend all of their policies. I'm glad there was some pushback against the Safe Act in NY as it was shit as originally implemented. I enjoy my range benefits as a member, some of the speakers, some local attempts at policy change. But to say because I'm a member I'm basically evil? You really expect me to co-sign that?

 

[Jawbreaker]

An organization that profits from gun manufacturers and receives donations from members who benefit from their lobbying has board members that want to promote gun ownership? Even using tragic events to drive home their agenda? You don't say.

It's sad that this guy has to resort to victim blaming to make some sort of point about how pushing for gun control was what "undid" the pastor and the other victims. By that logic, even if open carry or concealed carry were legal across the country, being the victim of a shooting would be partly your fault for not being armed or not owning a gun. You would be at fault if you didn't allow arms into your church or place of business if a tragic event such as this unfolded. Some people will say anything to promote their views.

 

[AstroNut325]

Nope, sorry, this is just nonsense people who can't do the difficult thing tell themselves so they can sleep better at night.

The organization was started as a organization that was hugely influential in laws that wanted to keep blacks away from guns; its board members continually pushes racist, hateful and extremely dangerous ideology and uses funds it gets from NRA members to do the same. Enacting legislation that has literally resulted in the innocent deaths of untold thousands.

You're responsible too. Own it.

It's the same thing for institutional racism. You may not be individually able to change the system, but if you are aware of how it works and you do not write your congressmen, protest when able, and speak out against your government for the shit it helps create, you are partially responsible for that system. Trying to detach yourself is cowardly nonsense.

Agreed with this. Supporting the NRA in any form is reprehensible. Especially after Sandy Hook. Each and every member deserves blame.

 

[Randolph Freelander]

Someone find Mammoth a more reasonable gun owner advocacy group and maybe we can get past this. I think the NRA is deplorable, but I am sure that many of its members are well intentioned. Let's just get them to the right place.

 

[ChamplooJones]

How the hell could someone say shit like this and then feel good about themselves?

 

[wiggleb0t]

I recall the previous school shooting with some 7-9 people in the states & the concept of having teachers armed could have prevented the issue :s
America needs to ditch 3rd world gun legislation. What a complete joke.
"Greatest nation in the world... To kill black fellas"

 

[Savitar]

Reading that after what happens, I won't lie. I just want to unload on the guy with a fury of punches. Yeah, not exactly civil I know. But considering such shit heads are the reason things are going down the drain and why these things happen one gets quite tired of all this.

 

[commedieu]

No, this is:

Basically if hell exists and Satan is real, he literally has reserved stadium seating for every member of the NRA.




I'm well aware they're not really that great. I'd much rather have the NRA of the pre-1970's back. I can't and won't defend all of their policies. I'm glad there was some pushback against the Safe Act in NY as it was shit as originally implemented. I enjoy my range benefits as a member, some of the speakers, some local attempts at policy change. But to say because I'm a member I'm basically evil? You really expect me to co-sign that?

If you're well aware they aren't that great, then you understand the attitudes towards the NRA aren't exactly directed at gentlemen such as yourself. You're not the standard, not by a long shot, for various reasons.

You're trying to make the hyperbolic evil statement a sticking point, but I'm sorry, who cares that you got called evil for financially supporting the NRA? The NRA pulls off some heinous shit in the names of you, and other members. Evil, if you wanted to use it, could fully 100% apply to the bullshit from the NRA. Someone calling NRA supporters evil isn't the same as someone calling you, Mammoth Jones, the spawn of satan. Even then, are religious insults really killing your soul enough to be pissed off enough to debate about this? All things considered that just happened. Whats the value in that? Again, we all know that not every NRA supporter is insane, but we do know that all NRA supporters...

support the NRA.

They are the problem, not you. The NRA is a problem for America, currently. They have no intention to protect lives, or reduce deaths. Just to promote gun sales. I see nothing wrong with people having issues with those that support the NRA, due to those specific reasons. Again, this isn't a political party. Its a gun club you choose to participate in for sweet discounts. But instead of noting it, you want to act as if you're personally being attacked here, and that some how that means that not only do you have to defend yourself, but the rest of the group as well.

This man is saying the its the guys fault the massacre happened. That is some evil shit to say, is it fucking not? How'd he get into his position? How does he maintain his position and platform? With your money.

edit;

Maybe if you're super christian... thats the only way I'd see you taking a hyperbolic comment to heart in need of defending the gun lobby over. If thats the case, I get where the sensitivity comes from. So, that makes sense.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

That just means you're not a self-reflective person and refuse to be honest with yourself to do the right thing. You're responsible whether you own it or not.

So now you're capable of making blanket statements about a person because they belong to the NRA. I think making assumptions about people in general isn't a good thing. But that's just me.

The NRA was founded in 1871. Civil War ended in 1865. It's in the damn logo. They simply used poor markmanship statistics from the Civil War to justify why people needed an organization to help them educate and better train with their weaponry.

And please, read this about its sordid past and then let it slowly dawn on you that you are so obsessed with your liberty to support a horrific organization that has indisputably led to the innocent deaths of thousands and undeniably supported racist gun policy for generations and whose board members still hold racist views and still push extremely dangerous legislation....

...that you allowed yourself to even be fooled into a fake history of the NRA.

Not really fooled just citing it off the top of my head. I knew they were formed back during the civil war era and marksmanship training was the purpose. But now the marksmanship training was an excuse? You spout of about the racist gun control of the past ignoring the fact that it's still utilized as a means of racist policy to. this. day. Where do you think modern gun control is tightest? Wherever Black people are.

People must say the truth, whether it is hard to hear or offensive to hear.

If your truth is that I belong in hell for being in the NRA let's just agree to disagree and by that I mean you're wrong. And rude, lol.

The truth is that members of the NRA pay a membership fee. That membership fee regularly goes to support the very same hateful policies that lead to deaths like these, and support a group of board members who have said thinly veiled racist commentary on many occasions and use the money to lobby congressmen for yet more horrifically dangerous laws.

The NRA didn't walk into that Church and open fire. Give me a fucking break. A demented racist did. He owns that. Not me. Kick rocks with that nonsense, lmao. Plenty of racists permeate every layer of American life. If you think they only in the NRA...I got some bad news for you son....

They in the Republicans. And best believe they in the Democrats.

You actively joined an optional organization which contributes to untold pain and suffering.

Deal.with.it.

I can deal with you assuming that. But claiming people are evil for being members is emotional nonsense. And once again I'll say you're far more benefit to those that want to keep shit exactly the same than my 35$ is.

 

[Irnbru]

The lengths people go to defending an organization that promotes a thing that kills people and the proliferation of said tool never ceases to amaze me. In the wake of a board member saying just these words after a massacre. I bet nobody on the board of members who represent those who are part of them are batting an eye either.

 

[Noshino]

Nothing new, just as the NRA's lack of action will be.

Flack, sure. I'll take some flack. I'm used to it. Tell me I'll burn in hell? That's just childish emotional nonsense. Void of reason. Just emotional drivel.

Thats exactly what love for guns and support for the NRA is....yet you continue to do so

 

[Fenderputty]

But to say because I'm a member I'm basically evil? You really expect me to co-sign that?

You're surprised people associate you and other members with the organization you're apart of? The NRA is fucking terrible. If you don't like the association or what the organization stands for why are you a member?

 

[BertramCooper]

The founding fathers didn't want a standing army but an armed populace, to take the monopoly of power away from government. That was a failure, but we still have the second amendment hanging around.

Ehh, I'd say that's a bit debatable.

The right to bear arms was carried over from English common law, and while sure, some early U.S. statesmen, specifically Anti-Federalists, did want the government to fear insurrection, it's hard to believe that the early U.S. government as a whole wanted to be dealing with the threat of Shays-style rebellions on a regular basis.

 

[commedieu]

You're surprised people associate you and other members with the organization you're apart of? The NRA is fucking terrible. If you don't like the association or what the organization stands for why are you a member?

Pretty much, COME ON MAMMOTH!


Lets start a new club! Hell, even I'll buy a gun! We can both get shot by police, but at least we will be together

Edit:


We can call it the Rumblers

 

[Irnbru]

Pretty much, COME ON MAMMOTH!

But them range bennies tho

 

[Amir0x]

I can deal with you assuming that. But claiming people are evil for being members is emotional nonsense. And once again I'll say you're far more benefit to those that want to keep shit exactly the same than my 35$ is.

Most of your points are the same circular nonsense utilized to try to absolve yourself from any responsibility for your actions. It is literally the same exact thing racists do to try to abstract themselves from the system of racism that exists, only you do it for guns.

If you pay a membership fee to an Mormon organization that, say, uses some of the fee to feeds the poor and simultaneously actively lobbies their national and state government to promote and pass hateful legislation against LGBT individuals, you're responsible for that.

If you pay a membership fee to an organization that regularly promotes racist ideology/positions and successfully promotes legislation that has unarguably led to the death of thousands - we have statistics to back it up - as well as blocking legislation that could save thousands more (even the simplest, logical legislation of the kind we saw discussed after Sandy Hook) then you are responsible.

If you drove a person to the scene of a crime and they killed a person, you are partially responsible even if you stayed in the car and didn't pull the trigger your damn self. This is like basic stuff Mammoth, and it's truly sad that you allow yourself to be so utterly fooled in this way because you're obsessed with guns.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

I get that you disagree, but show me where his statement is racist.

Claiming that this is anything less than a racially motivated hatecrime is pretty fucking racist, IMO. The shooter himself stated that he wanted to kill blacks and incite a race war.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

No, this is:


If you're well aware they aren't that great, then you understand the attitudes towards the NRA aren't exactly directed at gentlemen such as yourself. You're not the standard, not by a long shot, for various reasons.

You're trying to make the evil statement a sticking point, but I'm sorry, who cares that you got called evil for financially supporting the NRA? The NRA pulls off some heinous shit in the names of you, and other members. Evil, if you wanted to use it, could fully 100% apply to the bullshit from the NRA. Someone calling NRA supporters evil isn't the same as someone calling you, Mammoth Jones, the spawn of satan. Even then, are religious insults really killing your soul enough to be pissed off enough to debate about this? All things considered that just happened. Whats the value in that? Again, we all know that not every NRA supporter is insane, but we do know that all NRA supporters...

support the NRA.

They are the problem, not you. The NRA is a problem for America, currently. They have no intention to protect lives, or reduce deaths. Just to promote gun sales. I see nothing wrong with people having issues with those that support the NRA, due to those specific reasons. Again, this isn't a political party. Its a gun club you choose to participate in for sweet discounts. But instead of noting it, you want to act as if you're personally being attacked here, and that some how that means that not only do you have to defend yourself, but the rest of the group as well.

Do I really feel personally attacked? Fuck no. I'm sitting here running some laundry with Witcher 3 paused (This werewolf is kicking my ass).

I guess I just have some high-minded ideals about being able to have a discourse with people that you may vehemently disagree with without resorting to such emotional blanket rhetoric.

I don't see the NRA as a problem. I don't see the existence of guns as the problem. I see the violence that people choose to do with them as the problem. Maybe that's what makes me the problem. I dunno. But that's honestly, honestly how I see it.

But change is slow. And it starts with each of us. Id rather be part of the discussion because I believe the NRA is putting themselves more and more in the corner of irrelevancy by taking such hardline stances. It's like boy who cried wolf. Eventually people gonna stop listening. Even politicians and then they ain't gonna have a seat at the table to help craft something reasonable. Christ I wish I was in charge. It'd probably implode via mass exodus when I start talking about gun safes.

Anyways, I think I'm done here. As I veered this way off course. Sorry about that, GAF. Glad to be a punching bag on this issue with ya Commedieu, as always lmao.

Pretty much, COME ON MAMMOTH!


Lets start a new club! Hell, even I'll buy a gun! We can both get shot by police, but at least we will be together

Edit:


We can call it the Rumblers

Shit, I would honestly take you up on that offer, LMAO.

 

[Link]

Wow, you mean a former member of the NRA board expressed a view on a discussion board for pro-gun activists that is unpopular with any sane, rational person.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Fenderputty]

Pretty much, COME ON MAMMOTH!


Lets start a new club! Hell, even I'll buy a gun! We can both get shot by police, but at least we will be together

I already own a gun. I fucking can't stand the NRA. Because of the NRA and the message they push I have to defend myself and my ownership while trying not to sound like a crazed loon. All gun owners in the US are affected by the shitty NRA even if they're not members. Fuck the NRA.

 

[Stinkles]

Do I really feel personally attacked? Fuck no. I'm sitting here running some laundry with Witcher 3 paused (This werewolf is kicking my ass).

I guess I just have some high-minded ideals about being able to have a discourse with people that you may vehemently disagree with without resorting to such emotional blanket rhetoric.

I don't see the NRA as a problem. I don't see the existence of guns as the problem. I see the violence that people choose to do with them as the problem. Maybe that's what makes me the problem. I dunno. But that's honestly, honestly how I see it.

But change is slow. And it starts with each of us. Id rather be part of the discussion because I believe the NRA is putting themselves more and more in the corner of irrelevancy by taking such hardline stances. It's like boy who cried wolf. Eventually people gonna stop listening. Even politicians and then they ain't gonna have a seat at the table to help craft something reasonable. Christ I wish I was in charge. It'd probably implode via mass exodus when I start talking about gun safes.

Anyways, I think I'm done here. As I veered this way off course. Sorry about that, GAF. Glad to be a punching bag on this issue with ya Commedieu, as always lmao.

Thanks for keeping your head. You're way more reasonable than many. But change should be driven by members

 

[commedieu]

Do I really feel personally attacked? Fuck no. I'm sitting here running some laundry with Witcher 3 paused (This werewolf is kicking my ass).

I guess I just have some high-minded ideals about being able to have a discourse with people that you may vehemently disagree with without resorting to such emotional blanket rhetoric.

I don't see the NRA as a problem. I don't see the existence of guns as the problem. I see the violence that people choose to do with them as the problem. Maybe that's what makes me the problem. I dunno. But that's honestly, honestly how I see it.

But change is slow. And it starts with each of us. Id rather be part of the discussion because I believe the NRA is putting themselves more and more in the corner of irrelevancy by taking such hardline stances. It's like boy who cried wolf. Eventually people gonna stop listening. Even politicians and then they ain't gonna have a seat at the table to help craft something reasonable. Christ I wish I was in charge. It'd probably implode via mass exodus when I start talking about gun safes.

Anyways, I think I'm done here. As I veered this way off course. Sorry about that, GAF. Glad to be a punching bag on this issue with ya Commedieu, as always lmao.



Shit, I would honestly take you up on that offer, LMAO.

Till next time then! Always enjoy it. As I said, you're such a good person, clearly.. this NRA thing though! Man. And I'll drop it.. its been ages, and we always end up at the same place. lol.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Ehh, I'd say that's a bit debatable.

The right to bear arms was carried over from English common law, and while sure, some early U.S. statesmen, specifically Anti-Federalists, did want the government to fear insurrection, it's hard to believe that the early U.S. government as a whole wanted to be dealing with the threat of Shays-style rebellions on a regular basis.

they didn't. they simply wanted the military power of the country to be derived from the collective military power of the localities. to not end up like a British Empire. They never wanted the layman to be empowered with arms for their own goals.

 

[NullPointer]

I think the NRA is deplorable, but I am sure that many of its members are well intentioned. Let's just get them to the right place.

This is reasonable. Didn't the NRA even go against the wishes of the majority of its own members after Sandy Hook and kill absolutely any attempts to expand background checks for gun buyers?

Edit: Yep. The GAF thread on it, and the article referenced.

 

[esms]

As always

to Mammoth.

Tangentially related: Where are the reasonable gun clubs? I only know a few off the top of my head, but they say crazy shit a lot. So, what's the alternative? If you want to politically support the Second Amendment, but don't want to be associated with crazies, what's the go-to organization?

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Most of your points are the same circular nonsense utilized to try to absolve yourself from any responsibility for your actions. It is literally the same exact thing racists do to try to abstract themselves from the system of racism that exists, only you do it for guns.

If you pay a membership fee to an Mormon organization that, say, uses some of the fee to feeds the poor and simultaneously actively lobbies their national and state government to promote and pass hateful legislation against LGBT individuals, you're responsible for that.

If you pay a membership fee to an organization that regularly promotes racist ideology/positions and successfully promotes legislation that has unarguably led to the death of thousands - we have statistics to back it up - as well as blocking legislation that could save thousands more (even the simplest, logical legislation of the king we saw after Sandy Hook) then you are responsible.

If you drove a person to the scene of a crime and they killed a person, you are partially responsible even if you stayed in the car and didn't pull the trigger your damn self. This is like basic stuff Mammoth, and it's truly sad that you allow yourself to be so utterly fooled in this way because you're obsessed with guns.

To me it's the same as any organization in that I don't feel a need to align myself 100% with it in order to utilize it. I can vehemently disagree with a lot of NRA policy but still be a member for reason I explained before.

It's not an obsession with gun as much as it's for range discounts. All I can say is NRA ain't breaking into my car or home. And I don't view them as the problem despite the fact that you do.

Post-Sandy Hook legislation was fucked the moment an AWB was attempted. Driving a person to the scene of the crime? Sure. Being in the fucking automobile manufacturer union? No.

 

[Amir0x]

To me it's the same as any organization in that I don't feel a need to align myself 100% with it in order to utilize it. I can vehemently disagree with a lot of NRA policy but still be a member for reason I explained before.

It's not an obsession with gun as much as it's for range discounts. All I can say is NRA ain't breaking into my car or home. And I don't view them as the problem despite the fact that you do.

Post-Sandy Hook legislation was fucked the moment an AWB was attempted. Driving a person to the scene of the crime? Sure. Being in the fucking automobile manufacturer union? No.

I want to emphasize one simple point here, because it's actually worse than I'm saying and I don't even think you realize it.

What you are actually saying here is that because you want discounts, you're willing to actively support an organization which does things which actually hurt real human beings. Think about what that means.

To put it more starkly,

"I don't believe in everything the KKK does, but I sure do love the discounts they give me at Joe's Tavern!"

 

[LosDaddie]

Expected response.

The gun control debate is over in the USA. Has been for a long time. Go ahead and get frustrated, but that's the sad reality.

 

[Fenderputty]

To me it's the same as any organization in that I don't feel a need to align myself 100% with it in order to utilize it. I can vehemently disagree with a lot of NRA policy but still be a member for reason I explained before.

It's not an obsession with gun as much as it's for range discounts. All I can say is NRA ain't breaking into my car or home. And I don't view them as the problem despite the fact that you do.

Post-Sandy Hook legislation was fucked the moment an AWB was attempted. Driving a person to the scene of the crime? Sure. Being in the fucking automobile manufacturer union? No.

No. The money you give them goes to the funding of positions vehemently disagree with. For what? Some benefits at the range. You're gonna have to come up with a lot more good that the NRA does to avoid the associations with the bad shit they do.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

I want to emphasize one simple point here, because it's actually worse than I'm saying and I don't even think you realize it.

What you are actually saying here is that because you want discounts, you're willing to actively support an organization which does things which actually hurt real human beings. Think about what that means.

To put it more starkly,

"I don't believe in everything the KKK does, but I sure do love the discounts they give me at Joe's Tavern!"

That analogy only holds if you believe the NRA in 2015 is equivalent to the KKK. Now, feel free to call me Clayton Bigsby but let time I checked NRA members at the range didn't toss rope around my neck. Maybe they think I'm "one of the good ones".

I already told you I don't view the NRA as the evil organization that you do. They block shit politically which will eventually backfire. But I don't concede for a single minute they cause gun crime. Guns were here before the NRA, they'll be here long after they faded into irrelevancy. And that's even with tight control on them.

No. The money you give them goes to the funding of positions vehemently disagree with. For what? Some benefits at the range. You're gonna have to come up with a lot more good that the NRA does to avoid the associations with the bad shit they do.

I don't mind the association. I'm used to it. Not used to the rhetoric that I'd be burning in hell but I already went over that. But keep on trunkin'

 

[Derekloffin]

Yeah, sure thing mister NRA member sir. Let's see how that works out for the black community when they are seen with something even resembling a gun... hell, even when they don't have a gun.

You know, hell, I'm all for this. Let's just start handling out firearms to the black community for their own protection. I'm sure that will work wonderfully and we won't have massive outcries for gun control. Then again, maybe we will and we can make this racism thing work for the better of society for a change. Win Win I say.

 

[Man God]

Superman wouldn't have died if he had a gun.

Superman got guns right after he died! Coincidence? I think not.

 

[Fenderputty]

I don't mind the association. I'm used to it. Not used to the rhetoric that I'd be burning in hell but I already went over that. But keep on trunkin'

If you don't mind being associated with an organization that blames massacres on the victims, all the power to you.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

How dare you associate me with the activities and principles of an organization I support!

 

[Amir0x]

That analogy only holds if you believe the NRA in 2015 is equivalent to the KKK. Now, feel free to call me Clayton Bigsby but let time I checked NRA members at the range didn't toss rope around my neck. Maybe they think I'm "one of the good ones".

I already told you I don't view the NRA as the evil organization that you do. They block shit politically which will eventually backfire. But I don't concede for a single minute they cause gun crime. Guns were here before the NRA, they'll be here long after they faded into irrelevancy. And that's even with tight control on them.

We have statistics from a billion countries that show demonstrably that strict gun control laws lead to massively less gun violence, and that lax gun laws lead to much more. There's no real argument against it, the data is crystal clear. You're confusing your desire to own a gun no matter what with the reality of what your freedom is actually doing.

The fact that the NRA has fought tooth and nail against every form of gun legislation imaginable has led to the death of brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, sons and daughters. We can even put aside that most of its leading board members are racists far right nutbags or even that most of its history has been populated by pushing racist gun laws.

If I pass a law that says it's not technically illegal to kill a black man, is it the law at all responsible when a black man gets killed, or is it only the fault of the man who does the killing?

 

[minor effort]

This is core NRA philosophy - the solution to gun violence is more guns. This isn't some fringe idea.

Exactly. This is American gun culture. This right here. The fear, the distrust, and sheer hatred these people carry is just pitiful.

 

[wiggleb0t]

I want to emphasize one simple point here, because it's actually worse than I'm saying and I don't even think you realize it.

What you are actually saying here is that because you want discounts, you're willing to actively support an organization which does things which actually hurt real human beings. Think about what that means.

To put it more starkly,

"I don't believe in everything the KKK does, but I sure do love the discounts they give me at Joe's Tavern!"

Lets not be hypocritical. Don't you buy heroin & any/other drugs? Do you think that's not killing, harming, enslaving poor villages & millions of other slaves of the drug trade around the world?

 

[Amir0x]

Lets not be hypocritical. Don't you buy heroin & any/other drugs? Do you think that's not killing, harming, enslaving poor villages & millions of other slaves of the drug trade around the world?

Nope, I don't. And when I did years ago, I took responsibility for my actions and got clean.

That's called owning up to it and being a man.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Lets not be hypocritical. Don't you buy heroin & any/other drugs? Do you think that's not killing, harming, enslaving poor villages & millions of other slaves of the drug trade around the world?

Really man?

 

[Bodacious]

Well all this guilt thru association in this thread has me convinced - after seeing how Hillary took money from the mysoginistic Saudis, anyone who votes for her is pure fuckin' evil.

 

[commedieu]

Well all this guilt thru association in this thread has me convinced - after seeing how Hillary took money from the mysoginistic Saudis, anyone who votes for her is pure fuckin' evil.

Who have you voted for, as there is blood on every politicians hands? But, shockingly, thats not really the discussion.

You do understand, that isn't the point, right? No one is saying Mammoth is guilty for killing people, but that the NRA is a lobby for gun manufacturers, and his money supports their undermining of our government.

All too easy.

 

[Bodacious]

You do understand, that isn't the point, right? No one is saying Mammoth is guilty for killing people, but that the NRA is a lobby for gun manufacturers, and his money supports their undermining of our government.

All too easy.

There are a number of replies just in the last couple pages, and in reply to Mammoth's posts that both directly and implicitly attribute responsibility to Mammoth personally and all NRA members generally.

I don't agree with what this NRA guy said, but it's nothing new, and it isn't "news." As a politician, the pastor voted against concealed carry, which deprives people of self-defense. But that doesn't make the pastor responsible for Roof shooting people in his church. Being an NRA member doesn't either. The guilty person is the one who illegally used a gun to murder people.

 

[Fenderputty]

Well all this guilt thru association in this thread has me convinced - after seeing how Hillary took money from the mysoginistic Saudis, anyone who votes for her is pure fuckin' evil.

Did you just try and compare voting for a politician in a first past the post voting system to willfully are not joining a gun club?

Lol what a joke

 

[richiek]

Jon Stewart is right. The most depressing thing about this is that the government will do nothing to prevent further mass shootings.

 

[Bodacious]

Did you just try and compare voting for a politician in a first past the post voting system to willfully are not joining a gun club?

Lol what a joke

It wasn't a serious comparison. It was mockery.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Gun worshiping nutjobs say that darnedest things.

 

[Fenderputty]

It wasn't a serious comparison. It was mockery.

I understand why you made the comparison